Canon Pixma IP4000 cartridge query

[PC Medic]

No point in counting dots with a prism on every cartridge. ALL cartridges
(any brand) that I've ever used, have always had the prism
(just plastic, aint' it?).

Certainly is and were you aware of how the printer functions you would know
that.
You have of course noticed two seperate chambers in these cartridges have
you not? Perhaps you would care to explain your design in how the printer
will not waste the significant amount of ink in the filter side of the
cartridge simply because the prism in the liquid only chamber is now
exposed?

And if ALL your cartridges have prisms, you are buying genuine Canon inks or
refills, not different brand cartridges, just different brand ink inside.

I don't know if it stops printing. I doubt it. I've never heard anyone
in this group mention that before.

I assure you that if you go to print and the ink is empty the printer status
monitor should pop-up a window showing that an ink is empty. Now of course
you can force it to start again, but would not be advisable.

The large black is only used for text, the smaller for photos.

So you word it differently... does not change what I stated.
We could get technical and say BCI-3eBk is for text and BCI6Bk is for
photos.
But then that would not be 100% accurate either as there are exceptions
based on application, and media type setting in driver.

A bit? Two complete sets cost the same as an iP4000 in Canada. I can
refill for $5 a set.

Now wait, are you refilling or buying 3rd party cartridges. Lets keep your
story straight.
I am not going into the whole cost analysis thing. It has been covered too
many times in this and other forums.

The difference, if there is one, depending on brand used, is negligible.
Regular paper costs almost nothing. Even my best photo paper can be had
for an estimated 7 cents a 4x6 sheet, and the ink costs nothing.

Negligible to you perhaps. I can assure you it is significant to others.

Yes, they do. No cartridge dealer would (or should) be so stupid as sell
cartridges without the all important prism in protecting the print head
(printing without ink can burn the print head, so I hear). I doubt any
dealers want the responsibility of burning their customers' printers.

I see these 3rd party carts all the time without the prism. So your
statement is blatently incorrect. You may want to be sure you are not
confusing ink with cartridges also.

Easiest cartridges to fill and little or no worries about air bubbles
blocking flow after you've filled them. I've never, never, ever, had a
cartridge that wouldn't flow right off the bat. Also, these cartridges
should never leak from after refilling like the typical Lexmark and HP
cartridges. If they do leak from the exit hole, you haven't sealed the
fill hole properly. Simple as that.

And others have not been so lucky as you. Note I said it is 'often
successful" as unlike you I am aware there are two sides to this issue.
While they should flow, they do not always, while they should not leak, they
sometimes do.

Not true. There is no real wrong way of filling. As long as you manage
to fill the suggested chamber with ink and seal it air tight after,
that's the whole 'ball game'. That's ALL you need to know. Simply follow
the given instructions (or choose your own from the internet) and fill
with quality refill ink specifically made for your printer type, never
anything labeled "universal" or "works in all printers". These are risky
and can possibly trash your print head, or simply give unsatisfactory
printouts. My preference is any dealer that sells ink made by Formulabs.

-Taliesyn

You contradict yourself here, so I will not add to it.

 

[PC Medic]

If your 'compatibles' have the prism then they are 'Refills' not
compatibles
as the cartridge design with the prism is patented by Canon and not
licensed
to anyone.

there are carts with modified design to sidestep the patent issue[/QUOTE]

I have yet to see these, care to name a brand so I can check them out?

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

If your 'compatibles' have the prism then they are 'Refills' not compatibles
as the cartridge design with the prism is patented by Canon and not licensed
to anyone. I also am giving no more credit than is due with regards to the
iP4000 ink level monitoring. I know you "don't think it counts dots" at any
point, but I happen to 'know' other wise. While you are correct that the
carts are clear and you certainly could visually inspect them each time you
wanted to know the ink level, this certainly would not be convenient and
would waste ink.

The compatible carts I use have a prism. That is a fact that I "know"
too. You are the first person I have seen to state Canon printers
"count the dots" for use in showing ink levels. Maybe others here can
confirm this or you can give a source to back up the claim. If it did
then an initially half filled cart wouldn't show as near empty when it
really was. Also, removing a cart to inspect it does not waste ink. I
can remove it and replace it without spilling a drop and this operation
doesn't require a head alignment or cleaning procedure. Also, I don't
inspect them every time I want to know the ink level - only when the
"Low Ink" warning has been indicated for a cart.

