Norton Ghost 2003: Cant boot XP after creating system disk file image?


M

madunphy

Hi all,

I've installed ghost 2003 with the aim to using it as a backup system
for my system disk. My system disk has 2 patrtitions both NFTS. My
backup disk was an external NFTS drive connected through USB.

After following the tutorials, I when about creating the file image of
my disk as follows:

1) Started ghost and went about selecting the drive to ghost, the
destination (i.e thr' usb), and the location of image file on the
external disk.

2) Ghost then booted (via the floppy) into dos mode. Again followed the
instructions and selected the location of the image. The odd thing here
was that the image file already existed (small in size). I just re
selected it as my destination. Is there where it went wrong (see
below).

3) Once image created, I checked it, no problem.

4) Exited Ghost and thus returned to DOS. Took out the floppy and
rebooted.

The machine now cant find the OS. Has ghost done something to the MBR?
My Partition Magic rescue disk informs me that the partition is bad,
though while in ghost (via DOS), I can still browse around this disk
and its patrtition as if I was using that drive as a destination for an
image.

Does ghost alter a disks partition structure in order to do a image
copy? Is there anyway of getting back to the OS? My next option is to
try to retore the image, but I'm slow to try this as if this is wrong
its all completely gone. My aim was to use this backup and restore to
another disk as a trial run.

Finally my last option is just to re-install everything!!!

If anybody can help I'd very much appreciate it.

Thanks

Michael Dunphy
 
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M

Michael Kimmer

Hi all,

I've installed ghost 2003 with the aim to using it as a backup system
for my system disk. My system disk has 2 patrtitions both NFTS. My
backup disk was an external NFTS drive connected through USB.

After following the tutorials, I when about creating the file image of
my disk as follows:

1) Started ghost and went about selecting the drive to ghost, the
destination (i.e thr' usb), and the location of image file on the
external disk.

2) Ghost then booted (via the floppy) into dos mode. Again followed
the instructions and selected the location of the image. The odd
thing here was that the image file already existed (small in size). I
just re selected it as my destination. Is there where it went wrong
(see below).

3) Once image created, I checked it, no problem.

4) Exited Ghost and thus returned to DOS. Took out the floppy and
rebooted.

The machine now cant find the OS. Has ghost done something to the MBR?
My Partition Magic rescue disk informs me that the partition is bad,
though while in ghost (via DOS), I can still browse around this disk
and its patrtition as if I was using that drive as a destination for
an image.

Does ghost alter a disks partition structure in order to do a image
copy? Is there anyway of getting back to the OS? My next option is to
try to retore the image, but I'm slow to try this as if this is wrong
its all completely gone. My aim was to use this backup and restore to
another disk as a trial run.

Finally my last option is just to re-install everything!!!

If anybody can help I'd very much appreciate it.

Thanks

Michael Dunphy
Hi!

My Partition Magic rescue disk informs me that the partition is bad,
'Bad disk is caused by the Virtual Partition entry in the partition table
causing PM to believe that there is an overlapping partition (error #113)
Run PTEdit from the PQ rescue floppy #1
Please NOTE that you read the following line CAREFULLY!
Delete the entire line representing the Ghost 2003' virtual partition
(column 'Type' 0E or 04) by entering:
00 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Goto the first line representing the Windows partition
(column 'Type' 07), goto the column "Boot" and change the '00' into '80'
(Setting bootflag)

Save Changes
Reboot

Volià

--
M.f.G.
Michael Kimmer

"Ein Tag an dem Du nicht lächelst ist ein verlorener Tag"
"Eine Nacht in der Du nicht schläfst ist eine verschlafene Nacht"
 
B

Bob

I would not trust PM to tell me if there was a disk present, much less
anything about it. That is one crappy piece of s/w.
'Bad disk is caused by the Virtual Partition entry in the partition table
causing PM to believe that there is an overlapping partition (error #113)
Run PTEdit from the PQ rescue floppy #1
Please NOTE that you read the following line CAREFULLY!
Delete the entire line representing the Ghost 2003' virtual partition
(column 'Type' 0E or 04) by entering:
00 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Goto the first line representing the Windows partition
(column 'Type' 07), goto the column "Boot" and change the '00' into '80'
(Setting bootflag)
Save Changes
Reboot

If this works, great. If it doesn't, then check in your BIOS to see
how many hard disks the BIOS believes are bootable disks.

Advanced BIOS Features
Hard Disk Boot Priority

I have no idea whether your machine could boot from the USB clone, but
if it can't, and the BIOS thinks it is the primary boot disk, then you
can see why that would cause a problem.

