cleaning up dust inside Dell inspiron 1100

S

s

It looks like a fan in the top right corner of this picture
but the picture isn't quite good enough to make out finer
details,
http://www.laptopsetc.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=350

Here's a couple better pictures, it looks like ebay might be
among the lower cost alternatives,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220009773013
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160018702694



6 for $20, a 20 year supply.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170066248475

Thanks for the links and post. I had one doubt. My new Dell fan is
having issues in 3 years. How long might these refurbished last? I
don't want to be changing these every few months(even though if I get 6
for $20 in terms of expense I can). Could they have some other adverse
effect if they are not of good quality(like overheating of CPU if it is
not working properly)? I don't intend to be ungracious but 6 for $20 is
quite surprising. Particularly, when a new one is far more expensive. I
know I asked for price saving options but I have had friends whose
refurbished computers failed in a 2-3 months. I understand this can
happen with a brand new also.

But given the ones from ebay(or some other retailer) and Dell which is
generally of good quality?

I can pay little more if the product has more chances of lasting long.

I apologize Kony if my note is improper. I am truly grateful for the
links and all your help.
 
R

Rod Speed

I don't have sufficient experience to distinguish between the three.

There's only two there, a bad bearing or just the
fan running faster and so producing more air noise.
Bad bearings never sound like more air noise.
All I can make out is fan is running much more faster
than it did before(so I presume it is more air noise).

Yeah, looks likely.
My hard disk was from Toshiba which had a five year warranty.
But since Dell purchased it from Toshiba and assembled it for
me I got just the 1 year warranty of Dell(and I did not purchase
the additional years warranty from them).

Legally that is just plain wrong.
Apologies, I was not careless as I did not explain
why I loaded Win 2k. I loaded Win 2k thinking it would
use less RAM,CPU cycles than Xp generally does.

It certainly uses less ram.
There was no noise in Win XP. When my hard disk failed
I loaded Win 2k and it was also fine till the past 4 months.

OK, that eliminates the lack of software to control the fan speed possibility.
I thought maybe Win 2k is being outphased so it could be a
cause. So, I loaded Win XP Pro but the problem aggravated.
Also, now I have far more freezes than I had with Win 2k

More evidence of a hardware problem developing.
(But, perhaps the freeze reason is my
machine is not powerful enough for XP Pro)

Its no different to the original XP Home in that regard and
that wont produce a freeze anyway, just a slowdown.
I will try this out.

No need for the fan speed question now, but it would be interesting
to see if you get a lot more freezes now than you used to get originally.

It does look like its developed a hardware problem over time.
It may be something as basic as a dry joint or cracked trace
on the motherboard and that may well be why the fan runs
at full speed all the time now.
 
S

s

and how can I fix it?
Work out if that is the problem. See if Speedfan can see the fan speed.

I got Speedfan from http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php
From the readings section I get the below information.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Win9x:NO 64Bit:NO GiveIO:YES SpeedFan:YES
I/O properly initialized
Linked ISA BUS at $0290
SMBus successfully enabled

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

When I choose the configure option and view the temperatures in that
section I obtain

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Label Chip Sensor Sample BUS Address

HD0 HDO(30.0GB) HDO 40C SMART $0
Temp1 ACPI Temp1 55C ISA $0


Desired 40C
Warning 50C

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

In that section when I choose Fans, Voltages, Speeds there is no
information. I am not seeing as much information as shown on
http://www.almico.com/sfscreenshots.php

I am not clear if I am doing something incorrect or not enabling any
option. I tinkered with its different options but could not get the fan
speed.

Could it mean I need to change something in my BIOS to enable Speedfan
to function properly? Since I purchased my machine, I did not tinker
with my BIOS.


My hard disk's performance is fine as per Speedfan so probably it is
not a faulty disk due to which the processor might have needed to cycle
too much resulting in high fan speeds(and noise).

You've never been very clear about whether the problem is bearing
noise or just air noise due to the speed the fan is rotating at.

I apologize again. I cannot quite differentiate exactly what is. I
think it is just air noise due to the speed the fan is rotating at and
not bearing noise. But, I could be wrong.