 

[colinco]

If your 'compatibles' have the prism then they are 'Refills' not
compatibles
as the cartridge design with the prism is patented by Canon and not
licensed
to anyone.

there are carts with modified design to sidestep the patent issue[/QUOTE]

I have yet to see these, care to name a brand so I can check them out?
[/QUOTE]
For info only, never used them

" You may notice the compatible cartridge varies in its design when
compared to the original branded product. The Jet Tec compatible
cartridge is different because the design has been altered to ensure the
compatible cartridge does not infringe patents owned by the original
manufacturer. These changes will NOT affect the quality of the
printout."

 

[Taliesyn]

Certainly is and were you aware of how the printer functions you would know
that.
You have of course noticed two seperate chambers in these cartridges have
you not? Perhaps you would care to explain your design in how the printer
will not waste the significant amount of ink in the filter side of the
cartridge simply because the prism in the liquid only chamber is now
exposed?

Huh? Check the Internet on how the prism functions in the
cartridge.

And if ALL your cartridges have prisms, you are buying genuine Canon inks or
refills, not different brand cartridges, just different brand ink inside.

First of all you cannot buy Canon refills, only new Canon cartridges.
Canon doesn't believe in refilling. And I've never ever found a
dealer stuffing their ink into second-hand, used Canon cartridges.
Who would be the idiot to go to all that trouble of procuring used,
empty Canon cartridges! The people who sell Canon cartridges use
only brand new, factory fresh cartrides, and not made by Canon.
And they are generally of a much cheaper standard. But they all
have a prism!!!

I assure you that if you go to print and the ink is empty the printer status
monitor should pop-up a window showing that an ink is empty.

Yes, I've seen that. That's your last warning. But it's only a warning,
it doesn't take the "key out of the ignition".

Now of course you can force it to start again, but would not be advisable.

Agreed.


So you word it differently... does not change what I stated.

No, I worded it correctly.

Yes, indeed it changes what you stated! According to you they are used
for text and photos with no mention that each particular cartridge has
only one function. According to me, the large is for text, the small is
for photos. That is very different!

We could get technical and say BCI-3eBk is for text and BCI6Bk is for
photos.

That's what the original poster wanted to know. Why reply with basically
what he already knew???

But then that would not be 100% accurate either as there are exceptions
based on application, and media type setting in driver.

He wanted the general rule, not the odd exception.

Now wait, are you refilling or buying 3rd party cartridges. Lets keep your
story straight.

If I sometimes speak of refilling and sometimes of "3rd party
cartridges', that's because I run two printers - one with new
3rd party cartridges (not made by Canon and they have a prism ;-) and
the other I refill with bulk ink.

I am not going into the whole cost analysis thing. It has been covered too
many times in this and other forums.



Negligible to you perhaps. I can assure you it is significant to others.

"They" would be the minority in the millions of satisfied people who buy
3rd party inks and cartridges. In the ten years (approximately) that
I've been using 3rd party inks/cartridges, I've never been forced to
make any color corrections. So I don't see it as a stumbling block to
great printing for anyone.

I see these 3rd party carts all the time without the prism. So your
statement is blatently incorrect. You may want to be sure you are not
confusing ink with cartridges also.

Well, as stupid as I am for being led on... I looked at four brands
of cartridges (only one made by Canon) in my repertoire, turning over
the yellow ones (most translucent) and lo and behold!... they all have a
prism, the little triangular piece of plastic at the bottom of the
cartridge. Okay, so I am sane and I do know what I'm talking about, and
my story is blatantly correct as posted. Perhaps I shop at better
dealers ;-)

And others have not been so lucky as you.

I fail to see where the element of luck is involved if you follow
simple instructions. On the other hand, if you're not mechanically
inclined, as I'm beginning to think, I could see problems.

Note I said it is 'often
successful" as unlike you I am aware there are two sides to this issue.
While they should flow, they do not always, while they should not leak, they
sometimes do.

I refill my two printers and my sister's Canon. So I've probably filled
at least 50 cartridges so far, and they all worked first first time
trying. I can't be "lucky" 50 times!!! Give me a break. If they leak
it's not because refilling is a sometimes thing, it's because I did a
bum job sealing it, simple as that.

You contradict yourself here, so I will not add to it.

Where, oh please?

"Universal" and "works in all printers" inks should be BANNED.
That's my thought. These inks are not (fully) compatible with ANY
printer and cartridge type!

