Clone, ghost, migrate or image?

[Sensitive New Age Thug]

Hi,

The 30 GB internal hard drive in my Sony laptop (Windows XP native) has
gotten too full, especially the "C" partition. I've already moved all my
documents to the "D" partition. It's time to get a bigger hard drive.

My plan is to clone the internal hard drive to a larger 2.5 inch drive,
operated temporarily in an external enclosure, then swap the drives. I
understand this is standard procedure in this kind of situation.

After cloning, the new, larger hard drive, must be bootable, and must
contain a proper copy of my version of Windows XP. (Sony did not supply a
Windows install hard disk with the machine, and none is available. There's a
"restore" partition on the hard drive. Not much good if the drive fails.)

Additionally, I'd like to be able to use my applications without re-entering
serial numbers.

Ideally, the old, smaller drive will remain bootable and otherwise usable,
in case the new drive fails.

I've been shopping around for the right application for this job. I'm
considering Acronis Migrate Easy. Is this a good choice?

I'm confused about what I want to do, because of terminology. It seems like
this procedure is sometimes called cloning the hard disk, sometimes it's
called ghosting, sometimes it's called migrating, and sometimes it's called
making a disk image.

What is the correct terminology for the thing I want to do?

Finally, are there any gotchas I should look out for when I'm making this
change?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Andrew E.]

Clone-mirror-migrate,etc simply have the same meaning,youre duplicating the
OS to another hd or disk...XP actually has cloning software built in,it works
only with IDE hds,although SATA might adapt to it.Simply format the new hd,
go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all in the DOS window.
D: being the new hd,but if asigned diffrent letter,then use that
letter.This set up
usually works with C: being master & new as slave on same IDE chain,other
ways
might work...

 

[Og]

Please *IGNORE* Andrew E.
Andrew E. is a danger to himself and to others.
The nice folks at the insane asylum allow Andrew E.
to play on the Internet while he is undergoing his
Electro-Shock Treatments.
Steve

 

[Anna]

Hi,

The 30 GB internal hard drive in my Sony laptop (Windows XP native) has
gotten too full, especially the "C" partition. I've already moved all my
documents to the "D" partition. It's time to get a bigger hard drive.

My plan is to clone the internal hard drive to a larger 2.5 inch drive,
operated temporarily in an external enclosure, then swap the drives. I
understand this is standard procedure in this kind of situation.

After cloning, the new, larger hard drive, must be bootable, and must
contain a proper copy of my version of Windows XP. (Sony did not supply a
Windows install hard disk with the machine, and none is available. There's
a
"restore" partition on the hard drive. Not much good if the drive fails.)

Additionally, I'd like to be able to use my applications without
re-entering
serial numbers.

Ideally, the old, smaller drive will remain bootable and otherwise usable,
in case the new drive fails.

I've been shopping around for the right application for this job. I'm
considering Acronis Migrate Easy. Is this a good choice?

I'm confused about what I want to do, because of terminology. It seems
like
this procedure is sometimes called cloning the hard disk, sometimes it's
called ghosting, sometimes it's called migrating, and sometimes it's
called
making a disk image.

What is the correct terminology for the thing I want to do?

Finally, are there any gotchas I should look out for when I'm making this
change?

Thanks in advance.

Sensitive...
The basic approach you've outlined is a sensible one. In your situation it
probably would be best to undertake the disk-to-disk cloning process rather
than the disk imaging route. Without going into too many unnecessary details
at this point as to why the disk-cloning approach would be a more practical
undertaking in your situation, just understand for the moment that the
disk-cloning process is a relatively simple & straightforward procedure
whereby the entire contents of your "source" HDD, i.e., your present 30 GB
HDD, will be "cloned" to your new larger HDD, the "destination" HDD. So for
all practical purposes your new HDD will be a duplicate of your current HDD.
As such it will be bootable & functional in precisely the same manner as
your present HDD. This assumes, of course, that your present HDD boots
without incident and functions without any problems affecting the OS.

In your particular case you will be installing another larger 2 1/2"
laptop-type HDD in an external enclosure, presumably a USB external
enclosure specifically designed for 2 1/2" hard drives. So that external HDD
will be the recipient of the clone. Following the disk-cloning operation you
will uninstall your present internal HDD, remove the newly-cloned HDD from
its enclosure and install the latter drive in your laptop.

