Computer wont power up sometimes, runs fine

[dzmcm]

My computer has had an issue where it wont power up once it's shut
down. It starts for a fraction of a second--all the lights flash
on--but then stops completely. If I try to start again once it flashes,
I get nothing. If I switch off the powersupply for around 30 seconds
and then switch it back on, the same thing happens. A short flash of
light, then nothing theirafter.

I can usualy get it running within a day or two, just trying every now
and then. When it starts, it runs fine. I can keep it running for days
at a time. I can restart just fine. I don't like to keep it on when
it's not needed, so i usualy shut it off at night (unless I really need
it the next morning). I've used both stock and overclocked/overvoltage
settings with no difference. I've removed all but the bare essentials
(mobo w/1 stick of ram (either one or the other) and vidcard) and still
no luck. I've tested the powersupply by hooking up a few devices and
connecting pins 13-14 with a wire and it works fine.

It appears to be a motherboard problem. I've tried to contact MSI, but
I can't fax and there is a problem with their support request forum
(making them usless). I can only email their RMA address (duno how far
i'll get there, i'm still waiting for a reply). I first contacted OCZ
about the powersupply and recieved excellent support (though the power
supply doesn't appear to be at fault).

My system is:
MSI K8N Neo4 (nforce 4 standard) -- lates available BIOS
Geforce 6800 PCIe
AMD Athlon 64 3200 -- excelent overclocker btw
1x512mb Kingston HyperX DDR333 (2-2-2-5)
1x512mb Patriot DDR333 (2-2-2-5)
OCZ Modstream 520 powersupply
1xWesternDigital 40gb
1xMaxtor 80gb

I would really appreciate any advice or insight I can get. Especially
since MSI is completely usless in the matter. I don't want to have to
replace my motherboard (which is less than a year old).

 

[Dave]

My computer has had an issue where it wont power up once it's shut
down. It starts for a fraction of a second--all the lights flash
on--but then stops completely. If I try to start again once it flashes,
I get nothing. If I switch off the powersupply for around 30 seconds
and then switch it back on, the same thing happens. A short flash of
light, then nothing theirafter.

I can usualy get it running within a day or two, just trying every now
and then. When it starts, it runs fine. I can keep it running for days
at a time. I can restart just fine. I don't like to keep it on when
it's not needed, so i usualy shut it off at night (unless I really need
it the next morning). I've used both stock and overclocked/overvoltage
settings with no difference. I've removed all but the bare essentials
(mobo w/1 stick of ram (either one or the other) and vidcard) and still
no luck. I've tested the powersupply by hooking up a few devices and
connecting pins 13-14 with a wire and it works fine.

It appears to be a motherboard problem.

Not to me it doesn't. I'd be shocked if replacing your power supply doesn't
solve this problem. The system draws most current at start-up. When cold,
the power supply is least able to supply this extra current. After warmed
up for a while, the power supply might be able to just supply enough current
to keep the system running. So startup problems are a classic (bad power
supply) symptom. -Dave

 

[dzmcm]

Not to me it doesn't. I'd be shocked if replacing your power supply doesn't

solve this problem. The system draws most current at start-up. When cold,
the power supply is least able to supply this extra current. After warmed
up for a while, the power supply might be able to just supply enough current
to keep the system running. So startup problems are a classic (bad power
supply) symptom. -Dave

Which is why I contacted OCZ support first. However, i'm not running a
monster rig. My videocard requires no additional power source. And I
have tested with minimal components. This is a 500w powersuply and a
great quality. It isn't some lightweight overated piece of crap that
manufacturers include with cheap cases. And it runs fine for days under
heavy load with no stability problems whatsoever.

I'm not dismissing the possibility that it could be the powersupply.
It's just unlikly.

My theory is that there is a sensor that has gone bad (maybe a temp
sensor on the mobo) that is causing it to shut down for safety reasons.
It may even be my cpu fan sensor. I realy don't know though. I've tried
to find more information concerning the interaction between the
powersupply and motherboard with little success. I've also tried to
find more in depth info on anything and everything inside a
powersupply. If anyone knows some good links I'd greatly apreciate it.
Afterall there are few pleasures greater than learning.

In any case, I do know that all my fans DO spin. Including the chipset
fan hidden behind the videocard. I know that cpu fan failure will
shutdown my system according to my bios settings (assuming I have said
setting enabled). But there is no failure.

