Converting FAT to NTFS

Q

QuickHare

If I was to use the CONVERT command to convert a FAT32 partition to NTFS, would
it make an attempt to move files from the 3Gb mark to fit in the MFT, or would
it fit it wherever possible? And would it choose the first available location
which it fits into contiguously?

I did try to look this up in Google, but there were no answers on the web or in
newsgroups.

QuickHare
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

No, it simply 'converts'. You should perform the following maintenance
prior to converting, then after converting:

Description of the Disk Cleanup Tool in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310312&Product=winxp

How to Perform Disk Error Checking in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;315265&Product=winxp

HOW TO: Analyze and Defragment a Disk in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;305781&Product=winxp

4 Ways to Speed Up Your Computer's Performance
http://www.microsoft.com/atwork/getstarted/speed.mspx


CONVERTING FAT32 to NTFS
in Windows XP
(by Alex Nichol, MS-MVP)
http://aumha.org/win5/a/ntfscvt.htm

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| If I was to use the CONVERT command to convert a FAT32 partition to NTFS, would
| it make an attempt to move files from the 3Gb mark to fit in the MFT, or would
| it fit it wherever possible? And would it choose the first available location
| which it fits into contiguously?
|
| I did try to look this up in Google, but there were no answers on the web or in
| newsgroups.
|
| QuickHare
 
Q

QuickHare

Thanks. I did do all that, but Disk Defragmenter left a few "holes" which I fear
will be used to store a (fragmented) MFT after conversion. I did run defrag more
than once (about three times) to ensure it cleaned it as well as it could.

I have read and re-read the info given by Alex Nichol, but it still does not
explain how to achieve a contiguous file about 3Gb into the drive. Are there any
(free?) utilities out there to provide the space for me and insert a file
suitable for an MFT?

QuickHare
 
C

Carey Frisch [MVP]

PerfectDisk Defragmentation Tutorial
http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/whitepapers/defrag_tutorial.pdf

PerfectDisk Whitepapers
http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/wp.cfm

Diskeeper FAQ
http://support.diskeeper.com/support/diskeeperfaqs.aspx?Page=5&Subpage=2&cust=1&RId=1&CId=1&SId=5

<snip>

It is a common misconception that a defragmented disk should look very neat and tidy in the analysis screen, with solid blue bars
all the way across the screen (representing fragmentation-free files) and the rest white space (representing consolidated space).

Clearly, the speed of the disk, meaning how fast you can access the data on it, is more important than the prettiness of the display
or the consolidation of all the free space into one place. Free space consolidation might be important if you have to create one
gigantic contiguous file, but it has no effect on performance. So Diskeeper uses algorithms that achieve the highest speed from your
drive regardless of the arrangement of the free spaces on the drive and on the screen. Diskeeper does so without wasting time on
excessive consolidation of free space. We simply go for the fastest possible file access times and then stop.

Even so, you might ask why we don't continue and rearrange the files further to get a neat display? The answer is, "Because it takes
computer power to do so." It would be wrong to consume more of your computer's performance than we give back. So Diskeeper
defragments until the disk is in top shape Performance-wise and then stops. Any further work is a waste of your computer resources.

<end of snip>

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User
Microsoft Newsgroups

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| Thanks. I did do all that, but Disk Defragmenter left a few "holes" which I fear
| will be used to store a (fragmented) MFT after conversion. I did run defrag more
| than once (about three times) to ensure it cleaned it as well as it could.
|
| I have read and re-read the info given by Alex Nichol, but it still does not
| explain how to achieve a contiguous file about 3Gb into the drive. Are there any
| (free?) utilities out there to provide the space for me and insert a file
| suitable for an MFT?
|
| QuickHare
 
Q

QuickHare

After reading a bit more about PerfectDisk, it seems it does defragment the MFT.
I know the post-defragmentation picture does not need to be "neat" and all
bunched up in blue at the start of the drive. I was more concerned about the
gaps I had being used to store the MFT when I do the conversion, thus instantly
fragmenting the MFT, which is a bad thing.

