Cloned hdd not bootable

[bxf]

I have IMAGE BACKUPs of my C drive, created using Ghost 2003. I
regularly use these successfuly to revert my PC to a known state. These
backup images were created in DOS, without specifying any GHOST
switches, and are in the form of bootable DVDs which contain all
necessary software plus the backup image itself.

I wanted to replace my laptop's 40GB disk with a 60GB 7200 RPM disk. I
inserted the new disk into a USB2 enclosure and then I used Partition
Magic to create the desired partition strucure. Each of the new
partitions was formatted, etc., and I then copied the files from each
of the partitions on the old disk to the corresponding partition on the
new disk - except the C partition.

I shut down the system and inserted the new disk into the laptop. I
then performed my usual GHOST restore under DOS, using one of my
bootable DVDs. This worked fine, as expected.

Now I tried to boot, but no luck. I don't recall the message, but its
meaning was not obvious to me. Still, I assumed there was something not
quite right with the boot sector, or something like that. Or perhaps
the C partition on the new disk was not marked ACTIVE.

I suppose I could have put my old disk back and check a few things, but
I was feeling lazy so I just did a quick Windows install, THEN I reran
my restore, and everything is fine.

My assumption is that the backups I create are missing something. Are
there any switches I should be using with GHOST when I create the
backup image, so that ALL boot information is included?

Thanks for any response.

Bill

 

[Peter]

My assumption is that the backups I create are missing something. Are

there any switches I should be using with GHOST when I create the
backup image, so that ALL boot information is included?

Yes. Perform a disk image as oppose to partition image.

 

[bxf]

Thanks, Peter, but one reason I do things the way I do is that it
enables me to create a single bootable DVD which I can use any time,
anywhere, to restore my C drive. It would take more than a single DVD
to contain the entire disk. I backup the partitions other than C using
different methods.

 

[Peter]

Thanks, Peter, but one reason I do things the way I do is that it

enables me to create a single bootable DVD which I can use any time,
anywhere, to restore my C drive. It would take more than a single DVD
to contain the entire disk. I backup the partitions other than C using
different methods.

Then, you should start with disk image of your original system before
other partitions got populated.
You should restore that image to your clone first also.

 

[bxf]

That's an idea, but I'm afraid it would not satisfy all objectives.

I perform my backups using a set of DVD+RW disks, which I rotate. I
create a new backup after I've made some significant changes and I feel
I am satisfied with these changes. So I am not really in a position to
do as you suggest, except, of course, at the very beginning of the
entire process after a Windows install.

I am typing these messages from work, where web access is very lmited
(google being an exception), so I cannot look up Ghost line switches
now. However, I do recall seeing something in the past about options
like "imageall", "imageboot" (I'm not sure I have these right). The
problem was that I didn't fully understand the descriptions of these
options, so I don't know if they would fulfil the requirement.

 

[Peter]

I perform my backups using a set of DVD+RW disks, which I rotate. I

create a new backup after I've made some significant changes and I feel
I am satisfied with these changes. So I am not really in a position to
do as you suggest, except, of course, at the very beginning of the
entire process after a Windows install.

I thought that you wanted to transfer all info from old disk to
a new one? That is a one time thing. You could use Ghost to
change partition sizes during that process.

After that is done, you could do your C: partition imaging and
restoring without much trouble, as many times as you want.

I am typing these messages from work, where web access is very lmited
(google being an exception), so I cannot look up Ghost line switches
now. However, I do recall seeing something in the past about options
like "imageall", "imageboot" (I'm not sure I have these right). The
problem was that I didn't fully understand the descriptions of these
options, so I don't know if they would fulfil the requirement.

Those options -IA, -IB, -ID, -IR are for sector-by-sector copy.
Not applicable in your case.

 

[bxf]

"I thought that you wanted to transfer all info from old disk to
a new one? That is a one time thing. You could use Ghost to
change partition sizes during that process."

That is already done, and working. My concern now is that I may find
myself in a situation where my drive is unuseable, or at least
unbootable, for whatever reason, and I must restore. This last
experience tells me that such a restore may not be enough to correct
all problems. Having said that, I suspect that Partition Magic may be
useable to fix such a situation, so I've created a boot CD wirh PM (and
Ghost) on it. This should enable me to make a partition Active, for
example. Still, I was wondering if Ghost had any facilities to make
this unnecessary.

"Those options -IA, -IB, -ID, -IR are for sector-by-sector copy.
Not applicable in your case."

So based on what you are saying I must conclude that there is no way to
include ALL necessary boot-related info by backing up a single
partition only.

Thanks for your input.

Bill

 

[Peter]

So based on what you are saying I must conclude that there is no way to

include ALL necessary boot-related info by backing up a single
partition only.