I'd like to test with a spare power supply, but I don't have any 20+4
pin spares (only 20 pin). And, like I said, I can get the powersupply
running, just not when it's triggered by the motherboard. I've even
tested the power switch on the case.

I would gladly purchase a new motherboard or powersupply (I don't mind
having spares). But my employment status just doesn't permit me to.

 

[Rod Speed]

Which is why I contacted OCZ support first. However, i'm not running
a monster rig. My videocard requires no additional power source. And
I have tested with minimal components. This is a 500w powersuply
and a great quality. It isn't some lightweight overated piece of crap
that manufacturers include with cheap cases.

Sure, but that doesnt exclude the possibility of a fault rather
than lack of capacity. A fault that gets it wrong at startup time,
decides that there is too much load on the supply when there isnt.

And it runs fine for days under heavy load
with no stability problems whatsoever.

Sure, but all that means is that the fault is in the overcurrent detection.

I'm not dismissing the possibility that it could be the powersupply.
It's just unlikly.

It is however even less likely that a motherboard
would produce those particular symptoms, particularly
taking days to boot again when it wont boot.

You sure its days and not just an hour or so unplugged ?

My theory is that there is a sensor that has gone bad (maybe a temp
sensor on the mobo) that is causing it to shut down for safety reasons.

That wouldnt produce that set of symptoms, only being a problem
at boot time, and taking days to boot again once it wont boot.

It may even be my cpu fan sensor.

Very unlikely given that it should be at the lowest temp at boot time.

I realy don't know though.

Yep, you clearly dont understand fault finding very well.

I've tried to find more information concerning the interaction
between the powersupply and motherboard with little success.

Yeah, it isnt very clearly spelt out, you really need to understand
how the power supply over current protection works.

I've also tried to find more in depth info on anything and everything
inside a powersupply. If anyone knows some good links I'd greatly
apreciate it. Afterall there are few pleasures greater than learning.

I'm not aware of any good source on that.

In any case, I do know that all my fans DO spin.
Including the chipset fan hidden behind the videocard.

All that means is that the power supply does come up initially and then
shuts down. Most likely because its decided that the load on power
supply is too high, and it does that due to a fault in the power supply.

I know that cpu fan failure will shutdown my system according
to my bios settings (assuming I have said setting enabled).

Yes, but the cpu temp should be at it lowest when it shuts down.

And wont take days to cool off either.

But there is no failure.

I'd like to test with a spare power supply,

Yeah, thats the only really viable test.

but I don't have any 20+4 pin spares (only 20 pin).

One approach is to buy another which you can return if it
doesnt fix the problem. Not ideal tho if its still under warranty.

If you bought it complete, didnt assemble it yourself,
you could just get the supplier to try a different power
supply, if its still under warranty.

And, like I said, I can get the powersupply running,
just not when it's triggered by the motherboard.

That doesnt eliminate the obvious possibility of
a fault in the over current detection circuitry.

I've even tested the power switch on the case.

A faulty power switch wouldnt see it power up for a very short time.

I would gladly purchase a new motherboard or powersupply (I don't mind
having spares). But my employment status just doesn't permit me to.

Guess you could just leave it on all the time when it does boot.

Could be a complete pain in the arse if you get many power glitches tho.


The short story is that its very unlikely for a faulty
motherboard to produce those particular symptoms.

Even bad caps are unlikely to with the motherboard.

 

[dzmcm]

It may even be my cpu fan sensor.

Very unlikely given that it should be at the lowest temp at boot time.

I said nothing of the temerature sensor. My motherboard will detect the
FAN on the cpu. That is why I mentioned the setting to shut down if the
cpu fan fails. If that sensor is screwed, then it will shut off as a
fail-safe. I don't know what the default setting is. So untill I can
get into my bios again, I cant rule out this possibility.

I know my processor is fine tempurature wise. It won't go over 40C
unless it's under heavy load. Usualy it camps around 32-38C (which is
nice considering it's stock cooling).

I'm still investigating the possibility of the powersupply being the
issue. I may pull it out and try my luck on my old computer (which is
now my roommates). It's just a huge pain to get it out of the case (and
a bigger pain to get it back in).

I would think that his system is every bit as power hungry as mine
(probobly more so). But it uses only a 20pin main connector. I don't
know how much difference those additional 4 pins make.

