CHKDSK restart loop

L

Lady Dungeness

Wincows MCE 2005 here -- I ran chkdsk from the GUI. I rebooted, ate
dinner while it checked, and then it rebooted by itself, and started
the CHKDSK process over again. I shut it down, and powered up three
different times -- each time it started the CHKDSK over again, even
though I had 7 seconds to press any key to make it stop. I pressed a
key and it stopped. Then it wouldn't go any further -- just sat
there. So I had to hard-start. and then it happened all over again.
Finally a boot-choice menu screen came up and I chose last known good.
What's this about?
Lady Dungeness
Crabby, but the Legs are Delicious!
 
T

TaurArian [MS-MVP]

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=316506
Chkdsk Runs Each Time That You Start Your Computer

Check Disk - Disk Checking Runs Upon Boot
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_c.htm#cd

How Do I Prevent CHKDSK From Running Every Time My PC Starts
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org/how_do_i_prevent_chkdsk_from_run.htm
--
====================================
TaurArian [MS-MVP] 2005-2007 - Australia
====================================
How to make a good post: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
Defending your machine: http://defendingyourmachine2.blogspot.com/
http://taurarian.mvps.org/index.htm



| Wincows MCE 2005 here -- I ran chkdsk from the GUI. I rebooted, ate
| dinner while it checked, and then it rebooted by itself, and started
| the CHKDSK process over again. I shut it down, and powered up three
| different times -- each time it started the CHKDSK over again, even
| though I had 7 seconds to press any key to make it stop. I pressed a
| key and it stopped. Then it wouldn't go any further -- just sat
| there. So I had to hard-start. and then it happened all over again.
| Finally a boot-choice menu screen came up and I chose last known good.
| What's this about?
| Lady Dungeness
| Crabby, but the Legs are Delicious!
|
|
 
L

Lady Dungeness

Thank you -- I reviewed the articles. I installed the system 3-4 days ago;
I'm trying to get it running again after a HD failure, before I install my
new HD, new CD burner, and new Monitor. It ran well for 2 days, and the
monitor is fine. I'm not getting chkdsk errors anymore -- I canceled out of
it and it hasn't reappeared. But I've started having all kinds of USB
troubles.

One article said that a damaged registry can cause all kinds of problems.
It also said not to use the registry save / destroy / rebuild solution if
the system is OEM. I still do not know if my XP Home is OEM or not. A shop
built it for me, I specified a RETAIL version of XP, they gave me a disk
with a holographic surface and said yes it's retail ... same as retail.

The other article explained how to run a command to find out if the C: drive
is dirty. The answer is NO - C is NOT DIRTY!

If anybody has any other suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

--
Lady Dungeness
Crabby, but Great Legs!


| http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=316506
| Chkdsk Runs Each Time That You Start Your Computer
|
| Check Disk - Disk Checking Runs Upon Boot
| http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_c.htm#cd
|
| How Do I Prevent CHKDSK From Running Every Time My PC Starts
| http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org/how_do_i_prevent_chkdsk_from_run.htm
| --
| ====================================
| TaurArian [MS-MVP] 2005-2007 - Australia
| ====================================
| How to make a good post: http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
| Defending your machine: http://defendingyourmachine2.blogspot.com/
| http://taurarian.mvps.org/index.htm
|
|
|
| || Wincows MCE 2005 here -- I ran chkdsk from the GUI. I rebooted, ate
|| dinner while it checked, and then it rebooted by itself, and started
|| the CHKDSK process over again. I shut it down, and powered up three
|| different times -- each time it started the CHKDSK over again, even
|| though I had 7 seconds to press any key to make it stop. I pressed a
|| key and it stopped. Then it wouldn't go any further -- just sat
|| there. So I had to hard-start. and then it happened all over again.
|| Finally a boot-choice menu screen came up and I chose last known good.
|| What's this about?
|| Lady Dungeness
|| Crabby, but the Legs are Delicious!
||
||
|
|
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:42:26 -0700, "Lady Dungeness"
Thank you -- I reviewed the articles. I installed the system 3-4 days ago;
I'm trying to get it running again after a HD failure, before I install my
new HD, new CD burner, and new Monitor. It ran well for 2 days, and the
monitor is fine. I'm not getting chkdsk errors anymore -- I canceled out of
it and it hasn't reappeared. But I've started having all kinds of USB
troubles.

