Can't Boot - Password Protected

[roger]

A friend gave me a Toshiba Satellite A85-S1072, and said if I can get
the durned thing to boot I can have it. He said his son set the
password in the BIOS, and promptly forgot it. Now it won't boot until
the correct password is entered of course.

Anyhoo, I have a Hiren's Boot CD (v15.2) with a menu item that
overrides such passwords, one that I have used before to get by the
same problem on an old desktop I had. I thought I could do it again,
but no - the laptop will not boot from the disk and still locks on the
password requirement. I cannot enter the BIOS either.

Do I have anything I can do here?

Thanks

Big Fred

 

[Sean L]

A friend gave me a Toshiba Satellite A85-S1072, and said if I can get
the durned thing to boot I can have it. He said his son set the
password in the BIOS, and promptly forgot it. Now it won't boot until
the correct password is entered of course.

Anyhoo, I have a Hiren's Boot CD (v15.2) with a menu item that
overrides such passwords, one that I have used before to get by the
same problem on an old desktop I had. I thought I could do it again,
but no - the laptop will not boot from the disk and still locks on the
password requirement. I cannot enter the BIOS either.

Do I have anything I can do here?

_________________________________________________

http://www.wikihow.com/Reset-Your-BIOS

 

[John McGaw]

A friend gave me a Toshiba Satellite A85-S1072, and said if I can get
the durned thing to boot I can have it. He said his son set the
password in the BIOS, and promptly forgot it. Now it won't boot until
the correct password is entered of course.

Anyhoo, I have a Hiren's Boot CD (v15.2) with a menu item that
overrides such passwords, one that I have used before to get by the
same problem on an old desktop I had. I thought I could do it again,
but no - the laptop will not boot from the disk and still locks on the
password requirement. I cannot enter the BIOS either.

Do I have anything I can do here?

Thanks

Big Fred

If you Google you will find numerous solutions to defeating various Toshiba
Satellite BIOS password setups. Most likely one of them will be close
enough to what you have to allow you to make some progress. Try searching
for "remove bios password Toshiba satellite" as a starting point.

 

[Paul]

If you Google you will find numerous solutions to defeating various
Toshiba Satellite BIOS password setups. Most likely one of them will be
close enough to what you have to allow you to make some progress. Try
searching for "remove bios password Toshiba satellite" as a starting point.

This page, seems to be a bunch of separate threads all thrown together.

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/18140/

Rather than guess at it, or even contemplate which of
those ideas is complete bullshit, the best thing
to do is contact a Toshiba Service Center, and see
if you can trick them into confirming which of
those ideas works with the A85. Some ideas can be
eliminated, purely because that particular laptop
doesn't have the necessary interfaces.

If the Service Center was near enough, and the fee they
wanted to fix it low enough, maybe you could even drive
over and let them have a shot at it.

That thread also mentions, for one particular problem,
Toshiba will fix it for free. Apparently there is a
model of laptop, where the machine "sets a password
on its own". If it is that problem, they don't charge
for it.

Paul

 

[VanguardLH]

Toshiba Satellite A85-S107

Remove the CMOS battery. How long before the RTC doesn't have a charge
depends on circuit design. 20 minutes might be enough; however, the
longest that I've seen is about 3 days. Since you can't use it now, the
time to discharge really isn't important. After enough time to allow
discharge, replace the battery and boot to go into BIOS and reset to
defaults.

Sounds easy but getting at the CMOS battery in a clip (and hopefully not
soldered) on the motherboard can be very difficult. For some laptops,
the entire thing has to get dismantled, like removing the battery and
hard disk, the backside, keyboard, and pretty much the whole thing.
http://www.ehow.com/way_5602273_toshiba-a85_s107-disassembly-instructions.html
is an extremely simplistic description. You can watch the video at

(go the 00:40 timemark to
skip their ad) but only to get a feel for what it takes since it
probably isn't your particular model. Some have the battery on the top
side so they can't give an access panel since the keyboard is there;
however, many if not most don't provide a compartment cover on the
backside of the case even when the battery is on that side of the
motherboard. I read in a newsgroup where one guy decides to use a
dremel with a cutting blade to cut through the case (after he spent
awhile researching just where the battery would be) to get at the
battery. He then hot-glued a plastic card over the hole to cover it (so
he could later use a heatgun if it turned out to be a new but weak
battery he put in). That only works if the battery is on the bottom
side of the motherboard. You'll need to make sure the cutting blade
only cuts to about a 1/8" depth and increase if needed to make sure you
don't cut into the electrical components.

