cli8 vs bci6 vs c6/c3 (aftermarket)

[measekite]

I'm sure that this may give some kind of information. However, I doubt
that this info can be translated easily to practical applications.

Yes, I'd like to see your comparison. I'll do it next week myself, when
I have access to both my own iP4000 and my father's iP4200.

NOW DA TROUT IS GOING TO RUIN DA OLD MAN'S PRINTER. I TINK HE SHUD GET
DA HICKORY STICK.

 

[measekite]

DID DA KAT EAT DA TROUT

I'm saying the difference was so small, it was negledgable.
This reported major magenta difference is definately not the case here.
I was comparing BCI-6 -> C3, and C3 -> CLI-8

Exact numbers as follows (RGB)
C3 182,23,45
CLI-8 186,28,44

Colours are gathered from ink placed between 2 glass slides (those they
use with microscopes), and an average colour of all that area covered
with ink.
For printout, I also seen no obvious difference.
So I will stand by statement, with my disclaimer, not all companys inks.
I can post the raw scans of each ink if you want to analyze it yourself.

So EXACTLY as I replied in another post..
They are not identical, but the difference is so small the use of
different paper makes for a more noticable difference, and a well within
calibration range.





I have never seen a BCI3, thats why I never commented on it.




Exactly, hence why I had the brackets.
The ink was compatible, even though improved, colours changed slightly,
and needed to be calibrated, something you can do yourself anyway.
Where colour is a concern the printers and programs defaults are NEVER
correct (if you ever use a 9950 its the most obvious, infact canon should
be ashamed), and always need tweaking, so I don't see how it hurts, once
you set your own paramters, as long as you don;t have to go thru the pain
again.
As long as the colour difference is within the adjustable parameters.

Do you disagree?
Thats my POV on the subject, If you have a different one, as long as its
not measekites, its worth hearing.
I rarely even wait for the ink to run out before fitting a CIS, its not
a concern to me, I calibrate for the inks I use, my Epson 9600 is the
only printer I run on OEM (because carts are a decent size and price
unlike these toys), and it was no different and needed callibrating.
just these carts are stopping me from converting my ip6600d meaning I can
only refill. Until I get careful with the scalpal and make my own CIS
carts out of OEM ones (I hate cis carts where the cart has ink in it, had
issues with them in the past) I have the perfect pain in the arse printer
to play around with.

 

[measekite]

How else can one learn if the information is kept disclosed and noone
else has tried.
Oh, we don't, we beleive what the company says, and do as we are told and
never dare try anything new.. new is wrong if someone else hasn't
proved.. who is someone else?




And neither do you.
Wasn't advice.. so maybe you should take it.. I wish you bad luck.

IS IT POSSIBLE DAT CIVET DA KAT COULD BE EATEN BY DA MOUSE?

My kind.... is to exploit your kind.

NOW DERS CIVET DA KAT WID HIS PEE H DEE FROM ASSIE U

Thats right... those that beleive what there told by manufacturers are
being exploited/used, make money through making people beleive they need
what you have to offer for sale. and thats what the printer companys are
trying to do, and those that beleive it, like yourself, are exactly what
they want, it has nothing to do with you 'needing' it.

But away from work, I don't.. simple?





Correct, canon are much better for refilling,

A STUPID REASON. BUY DA MACHINE SO YOU CAN CLOG IT EASIER
HA HA HA HA

the epson was CIS only for
the reliability I needed, and being 4 custom inks, the manufacturer went
out of business
GOOD

and I could not get hold of the same inks,

SINCE THEY DO NOT DISCLOSE YOU WOULD NOT KNOW IF YOU GOT THE SAME THING
EACH TIME. DA KAT CLAIMS TO KILLFILE DA SMART ONE BUT HE SEEMS TO
ANSWER EACH POST AND HELP ME GET DA WORD OUT.

USE ONLY OEM INK

 

[measekite]

THIS STUPIDITY IS UNREAL. LOOK AT DA ANIMALS SCURRY CAUSE DAY KANT FIND
INK FOR DA NEW PRINTERS.

HA HA HA HA

CANON DID A GOOD JOB. UNFORTUNATELY THEY RAISED DA PRICE CAUSE OF DA
FREELOADING MORONS IN THIS NG.

 

[zakezuke]

Why not..<ruin my printer> 1/3 the expense is the ink, so, using primary grade
maths, 2
sets of refill ink and my printer has now been payed for..and cost me $0,
when compared to using 'reccomended' (yes, they say reccomended, not
needed) oem inks.