Generally, primary problems (bad RAM, bad HD) can spawn secondary
damage (file system bit-rot after bad exits, corrupted file content
from bad RAM, lost material from bad sectors).


The first thing to do is to check hardware, in case it wasn't only the
HD that went bad - so I'd look at fans, motherboard capacitors and do
a 24-hour run in MemTest86 with a different boot disk in place (so any
spontaneous reset will be obvious, even if you aren't there to see it)


The second thing I'd do is make sure I'm not waide open to a mass of
ITW direct network exploits, i.e. that:
- I have a firewall enabled
- I am SP2 code base, or SP1 + patches, or SP0 + patches

By "patches", I'm specifically thinking of RPC patch to fix the hole
that Lovesan et al use, and LSASS patch to fix the hole that Sasser et
al use. By June 2007, the bulk of the malware using these exploits
will be working bots, rather than the original milder PoC worms.

Also, if any HD > 137G, you cannot install SP0 (XP "Gold") and you
should upgrade SP1 to SP2 as soon as you can. Some of SP1's code is
not safe > 137G, and that may include the code that writes memory
dumps to disk when the system crashes. Join the dots?


Then I'd minimize bad exits, by killing two dumb-ass duhfaults that
cause sick systems to automatically restart (sticking pins into voodoo
dolls of the devs concerned is optional, but fun).

The settings to change, are:

Start, Settings, Control Panel, System icon, Advanced tab
- Startup and Recovery section, Settings button
- System Failure section, [_] Automatically restart, Apply, OK

Start, Settings, Control Panel, Admin Tools, Services
- scroll down to Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
- Recovery tab; set all 3 drop-downs to "Restart the SERVICE", OK

At least now you can see what STOP error codes you get, etc.

BTW, how did you move the stricken installation from old HD to the new
one? Most partition imaging processes may carry over "bad cluster"
markers with the file system that aren't applicable to the new HD.
One article said that a damaged registry can cause all kinds of problems.

This is true. But what would damage the registry? And more to the
point, is this ongoing damage or just static leftovers from the
previous bad HD?

The only recent registry backups that XP creates on a cyclical basis,
are those in C:\SVI as created by System Restore. I'd harvest those
(all of those) from (say) a Bart CDR boot, before normal use purges
what may be the last good ones, as new Restore Points are created.

See...

http://cquirke.blogspot.com/2006/10/bart-vs-badpoolcaller.html

....for an article that walks (tersely) through the process, and...

http://cquirke.blogspot.com/2006/07/repairing-safe-mode-safeboot.html

....for more on the same sort of process. To learn more about Bart,
you can just Google( Bart PE ) and take it from there.
It also said not to use the registry save / destroy / rebuild solution if
the system is OEM. I still do not know if my XP Home is OEM or not. A shop
built it for me, I specified a RETAIL version of XP, they gave me a disk
with a holographic surface and said yes it's retail ... same as retail.

You can use Nirsoft's Product Key tool to see your XP's product ID and
product key. If the ID is xxxxxxx-OEM-xxxxxxx then it's OEM, but
that's not always a bad thing; generic OEM is pretty much as good as
retail, other than it won't install as an upgrade.

The really sucky OEM distros are those from the big "royalty" OEMs,
who fob users off with "Recovery Disks" or no OS disks at all.

Retail is either very expensive, or crippled in other ways (i.e. the
need for another valid OS license to upgrade from). If I had a client
ask for the full retail pack, I'd ask "Are you sure/nuts?" ;-)
The other article explained how to run a command to find out if the C: drive
is dirty. The answer is NO - C is NOT DIRTY!