When Ghost made a clone disk, it copied the MBR from your primary,
which included the Active bit. Now the clone looks like a bootable
disk, and if you were to replace the current primary with it, it
should boot. However, it may not boot properly from the USB port even
if it is otherwise fully bootable.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"
 
P

Peter

I would not trust PM to tell me if there was a disk present, much less
anything about it. That is one crappy piece of s/w.

He suggests to use PTEdit, not PM in general.
That is fine to me.
If this works, great. If it doesn't, then check in your BIOS to see
how many hard disks the BIOS believes are bootable disks.

I don't recall OP manipulating BIOS parameters.
I assume there are intact, so there is no need to modify anything there.
I have no idea whether your machine could boot from the USB clone, but
if it can't, and the BIOS thinks it is the primary boot disk, then you
can see why that would cause a problem.

That is irrelevant in this case.
When Ghost made a clone disk, it copied the MBR from your primary,
which included the Active bit. Now the clone looks like a bootable
disk, and if you were to replace the current primary with it, it
should boot. However, it may not boot properly from the USB port even
if it is otherwise fully bootable.

OP did not performed clone disk operation (disk to disk) but
rather a disk image operation (disk to image). Unfortunately he
got mixed up some operations. While he started operation
from windows (Ghost virtual partition created), he had floppy with
Ghost there and overwrote virtual partition content by mixing up
destination targets. That has locked partition table (modified by Ghost
for virtual partition purpose) and made system stuck there.

Using PTEdit is fine as a tool to recover his system.
 
M

madunphy

thanks michael.

In the normal usage of ghost, once I created the ghost image, and exit
the dos environment, should I just be able to reboot into XP without
messing with the partition table?

Cheers Mike
 
M

madunphy

Hi Bob,

I wasnt cloning the system disk to another disk but rather to a disk
image file on the external drive connect via USB. I doubt the machine
could boot from a usb drive but that wasnt my intention, is was just a
storage location for the image.

Thanks

Mike
 
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M

Michael Kimmer

thanks michael.

In the normal usage of ghost, once I created the ghost image, and exit
the dos environment, should I just be able to reboot into XP without
messing with the partition table?

Cheers Mike

Yes, this thing may happen when using S-ATA or SCSI (non ATA) disks.
If that's the case use either ghost -NOIDE or -FNI in the future.

--
M.f.G.
Michael Kimmer

"Ein Tag an dem Du nicht lächelst ist ein verlorener Tag"
"Eine Nacht in der Du nicht schläfst ist eine verschlafene Nacht"
 
B

Bob

Hi Bob,

I wasnt cloning the system disk to another disk but rather to a disk
image file on the external drive connect via USB. I doubt the machine
could boot from a usb drive but that wasnt my intention, is was just a
storage location for the image.

My point is that if the BIOS considers the new disk bootable it could
try to boot from it.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"
 
P

Peter

I wasnt cloning the system disk to another disk but rather to a disk
My point is that if the BIOS considers the new disk bootable it could
try to boot from it.

But OP did not change partition information on USB attached drive.
He just attempted to put a file there (unsuccessfully though).
 
M

Michael Kimmer

thanks michael.

In the normal usage of ghost, once I created the ghost image, and exit
the dos environment, should I just be able to reboot into XP without
messing with the partition table?

Cheers Mike

Do you have (a) non IDE disk(s)??
You could also run ghost -noide or ghost -fni either from the CD or from a
floppy disk.

This way a virtual partition is not created...

--
M.f.G.
Michael Kimmer

"Ein Tag an dem Du nicht lächelst ist ein verlorener Tag"
"Eine Nacht in der Du nicht schläfst ist eine verschlafene Nacht"
 
B

Bob

But OP did not change partition information on USB attached drive.
He just attempted to put a file there (unsuccessfully though).

Yes. But that does not mean the BIOS did not misinterpret the presence
of the disk.

I have a removable bay. If I put a disk in it that has an Active
partition, the BIOS will try to boot from it even though the real
primary partition has not changed in any way.

If I put a disk in the removable bay that does not have the Active
partition set, the BIOS nevertheless enters it into that table I
cited. It doesn't try to boot from it.

Now why would the BIOS put a non-bootable disk in the table called
Hard Disk Boot Priority? Makes no sense, but it does happen.

I am suggesting something for the OP to look at. I am not suggesting
that it is necessarily the solution to his problem. But as goofy as it
appears, if it is the solution, then he will have saved a lot of
effort.




--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"
 
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P

Peter

But OP did not change partition information on USB attached drive.
Yes. But that does not mean the BIOS did not misinterpret the presence
of the disk.

It does not mean the BIOS did misinterpret the presence of the disk
either. His PC BIOS might even not be able to check for USB hard
disks. It is just irrelevant in this situation.

I'm sure he tried to boot his PC with USB hard disk disconnected
(presumably without success).
 