Yes, i'm very annoyed at the fact that my ip3000 is not ruined. I had
hoped it would be ruined by now as I already bought a replacement. I
should have never taken Measekite's advice on how to ruin my
printhead... his infomation is clearly inaccurate. Now i'm stuck with
a perfectly good printer, and a new printer on the way. What ever am I
going to do.

 

[Zak]

Yes, i'm very annoyed at the fact that my ip3000 is not ruined. I had
hoped it would be ruined by now as I already bought a replacement. I
should have never taken Measekite's advice on how to ruin my
printhead... his infomation is clearly inaccurate. Now i'm stuck with
a perfectly good printer, and a new printer on the way. What ever am I
going to do.

Did you expect honest advice from someone whose name means 500 bad checks?

mease : 500
kite : a bad check

dictionary.com

 

[measekite]

DERES MATT ZUKOSKI DA KOOK

...



Did you expect honest advice from someone whose name means 500 bad checks?

mease : 500
kite : a bad check

dictionary.com

 

[cvt]

According to the image specalist's site, magenta has a different part
number. However, according to printerfillingstation, they have a
different part number for cyan, magenta, and yellow. Whether
printerfillingstation is showing the most up to date data or what is
something I can't say, nor can I say i've done business with
printerfilling station.

But these are the part numbers for Image Specalists ink

http://image-specialists.com/newproducts.asp

PGI-5Bk = WJ1020 (Pigmented) Unchanged
Cli-8/bci-7/bci-7e
Cyan WJ2032 Magenta WJ6121 Yellow WJ797
Bci-6
Cyan WJ2032 Magenta WJ6053 Yellow WJ797


printerfillingstation.com
cli-8/bci-7 bci-6
P black WJ1110
Black WJ1109
Cyan WJ2121 WJ2032
Magenta WJ6121 WJ6035
Yellow WJ7121 WJ797

At the same time they reccomend drilling a hole in the cartridge instead
of removing (or pushing in) the plastic ball..
IMO thats a bad idea, but that aside.

Inktek also have different codes for the ink, as do ausjetink, inkteks
are improved inks, ausjetink are the sane as the older ones and never
needed it, although the colour is margainly different, its very minute
and easily accounted for.
http://www.ausjetinks.com.au/index.php/page/3/sort/2a/cName/bulk-ink-
canon-ink
http://www.ausjetinks.com.au/advanced_search_result.php?
search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1&keywords=BCI-6&manufacturers_id=1

Am I the only person who profiles my printers and doesn't see this as a
concern?

As long as the ink is reasonably close, And is not going to cause issues
with the head, and has equivelent or better lifetime than oem ink, I am
happy. And as all these requirements are met, I then callibrate for that
ink and print away happily.

Inktek is worldwide, and have specific cli-8 ink, but there ink is not as
good as what ausjetink supplies, and not sure on canons or epsons, but
your lucky to get 4 refills of it before throwing away a HP cart, wheras
you get 8-10 refills using the, what you could call slightly more generic
ink that ausjetink make.

If you want the exact colours, and no callibration (somehow managed to
use the awful callibration that comes with the printers) the hobbicolors
inks are probably what I'd reccomend, who are also a global company.
Personally, I think its overpriced (over 3x what I pay) compared to
ausjetinks which results in identical prints at the end of the day.

I think it comes down to do whatever you want, but anyone who has access
to these inks they are good, Inktek, hobbicolours, and several other I
dumped years ago as they just werent up to scratch, or overpriced.

Everyone claims magenta to be hugely different, the others to be minor.
In my experience, none are majorly different, I am keeping the test
prints of all of them, and will be putting them all together so you can
see for yourselfs.
The differences in the inks, the difference after callibration, and let
you make up your own minds, and if others are able to test other
manufacturs inks as well might be able to get the first propper
comparison of inks... afterall, we choose aftermarket inks as a choice,
theres no reason we can't choose to do things differently.

 

[cvt]

I got some monitor calibration once from a friend who verified Laptop,
external CRT, and some improvements on printer and scanner. It was a
tool such as GretagMacbeth Eye-One Display Mod.2 (almost 300 EUR) - I
guess the Colorvision Spyder 2.

Well and truly worth it, I borrowed a Spyder2 from the photography shop and
got all my monitors calibrated to it aswell.

But I'd like to learn more about other approaches, apart from manual
try and error.