C: being "dirty" is just a matter of whether the OS:
- detected a failed sector access -> triggers AutoChk like ChkDsk /R
- detected interrupted file system updates -> AutoChk like ChkDsk /F
- was explicitly set dirty to force one of the above tests

It doesn't say anything about whether your HD and/or file system are
OK or not, and testing file system logic won't pick up corrupted
contents of files that were previously "fixed" or bent through bad RAM
If anybody has any other suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

As above. Suggestions-R-us ;-)


------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Our senses are our UI to reality
 
L

Lady Dungeness

Thank you. When the HD crashed, I took the computer to a tech. He ran all
the tests and said it was only the HD that had gone bad. He rescued most of
my data and saved it to the 2nd HD, and installed Windows Home XP on the 2nd
drive too. I've run the Windows utilities and the HD mfg's utilities and
everything comes up clean.

I'm fairly sure the troubles are USB related. For now, I'd like to know
what settings or tweaks can prevent chkdsk from restarting.

Lady D



message | On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:42:26 -0700, "Lady Dungeness"
|
| >Thank you -- I reviewed the articles. I installed the system 3-4 days
ago;
| >I'm trying to get it running again after a HD failure, before I install
my
| >new HD, new CD burner, and new Monitor. It ran well for 2 days, and the
| >monitor is fine. I'm not getting chkdsk errors anymore -- I canceled out
of
| >it and it hasn't reappeared. But I've started having all kinds of USB
| >troubles.
|
| Generally, primary problems (bad RAM, bad HD) can spawn secondary
| damage (file system bit-rot after bad exits, corrupted file content
| from bad RAM, lost material from bad sectors).
|
|
| The first thing to do is to check hardware, in case it wasn't only the
| HD that went bad - so I'd look at fans, motherboard capacitors and do
| a 24-hour run in MemTest86 with a different boot disk in place (so any
| spontaneous reset will be obvious, even if you aren't there to see it)
|
|
| The second thing I'd do is make sure I'm not waide open to a mass of
| ITW direct network exploits, i.e. that:
| - I have a firewall enabled
| - I am SP2 code base, or SP1 + patches, or SP0 + patches
|
| By "patches", I'm specifically thinking of RPC patch to fix the hole
| that Lovesan et al use, and LSASS patch to fix the hole that Sasser et
| al use. By June 2007, the bulk of the malware using these exploits
| will be working bots, rather than the original milder PoC worms.
|
| Also, if any HD > 137G, you cannot install SP0 (XP "Gold") and you
| should upgrade SP1 to SP2 as soon as you can. Some of SP1's code is
| not safe > 137G, and that may include the code that writes memory
| dumps to disk when the system crashes. Join the dots?
|
|
| Then I'd minimize bad exits, by killing two dumb-ass duhfaults that
| cause sick systems to automatically restart (sticking pins into voodoo
| dolls of the devs concerned is optional, but fun).
|
| The settings to change, are:
|
| Start, Settings, Control Panel, System icon, Advanced tab
| - Startup and Recovery section, Settings button
| - System Failure section, [_] Automatically restart, Apply, OK
|
| Start, Settings, Control Panel, Admin Tools, Services
| - scroll down to Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
| - Recovery tab; set all 3 drop-downs to "Restart the SERVICE", OK
|
| At least now you can see what STOP error codes you get, etc.
|
| BTW, how did you move the stricken installation from old HD to the new
| one? Most partition imaging processes may carry over "bad cluster"
| markers with the file system that aren't applicable to the new HD.
|
| >One article said that a damaged registry can cause all kinds of problems.
|
| This is true. But what would damage the registry? And more to the
| point, is this ongoing damage or just static leftovers from the
| previous bad HD?
|
| The only recent registry backups that XP creates on a cyclical basis,
| are those in C:\SVI as created by System Restore. I'd harvest those
| (all of those) from (say) a Bart CDR boot, before normal use purges
| what may be the last good ones, as new Restore Points are created.
|
| See...
|
| http://cquirke.blogspot.com/2006/10/bart-vs-badpoolcaller.html
|
| ...for an article that walks (tersely) through the process, and...
|
| http://cquirke.blogspot.com/2006/07/repairing-safe-mode-safeboot.html
|
| ...for more on the same sort of process. To learn more about Bart,
| you can just Google( Bart PE ) and take it from there.
|
| >It also said not to use the registry save / destroy / rebuild solution if
| >the system is OEM. I still do not know if my XP Home is OEM or not. A
shop
| >built it for me, I specified a RETAIL version of XP, they gave me a disk
| >with a holographic surface and said yes it's retail ... same as retail.
|
| You can use Nirsoft's Product Key tool to see your XP's product ID and
| product key. If the ID is xxxxxxx-OEM-xxxxxxx then it's OEM, but
| that's not always a bad thing; generic OEM is pretty much as good as
| retail, other than it won't install as an upgrade.
|
| The really sucky OEM distros are those from the big "royalty" OEMs,
| who fob users off with "Recovery Disks" or no OS disks at all.
|
| Retail is either very expensive, or crippled in other ways (i.e. the
| need for another valid OS license to upgrade from). If I had a client
| ask for the full retail pack, I'd ask "Are you sure/nuts?" ;-)
|
| >The other article explained how to run a command to find out if the C:
drive
| >is dirty. The answer is NO - C is NOT DIRTY!
|
| C: being "dirty" is just a matter of whether the OS:
| - detected a failed sector access -> triggers AutoChk like ChkDsk /R
| - detected interrupted file system updates -> AutoChk like ChkDsk /F
| - was explicitly set dirty to force one of the above tests
|
| It doesn't say anything about whether your HD and/or file system are
| OK or not, and testing file system logic won't pick up corrupted
| contents of files that were previously "fixed" or bent through bad RAM
|
| >If anybody has any other suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
|
| As above. Suggestions-R-us ;-)
|
|
|
| >------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
| Our senses are our UI to reality
| >------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:14:37 -0700, "Lady Dungeness"
Thank you. When the HD crashed, I took the computer to a tech. He ran all
the tests and said it was only the HD that had gone bad. He rescued most of
my data and saved it to the 2nd HD, and installed Windows Home XP on the 2nd
drive too. I've run the Windows utilities and the HD mfg's utilities and
everything comes up clean.