In the video at timemark 05:20, I couldn't see a coin cell battery on
the motherboard. you won't see the CMOS battery so it is on the
bottomside of the motherboard which would require full disassembly to
get at it or cutting a hole into the case. At 05:48, the guy flips the
mobo over. At 05:54, it might be the round silvery blob at the top
right corner of the flipped over mobo.

If you're really lucky, the CMOS battery is accessible by removing on of
teh provided cover plates on the bottom of the case. In the video at

, you simply remove the cover
plate that is used to access and replace the hard drive. While that
video is for a Toshiba Satellite, it is not for your model. Twould be
easy just to check if it is that easy to replace the battery.

Ask a computer shop how much they would charge to replace the battery
(and have them remove it long enough to effect a reset and then put in a
new battery). Give them the make and model and the job is to replace
the CMOS battery and they should be able to give you a price quote over
the phone. What they charge will determine if the laptop is of enough
value to you to foot that expense.

 

[roger]

This page, seems to be a bunch of separate threads all thrown together.

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/18140/

Rather than guess at it, or even contemplate which of
those ideas is complete bullshit, the best thing
to do is contact a Toshiba Service Center, and see
if you can trick them into confirming which of
those ideas works with the A85. Some ideas can be
eliminated, purely because that particular laptop
doesn't have the necessary interfaces.

If the Service Center was near enough, and the fee they
wanted to fix it low enough, maybe you could even drive
over and let them have a shot at it.

That thread also mentions, for one particular problem,
Toshiba will fix it for free. Apparently there is a
model of laptop, where the machine "sets a password
on its own". If it is that problem, they don't charge
for it.

Paul

So far I have watched four Youtube tutorials describing how to cross
the so-called XXXB500 solder-points while powering up. I have not
been able to find same on my Satellite A85 (either near the hard
drive or memory slots), so I guess I'll have to find someone smarter
than I or give it up.

Thanks

Big Fred

 

[roger]

Remove the CMOS battery. How long before the RTC doesn't have a charge
depends on circuit design. 20 minutes might be enough; however, the
longest that I've seen is about 3 days. Since you can't use it now, the
time to discharge really isn't important. After enough time to allow
discharge, replace the battery and boot to go into BIOS and reset to
defaults.

Sounds easy but getting at the CMOS battery in a clip (and hopefully not
soldered) on the motherboard can be very difficult. For some laptops,
the entire thing has to get dismantled, like removing the battery and
hard disk, the backside, keyboard, and pretty much the whole thing.
http://www.ehow.com/way_5602273_toshiba-a85_s107-disassembly-instructions.html
is an extremely simplistic description. You can watch the video at

(go the 00:40 timemark to
skip their ad) but only to get a feel for what it takes since it
probably isn't your particular model. Some have the battery on the top
side so they can't give an access panel since the keyboard is there;
however, many if not most don't provide a compartment cover on the
backside of the case even when the battery is on that side of the
motherboard. I read in a newsgroup where one guy decides to use a
dremel with a cutting blade to cut through the case (after he spent
awhile researching just where the battery would be) to get at the
battery. He then hot-glued a plastic card over the hole to cover it (so
he could later use a heatgun if it turned out to be a new but weak
battery he put in). That only works if the battery is on the bottom
side of the motherboard. You'll need to make sure the cutting blade
only cuts to about a 1/8" depth and increase if needed to make sure you
don't cut into the electrical components.

In the video at timemark 05:20, I couldn't see a coin cell battery on
the motherboard. you won't see the CMOS battery so it is on the
bottomside of the motherboard which would require full disassembly to
get at it or cutting a hole into the case. At 05:48, the guy flips the
mobo over. At 05:54, it might be the round silvery blob at the top
right corner of the flipped over mobo.