We assume you would know how to physically do these things. If you do *not*
know how to do these things, I would strongly recommend, that if possible,
you try to have someone at your side who at least has some knowledge of the
process or failing that, if you would do some research on the net via Google
about uninstalling/installing hard drives. It's not a particularly difficult
procedure but like everything else when one gets inside one's PC - and
especially a laptop such as yours - one should have some familiarity with
the "innards" of your particular machine. Hopefully a Sony technical user
manual will be available to guide you through the process.

Following the successful disk-cloning operation and after you've installed
the new HDD as your day-to-day boot drive, you might want to consider
installing your old HDD in the USB external enclosure and using that device
as your backup device, thereafter using your disk-cloning program to
*routinely* clone the contents of your internal boot HDD to the external one
so as to maintain a comprehensive backup strategy. Whether your 30 GB HDD
will be sufficient (in disk space) for this is something you will have to
decide.

Now as to the disk-cloning program...

I'm not at all familiar with the Acronis Migrate Easy program except that I
note it apparently has, for the most part, garnered good reviews. It may be
just what you need. Perhaps someone who has worked with that program will
comment on it. In any event I note Acronis has a trial version available so
maybe it's worth a shot.

The disk-cloning program we now routinely work with and which we highly
recommend is the Casper 4.0 program.

PLEASE BEAR IN MIND THAT OUR FOCUS IN DISCUSSING THIS PROGRAM IS WITH
ROUTINE DISK-CLONING OPERATIONS USED TO MAINTAIN A COMPREHENSIVE BACKUP
PROGRAM.

THE FOLLOWING IS A TRUNCATED VERSION OF POSTS THAT WE'VE MADE TO THESE MS XP
NEWSGROUPS CONCERNING A DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE PROGRAM TOGETHER WITH
STEP-BY-STEP INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING THE PROGRAM. IT MAY BE MORE THAN YOU
NEED OR WANT, BUT FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, HERE IT IS...

The beauty of this program lies in its simplicity of use, speed of backup
operations, and overall effectiveness. While not totally flawless, it
certainly comes close in our experience.

Here are some details about the program...

First of all, potential users should note that this is a disk-cloning
program - not a disk-imaging program - in the sense that the program is
designed to create (for all practical purposes) a bit-for-bit copy of the
"source" HDD (presumably one's day-to-day boot drive) so that if the
recipient of the clone is an internal HDD, i.e., the "destination" drive,
that cloned HDD will be bootable and its data immediately accessible, unlike
the situation where a disk image is created on the recipient HDD (or other
media) and a recovery process is necessary to restore the image to a
bootable, data-accessible state.

Note, however, that should the recipient of the clone be a USB external
HDD - since that device is not ordinarily bootable in an XP environment -
its contents (although accessible from the boot HDD) would need to be
"cloned back" to an internal HDD should the recovery/restore process be
necessary to create a bootable HDD. On the other hand, should the HDD
encased in its USB enclosure be removable, it could be installed as an
internal HDD in the PC thus allowing the user to have a bootable functioning
HDD.

The Casper 4.0 program also has the happy capability of cloning individual
partitions from one HDD to another HDD, not merely creating a "disk image"
of the partition(s). (Details omitted).

The significant advantage of the Casper 4.0 disk cloning program over other
disk cloning programs that we're familiar with, e.g., Acronis True Image or
Symantec's Norton Ghost, is its ability to create *incremental* disk clones
following the creation of the original (first) disk clone. (We've generally
found that the first original disk clone created by the Casper 4.0 program
takes about the same amount of time to create as one would find with other
disk-cloning programs). However, and this is the *crucial point* - employing
what Casper calls its "SmartClone" technology the program can create
subsequent disk clones of the source HDD usually at a fraction of the time
it takes other programs to create a "full" disk clone. This results in a
decided incentive for users to undertake frequent complete backups of their
systems knowing that they can create "incremental" disk clones in a
relatively short period of time. Understand that these "incremental" disk
clones thus created are complete clones of the source HDD.