Nevertheless: Thanks :-D


Not my world, althugh I'll have to to the test prints from Win
systems, I'm afraid.

What OS?
I keep all printing to Windows due to PS CS2, don't own mac, and use linux
for text and everything else.
so all my callibration is naturally for windows.

If you have a IT8 card (which I never brought up before) since we started
on callibration, maybe if when you scanned to compare, scan it at the same
time so we can see scanner innacuracys.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Sounds like an interesting experiment. After all, Epson tried to
convince everyone that they had to use their inks and never stray or
change from dye to pigment or vice-a-versa also, and now there is a huge
industry in 3rd party inks, continuous inking systems, etc. So maybe
the truth is the Canons are no more critical, or not a lot more. It
seems the only way we'll find out is people willingly testing their own
printers and seeing what happens. One thing for sure, the OEMs are in
no rush to tell us anything ;-)

Art

 

[cvt]

Sounds like an interesting experiment. After all, Epson tried to
convince everyone that they had to use their inks and never stray or
change from dye to pigment or vice-a-versa also, and now there is a
huge industry in 3rd party inks, continuous inking systems, etc. So
maybe the truth is the Canons are no more critical, or not a lot more.
It seems the only way we'll find out is people willingly testing
their own printers and seeing what happens. One thing for sure, the
OEMs are in no rush to tell us anything ;-)

Art

Who would beleive what I say?
Who would care?
I've realised when it comes to printers I'm a bit different to most
people here.

Anyway, I spent some time going through some journals, and other
material.

All I can say is theres a web of trademarks and patents breaking through
is not easy.

Eitherway, I did find enough out that the composition of the canon,
epson, hp, infact all digital inks, when being made to suit a printer,
all start from the identical base ink composition.
They then, through high speed photography, and trial and error, get the
composition of the ink correct so the ink reacts correctly, and is
normally left there.
They then get the inks colour and intensity correct, and then redo the
composition amounts to get it correct (as the amount of dye/pigment)
added changes it slightly.
The funny thing is if the inks wrong, it will dribble, have aliens
(multiple droplets instead of one) or the oppisite, not drip, and be left
hanging behind, or be too thick, and not fit through the nozzle, or
damage the peizo.
the actual percentage is minute, using the wrong ink has a high
possiblility of bad prints, a low chance of immediate failure.
If the print is effectively prefect (how do you know without looking as
the droplets fall?, anyway, that aside..) is all that matters when
getting the ink correct.

Also the Epson uses a flexible wall, Canon use a heating plate.
The bubble-jet has always had a short lifetime..
What I must ask is why can I put through literally 50k+ pages through a
short lifetime printhead (i560, running a CIS from new, did aprox 45k
pages and lost 1 black nozzle, currently still only 1 missing nozzle,
never been even looked at for maintenance, let alone head cleans). In my
opinion, for a cheap desktop printer, thats a VERY long lifetime.
Are the OEM inks designed to damage the printhead?
That sounds feasable, Treat the head badenough to let it last only a few
years of average use, forcing the people to upgrade?

Any other explanations?
I get heaps more pages through my printers without fault to most people
using oem cartridges.
Unless the 'sitting unused' is worse than printing pages????


I am gonna keep researching and experimenting till I come up with a
feasable thesis.

If you have any information in regards to any of this I'd love to hear
it.

 

[measekite]

Who would beleive what I say?

AN IDIOT

Who would care?

A MORON

I've realised when it comes to printers I'm a bit different to most
people here.

CUZ U R CIVET DA KAT

Anyway, I spent some time going through some journals, and other
material.

All I can say is theres a web of trademarks and patents breaking through
is not easy.

Eitherway, I did find enough out that the composition of the canon,
epson, hp, infact all digital inks, when being made to suit a printer,
all start from the identical base ink composition.
They then, through high speed photography, and trial and error, get the
composition of the ink correct so the ink reacts correctly, and is
normally left there.

AN ASSie NO IT ALL

They then get the inks colour

ITS COLOR NOT COLOUR

 

[measekite]

At the same time they reccomend drilling a hole in the cartridge instead
of removing (or pushing in) the plastic ball..
IMO thats a bad idea, but that aside.