-Taliesyn

 

[PC Medic]

The compatible carts I use have a prism. That is a fact that I "know"
too. You are the first person I have seen to state Canon printers "count
the dots" for use in showing ink levels. Maybe others here can confirm
this or you can give a source to back up the claim. If it did then an
initially half filled cart wouldn't show as near empty when it really was.
Also, removing a cart to inspect it does not waste ink. I can remove it
and replace it without spilling a drop and this operation doesn't require
a head alignment or cleaning procedure. Also, I don't inspect them every
time I want to know the ink level - only when the "Low Ink" warning has
been indicated for a cart.

I have seen many carts and have yet to see these, guess I have just been
lucky.
Canon Service Manuals are one place you will find this information about dot
count. Many past threads here in the newsgroup and other forums are other
places it is readily available. As for your further statement, Remove a cart
from your printer and place an 'empty' cart in its place and close the
printer. This will (of course) result in an ink out error for that color.
Now open the printer and place a half full cart (or at least where prism is
completely covered) in that same slot. Close the cover and after
initializing, the status monitor will show a full tank. Why, because the
light from the optical sensor no longer reflects back through the prism, so
it logically assumes you placed a full cart in to replace the empty. There
are three detected levels Full, Low and Empty.

And yes, you do use ink when you remove a cart to inspect it. Normal
operation of the printer when you open the cover and reseat a tank is to do
a cleaning on the printhead which uses (while very small) some ink.
Continuously checking ink levels visually as you suggest would in fact
result in loss of ink. If the low ink level has been indicated, why on earth
would you need to open the top and remove the tank to inspect the level????

 

[PC Medic]

Huh? Check the Internet on how the prism functions in the
cartridge.

Perhaps you should do just that.
No ink covering prism, low ink warning is triggered and ROM begins dot count
till ink out status is reached.

First of all you cannot buy Canon refills, only new Canon cartridges.
Canon doesn't believe in refilling. And I've never ever found a
dealer stuffing their ink into second-hand, used Canon cartridges.
Who would be the idiot to go to all that trouble of procuring used,
empty Canon cartridges! The people who sell Canon cartridges use
only brand new, factory fresh cartrides, and not made by Canon.
And they are generally of a much cheaper standard. But they all
have a prism!!!


Yes, I've seen that. That's your last warning. But it's only a warning,
it doesn't take the "key out of the ignition".

It does stop the print process unless you the end user manually circumvent
it leading to possible damage to the printhead from continuous printing on
empty tank/nozzles.

No, I worded it correctly.

If it makes you feel better.

Yes, indeed it changes what you stated! According to you they are used
for text and photos with no mention that each particular cartridge has
only one function. According to me, the large is for text, the small is
for photos. That is very different!

But not always the case and for that reason, not entirely correct.
Application and driver settings can alter this and is frequently done by
unsuspecting users.

That's what the original poster wanted to know. Why reply with basically
what he already knew???

Because he asked for clarification. Providing 'HALF' an answer is not what I
do.
This leads to later statements of, "but you told me before that..."

He wanted the general rule, not the odd exception.

No, he already had the general idea. and this exception is not as rare as
you may think.

If I sometimes speak of refilling and sometimes of "3rd party cartridges',
that's because I run two printers - one with new
3rd party cartridges (not made by Canon and they have a prism ;-) and the
other I refill with bulk ink.

not interchangeable in this particualr case.

"They" would be the minority in the millions of satisfied people who buy
3rd party inks and cartridges. In the ten years (approximately) that I've
been using 3rd party inks/cartridges, I've never been forced to make any
color corrections. So I don't see it as a stumbling block to great
printing for anyone.

But this 'minority' you refer to are the ones that come to groups like this
asking why.
To provide half answers is a dis-service to them and the manufacture of the
product as you are leading the less informed to believe things that are not
entirely true. Remember,many of these folks take what they read here as the
true fact (which is scary when I think of some of the crap I see posted)

Well, as stupid as I am for being led on... I looked at four brands
of cartridges (only one made by Canon) in my repertoire, turning over
the yellow ones (most translucent) and lo and behold!... they all have a
prism, the little triangular piece of plastic at the bottom of the
cartridge. Okay, so I am sane and I do know what I'm talking about, and
my story is blatantly correct as posted. Perhaps I shop at better dealers
;-)

Perhaps your carts are made by one of the many that purchase and reuse
empties to refill with there own ink.
I have seen many of these and they do a damn good job of placing a new cap
and all on the cart to appear as it is manufactured new by them. Refilling
them in this manner is one way they are able to cut costs.

I fail to see where the element of luck is involved if you follow
simple instructions. On the other hand, if you're not mechanically
inclined, as I'm beginning to think, I could see problems.