I may have too much faith in OCZ's high standard. But I do know that
both ABIT and MSI where known to use inferior capacitors on their
motherboards in the past, resulting in preasure buildup and eventual
leakage. Though my former ABIT board is running just fine as I type.
And I've carefully inspected every capacitor on my current MSI board
and found nothing more than a barely perceptible layer of dust atop the
ones just next to the processor. I just dread going through the whole
RMA process when I could give it a day or two and be back up and
running. Untill I have some concrete evidince, I'm not willing to send
either mobo or powersuppy in for repair.

I don't know if you've noticed, but despite my obvious access to
computers and internet, I'm completely disfunctional without my main
rig. My art, music, and reading matterial-- both informative and casual
fiction--not to mention games are all in my own little binary world.
It's been my drug since I was ten years old and I can't quit cold
turkey. Not even for a week. No amount of chocolate can compensate.
Believe me i've tried. It's expensive, and unhealthy. And eventualy
all the excess sugar acts as a catalyst for depression (and my coping
mechanism wont start up right now). It's a vicious cycle that can only
end when my powersupply and/or motherboard decides to start working
again.

ARG. But thank you for the help. I'll try testing my powersupply on the
other system and post back with the results.

 

[dzmcm]

Having now tested the powersupply on an alternate system, It seemes
that MSI's motherboard is at fault. It gave me no problems running on
my ABIT board.

Now I just need to find a way to get in contact with MSI tech support.
Ironicly, thats the hard part. I almost wish it was the powersupply.
OCZ has excellent tech support that doesn't require you fill out you
life story on a broken form just to get a contact email. My last option
is a long distance phone number. In my experience, people on the other
end of a phone tend to be either on the other end of the earth,
completely usless or both.

Thanks for the "help" in discovering the cause of my system not
booting. I appreciate that you respect my theories as a competent
system builder. I'm glad you don't undermine my opinions or suggest
they are in error because of your superior knowledge. I also hold in
high regard the one who can interpret fan sensors as being related to
temperature (clearly he/she knows how to read and process words at the
same time). It sure would suck to have to say that you simply don't
know and can't offer any help. If that where the case then there would
be no reason to post at all.

 

[Rod Speed]

I said nothing of the temerature sensor.

I never said you did.

My motherboard will detect the FAN on the cpu.

You dont get a shutdown like you are seeing if it cant see the FAN.

That is why I mentioned the setting to shut down if the cpu fan
fails. If that sensor is screwed, then it will shut off as a fail-safe.

Doesnt explain why it only sees that at boot time.

I don't know what the default setting is. So untill I can
get into my bios again, I cant rule out this possibility.

Sure, but its still a lot less likely than a faulty power supply.

I know my processor is fine tempurature wise. It won't go
over 40C unless it's under heavy load. Usualy it camps
around 32-38C (which is nice considering it's stock cooling).

Yes I meant that is unlikely to be getting the cpu temp wrong due to
a fault and shutting down the motherboard that quickly on power on.

I'm still investigating the possibility of the powersupply being
the issue. I may pull it out and try my luck on my old computer
(which is now my roommates). It's just a huge pain to get it
out of the case (and a bigger pain to get it back in).

I would think that his system is every bit as power hungry as mine
(probobly more so). But it uses only a 20pin main connector. I
don't know how much difference those additional 4 pins make.

They're extra 5V lines.

I may have too much faith in OCZ's high standard.

Any electronic device can fail.

But I do know that both ABIT and MSI where known to
use inferior capacitors on their motherboards in the past,
resulting in preasure buildup and eventual leakage.

Yes, but you can check for that visually and that doesnt normally
produce the particular set of symptoms you are seeing.

Though my former ABIT board is running just fine as I type.
And I've carefully inspected every capacitor on my current
MSI board and found nothing more than a barely perceptible
layer of dust atop the ones just next to the processor.

Then its unlikely to be a cap failure.

I just dread going through the whole RMA process when
I could give it a day or two and be back up and running.
Untill I have some concrete evidince,

The only viable evidence will come from a power supply swap.

I'm not willing to send either mobo or powersuppy in for repair.

I don't know if you've noticed, but despite my obvious access to computers
and internet, I'm completely disfunctional without my main rig. My art, music,
and reading matterial-- both informative and casual fiction--not to mention
games are all in my own little binary world.

Yeah, I wouldnt dream of relying on just one system ever again.