Yes. That is my understanding.

You could use WinXP CD to perform some recovery tasks.
Like FIXMBR or FIXBOOT.

Now is the time to test them...

 

[Eric Gisin]

Start by zeroing the new drive MBR. Put it in the laptop, and restore C from
DVD.

If it boots, put the old drive in USB enclosure and copy over other parts.

Never create partitions for Ghost, especially with Partition Mangler.

 

[Eric Gisin]

The boot code in the MBR is pretty standard. Any version will load an active
partition from the first 8GB. The partition's boot code is always restored by
Ghost.

 

[Bob]

Start by zeroing the new drive MBR. Put it in the laptop, and restore C from
DVD.

Don't listen to this top-posting moron. He's just a troll and will
screw things up for you.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
--William Shakespeare; Henry VI, Act IV, Scene II

 

[bxf]

You could use WinXP CD to perform some recovery tasks.
Like FIXMBR or FIXBOOT

I assume these are Recovery Console commands. I've never used it, but
in fact I printed some notes on this only yesterday. So yes, I can
familiarize myself with these, thank you.

Start by zeroing the new drive MBR

Don't know how to do that.

Never create partitions for Ghost, especially with Partition Mangler

Not sure what you mean. Although I had done a lot of fuming in the
process of trying to get Ghost to do what I want (create a bootable DVD
using an external drive), I feel that my recovery procedure is about as
convenient as can be - 10 minutes total and my C drive is exactly as I
want it. As for PM, well, I have in the past found myself in a "what
the f... do I do now situation" when it started to tell me something is
wrong with my partition table, but I'd always managed to get myself out
of the hole. These problems occurred with earlier versions of PM, and
I'm hoping they are gone!

 

[bxf]

The boot code in the MBR is pretty standard. Any version will load an
active
partition from the first 8GB. The partition's boot code is always
restored by
Ghost.

So should I infer from this that probably the only reason my new drive
did not boot after the restore was the fact that it was not made ACTIVE?

 

[Rod Speed]

The boot code in the MBR is pretty standard. Any
version will load an active partition from the first 8GB.
The partition's boot code is always restored by Ghost.

So should I infer from this that probably the only reason my new drive
did not boot after the restore was the fact that it was not made ACTIVE?

Its more likely that its more complicated than that. The NT/2K/XP
boot process is surprisingly complex and if you JUST restore the
bootable partition, not the entire physical drive, that there is more
involved than just not having the boot image marked active.

Its clear why you want to be able to have Ghost create a
bootable drive after say hard drive failure, and why you prefer
to not backup the entire drive onto DVDs, but why does it
matter that if you do need to restore the C partition from its
DVD on drive failure, that you need to repair the OS install
from the CD as you found works fine ? The only real downside
is that its not that fast and that you do need the OS CD.

That last seems to be a quite minor workaround that you
are unlikely to actually do because hard drive failures arent
common and it makes a lot of sense to continue to use the
separate partition per DVD approach for its convenience.

 

[Rod Speed]

I assume these are Recovery Console commands.
Yes.

I've never used it, but in fact I printed some notes on this only
yesterday. So yes, I can familiarize myself with these, thank you.

I prefer to repair the install using the option you get later
after booting the XP CD, what you have already used.

Mainly because its much easier to do, albeit takes rather longer.

Don't know how to do that.

Anything that writes zeros thru the first few tracks.

I like clearhdd for that myself.

Not sure what you mean.

Basically there is no need to create partitions manually now.

If you do need to restore from DVD now, say on a hard drive failure,
just restore the bootable partition first, to free space on the new drive,
and then restore the other partitions in sequence, still to free space.

Although I had done a lot of fuming in the process
of trying to get Ghost to do what I want (create a
bootable DVD using an external drive),

Yes, thats one big downside with Ghost 2003, thats
quite clumsy. In spades the images on the lan when
the laptop NIC isnt natively supported by Ghost.

I prefer Acronis True Image now, basically
because it makes those ops much more intuitive.

I feel that my recovery procedure is about as convenient as
can be - 10 minutes total and my C drive is exactly as I want it.

The main advantage with a more recent imager is that you
can do incremental backups which have some real advantages.

As for PM, well, I have in the past found myself in a "what
the f... do I do now situation" when it started to tell me
something is wrong with my partition table, but I'd always
managed to get myself out of the hole. These problems occurred
with earlier versions of PM, and I'm hoping they are gone!

Its still less than ideal. And has a hell of a capacity
for biting you on the bum when you least expect it.
Tho thats more of a nuisance than anything else if
you are always fully backed up before using it.

 

[bxf]

but why does it matter that if you do need to restore the C
partition from its DVD on drive failure, that you need to repair
the OS install from the CD as you found works fine ? The
only real downside is that its not that fast and that you do
need the OS CD.