However, it seems I can convert the drive into NTFS, then install and run
PerfectDisk's 30 day trial to defragment and move the MFT to the optimal place
on the drive (3Gb into the drive) as I wanted. I'm happy to continue with
Windows XP's in-built defragger, so I will be using PerfectDisk only a few times
to ensure the drive is properly up to speed during my 30 day trial period, then
I can deinstall it continue with XP's own.

Thanks for the references, they helped me to find the pages which helped me
decide on my plan of action.

QuickHare
 
D

dannysdailys

Why do you think you want to convert in the first place? NTFS i
about to be an orphan anyway? Hello?
 
D

djbearb

What if you have less then 10% freespapce. I have DK 9.0 and the FAQ -
How much free space does DK need? says:

"We recommend a bare minimum of 20% for both defragmentation and
general system performance. If you don't have that much free space
you will probably not get much performance improvement from
defragmentation"

Will PD work with as little as 5% free space as advertised?
 
G

Gerry Cornell

Defragments drives with as little as 5% free space

Less wasted disk space than with typical deframenters, which require up
to 20% of the drive to be free.

Extract from this link:
http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/perfectdisk2k_features.cfm

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Using invalid email address

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please tell the newsgroup how any
suggested solution worked for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
R

Richard Urban [MVP]

What do you plan to do when the MFT gets refragmented - as it is bound to
happen again? Suggest you "buy" PerfectDisk and keep it on your computer to
use as your primary defragmenting program.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from: George Ankner
"If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!"
 
Q

QuickHare

From all of the information I have seen (including the Alex Nichols link, which
is considered the first place to look and is quite key), the MFT zone which is
allocated by the NTFS and moved with PerfectDisk is a special zone in which
files are not stored unless space is limited, which it is not as yet. As this is
the case, once defragmented and moved the once, it should not get fragmented
again unless I practically run out of space.

Nice sales pitch, though.

QuickHare
 
Q

QuickHare

Because I use Windows XP. It does not support the new file system run by Vista.
Why didn't all those with Windows 95 and 98 change over to NTFS when NT was
released? Same argument.

Think, please.

QuickHare


PS Horrible, negative remarks like yours wil be met with similar responses.
 
R

Richard Urban [MVP]

I use PerfectDisk exclusively. I find that at least once a month I have to
do a boot time defrag because the MFT, the MFT Zone or the metadata is
fragmented. This "will" occur if you add/remove a lot of programs. If your
system is stable, and you plan to not add any more programs for testing -
and then deletion, you likely will not fragment these three areas.


--
Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User

Quote from: George Ankner
"If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!"
 
G

Gerry Cornell

You were not able to use NTFS with Windows 95 and Windows 98. To use NTFS users would have had to purchase a new operating system!

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Using invalid email address

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please tell the newsgroup how any
suggested solution worked for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Q

QuickHare

Exactly. The point of the reply was to show I want to upgrade my filesystem yo
the best WinXP can support. I would like to make use of compression, sparse
files and just ensure the system is secure. FAT32 does not offer these features,
so I wish to convert my drive. I don't care that Vista will use another file
system as it is Windows XP I am using, and just like Win9x, I won't be able to
use the new filesystem (unless Microsoft release an update to WinXP, but then it
won't in order to push you to the new OS).

QuickHare


You were not able to use NTFS with Windows 95 and Windows 98. To use NTFS users
would have had to purchase a new operating system!

--


Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FCA

Using invalid email address

Stourport, Worcs, England
Enquire, plan and execute.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please tell the newsgroup how any
suggested solution worked for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
G

Greg Hayes/Raxco Software

Standing on my soap box...