Using the Casper program is simplicity itself, another substantial advantage
of this program. There's virtually no learning curve in undertaking the disk
cloning process as one navigates through the few easy-to-understand screens
with a final mouse-click on the button which will trigger the disk-cloning
process. After undertaking one or two disk-cloning operations it should take
the user no more than 20 seconds or so to get to that point. Simply stated,
the program is a joy to use.

Here's a more-or-less typical example of using the program to clone the
contents of one HDD to another HDD (internal or external)...
1. Access the Casper 4.0 program.
2. Click on the opening screen's "Copy Drive" icon.
3. Click on the Next button on the "Welcome..." window.
4. Select the "Copy an entire hard disk" option, then the Next button.
5. The next window will reflect the HDD to be copied, presumably your boot
drive. Click Next.
6. The next window will list the "destination" HDD, i.e., the drive that
will be the recipient of the cloned contents of the drive you're copying.
Highlight that drive listing and Click Next.
7. A warning screen will appear indicating the destination HDD is "currently
in use" and that "all data on that disk may be lost if you continue". It's
just a cautionary note so click Next.
8. Since you're cloning the entire contents of your source HDD to the
destination HDD, just click Next on the next screen to accomplish that.
9. Select the "Perform the copy now" option and click Next and then Next
again on the following screen.

The disk-cloning operation will proceed with a final screen indicating its
successful conclusion.

BTW, the program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning process on a
daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user.

The program is not particularly inexpensive as disk cloning programs go.
Cost for a single-license is $49.95. AFAIK, the program is available for
download only from the developer at http://www.fssdev.com and this does not
include the "Casper Startup Disk" which sells for an additional $9.95. That
"Startup Disk" is a really essential piece of the program since in many
cases it would be the only way to effect a recovery of the system when the
installed Casper program could not be accessed from the Windows environment
because the program resides on a HDD that has failed or has become
unbootable. The usual scenario for using the Startup Disk is when the
recipient of the clone has been an external HDD - most likely a USB external
HDD - and the original source disk has become defective or dysfunctional
(unbootable) so that there is no opportunity to access the installed Casper
program. Since the USB external HDD containing the cloned contents of the
source drive is not bootable, one must use the Startup Disk in that
situation in order to clone the contents of the external HDD back to a
non-defective internal HDD in order to recover the system.

The developer does have a 30-day trial version available - see
http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/. The trial version is somewhat
crippled in that the cloned partition on the destination drive will be the
same size as the partition on the source drive - they will not be expanded
to a larger size or to fill up available space on the new hard drive.
However, the trial version should give one some reasonable insight as to how
the program works. Note, however, that the trial version does not include
the program to create the "Startup Disk" described above. It must be
purchased separately.

Using the Startup Disk...
The Startup Disk will ordinarily be employed in those recovery-type
situations where the user cannot gain access to the installed Casper program
because the HDD to be restored (on which the Casper program resides) is
unbootable due to a corrupted operating system or has become
mechanically/electronically defective, and the drive that contains the disk
clone is a USB or Firewire external HDD which is ordinarily unbootable thus
preventing access to the installed Casper program from that device.

When using the Startup Disk remember to connect only the two HDDs that will
be involved in the disk-cloning (recovery) process; disconnect any other
storage device(s) from the system. The booting-up process with the Startup
Disk is usually quite lengthy - we've generally found that it takes between
6 to 9 minutes before the program loads and the disk-cloning process can
begin. Thereafter the disk-cloning operation (recovery) should go reasonably
quickly & smoothly.
Anna

 

[Sensitive New Age Thug]

:

Sensitive...
The basic approach you've outlined is a sensible one. In your situation it
probably would be best to undertake the disk-to-disk cloning process rather
than the disk imaging route.

--snip--

Anna, you're a gift from god.

Thanks, Oq.

What's up with Andrew E? Is his advice malicious, misguided, or possibly
correct, though perhaps less than ideal?

Cheers,


Tim

 

[Og]

--snip--

Thanks, Oq.

What's up with Andrew E? Is his advice malicious, misguided, or possibly
correct, though perhaps less than ideal?

Cheers,


Tim

Andrew E. knows enough factoids to appear *knowledgeable* to people who are
not computer gurus.
Of his dozens of posts, I have only seen *one* that was quasi correct.
Some of his responses, if followed, would result in catastrophe.
His response to your question, for example, is just plain patootie.
He has been told multiple times the X-Copy utility can *not* result in a
bootable clone,
yet he blithely insists on regurgitating the same garbage over and over
again.