P

Peter

You could also run ghost -noide or ghost -fni either from the CD or from a
floppy disk.

This way a virtual partition is not created...

.... and no need to install Ghost application in that PC.

But USB support in DOS environment is poor, so it might not work
well anyways.
Best for Ghost is WinPE environment (BartPE, UBCD4WIN or else)
made with WinXPSP2 and Ghost32. No more DOS troubles.
 
L

Lil' Dave

Bob said:
Yes. But that does not mean the BIOS did not misinterpret the presence
of the disk.

I have a removable bay. If I put a disk in it that has an Active
partition, the BIOS will try to boot from it even though the real
primary partition has not changed in any way.

If I put a disk in the removable bay that does not have the Active
partition set, the BIOS nevertheless enters it into that table I
cited. It doesn't try to boot from it.

Now why would the BIOS put a non-bootable disk in the table called
Hard Disk Boot Priority? Makes no sense, but it does happen.

I am suggesting something for the OP to look at. I am not suggesting
that it is necessarily the solution to his problem. But as goofy as it
appears, if it is the solution, then he will have saved a lot of
effort.




--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"

We all get your point, which is valid. But, not in this case. No OS was
copied to the USB connected hard drive (cloning).
 
B

Bob

We all get your point, which is valid. But, not in this case. No OS was
copied to the USB connected hard drive (cloning).

You are still missing the point I am trying to make. The BIOS can
misinterpret whether a disk belongs in the "Hard Disk Boot Priority"
listing. A disk does not have to have an OS present and doesn't even
need the Active bit set.

I am not claiming this is the problem. I am trying to point out that
it is something one should check as a matter of routine even if it is
not supposed to happen that way.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

"Whatever crushes individuality is despotism."
--John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty"
 
P

Peter

I am not claiming this is the problem. I am trying to point out that
it is something one should check as a matter of routine even if it is
not supposed to happen that way.

There are many other things that should be routine checked,
but to save time and space is best to comment only on items
directly related to the problem presented here.
 
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R

Rod Speed

I would not trust PM to tell me if there was
a disk present, much less anything about it.

No one with a clue would 'trust' a single word you spew.
That is one crappy piece of s/w.

You are one terminally pig ignorant redneck clown.
If this works, great. If it doesn't, then check in your BIOS to see
how many hard disks the BIOS believes are bootable disks.

Completely useless. The problem is the virtual partition that
ghost 2003 creates to do the image creation. When he didnt
actually use it and booted from the floppy instead, it didnt get
deleted at the end of the image creation as it normally would be.
Advanced BIOS Features
Hard Disk Boot Priority
I have no idea

You did manage to get that bit right.
whether your machine could boot from the USB clone,
but if it can't, and the BIOS thinks it is the primary boot
disk, then you can see why that would cause a problem.

Pity it aint the problem.
When Ghost made a clone disk, it copied the MBR
from your primary, which included the Active bit.

Not a ****ing clue with IMAGE FILES.
Now the clone

There is no 'clone', he clearly said he IMAGED
the drive, he never said he CLONED it.
looks like a bootable disk,
Nope.

and if you were to replace the current primary with it, it should boot.
Wrong.

However, it may not boot properly from the
USB port even if it is otherwise fully bootable.

Corse a USB drive with an IMAGE FILE ON IT wont boot, fool.
 
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R

Rod Speed

Yes. But that does not mean the BIOS
did not misinterpret the presence of the disk.

Corse it does. Its not going to become a bootable drive
JUST BECAUSE AN IMAGE FILE HAS BEEN WRITTEN ON IT.
I have a removable bay. If I put a disk in it that has an Active
partition, the BIOS will try to boot from it even though the real
primary partition has not changed in any way.

AND NOTHING WOULD HAVE CHANGED
THE ACTIVE BIT ON THE USB DRIVE.

And even if something did, you need a LOT MORE THAN JUST THE
ACTIVE BIT SET FOR THE BIOS TO DECIDE THAT ITS BOOTABLE.
If I put a disk in the removable bay that does not have
the Active partition set, the BIOS nevertheless enters
it into that table I cited. It doesn't try to boot from it.

Completely irrelevant to his situation.
Now why would the BIOS put a non-bootable
disk in the table called Hard Disk Boot Priority?

Basically so you can make it bootable and THEN have it booted.
Makes no sense,

Wrong. That approach allows things like OS
installers to fiddle with what's bootable and no
need the user to change the bios boot priority table.
but it does happen.

For a good reason.
I am suggesting something for the OP to look at.

Pity there is not point whatever in doing that.
I am not suggesting that it is necessarily the solution to his
problem. But as goofy as it appears, if it is the solution,

It cant be.
then he will have saved a lot of effort.

Pathetic, really.
 

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