TO MATCH DA ONE IN CIVET DA KATS HEAD

Inktek also have different codes for the ink, as do ausjetink,

BUT THEY DO NOT DISCLOSE WHAT THEY ARE SELLING. IT MAY BE THE SAME CRAP

inkteks
are improved inks, ausjetink are the sane as the older ones and never
needed it, although the colour is margainly different, its very minute
and easily accounted for.
http://www.ausjetinks.com.au/index.php/page/3/sort/2a/cName/bulk-ink-
canon-ink
http://www.ausjetinks.com.au/advanced_search_result.php?
search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1&keywords=BCI-6&manufacturers_id=1

Am I the only person who profiles my printers and doesn't see this as a
concern?

YOU ARE NOT A PERSON YOU ARE A KAT

As long as the ink is reasonably close, And is not going to cause issues
with the head, and has equivelent or better lifetime than oem ink, I am
happy.

YOU ARE TOO DUB TO BE HAPPY

And as all these requirements are met, I then callibrate for that
ink and print away happily.

Inktek is worldwide, and have specific cli-8 ink, but there ink is not as
good as what ausjetink supplies, and not sure on canons or epsons,

IT IS ONLY A LYING CLAIM

but
your lucky to get 4 refills of it before throwing away a HP cart, wheras
you get 8-10 refills using the, what you could call slightly more generic
ink that ausjetink make.

GENERIC HA HA HA HA

If you want the exact colours, and no callibration (somehow managed to
use the awful callibration that comes with the printers) the hobbicolors
inks are probably what I'd reccomend, who are also a global company.
Personally, I think its overpriced (over 3x what I pay) compared to
ausjetinks which results in identical prints at the end of the day.

I think it comes down to do whatever you want, but anyone who has access
to these inks they are good, Inktek, hobbicolours, and several other I
dumped years ago as they just werent up to scratch, or overpriced.

YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW NOTHING

Everyone claims magenta to be hugely different, the others to be minor.
In my experience, none are majorly different, I am keeping the test
prints of all of them, and will be putting them all together so you can
see for yourselfs.
The differences in the inks, the difference after callibration, and let
you make up your own minds, and if others are able to test other
manufacturs inks

THEY ARE NOT MANUFACTURERS BUT RELABELERS. YOUR LEVEL OF INTELLIGENCE
IS SINKING TO A NEW LOW

as well might be able to get the first propper
comparison of inks... afterall, we choose aftermarket inks

BECAUSE WE ARE STUPID.

 

[zakezuke]

What I must ask is why can I put through literally 50k+ pages through a

short lifetime printhead (i560, running a CIS from new, did aprox 45k
pages and lost 1 black nozzle, currently still only 1 missing nozzle,
never been even looked at for maintenance, let alone head cleans). In my
opinion, for a cheap desktop printer, thats a VERY long lifetime.
Are the OEM inks designed to damage the printhead?
That sounds feasable, Treat the head badenough to let it last only a few
years of average use, forcing the people to upgrade?

What may be likely is putting air into the system lowers the head life.
Many who employ CIS seem to believe it's the fact they don't remove
ink from the system that results longer life. This is a hypothesis
worth checking out.

 

[zakezuke]

This is the closest that can be done without actually modifying cartridges,

Considering the main issue with my test was the colour difference, and
fading, the printer which I used wasn't a concern, if you want a resolution
test, thats somethign different.

Well... I got my pixma in and I have to say the cartridges are a wee
bit different physicaly. The exit port is about in the right place.

The handle side on the cli-8 has a larger slant to it, so much so that
it doesn't seem like the bci-6 would fit easily, not without trimming.


The opposite side has only one extrusion, rather than two.
The lower side has no peg where the bci-6 has one page close to the
handle.
There is also an indent on the cli-8 close to the space between the
chambers on either side.

The changes would indicate that while you can't shove a cli-6 into a
cli-8 socket, one "may" be able to shove a cli-8 into a cli6 socket. I
haven't tried this yet.

 

[titan]

Hi,

I work on CD and DVD printing. I have been working sucessfully with
Canon ip5000, but is not available anymore. Maybe I will change to the
Canon IP4300, but this model works with the inks CLI, instead of the
BCI, used before.

The issue is that I bought some quarters of the ink BCI to work with
CISS on my IP5000 printers, and I want to know if I can work with the
ink BCI indistinctly on the printer IP4300 and on the printer IP5000,
or if the new CLI ink is very different from the old BCI, and if I
MUST buy the ink CLI in quarters to work with the IP4300.

I hope somebody's help !!

 

[measekite]

I would call Canon and ask them. They designed the printer not the
scrouges you find here.