You can trust Anna -- she is one sharp cookie.
Steve

 

[Sensitive New Age Thug]

:

Andrew E. knows enough factoids to appear *knowledgeable* to people who are
not computer gurus.
Of his dozens of posts, I have only seen *one* that was quasi correct.
Some of his responses, if followed, would result in catastrophe.
His response to your question, for example, is just plain patootie.
He has been told multiple times the X-Copy utility can *not* result in a
bootable clone,
yet he blithely insists on regurgitating the same garbage over and over
again.

You can trust Anna -- she is one sharp cookie.
Steve

Thanks again, Steve,

I was somewhat doubtful about Andrew's advice, because it is contrary to
other information I had seen, from more reliable sources.

Assuming all you say about Andrew is correct, is there a mechanism to ban
him? It's sort of scary he can give potentially disastrous advice on these
forums. People really depend on them.

Cheers,

Tim

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

:




Thanks again, Steve,

I was somewhat doubtful about Andrew's advice, because it is contrary to
other information I had seen, from more reliable sources.

Assuming all you say about Andrew is correct,

If you need corroboration, what Steve says is *absolutely* correct.
What Andrew E. says is occasionally (but rarely) correct. It is often
downright wrong, and often dangerous. It is often misleading.

The best thing you can say about his postings is that his grasp of
English grammar and usage is so poor that his messages are often
almost incomprehensible. They are therefore less likely to cause
problems for people who are unable to follow his advice because they
can't understand it.

is there a mechanism to ban
him? It's sort of scary he can give potentially disastrous advice on these
forums. People really depend on them.

This is a public newsgroup. Anyone can post here, giving any answer he
wants. Andrew E.'s responses are almost always wrong, but he has no
monopoly on giving out misinformation here; many others do
too--although very few are wrong as often as he is.

When using this or any other newsgroup, it's always important to know
who you're getting advice from and whether that advice can be trusted.
The best way to do that is not just to pop in with a question now and
then, but to hang around for a while. If you spend a little time here,
you will quickly find out who knows what he's talking about and who
doesn't.

 

[Sensitive New Age Thug]

:
--snip--

This is a public newsgroup. Anyone can post here, giving any answer he
wants. Andrew E.'s responses are almost always wrong, but he has no
monopoly on giving out misinformation here; many others do
too--although very few are wrong as often as he is.

Oh. Huh. I always thought this is a MS sponsored web-based forum. It now
seems that the web forum is a mirror for a usenet newsgroup.

There ought to be a way to ban Andrew. Maybe it's time for MS to cut the
cord to usenet. Seems like most people have abandoned it because of spam,
flame wars and other nonsense. I used to be a heavy usenet user. Not for
several years now.

Or maybe MS could add another feature to the web site, to accompany "Did
this post answer the question?" I.e., "Did this post seem malicious or
dangerously misguided?" Just a thought.

Tim

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

:
--snip--


Oh. Huh. I always thought this is a MS sponsored web-based forum. It now
seems that the web forum is a mirror for a usenet newsgroup.

Yes. It always has been.

There ought to be a way to ban Andrew.

I don't agree. As much as I hate the misinformation he spreads, I am
in favor of providing free access here to anyone. Censorship would
ultimately hurt all of us.

One of the best things about newsgroups like these is that all posts
are subject to public scrutiny. When you say something stupid, or even
just wrong, there's always someone to correct you. So Andrew E.'s
misinformation seldom gets left to stand as if it were right. That
kind of correction is much better than censorship, in part because it
applies equally to all of us, and there is nobody here who doesn't
make a mistake every now and then.

Maybe it's time for MS to cut the
cord to usenet.

Ugh! Much better the other way around, as far as I'm concerned.

Seems like most people have abandoned it because of spam,
flame wars and other nonsense.

The amount of that is exactly the same whether it's web-based or
Usenet-based. If you read messages here with the web-based interface
and I read them with my newsreader, we both see the same messages.

As far as I'm concerned, using a newsreader is far and away a better
way to participate here than by using the slow, clunky web interface.