Do you mean you have it physically unplugged, or do you mean
that you normally have the battery installed, but use mains power ?

I meant I normally have the battery installed, but use mains power.
Yes, if you normally leave the battery in the laptop it can do.

Is there anything I can do to increase battery life and in general all
components of any laptop or desktop? Are there some steps which can
help increasing life of such components. I understand cleaning them
regularly and safety against physical damage is necessary.

Thanks a lot.
 
J

Joel

Thanks for the links and post. I had one doubt. My new Dell fan is
having issues in 3 years. How long might these refurbished last? I
don't want to be changing these every few months(even though if I get 6
for $20 in terms of expense I can). Could they have some other adverse
effect if they are not of good quality(like overheating of CPU if it is
not working properly)? I don't intend to be ungracious but 6 for $20 is
quite surprising. Particularly, when a new one is far more expensive. I
know I asked for price saving options but I have had friends whose
refurbished computers failed in a 2-3 months. I understand this can
happen with a brand new also.

But given the ones from ebay(or some other retailer) and Dell which is
generally of good quality?

Well, each has limited of personal experience, so someone may just be kind
enough to do some SEARCHING then pass the information to other, but may not
have any personal experience with some product (especially eBay's fan).

If you want to save few bucks, keeping the Dell, and learning new trick
etc.. then you can always do some research on re-oil the fan, and it may
last for months or years. And you can GOOGLE for answer as it may have more
detail and even have PHOTO etc..
I can pay little more if the product has more chances of lasting long.

Paying more doesn't always warrantee to have better product or last
 
S

s

It does look like its developed a hardware problem over time.
It may be something as basic as a dry joint or cracked trace
on the motherboard and that may well be why the fan runs
at full speed all the time now.

What would be the best steps for me now if as you are saying it could
be as a dry joint or cracked trace on the motherboard?

Would a notebook cooler help me? Does that reduce CPU temp due to which
the fans don't need to run at full speed all the time?

Am I unlucky to get a bad model or is my case fairly common?

Thanks a lot.
 
S

s

But given the ones from ebay(or some other retailer) and Dell which is
Well, each has limited of personal experience, so someone may just be kind
enough to do some SEARCHING then pass the information to other, but may not
have any personal experience with some product (especially eBay's fan).

Thanks. I am grateful and understand my question was incorrect. I
apologize for that.
I apologize again to Kony(and the group) as my question was improper.
Paying more doesn't always warrantee to have better product or last
longer... have you heard of RIP-OFF or why people shopping around? <bg>

You are correct. I understand Dell(and similar shops) charge more for
new product partly because of their warranty which I don't get in
ebay(and similar shops).

Thanks a lot.
 
R

Rod Speed

What would be the best steps for me now if as you are saying
it could be as a dry joint or cracked trace on the motherboard?

I'd image the hard drive, restore the original XP Home, see if the
fan speed is still full on all the time now. Thats a pretty quick and
easy test to see if the hardware has gone bad on the fan speed.

If you get the same problem with the fan on all the time with the
original XP Home config, there isnt a lot you can do about that
except replace the motherboard or the whole laptop or put up with
it until the freezes become so frequent that you have to replace it.
Would a notebook cooler help me?

Nope, that would just add more fan noise since the system appears
to run the cpu fan at full speed regardless of the cpu temperature.
Does that reduce CPU temp due to which the
fans don't need to run at full speed all the time?

Yes, that should produce a lower cpu temp, BUT the problem appears
to be that even when the laptop is just turned on, when the cpu is still
relatively cool, it still runs the cpu fan at full speed anyway.

You could check that cpu temperature and fan speed question with Speedfan,
see if its running the fan at full speed all the time regardless of the cpu temp.
Am I unlucky to get a bad model
Yes.

or is my case fairly common?

Nope except in the sense that it is fairly common for some Dells to run the
hard drive at much too high temps and that kills the hard drive, as you have seen.
 