OK. Some Qs at this point:
- what Service Pack level is your XP installation?
- how big are the physical hard drives?
- is the defective HD still in the system?
I'm fairly sure the troubles are USB related. For now, I'd like to know
what settings or tweaks can prevent chkdsk from restarting.

I'm having trouble typing "ChkDsk" and "USB" together - especially in
the context of ChkDsk running automatically on startup, which is
actually the slightly different AutoChk utility.

Do you have USB storage permanently attached at boot, and if so, is
this what the OS is automatically trying to "ChkDsk"?

Or do you get a prompt to "scan for errors" when you insert USB
storage when the OS is up and running? That's common in Vista, but I
haven't seen that behavior in XP.

Or are there other USB issues?

If there are other USB issues, then the first thing I'd do is take out
any passive (unpowered) hubs you may be using, in case power
insufficiency is an issue. If your USB devices "don't need extra
power" but have a power socket, give them the extra power they claim
they "don't need" but allow to be applied.

The next thing I'd so is try one device from all available USB
sockets. If some sockets don't work, then (in the case of front case
or back-strip sockets) checked they are connected correctly inside the
case, and also look at the USB's socket itself, to see if it is
damaged (they damage easily).

The above should take care of most problems with "bad device", "device
detected but unknown type", "device detected but won't work" and the
complete absence of detection. It will leave you with "This device
could run faster...", which seems to be a generic unfixed XP bug.


-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Tip Of The Day:
To disable the 'Tip of the Day' feature...
 
L

Lady Dungeness

Answers Inline:
message | On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:14:37 -0700, "Lady Dungeness"
|
| >Thank you. When the HD crashed, I took the computer to a tech. He ran
all
| >the tests and said it was only the HD that had gone bad. He rescued most
of
| >my data and saved it to the 2nd HD, and installed Windows Home XP on the
2nd
| >drive too. I've run the Windows utilities and the HD mfg's utilities and
| >everything comes up clean.
|
| OK. Some Qs at this point:
| - what Service Pack level is your XP installation?
| - how big are the physical hard drives?
| - is the defective HD still in the system?