If you're really lucky, the CMOS battery is accessible by removing on of
teh provided cover plates on the bottom of the case. In the video at

, you simply remove the cover
plate that is used to access and replace the hard drive. While that
video is for a Toshiba Satellite, it is not for your model. Twould be
easy just to check if it is that easy to replace the battery.

Ask a computer shop how much they would charge to replace the battery
(and have them remove it long enough to effect a reset and then put in a
new battery). Give them the make and model and the job is to replace
the CMOS battery and they should be able to give you a price quote over
the phone. What they charge will determine if the laptop is of enough
value to you to foot that expense.

The one time I tried to replace a CMOS battery in a laptop, I couldn't
get the laptop back together again. So, I don't want to dismantle
this laptop in order to remove the CMOS password by removing/replacing
that battery. Too bad, because I can't find the solder point (B500)
in order to ground it to reset the password. I don't think this
Satellite A85-S1072 has it for some reason.

So I guess the trash can will be its new home.

Thanks all -

Big Fred

 

[Paul]

The one time I tried to replace a CMOS battery in a laptop, I couldn't
get the laptop back together again. So, I don't want to dismantle
this laptop in order to remove the CMOS password by removing/replacing
that battery. Too bad, because I can't find the solder point (B500)
in order to ground it to reset the password. I don't think this
Satellite A85-S1072 has it for some reason.

So I guess the trash can will be its new home.

Thanks all -

Big Fred

There are plenty of things you can do besides "trash".
Two examples.

1) Part out unit. Sell the LCD display as a replacement
part for an A85 user who dropped their laptop. Same
goes for the plastic chassis. Or the power adapter.

2) Donate laptop to local organization that recycles
units for low income users. You can clean the hard
drive before donating it (DBAN, slave to a desktop).
They'll know how to put an OS on it.

*******

Irisvista has a take-apart for the A85. Doesn't help though.
Can't see under the DIMM.

http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptops/Toshiba-Satellite-A85/replace-laptop-memory-2.htm

http://www.irisvista.com/tech/laptops/Toshiba-Satellite-A85/big/Toshiba-Satellite-A85-15.jpg

I think the chip labeled "IXP" from ATI, that could be
a Southbridge. And if there was a 2K EEPROM with the
password, it would be somewhere in the neighborhood.
Trouble is, a number of MOSFETs are in eight pin
DIP packs, and it would be easy to confuse those
(as part of the power conversion), for a password
EEPROM. And even if you locate the chip, you would
need a way to program it, and a programmer. This is
in lieu of figuring out one of the "trick" ways
of reloading it with an empty password.

HTH,
Paul

 

[roger]

I have an A80/A85 service manual (PDF 7.74MB), if you think it would help I
could upload it somewhere, think it's too big to send as an attachment.

Kenny Cargill

Would you mind?
I wud appreciate it.
Just maybe it would help me deal with this.

Thanks

Big Fred

 

[VanguardLH]

Will need a valid e-mail address for Yousendit, the download link will be
sent to that address. Zipped it and reduced it to 5.3MB.

http://www.manualsonline.com/

They seem to allow free online storage of manuals they claim are then
available for free viewing or download. They show up in online searches
when looking for manuals. I doubt a Yousendit file would show up. I
suspect you have to register at the site to allow uploading files to
them.

 

[roger]

Can U try Imageshack?

http://www.imageshack.us/

Thanks

BF

 

[Paul]

I have an A80/A85 service manual (PDF 7.74MB), if you think it would
help I could upload it somewhere, think it's too big to send as an
attachment.

Kenny Cargill

You could segment the file, and send it as multiple emails.
Find a ZIP program that has controllable segment size,
and save the PDF as an archive stored in multiple segments.

It's the same sort of idea, when a ZIP file saves an archive
as a series of floppies. It basically chops the archive up
into defined pieces. But you can also get the segments dumped
as individual files.

The recipient then assembles all the segments in a common folder,
uses an unzip program, and the archive (single file in this
case) can be restored.