R

Rod Speed


That is correct.
Win9x:NO 64Bit:NO GiveIO:YES SpeedFan:YES
I/O properly initialized
Linked ISA BUS at $0290
SMBus successfully enabled

When I choose the configure option and view the temperatures in that
section I obtain

Label Chip Sensor Sample BUS Address
HD0 HDO(30.0GB) HDO 40C SMART $0
Temp1 ACPI Temp1 55C ISA $0
Desired 40C
Warning 50C

In that section when I choose Fans, Voltages, Speeds there is no
information. I am not seeing as much information as shown on
http://www.almico.com/sfscreenshots.php
I am not clear if I am doing something incorrect or not enabling any
option. I tinkered with its different options but could not get the fan speed.

Most likely Speedfan cant find the sensors for that. Its
all a bit iffy that stuff isnt very well documented and if
Speedfan cant find them, usually nothing else can either.
Could it mean I need to change something in my
BIOS to enable Speedfan to function properly?

No, if it cant see the sensors, nothing in the bios will change that.
Since I purchased my machine, I did not tinker with my BIOS.

Is there any hardware monitoring, temperature and fan speed in the bios ?
Thats not common with laptops, quite common with desktops now.
My hard disk's performance is fine as per Speedfan so probably
it is not a faulty disk due to which the processor might have
needed to cycle too much resulting in high fan speeds(and noise).

Yeah, it wont be that.
I apologize again. I cannot quite differentiate exactly
what is. I think it is just air noise due to the speed
the fan is rotating at and not bearing noise.

Yeah, looks like it.
But, I could be wrong.

Yeah, its not easy to explain the difference in sounds.

I dont currently have any fans with bad bearings so I can record the sound etc.
I meant I normally have the battery installed, but use mains power.

Yeah, thats what most do.
Is there anything I can do to increase battery life

Yes, dont have it in the laptop when using the laptop on the mains.
and in general all components of any laptop or desktop?

Nope, that's the only thing that makes any difference to that
except treating the laptop carefully and not dropping it etc.
Are there some steps which can help increasing life of such components.

Just the battery.
I understand cleaning them regularly and
safety against physical damage is necessary.

Yeah, thats really all you can do apart from the battery.
Thanks a lot.

No problem, thats what these technical newsgroups are for.
 
S

s

Is there any hardware monitoring, temperature and fan speed in the bios ?
Thats not common with laptops, quite common with desktops now.

Not as far as I could see. I think it is a Pheonix BIOS.
Yes, dont have it in the laptop when using the laptop on the mains.

Why is it so? Can you please explain? I understand the battery
undergoes charging/discharging internally. Does having it on the mains
affect this somehow?

Thanks a lot.
 
S

s

Currently, from the thread at
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?p=1778780 I went
to http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/index.html. After I installed this tool
IK8fangui the fan's are much quieter. Also using the temperature
control feature of that fan noise is reduced a lot. The glitch is by
using that software I am changing the thermal management of my machine
which is not recommended. Hence, I removed it.

Do using such applications generally help or do they cause more harm?

Thanks a lot.
 
K

kony

Thanks for the links and post. I had one doubt. My new Dell fan is
having issues in 3 years. How long might these refurbished last?

The pictures were primarily to show what it looked like. If
I were buying one from ebay (or wherever), I'd want a new
fan. Note in the pictures though (if they are still
available, one link didn't work a moment ago) that among
same compatible heatsinks, more than one make of fan was
used... it wouldn't be uncommon for one to be better than
the other(s), but since I don't have them for comparison I
can't say which might be.

I
don't want to be changing these every few months(even though if I get 6
for $20 in terms of expense I can). Could they have some other adverse
effect if they are not of good quality(like overheating of CPU if it is
not working properly)?

if the default (manufacturer spec'd and as labeled) current
is lower, they will tend to have a lower max RPM, which
would (all else being equal which seems to be the case since
they're drop-in replacements with same diameter, thickness,
and blade design) mean a little lower airflow. It will also
tend to mean they'd last longer than an otherwise
*identical* fan with higher RPM.