** XP Home SP3 fully patched to date
** Internal HD = 15 Gig; external USB = 300 Gig
** Defective HD is NOT in the system
|
| >I'm fairly sure the troubles are USB related. For now, I'd like to know
| >what settings or tweaks can prevent chkdsk from restarting.
|
| I'm having trouble typing "ChkDsk" and "USB" together - especially in
| the context of ChkDsk running automatically on startup, which is
| actually the slightly different AutoChk utility.
|
| Do you have USB storage permanently attached at boot, and if so, is
| this what the OS is automatically trying to "ChkDsk"?

** USB storage is permanently attached at boot
** When I do chkdsk, first I UNPLUG the USB storage device
** The OS is not trying to ChkDsk on the external HD; it is doing ChkDsk
on the internal 15 Gig HD; when it reboots/loops to repeat ChkDsk, it is
still working on the internal 15 Gig HD -- which is Drive C:/

| Or do you get a prompt to "scan for errors" when you insert USB
| storage when the OS is up and running? That's common in Vista, but I
| haven't seen that behavior in XP.
** Nope. no such prompt

| Or are there other USB issues?
** Occasionally the external USB drive will not be recognized, but the
light will pulsate; at those times, the mouse and keyboard also
intermittently lose connectivity. All other non-USB devices (monitor, etc.)
are stable.

| If there are other USB issues, then the first thing I'd do is take out
| any passive (unpowered) hubs you may be using, in case power
| insufficiency is an issue. If your USB devices "don't need extra
| power" but have a power socket, give them the extra power they claim
| they "don't need" but allow to be applied.
** I disconnected the 7-port USB hub as soon as this started. All USB
devices are now plugged directly into the computer board inside the chassis.
All USB have been and remain separately connected to the power supply.

| The next thing I'd so is try one device from all available USB
| sockets. If some sockets don't work, then (in the case of front case
| or back-strip sockets) checked they are connected correctly inside the
| case, and also look at the USB's socket itself, to see if it is
| damaged (they damage easily).
** I'll give that a try tomorrow. I suspect some of the sockets are not
working properly. Damaged easily? What should I look for? These USB hubs
have barely been used.

| The above should take care of most problems with "bad device", "device
| detected but unknown type", "device detected but won't work" and the
| complete absence of detection. It will leave you with "This device
| could run faster...", which seems to be a generic unfixed XP bug.
** I'd be happy with the "you can run faster" messages; they don't bug
me. I just need steady and stable USB connectivity. I do not understand
USB. Thank you for your help.

Lady D

| >-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
| Tip Of The Day:
| To disable the 'Tip of the Day' feature...
| >-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
 
C

cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)

cquirke wrote in
| On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:14:37 -0700, "Lady Dungeness"
| >HD crashed, I took the computer to a tech. He ran
| >tests and said it was only the HD that had gone bad.
| >He rescued most of my data and saved it to the 2nd
| >HD, and installed Windows Home XP on the 2nd drive too.
| OK. Some Qs at this point:
| - what Service Pack level is your XP installation?
| - how big are the physical hard drives?
| - is the defective HD still in the system?

** XP Home SP3 fully patched to date

SP3's still in beta, so is that a typo for SP2 plus subsequent patches
that will be rolled into SP3 (hence labelled as such) or are you
testing SP3? Or is it Win2000 SP3 (please say it isn't :-/ )

In any case, XP SP2 or later is OK > 137G, so that's good
** Internal HD = 15 Gig; external USB = 300 Gig

OK. 15G is small for a physical HD, and will be slow, whereas the
300G may get hot and sweaty in an external box. I'd be tempted to
swap 'em, though not while things are stormy.

Or is the 15G a 15G partition on a larger physical HD?
** Defective HD is NOT in the system

Good. Was the 15G your old 2nd HD, then?
| >I'm fairly sure the troubles are USB related. For now, I'd like to know
| >what settings or tweaks can prevent chkdsk from restarting.
| I'm having trouble typing "ChkDsk" and "USB" together - especially in
| the context of ChkDsk running automatically on startup, which is
| actually the slightly different AutoChk utility.
|
| Do you have USB storage permanently attached at boot, and if so, is
| this what the OS is automatically trying to "ChkDsk"?