That last seems to be a quite minor workaround that you
are unlikely to actually do because hard drive failures arent
common and it makes a lot of sense to continue to use the
separate partition per DVD approach for its convenience

You are absolutely correct, Rod. I must admit that I sometimes blur the
line between practical and academic objectives. I initially wondered
why the boot failure occurred, and somehow mingled that with my
already-achieved objective of having a single "save me" backup disk. I
could try to justify my intention with the claim that I travel with my
laptop and I wouldn't want to find myself in a situation from which I
cannot recover. But, as you pointed out, the XP CD will take care of
that. So in the end it comes down to wanting to confirm that the
problem was simply boot-record stuff and to understand how this stuff
works.

Never mind, I accept that there is no need to dwell on this.

Thanks for all the response.

B.

 

[Eric Gisin]

About time you confessed.

Listen to this top-posting genius. He's alway's right.

On the other hand, I'm a blithering idiot.
--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
--William Shakespeare; Henry VI, Act IV, Scene II

 

[bxf]

Basically there is no need to create partitions manually now.

If you do need to restore from DVD now, say on a hard drive failure,
just restore the bootable partition first, to free space on the new
drive,
and then restore the other partitions in sequence, still to free space

I understand. However, the backups of my other partitions were
previously simply COPYs of important files, so I did not have the means
of restoring them as partitions.


I prefer Acronis True Image now, basically
because it makes those ops much more intuitive

I tried TI, but it wouldn't burn to my DVD, for whatever reason, so I
abandoned it. Actually, I had a hell of a time trying to get Ghost to
burn, until I replaced my 2X-Rw with a 4X+RW, which Ghost is perfectly
happy to write. Drove me crazy for quite some time. TI won't write to
either disk.


Its still less than ideal. And has a hell of a capacity
for biting you on the bum when you least expect it.
Tho thats more of a nuisance than anything else if
you are always fully backed up before using it

That would be quite worrying, because, as you say, it screws you when
you least expect it. The two occasions when it almost gave me heart
attacks I did not in fact have backups (quite some time ago), so yes,
now it would not be considered catastrophic.

 

[Peter]

So should I infer from this that probably the only reason my new drive

did not boot after the restore was the fact that it was not made ACTIVE?

I'm not sure if that is "the only reason", but if you created partition
by PM (not marked active) and restored boot partition using
Ghost, to the same partition, it will be still left non-ACTIVE.

Restoring boot partition using Ghost, to empty (not partitioned)
disk, creates ACTIVE partition.

Interestingly, using WinXP Recovery Console you cannot mark
partition active (FIXBOOT or FIXMBR do not address that).

But booting from Win98SE boot floppy, you can FDISK
and mark that restored partition ACTIVE.

 

[Rod Speed]

I understand. However, the backups of my other partitions
were previously simply COPYs of important files, so I did
not have the means of restoring them as partitions.

OK, I normally image those too. Mainly because
the image is significantly smaller than the partition.

I dont copy individual files from the backup much, and when
I do need to do that the image explorer approach is fine for that.

I do some file copying for backup, but thats only a tiny subset
of the files, mostly a fancy automated system for backup of
code versions thats quite separate from the image backups
and done on a different basis. I do a backup at significant
steps in the code changes so its easy to step back when
you decide that a particular approach to the code has
some real downsides and you want to step back etc.

I tried TI, but it wouldn't burn to my DVD,
for whatever reason, so I abandoned it.

Yeah, thats its main downside, its got some real blemishes
with less than bog standard hardware, essentially because
they are attempting to support the hardware from linux with
image creation from the booted TI rescue CD.

Actually, I had a hell of a time trying to get Ghost to burn,
until I replaced my 2X-Rw with a 4X+RW, which Ghost is
perfectly happy to write. Drove me crazy for quite some
time. TI won't write to either disk.

From the rescue CD or from TI installed ? And which version
of TI, 8 is quite a bit better than previous versions, tho still with
some real downsides with specific hardware.

Its [Partition Magic] still less than ideal. And has a hell
of a capacity for biting you on the bum when you least
expect it. Tho thats more of a nuisance than anything
else ifyou are always fully backed up before using it

That would be quite worrying, because, as you
say, it screws you when you least expect it.

Yeah, I deliberately avoid using it as much as possible for that reason.

The two occasions when it almost gave me heart attacks
I did not in fact have backups (quite some time ago), so
yes, now it would not be considered catastrophic.

Yeah, I normally only adjust partition sizes when changing physical
hard drives now, and normally do that with TI now, so I dont need
the backup since the original drive is the backup. And I try to avoid
having more than one partition per drive as much as possible now anyway.