It's been my drug since I was ten years old and I can't quit cold turkey.
Not even for a week. No amount of chocolate can compensate. Believe
me i've tried. It's expensive, and unhealthy. And eventualy all the excess
sugar acts as a catalyst for depression (and my coping mechanism wont
start up right now). It's a vicious cycle that can only end when my
powersupply and/or motherboard decides to start working again.

ARG. But thank you for the help. I'll try testing my powersupply
on the other system and post back with the results.

I'd RMA the power supply if it was mine.

 

[Rod Speed]

Having now tested the powersupply on an alternate
system, It seemes that MSI's motherboard is at fault.
It gave me no problems running on my ABIT board.

That doesnt prove much, the fault may well
be sensitive to a particular motherboard.

Now I just need to find a way to get in contact with MSI tech support.
Ironicly, thats the hard part. I almost wish it was the powersupply.
OCZ has excellent tech support that doesn't require you fill out you
life story on a broken form just to get a contact email. My last
option is a long distance phone number. In my experience, people on
the other end of a phone tend to be either on the other end of the
earth, completely usless or both.

Thanks for the "help" in discovering the cause of my system not
booting. I appreciate that you respect my theories as a competent
system builder. I'm glad you don't undermine my opinions or suggest
they are in error because of your superior knowledge. I also hold in
high regard the one who can interpret fan sensors as being related to
temperature (clearly he/she knows how to read and process words at the
same time). It sure would suck to have to say that you simply don't
know and can't offer any help. If that where the case then there would
be no reason to post at all.

I can see now why Dave gave up on you, child.

Gunna be hilarious when you RMA the motherboard
and it makes no difference to the fault.

 

[Bob M]

My computer has had an issue where it wont power up once it's shut
down. It starts for a fraction of a second--all the lights flash
on--but then stops completely. If I try to start again once it flashes,
I get nothing. If I switch off the powersupply for around 30 seconds
and then switch it back on, the same thing happens. A short flash of
light, then nothing theirafter.

I can usualy get it running within a day or two, just trying every now
and then. When it starts, it runs fine. I can keep it running for days
at a time. I can restart just fine. I don't like to keep it on when
it's not needed, so i usualy shut it off at night (unless I really need
it the next morning). I've used both stock and overclocked/overvoltage
settings with no difference. I've removed all but the bare essentials
(mobo w/1 stick of ram (either one or the other) and vidcard) and still
no luck. I've tested the powersupply by hooking up a few devices and
connecting pins 13-14 with a wire and it works fine.

It appears to be a motherboard problem. I've tried to contact MSI, but
I can't fax and there is a problem with their support request forum
(making them usless). I can only email their RMA address (duno how far
i'll get there, i'm still waiting for a reply). I first contacted OCZ
about the powersupply and recieved excellent support (though the power
supply doesn't appear to be at fault).

My system is:
MSI K8N Neo4 (nforce 4 standard) -- lates available BIOS
Geforce 6800 PCIe
AMD Athlon 64 3200 -- excelent overclocker btw
1x512mb Kingston HyperX DDR333 (2-2-2-5)
1x512mb Patriot DDR333 (2-2-2-5)
OCZ Modstream 520 powersupply
1xWesternDigital 40gb
1xMaxtor 80gb

I would really appreciate any advice or insight I can get. Especially
since MSI is completely usless in the matter. I don't want to have to
replace my motherboard (which is less than a year old).

Replace the PSU or keep trying to prove the people here wrong. It's
your computer. If it was mine I'd want it working properly.

Bob

 

[David Maynard]

My computer has had an issue where it wont power up once it's shut
down. It starts for a fraction of a second--all the lights flash
on--but then stops completely. If I try to start again once it flashes,
I get nothing. If I switch off the powersupply for around 30 seconds
and then switch it back on, the same thing happens. A short flash of
light, then nothing theirafter.

That is the classic symptom of a PSU over current crowbar. PSU senses over
current and immediately clamps the output rails, which is why you get the
light flash/fan 'bump', and the clamp won't let go (so 'on' switch does
nothing) till it's unplugged long enough for the capacitors to discharge.

I can usualy get it running within a day or two, just trying every now
and then. When it starts, it runs fine. I can keep it running for days
at a time. I can restart just fine. I don't like to keep it on when
it's not needed, so i usualy shut it off at night (unless I really need
it the next morning). I've used both stock and overclocked/overvoltage
settings with no difference. I've removed all but the bare essentials
(mobo w/1 stick of ram (either one or the other) and vidcard) and still
no luck.