** USB storage is permanently attached at boot

Oh, OK; no longer a mystery :)
** When I do chkdsk, first I UNPLUG the USB storage device

OK. Do you do the "safe to remove" click-dance when removing the
external 300G, or is it removed while PC is off?
** The OS is not trying to ChkDsk on the external HD; it is doing ChkDsk
on the internal 15 Gig HD; when it reboots/loops to repeat ChkDsk, it is
still working on the internal 15 Gig HD -- which is Drive C:/

OK; thanks for pinning that down. So the OS is on the 15G, which was
your original 2nd HD (and is now your first), with the 300G was...
always around as a second HD? New? Where the data went?

Sorry so many Qs, but I need to get these things straight else etc.
| Or do you get a prompt to "scan for errors" when you insert USB
| storage when the OS is up and running? That's common in Vista, but I
| haven't seen that behavior in XP.
** Nope. no such prompt

OK, that's good.
| Or are there other USB issues?
** Occasionally the external USB drive will not be recognized, but the
light will pulsate; at those times, the mouse and keyboard also
intermittently lose connectivity. All other non-USB devices (monitor, etc.)
are stable.

Hmm... that's not wonderfully reassuring, I must say. Tell me more
about your USB setup (unless you've already answered later in the post
I'm reading); how many devices, what are they, where are they
connected,. are there and extension leads or hubs involved, etc.?
| If there are other USB issues, then the first thing I'd do is take out
| any passive (unpowered) hubs you may be using, in case power
| insufficiency is an issue.
** I disconnected the 7-port USB hub as soon as this started. All USB
devices are now plugged directly into the computer board inside the chassis.
All USB have been and remain separately connected to the power supply.

Cool; that seems to rule out those problems.
| The next thing I'd so is try one device from all available USB
| sockets. If some sockets don't work, then (in the case of front case
| or back-strip sockets) checked they are connected correctly inside the
| case, and also look at the USB's socket itself, to see if it is
| damaged (they damage easily).
** I'll give that a try tomorrow. I suspect some of the sockets are not
working properly. Damaged easily? What should I look for? These USB hubs
have barely been used.

My eyes aren't so good anymore, so I take a digital macro pic and then
magnify that up in the viewfinder. There are some copper strips that
hook into the end of the plastic that they rest on; if that plastic
breaks away, or the ends pop out, bad times follow.

If you see some copper strips appear to end shorter than others, that
may be normal, i.e. a way to control which contacts are made first,
and broken last on removal. Hot pluggability may need that.

Also, try running just the HD with no other devices, in case the HD is
fine, but some other device is flooding the USB and blocking traffic.

Are your keyboard and mouse on USB, too?
| The above should take care of most problems with "bad device", "device
| detected but unknown type", "device detected but won't work" and the
| complete absence of detection. It will leave you with "This device
| could run faster...", which seems to be a generic unfixed XP bug.
** I'd be happy with the "you can run faster" messages; they don't bug
me. I just need steady and stable USB connectivity.

Yup, especially when the HD's dangling off there as well.
I do not understand USB. Thank you for your help.

It's a pleasure!

If the ChkDsk (or rather, spontaneous AutoChk on booting into Windows)
is always on the non-USB HD, maybe USB isn't part of the picture.

I'm still missing the connection between ChkDsk'ing a HD not on USB,
and USB, unless there's confusion about what HD is which at boot time
(e.g. if CMOS sets USB HDs to boot before IDE/S-ATA ones).

Else you may (in theory) see this...
- you unplug or power off external HD "badly"
- that HD is left with dirty bit set
- the HD's "dirty flag" is seen at boot time
- but for some reason, XP checks the other, non-USB, HD

AutoChk may run in response to three things:
- after a bad exit that leaves the "dirty" bit flag set
- after setting that bit, e.g. "can't ChkDsk C:, do on next start?"
- after a session in which disk failures were noted

The last is the Big Worry, and happens irrespective of proper
shutdowns etc. The AutoChk would normally do a surface scan, which
could take a very long time indeed.
 

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