*******

Another possibility, is to post the original download file name
and/or md5sum, and perhaps there are other copies floating around
on the net.

Paul

 

[roger]

Imageshack appears to be for images only and I already have a Yousendit
account!
I got this as part of a collection of manuals on a torrent site. The file
name is "Service.manual.for.laptop.collection" , don't want to post direct
link but copy and paste into torrent search. Be warned its very big, 8.4GB,
but has hundreds of laptop manuals.

Kenny Cargill

Sorry

I forgot about that.

Big Fred

 

[roger]

The one time I tried to replace a CMOS battery in a laptop, I couldn't
get the laptop back together again.

That's why I mentioned getting a cost quote from a local computer repair
shop so you could determine if it was worth getting the problem fixed.

Too bad, because I can't find the solder point (B500)
in order to ground it to reset the password.

While desktop mobos have a 2-pin header to short to clear the CMOS table
(the modified copied of the BIOS from the EEPROM), I'm not sure laptops
even bother with a header or even the solder pads for the pins to
provide a CMOS clear function. That's why most times when looking up
how to do this for a laptop that the procedure is described as removing
the CMOS battery for awhile to do the clear.

So I guess the trash can will be its new home.

A call to a local computer repair shop is free. Is it worth $50 to have
a working laptop? I found an old laptop quite valuable when my desktop
died (because an electrolytic capacitor in the PSU for its 5V line got
pregnant so the PSU had to be replaced but it takes time for a new one
to arrive). If you already have multiple PCs (desktops, notebooks,
mobile devices) that can do the Net (so you can continue doing e-mail
and web surfing) then it might not be worth repairing an old desktop.
However, if you have only one desktop PC, even an ancient computer is
still capable of doing e-mail and even handle most web surfing (as long
as the old PC has a recent enough web browser version to handle what
most web sites consider a base level for functionality). Prior to this
last desktop PC whose PSU died, the prior one got fried by a bad PSU
(the CPU regulator caps on the mobo got pregnant having to overwork
because of a weakly regulated PSU output) and the old laptop became my
only computer over a span of several months until I could afford to get
a new one.

Consider using the old Toshiba as a backup computer. Even if its
battery is ancient and unusable (figure after 3 years they need to be
replaced), it is still usable on A/C power.

If you really intent to trash the laptop, instead give it to the
Goodwill or a Thrift shop with a note that the BIOS system password is
unknown and needs to be cleared to use the hardware. Someone else migh
tbe willing to take apart the laptop or cut out an access hole to remove
the CMOS battery to reset the [CMOS copy of the] BIOS.

Lastly, consider selling it off at eBay. Some folks will buy dead or
otherwise unusable laptops so you can still make some money of what you
can't or won't use. Some folks want the parts, are willing to fix the
item, or need some hardware to include with an OEM license of software
so the license is valid. Just be careful about the shipping cost you
charge at eBay. You don't want to ask too little and have to fork out
the difference but you don't want to overcharge so many potential buyers
walk away from your auction. Lastly, consider putting it on Craigslist
whether for a small cost or for free. Free stuff gets a lot of
attention at Craigslist. Someone else might be willing to do the
repair, especially since the CMOS coin cell battery should get replaced
every 5 years in any computer.

Ref my Satelite A85-S1072.
Oh do I wish I could locate the solder bubbles to short to remove the
dang CMOS password! I have looked and looked with a light and mag
glass - to no avail. Either it is not in the memory area, or I am
just blind. Probably the latter. Sure would be a lot simpler than
opening up access to the MOBO battery/

Oh well, thanks for all your helps.

Big Fred

 

[Paul]

Ref my Satelite A85-S1072.
Oh do I wish I could locate the solder bubbles to short to remove the
dang CMOS password! I have looked and looked with a light and mag
glass - to no avail. Either it is not in the memory area, or I am
just blind. Probably the latter. Sure would be a lot simpler than
opening up access to the MOBO battery/

Oh well, thanks for all your helps.