This little bit from the Diskeeper FAQ is quite interesting. They say that
free space consolidation has no affect on performance. However, if you look
at the Diskeeper online help under Reference Information/Theory of
Operation, it states the following:

"As used in reference to Windows operating systems, disk fragmentation means
two things:
- a condition in which pieces of individual files on a disk volume are not
contiguous, but rather are broken up and scattered around the volume; and
- a condition in which the free space on a volume consists of little pieces
of space here and there rather than a few large free spaces.

The effects of excessive fragmentation are twofold as well:
- file access takes longer because a file must be collected in pieces here
and there, requiring several disk accesses instead of just one; and
- file creations take longer because space for the file must be allocated in
little pieces here and there instead of just one contiguous allocation.

In designing Diskeeper, the following goals were established:
- The product must be completely safe to use.
- It must improve Windows system performance . It is not designed to make
the disk look "pretty" - it is designed to improve disk performance and, as
a result, overall system performance.
- It should process live disks without interfering with user access to
files.
- It should run without operator intervention .
- It must defragment all possible files and consolidate free space into the
smallest possible number of large spaces."

The key things to note are they define fragmentation as also including free
space fragmentation and that free space fragmentation also causes problems.
They also state that a defragmenter must consolidate free space into the
smallest possible number of large spaces. They also state that
defragmenting must improve Windows performance. In addition, Diskeeper also
provides a Free Space Consolidation defragmentation method - further
indicating that they consider free space consolidation at least of minor
importance. However, on the other hand they try to minimize the importance
of free space consolidation. Why is that? Does anybody remember prior
versions of Diskeeper that included statistics on free space fragmentation?
Since Diskeeper 7 Second Edition (I believe), Diskeeper now longer provides
this information. Why is that when they obviously place a little bit of
importance on it?

There is a serious dis-connect here. One one hand they say that free space
consolidation is important and provide a method to try to improve free space
consolidation but on the other hand they say that it doesn't help to improve
performance.

Speaking as somebody who works for a defrag vendor, I agree that the
purpose of defragmenting isn't to make the drive look "pretty". The purpose
is to improve performance to the best possible. Simply defragmenting files
improves only read performance. However, how many Windows systems are
simply read I/O? Not many. Consolidating free space improves write
performance - meaning that total disk performance is improved - not just 1
part.

In part, you can measure the impact of free space consolidation using
something like WinBench - which (among other things) includes a benchmark
suite to measures drive performance. The nice thing about WinBench is that
it wasn't written by a defrag vendor :) There are instances where drive
performance as measured by WinBench can actually decrease after
defragmentation - even though all files were defragmented. The reduction in
drive performance can be attributed to lack of free space consolidation -
which forces the file system to work harder to create new files - meaning
that performance slows down.

I'll get off my soap box now :)

- Greg/Raxco Software
Microsoft MVP - Windows File System

Disclaimer: I work for Raxco Software, the maker of PerfectDisk - a
commercial defrag utility, as a systems engineer in the support department.

Want to email me? Delete ntloader.


Carey Frisch said:
neat and tidy in the analysis screen, with solid blue bars
all the way across the screen (representing fragmentation-free files) and
the rest white space (representing consolidated space).
Clearly, the speed of the disk, meaning how fast you can access the data
on it, is more important than the prettiness of the display
or the consolidation of all the free space into one place. Free space
consolidation might be important if you have to create one
gigantic contiguous file, but it has no effect on performance. So
Diskeeper uses algorithms that achieve the highest speed from your
drive regardless of the arrangement of the free spaces on the drive and on
the screen. Diskeeper does so without wasting time on
excessive consolidation of free space. We simply go for the fastest
possible file access times and then stop.
Even so, you might ask why we don't continue and rearrange the files
further to get a neat display? The answer is, "Because it takes
computer power to do so." It would be wrong to consume more of your
computer's performance than we give back. So Diskeeper
defragments until the disk is in top shape Performance-wise and then
stops. Any further work is a waste of your computer resources.
 

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