Since I don't know how hot nor how much margin that
partiuclar notebook has, I can't predict whether a different
airflow would be a problem. We might be able to ignore this
factor though, since they are all meant to cool this model
of laptop and as such, should have acceptible airflow.

A low quality fan will simply wear out sooner, and/or be
noisier.


I don't intend to be ungracious but 6 for $20 is
quite surprising. Particularly, when a new one is far more expensive. I
know I asked for price saving options but I have had friends whose
refurbished computers failed in a 2-3 months. I understand this can
happen with a brand new also.


First you can pretty much ignore Dell's price, it will
usually be subtantially higher than anywhere else except
some notebook specialty shops which don't try to be cost
competitive with anyone else. I'd tend to suspect that if
you find a seller with only one of them, it might be a pull
from an old system (particularly if the seller doesn't sell
a lot of other similar hardware), but someone will lots of
similar or same parts may have a source for these... on
occasion I've been able to buy bulk Dell sound and video
cards on ebay, once they stop using a particular part and
the warranty period for the series is up, the remaining
stock gets sold off.

But given the ones from ebay(or some other retailer) and Dell which is
generally of good quality?

There's no reason to think any are necessarily of better
quality, they were likely all made by same manufacturer for
Dell, the only question is how they ended up with a
particular seller or if they were used, pulled out of a
laptop after it was deemed not worthy of repairs so the fan
would then have much of it's original lifespan gone already.
I can't predict this with any particular fan, to a cetain
extent you have to take the seller's word for it that it's
"New", and inspect it when it arrives for signs of dust (or
cleaning residue, if they tried to clean it so it looked
new(ish) again).

I can pay little more if the product has more chances of lasting long.

I apologize Kony if my note is improper. I am truly grateful for the
links and all your help.

Comparing a new replacement from Dell vs an ebay seller,
there is no reason to believe the one from Dell would last
longer or vice-versa. The main issue would be that with
Dell you have a certain assurance it is a new part, while
with any website selling as regular supposed-new stock, it's
probably reasonably safe to assume it is new but with ebay
your odds of finding used fans goes up significantly... so
read the descriptions carefully and ask the seller
questions.
 
R

Rod Speed

Not as far as I could see. I think it is a Pheonix BIOS.

Yeah, no mention of it in the manual.
Why is it so? Can you please explain?

Basically with the battery in the laptop and the laptop being mains
powered, the battery will still self discharge when its turned off and
will be charged by the laptop when its powered up again. That over
years is worse for the battery than leaving it out of the laptop instead.

You obviously need to recharge it occasionally by putting it
back in the laptop till its fully charged again, but that is a lot
less charging that it will get when left in the laptop all the time.

Its the charging that wears out a laptop battery. You cant do that forever.
I understand the battery undergoes charging/discharging
internally. Does having it on the mains affect this somehow?

Yes, it ends up being charged a lot more.
 
R

Rod Speed

s said:
Currently, from the thread at
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?p=1778780
I went to http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/index.html. After I installed this
tool IK8fangui the fan's are much quieter.

That supports the theory that the problem is that the fan speed
control native to the Dell isnt working anymore for some reason.
Also using the temperature control feature of that fan noise is reduced a lot.

Does it show any temperature data ?
The glitch is by using that software I am changing the thermal management
of my machine which is not recommended. Hence, I removed it.
Do using such applications generally help or do they cause more harm?

They shouldnt be necessary with a system that already has a
variable speed fan, but yours clearly has a problem somewhere.

Trouble is that if its a sensor problem, you may well do
more harm than good slowing the fan down without useful
temperature data. Its safer to let the fan run at full speed
in the absense of good temperature data.
 
S

s

The pictures were primarily to show what it looked like. If
I were buying one from ebay (or wherever), I'd want a new
fan. Note in the pictures though (if they are still
available, one link didn't work a moment ago) that among
same compatible heatsinks, more than one make of fan was
used... it wouldn't be uncommon for one to be better than
the other(s), but since I don't have them for comparison I
can't say which might be.