Big Fred

I've been all over the motherboard pictures here (from Ebay),
and I can't see a Clear CMOS pad anywhere.

http://imageshack.us/a/img443/7854/330s.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7194/hqh8.jpg

In the first picture, the "blue circle" below the U-shaped
hole for the blower, is the CMOS battery. The three-legged
transistor-like thing just below the battery, could be
the ORing diode for 3VSB for the CMOS. There is a resistor
to the left, and a capacitor to the right. These could all
be part of the CMOS powering.

But as I examine the board radially from that point, looking
outwards from there for solder points, I'm finding... nothing.

You would need a much higher resolution picture than that,
to be able to read everything on the silk screen. Or check
for "K45" or the like, printed on the top of that three-legged
transistor.

The battery normally has a 1K ohm resistor in series with it,
which prevents a dead short from harming the battery. When the
battery power gets to the three-legged device, it is limited
to 3V/1K = 3mA or less of current. The capacitor on the
output leg of the ORing diode, reduces the impedance to
transients, so that the 1K ohm resistor doesn't make the
circuit behavior flaky. And those are the kinds of components
I look for near the CMOS battery. But no solder
points are evident anywhere around there.

The big IXP150 chip, is the Southbridge. And the CMOS RAM
(used for consumer grade laptop password storage), is kept
in there. So the feed from the CMOS battery, is pretty close
to the IXP150, and there really isn't a good reason for
associated circuitry to snake all over the circuit board.

I also don't see anything that looks like a 2K EEPROM on there
(which would store the password on a business-class laptop).
There are lots of eight-legged chips, but they're MOSFETs
for power conversion. Low power MOSFETs come in packages
like that, as a space saving means of doing switching converter
circuits.

Paul

 

[Paul]

I've been all over the motherboard pictures here (from Ebay),
and I can't see a Clear CMOS pad anywhere.

http://imageshack.us/a/img443/7854/330s.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img585/7194/hqh8.jpg

Got the manual. (Now, before you get excited, the
so-called service manual is crap.) Lucky for
me, I didn't need the worlds biggest torrent to
get it.

"satellite a80 a85.pdf"
8,116,989 bytes
MD5SUM = 2d09928fe11d8a23f34c7850a7d1553d

Matches the checksum here.

http://www.nodevice.com/manual/satellite-a85/get89134.html

The download (free) link is here. Download speed was
around 7KB/sec so this is likely a home server setup
of some sort. It didn't seem to be a high bandwidth connection.
Took maybe 15 minutes.

http://bobobo.ru/notebook/toshiba/satellite a80 a85.pdf

*******

The only good news, is the CMOS battery type.

RTC battery Lithium 3.3 V 15 mAh

Status Time
------ ----
Charging Time (power on) About 24 hours
Data preservation period (full charge) 1 month

That means, if you unplug the AC adapter, remove the
battery pack, the clock starts ticking on the battery.
After one month, it should be flat.

Notice they call it an RTC battery. CMOS is not mentioned.
Does that mean a 2K EEPROM holds the password ? Perhaps.

Another strange thing. Normally the Southbridge would
implement the RTC (32KHz digital clock) as well as
the 256 byte CMOS memory array. They would sit in
the CMOS well of the Southbridge silicon die, and
run off 3.0V.

Instead, in this case the ENE brand KB910 chip,
has an RTC (real time clock) inside it. And it has
a 32KHz crystal. That means the KB910 (could) keep
the time, and the BIOS fetches the time via the LPC bus.

What does that means for the Southbridge ?
I haven't a clue. Do they use the CMOS RAM in it, or not ?
With the lack of the CMOS jumper in evidence,
I'm flip-flopping back to the 2K EEPROM
theory.

*******

And the manual is careful to skirt the issue
entirely. While they coyly refer to

BIOS
Password protection (System)

there is no further input on the topic.

Would the password be stored in the BIOS chip ?
It could be, but there is no tradition of
doing that, that I'm aware of. The BIOS chip is
soldered to the motherboard, so you couldn't even
send it to badflash.com and have it reflashed.

Now, if the information isn't in the "service manual",
what kind of "sooper secret doc" has the details ?

It's a good thing I didn't go for the huge
torrent, as I'd be pissed if I waited all that
time for the huge collection of manuals, and
this manual turned out to be a "dud". Imagine
if you were a Toshiba ASP, and you paid for
a piece of crap like that ?