Did you consider the hard drives part of the 'essentials'?

I've tested the powersupply by hooking up a few devices and
connecting pins 13-14 with a wire and it works fine.

Connecting a 'few' devices to the power supply won't test the potential
problem because the potential problem is it shutting down from a
significant *load*.

It appears to be a motherboard problem.

That is unlikely. Possible, I suppose, but it doesn't fit the symptoms.

I've tried to contact MSI, but
I can't fax and there is a problem with their support request forum
(making them usless). I can only email their RMA address (duno how far
i'll get there, i'm still waiting for a reply). I first contacted OCZ
about the powersupply and recieved excellent support (though the power
supply doesn't appear to be at fault).

My system is:
MSI K8N Neo4 (nforce 4 standard) -- lates available BIOS
Geforce 6800 PCIe
AMD Athlon 64 3200 -- excelent overclocker btw
1x512mb Kingston HyperX DDR333 (2-2-2-5)
1x512mb Patriot DDR333 (2-2-2-5)
OCZ Modstream 520 powersupply
1xWesternDigital 40gb
1xMaxtor 80gb

I would really appreciate any advice or insight I can get. Especially
since MSI is completely usless in the matter. I don't want to have to
replace my motherboard (which is less than a year old).

Try removing everything but just the motherboard/processor and see if it
reliably powers up the motherboard/processor alone. If it does then it
isn't the motherboard.

 

[Rod Speed]

(e-mail address removed) wrote

That is the classic symptom of a PSU over current crowbar.

There is no crowbar in modern PC PSUs.

PSU senses over current and immediately clamps the output rails,

Shuts down the regulator, actually.

which is why you get the light flash/fan 'bump', and the clamp won't let go (so 'on'
switch does nothing) till it's unplugged long enough for the capacitors to discharge.

Most PSUs will start fine when the bad load is removed.

Did you consider the hard drives part of the 'essentials'?

Connecting a 'few' devices to the power supply won't test the potential problem because
the potential problem is it shutting down from a significant *load*.

Indeed, and even powering a different system doesnt trigger
what is very likely a PSU fault, bad over current sensing.

That is unlikely. Possible, I suppose, but it doesn't fit the symptoms.

Indeed, but even everyone without exception telling him that
hasnt helped. Gunna be hilarious to see if he's got the balls to
fess up that the RMA of the motherboard made no difference.

Try removing everything but just the motherboard/processor and see if it reliably powers
up the motherboard/processor alone. If it does then it isn't the motherboard.

Thats overstating it, there is a small possibility that the motherboard
has a fault that sees a too high initial load. Unlikely tho and swapping
the PSU is the only really viable test.

 

[David Maynard]

There is no crowbar in modern PC PSUs.

I was speaking in the same terms Intel uses, as in

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/emea/eng/244768.htm

"RISKS of using wrong power supply... This may cause the power supply to
“crowbar”:

As for "no crowbar," you may want to inform these folks they don't know
what's in their PSUs.

http://www.voxtechnologies.com/Power_Supply/jet-280an.htm

"the build-in crowbar circuit will automatically shut down the outputs to
avoid damaging the external circuits."

Shuts down the regulator, actually.

That's one way but not the only way.

Most PSUs will start fine when the bad load is removed.

Depends on the fault and which recovery mechanism the vendor chooses to
implement. For over-voltage ATX specs require it be latched off. For
over-current it may recover on removal of the load or use latch protection.

Not to mention I didn't make any statements about "most PSUs." I said the
symptoms he described were consistent ('classic' because the original ATX
specs allowed only a latch) with an over-current latch-up needing a power
cycle to clear, and they are.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

I was speaking in the same terms Intel uses, as in
http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/emea/eng/244768.htm

More fool you.

"RISKS of using wrong power supply... This may cause the power supply to “crowbar”:

Terminally stupid terminology with PC power supplys.

As for "no crowbar," you may want to inform these folks they don't know what's in their
PSUs.

"the build-in crowbar circuit will automatically shut down the outputs to avoid damaging
the external circuits."

Bet there is no crowbar, just more pig ignorance, like yours.

That's one way but not the only way.

Yes, but I bet his power supply has no crowbar.