And many out there are not. What may be easy for you, is rocket science to
another.
Ever had to deal with someone that has jammed there tanks in the printer
upside down? Can't figure out how to get the printhead in because they have
not removed the cap? Or torn the printed circuit of the back because the
instructions said ' Be sure to remove all tape?. I have seen it all and more
in my shop.

I refill my two printers and my sister's Canon. So I've probably filled
at least 50 cartridges so far, and they all worked first first time
trying. I can't be "lucky" 50 times!!! Give me a break. If they leak
it's not because refilling is a sometimes thing, it's because I did a
bum job sealing it, simple as that.

See above

Where, oh please?

"Universal" and "works in all printers" inks should be BANNED.
That's my thought. These inks are not (fully) compatible with ANY printer
and cartridge type!

You say there is no wrong way and then point out the wrong ways. All of
which I have seen many many times.

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

I have seen many carts and have yet to see these, guess I have just been
lucky.

I've seen many carts of many brands and have never seen one without the
prism.

Canon Service Manuals are one place you will find this information about dot
count. Many past threads here in the newsgroup and other forums are other
places it is readily available.

Counting dots and counting dots for determining ink level are two
different statements. If it uses dot counts to determin ink levels then
the printer shouldn't know when a 1/2 or 3/4 filled cartridge was
installed and would therefor not indicate levels accurately when a
cartridge is empty since it hadn't sprayed the prerequisit number of
dots. It seems to me that the Canon printers rely on the prism reading
to determin ink levels. How about a link to one of those newsgroup
threads or forums?

As for your further statement, Remove a cart
from your printer and place an 'empty' cart in its place and close the
printer. This will (of course) result in an ink out error for that color.
Now open the printer and place a half full cart (or at least where prism is
completely covered) in that same slot. Close the cover and after
initializing, the status monitor will show a full tank. Why, because the
light from the optical sensor no longer reflects back through the prism, so
it logically assumes you placed a full cart in to replace the empty. There
are three detected levels Full, Low and Empty.

I could remove a low cart and stick it back into the head carriage and
it wouldn't know what had just happened. The carriage moves to the
center position when the cover is opened and I doubt it has the ability
to know what cart was removed and immeadiately reinstalled.

And yes, you do use ink when you remove a cart to inspect it. Normal
operation of the printer when you open the cover and reseat a tank is to do
a cleaning on the printhead which uses (while very small) some ink.
Continuously checking ink levels visually as you suggest would in fact
result in loss of ink. If the low ink level has been indicated, why on earth
would you need to open the top and remove the tank to inspect the level????

It uses a little ink every time it is powered on and off too. I doubt a
cart check uses much ink. Also, I don't check a cart's level until the
low ink warning shows. I never said I contunuously check them.

 

[Taliesyn]

Perhaps your carts are made by one of the many that purchase and reuse
empties to refill with there own ink.

I have seen many of these and they do a damn good job of placing a new cap
and all on the cart to appear as it is manufactured new by them. Refilling
them in this manner is one way they are able to cut costs.

First you can't seem to locate the prism and then all cartridges
with a prism look the same to you.

Anyone with even half a brain can see the difference between a Canon
made cartridge and a (non-Canon) generic. The 3 others I have are made
of rather cheap-looking plastic, sloppily finished, yet all slightly
different from each other in design, material, and finish. In other
words, they were all made by different manufacturers. I have another
one, a rather nice one that I bought new (virgin). Empty. They call them
"blanks". The sponge is pure white. Never used.... Did I mention they
were new? Yes, and they come with the invisible prism that you can't
seem to locate with a radar detector. These have the rather neat idea of
having a built in plastic screw for the fill hole at the top. Obviously,
it's not a Canon made cartridge. Alotofthing also sells never used brand
new cartridges. These are different from my other blanks. They have
small square orange caps with 4 hooks that latch onto 4 small holes
(indentations) on the sides of the cartridges. Very handy, no need for
rubber bands to hold the cap on. They're quite nice too. And if you tell
me all these "blanks" are just reworked, doctored, new clean sponge
installed, Canon cartridges, I will either scream, commit suicide, pull
out my remaining hair, or run naked down the street hollering "I can't
take this guy any longer, he's driving me insane!"

-Taliesyn

 

[PC Medic]

Counting dots and counting dots for determining ink level are two
different statements. If it uses dot counts to determin ink levels then
the printer shouldn't know when a 1/2 or 3/4 filled cartridge was
installed and would therefor not indicate levels accurately when a
cartridge is empty since it hadn't sprayed the prerequisit number of dots.
It seems to me that the Canon printers rely on the prism reading to
determin ink levels. How about a link to one of those newsgroup threads
or forums?