Paul

 

[roger]

Usually two mobo pins with a jumper one can remove to kill the
password. Dell does that. On its desktops anyway. Toshiba is making
life difficult here.

Got the manual. (Now, before you get excited, the
so-called service manual is crap.) Lucky for
me, I didn't need the worlds biggest torrent to
get it.

"satellite a80 a85.pdf"
8,116,989 bytes
MD5SUM = 2d09928fe11d8a23f34c7850a7d1553d

Matches the checksum here.

http://www.nodevice.com/manual/satellite-a85/get89134.html

The download (free) link is here. Download speed was
around 7KB/sec so this is likely a home server setup
of some sort. It didn't seem to be a high bandwidth connection.
Took maybe 15 minutes.

http://bobobo.ru/notebook/toshiba/satellite a80 a85.pdf

Interesting - my download took only 1/2 min. I will keep that pdf.
Anyway thank you muchly for your work, which you must really love
because you are always full of info and ar always quick to seek
answers to help. For all of which I do thank you.

I see the manual agrees with you on page 28 (of 151) thus:

The RTC battery provides power to keep the current date, time and
other setup information in memory while the computer is turned off.
The table in my copy agrees with yours and lists the charging time
and data preservation period of the RTC battery. The RTC battery is
charged by the adaptor or main battery, while the computer is powered
on.
Status
Time
Charging Time (power on)
About 24 hours
Data preservation period (full charge)
1 month


If nothing else, I can put the thing on a shelf for a month or so just
to see if the battery is still charged, and if not, whether the BIOS
password still exists. That's as good as removing the battery, but a
whole lot better and safer than my opening up the case. For sure.

*******

The only good news, is the CMOS battery type.

RTC battery Lithium 3.3 V 15 mAh

Status Time
------ ----
Charging Time (power on) About 24 hours
Data preservation period (full charge) 1 month

That means, if you unplug the AC adapter, remove the
battery pack, the clock starts ticking on the battery.
After one month, it should be flat.

Notice they call it an RTC battery. CMOS is not mentioned.
Does that mean a 2K EEPROM holds the password ? Perhaps.

Another strange thing. Normally the Southbridge would
implement the RTC (32KHz digital clock) as well as
the 256 byte CMOS memory array. They would sit in
the CMOS well of the Southbridge silicon die, and
run off 3.0V.

Instead, in this case the ENE brand KB910 chip,
has an RTC (real time clock) inside it. And it has
a 32KHz crystal. That means the KB910 (could) keep
the time, and the BIOS fetches the time via the LPC bus.

What does that means for the Southbridge ?
I haven't a clue. Do they use the CMOS RAM in it, or not ?
With the lack of the CMOS jumper in evidence,
I'm flip-flopping back to the 2K EEPROM
theory.

*******

And the manual is careful to skirt the issue
entirely. While they coyly refer to

BIOS
Password protection (System)

there is no further input on the topic.

Would the password be stored in the BIOS chip ?
It could be, but there is no tradition of
doing that, that I'm aware of. The BIOS chip is
soldered to the motherboard, so you couldn't even
send it to badflash.com and have it reflashed.

Now, if the information isn't in the "service manual",
what kind of "sooper secret doc" has the details ?

It's a good thing I didn't go for the huge
torrent, as I'd be pissed if I waited all that
time for the huge collection of manuals, and
this manual turned out to be a "dud". Imagine
if you were a Toshiba ASP, and you paid for
a piece of crap like that ?

Good point.


Thanks again

Big Fred

 

[Paul]

Good point.


Thanks again

Big Fred

I just can't believe a maintenance manual
doesn't address the password implementation.

The design isn't exactly standard. Normally the Southbridge
(IXP150 in this case), would perform both the RTC and CMOS
functions.

I was hoping the diagrams of the motherboard layout in the
maintenance manual, would have an entry for a "CMOS clear
solder bumps", but there is nothing there. If such a
beast were to exist, it should be on the solder side of
the motherboard, and in the area exposed when the bottom
cover is off the RAM area.

Paul