Depends on the fault and which recovery mechanism the vendor chooses to implement.

Yes, and like I said, most will start fine when the overload is removed.

For over-voltage ATX specs require it be latched off.

He aint got over voltage.

For over-current it may recover on removal of the load or use latch protection.

Most do in fact recover on load removal.

Not to mention I didn't make any statements about "most PSUs." I said the symptoms he
described were consistent ('classic' because the original ATX specs allowed only a
latch) with an over-current latch-up needing a power cycle to clear, and they are.

Pity the original ATX specs said nothing about any crowbar.

 

[David Maynard]

More fool you.




Terminally stupid terminology with PC power supplys.




Bet there is no crowbar, just more pig ignorance, like yours.

Ah, yes. The mark of a true B.S. artist: deny, deny, deny and, if that
doesn't work, throw an insult.

Yes, but I bet his power supply has no crowbar.




Yes, and like I said, most will start fine when the overload is removed.

His didn't, which was the topic and not your 'most PSUs' B.S.

He aint got over voltage.

Didn't say he did.

Most do in fact recover on load removal.

His didn't, which was the topic and not your 'most PSUs' B.S.

Pity the original ATX specs said nothing about any crowbar.

One thing is for sure, you've proved yourself to be a genuine B.S. pro and,
as I said before, that's not in my line.

 

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed wrote

Ah, yes. The mark of a true B.S. artist: deny, deny, deny and, if that doesn't work,
throw an insult.

Have fun pointing out any crowbar in
http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html
http://www.dtk.com.tw/tech/circuitp.html#3038

His didn't, which was the topic

You STILL havent established that there is any crowbar in his PSU.

and not your 'most PSUs' B.S.

We'll see.

Didn't say he did.

Then that bit of that ATX specs is completely irrelevant.

His didn't, which was the topic

You STILL havent established that there is any crowbar in his PSU.

and not your 'most PSUs' B.S.

We'll see.

One thing is for sure, you've proved yourself to be a genuine B.S. pro

You in spades, child.

and, as I said before, that's not in my line.

It clearly is, you're just another pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

SHOW ME THE CROWBAR IN
http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html
http://www.dtk.com.tw/tech/circuitp.html#3038

 

[David Maynard]

Have fun pointing out any crowbar in
http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html
http://www.dtk.com.tw/tech/circuitp.html#3038

The issue at hand was you claiming the folks describing their own PSU were
'pig ignorant'. What some *other* PSU has in it is irrelevant.

You STILL havent established that there is any crowbar in his PSU.

I said his symptoms were consistent with a crowbar type of function,
regardless of the particulars of how it's implemented, and it is.

We'll see.

He has one PSU, not 'most PSUs'.

Then that bit of that ATX specs is completely irrelevant.

No, because you claimed 'most PSUs' will automatically recover upon removal
of a fault and that section shows otherwise.

The ATX spec also lists latch-up as one acceptable over-current response
(used to be the only one listed) and I've got PSUs that do precisely that.

I never took a survey so I don't know what method "most PSUs" use, that'sa
B.S. artist kind of a claim, but his symptoms are, as I said, consistent
with a crowbar type, latch-up, function.

You STILL havent established that there is any crowbar in his PSU.

I didn't say there was. What I said was the symptoms he described were
consistent with such a function. It's also listed as a proper function in
the ATX specification and I've got PSUs that do the same thing.

We'll see.

He doesn't have 'most PSUs', he has a particular one, and I'll take a
theory that's consistent with the symptoms over a "most PSUs" claim that
ignores them, any day.

You in spades, child.

Au contraire. Remember, by your own assessment I couldn't 'B.S.' my way out
of a paper bag.

It clearly is, you're just another pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

SHOW ME THE CROWBAR IN
http://www.pavouk.comp.cz/hw/en_atxps.html
http://www.dtk.com.tw/tech/circuitp.html#3038

Whether those two PSUs have a crowbar or not is completely irrelevant as
they aren't his PSU, I didn't make any 'most PSUs' claim (much less 'all'),
nor did I even claim his did. What I said was the symptoms he described
were consistent with a crowbar function, and they are.

Now, if you want to do something productive then find the schematic for a
OCZ Modstream 520 PSU, because he doesn't have "most PSUs," so we can look
for what might be causing his symptoms but, until then, the B.S. award
remains in your hands.