Thanks for clarifying.
if the default (manufacturer spec'd and as labeled) current
is lower, they will tend to have a lower max RPM, which
would (all else being equal which seems to be the case since
they're drop-in replacements with same diameter, thickness,
and blade design) mean a little lower airflow. It will also
tend to mean they'd last longer than an otherwise
*identical* fan with higher RPM.

Since I don't know how hot nor how much margin that
partiuclar notebook has, I can't predict whether a different
airflow would be a problem. We might be able to ignore this
factor though, since they are all meant to cool this model
of laptop and as such, should have acceptible airflow.

A low quality fan will simply wear out sooner, and/or be
noisier.

Thanks. I was under the impression that a low quality fan will not cool
my CPU properly resulting in a chip meltdown.
First you can pretty much ignore Dell's price, it will
usually be subtantially higher than anywhere else except
some notebook specialty shops which don't try to be cost
competitive with anyone else. I'd tend to suspect that if
you find a seller with only one of them, it might be a pull
from an old system (particularly if the seller doesn't sell
a lot of other similar hardware), but someone will lots of
similar or same parts may have a source for these... on
occasion I've been able to buy bulk Dell sound and video
cards on ebay, once they stop using a particular part and
the warranty period for the series is up, the remaining
stock gets sold off.

Actually, I have not purchased before from ebay hence was skeptical.
There's no reason to think any are necessarily of better
quality, they were likely all made by same manufacturer for
Dell, the only question is how they ended up with a
particular seller or if they were used, pulled out of a
laptop after it was deemed not worthy of repairs so the fan
would then have much of it's original lifespan gone already.
I can't predict this with any particular fan, to a cetain
extent you have to take the seller's word for it that it's
"New", and inspect it when it arrives for signs of dust (or
cleaning residue, if they tried to clean it so it looked
new(ish) again).

You are correct. I was worried that somebody may pass a used(old) as
new to me.

Comparing a new replacement from Dell vs an ebay seller,
there is no reason to believe the one from Dell would last
longer or vice-versa. The main issue would be that with
Dell you have a certain assurance it is a new part, while
with any website selling as regular supposed-new stock, it's
probably reasonably safe to assume it is new but with ebay
your odds of finding used fans goes up significantly... so
read the descriptions carefully and ask the seller
questions.

Thanks. You are correct I need to be careful while purchasing things on
sites.

Would places like newegg.com or tigerdirect.com(or are there any
others) be better choices?

Also, when I checked with CircuitCity they told the following products
will function as an internal fan.

Tarcus Notebook Chill Hub
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=109816

Trip Lite Notebook Cooling Pad
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Search.do?c=1&context=&keyword=Nc2003SR&searchSection=All

Tarcus Notebook Chill Hub
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=109816

I am unclear if they are external or internal.

Thanks for all your help and time.
 
S

s

That supports the theory that the problem is that the fan speed
control native to the Dell isnt working anymore for some reason.

Could Dell have implemented it when they shipped me my machine(which
had Win XP home loaded in it) and because now I don't have it I am
having issues?
Does it show any temperature data ?

It shows CPU temp as 60C and state of system fan 3098RPM at CPU load
1-4%.
When I try to get temperature of GPU(I presume it is Graphic Processing
Unit), memory and chipset it is saying to backup applications and check
with Dell diagnostics that my system supports reading from temperature
sensor before proceeding. I am searching currently my diagnostic CD. I
will post the results soon.

But occassionally my CPU goes to 100% load even when only few browser
windows are open. This puzzles me.
They shouldnt be necessary with a system that already has a
variable speed fan, but yours clearly has a problem somewhere.

Trouble is that if its a sensor problem, you may well do
more harm than good slowing the fan down without useful
temperature data. Its safer to let the fan run at full speed
in the absense of good temperature data.

Yes, after I check with Dell diagnostics and get the temperature of
GPU, memory and chipset I think it is better to remove it.

Thanks a lot.
 
K

kony

Would places like newegg.com or tigerdirect.com(or are there any
others) be better choices?

Neither are likely to sell this fan or whole fan-heatsink
assembly. Both of them (Newegg and TD) sell some good
quality parts and some lower quality junk, it is a
reflection of what people trying to save a buck will buy,
more than the particular seller's reputation or reliablity,
but many people consider TD to be a shady business and won't
do business with them.

Also, when I checked with CircuitCity they told the following products
will function as an internal fan.

Tarcus Notebook Chill Hub
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=109816

Trip Lite Notebook Cooling Pad
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Search.do?c=1&context=&keyword=Nc2003SR&searchSection=All

Tarcus Notebook Chill Hub
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=109816

I am unclear if they are external or internal.


You don't want any of these. IF your fan is dying you need
a new exact replacement part spec'd specifically for that
notebook or (close enough, some parts work in a given
series, multiple notebooks as noted on the ebay auction
pages).
 
R

Rod Speed

s said:
Could Dell have implemented it when they shipped me my machine(which had
Win XP home loaded in it) and because now I don't have it I am having issues?

If it wasnt for the fact that the fan speed control
did work for some of the time you had 2K installed.
It shows CPU temp as 60C and state of system fan 3098RPM at CPU load 1-4%.

Does the temperature change when you do cpu intensive work ?

What that proves is whether the temperature reading is valid or at least varying.
When I try to get temperature of GPU(I presume it is Graphic Processing Unit),
Yes.

memory and chipset it is saying to backup applications and
check with Dell diagnostics that my system supports reading
from temperature sensor before proceeding. I am searching
currently my diagnostic CD. I will post the results soon.
But occassionally my CPU goes to 100% load even when
only few browser windows are open. This puzzles me.

You can get that when a background process kicks in occasionally.
Yes, after I check with Dell diagnostics and get the temperature
of GPU, memory and chipset I think it is better to remove it.
Thanks a lot.

No problem, happy to continue to discuss it for as long as it takes.
 
S

s

Does the temperature change when you do cpu intensive work ? > What that proves is whether the temperature reading is valid or at least varying.


Yes, it fluctuates and increases when I do CPU intensive work. At some
point the system fan says 4095 RPM high and more or less stays in the
range of 3800-4200RPM. Is that generally too high for my machine(P4
2.2Ghz)? I understand fan speed mainly depends on CPU load and with
increase in load it needs to rotate faster but is the range
3800-4200RPM normal considering the maximum work I do is few(4-5)
browser tabs in one window with an Internet Explorer(IE) 7 browser. I
have ZoneAlarm and Symantec Client Security running besides the regular
windows processes. But these were also present on my XP home and Win 2k
except I had IE 6 instead of 7 then.

I am trying to get the image of my current machine and load XP home to
test if it could fix it.
Unfortunately, my disk got corrupted so have to borrow some other
person's disk. Also, I cannot find my Dell diagnostic CD using which I
could check the fan/sensors. Trying to borrow that also.

No problem, happy to continue to discuss it for as long as it takes.

Thanks very much. If it wasn't for helpful people in the newsgroup I
would be truly lost with Dell, CircuitCity goading me to make purchases
rather than helping me find the solution.
 
R

Rod Speed

Yes, it fluctuates and increases when I do CPU intensive
work. At some point the system fan says 4095 RPM high
and more or less stays in the range of 3800-4200RPM.
Is that generally too high for my machine(P4 2.2Ghz)?

That isnt cpu specific, it varys with how the heatsink and fan is done.

Dell should be able to tell you.
I understand fan speed mainly depends on CPU load and with
increase in load it needs to rotate faster but is the range
3800-4200RPM normal considering the maximum work I do is few(4-5)
browser tabs in one window with an Internet Explorer(IE) 7 browser.

See above.
I have ZoneAlarm and Symantec Client Security running besides
the regular windows processes. But these were also present on
my XP home and Win 2k except I had IE 6 instead of 7 then.

I'd certainly image the system and restore the original XP Home,
its possible that whatever controls the fan speed has got screwed
up somehow at the software level and thats the best test of that.
Best test to see if the sensor etc has gone bad at the harware level.
I am trying to get the image of my current machine
and load XP home to test if it could fix it.
 

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