For the sake of saving bandwidth and not repeating myself for those that
comprehend I have explained this to you several times. The dot count does
not start until AFTER the prism is exposed and low ink level is indicated.
It is not active during a 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 5/8 or any other level prior to
that. The ink level syatem also only indicates full, low and empty and none
of the fractions you wish to keep tossing around.
I know how it works, have tried to explain it to you, but you seem set on
believiving what you want. Try google after you figure it out or pay to get
yourself some service manulas and learn about the products you are trying to
act so knowlegable about.

I could remove a low cart and stick it back into the head carriage and it
wouldn't know what had just happened. The carriage moves to the center
position when the cover is opened and I doubt it has the ability to know
what cart was removed and immeadiately reinstalled.

That is why I said place an empty cart in there. When you open the cover it
assumes a cartridge change and the optical sensor checks ink levels when the
cover is again closed. It is quite simple. I thought you would have picked
up on this by now.

It uses a little ink every time it is powered on and off too. I doubt a
cart check uses much ink. Also, I don't check a cart's level until the
low ink warning shows. I never said I contunuously check them.

I did not say it used a lot and in fact specifically stated it used a small
amount. You on the other hand stated it used NONE which is incorrect.

 

[PC Medic]

First you can't seem to locate the prism and then all cartridges
with a prism look the same to you.

Anyone with even half a brain can see the difference between a Canon
made cartridge and a (non-Canon) generic. The 3 others I have are made
of rather cheap-looking plastic, sloppily finished, yet all slightly
different from each other in design, material, and finish. In other
words, they were all made by different manufacturers. I have another
one, a rather nice one that I bought new (virgin). Empty. They call them
"blanks". The sponge is pure white. Never used.... Did I mention they
were new? Yes, and they come with the invisible prism that you can't
seem to locate with a radar detector. These have the rather neat idea of
having a built in plastic screw for the fill hole at the top. Obviously,
it's not a Canon made cartridge. Alotofthing also sells never used brand
new cartridges. These are different from my other blanks. They have
small square orange caps with 4 hooks that latch onto 4 small holes
(indentations) on the sides of the cartridges. Very handy, no need for
rubber bands to hold the cap on. They're quite nice too. And if you tell
me all these "blanks" are just reworked, doctored, new clean sponge
installed, Canon cartridges, I will either scream, commit suicide, pull
out my remaining hair, or run naked down the street hollering "I can't
take this guy any longer, he's driving me insane!"

You promise?!

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

For the sake of saving bandwidth and not repeating myself for those that
comprehend I have explained this to you several times. The dot count does
not start until AFTER the prism is exposed and low ink level is indicated.
It is not active during a 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 5/8 or any other level prior to
that. The ink level syatem also only indicates full, low and empty and none
of the fractions you wish to keep tossing around.
I know how it works, have tried to explain it to you, but you seem set on
believiving what you want. Try google after you figure it out or pay to get
yourself some service manulas and learn about the products you are trying to
act so knowlegable about.

You have to pardon my lack of total belief in everything you state here.
You responded to one of my posts to correct me about whether the Canon
MP780 utilized a BCI-3eBk cartridge. You said it did not use that type
of cartridge. You were blatantly wrong. If you make that sort of
mistake on something simple then I am suspect of anything you post.
Especially since you come across as being an expert on inkjet printers.

Now I can see where it might start counting dots after the prism reading
indicates low ink. You need to be more clear when posting an answer.
Unfortunately I still don't totally believe you for the reason I gave in
the previous paragraph and your lack of providing backup information.

That is why I said place an empty cart in there. When you open the cover it
assumes a cartridge change and the optical sensor checks ink levels when the
cover is again closed. It is quite simple. I thought you would have picked
up on this by now.

Now why would I go and replace an empty cart with a completely empty
cart? The printer checks ink levels continuously not just when the
cover is opened and closed.

I did not say it used a lot and in fact specifically stated it used a small
amount. You on the other hand stated it used NONE which is incorrect.

Funny but you are the one that brought up the ink usage. Why bring it
up if it is negligible? Most of your posts here haven't impressed me
regarding their content, relevance or your knowledge level. As for me
being incorrect, if so, I guess I'm in good company. You might want to
brush up on the MP780's design.

 

[Tom Klimas]

No point in counting dots with a prism on every cartridge. ALL
cartridges (any brand) that I've ever used, have always had the prism
(just plastic, aint' it?).

That's right. Canon relies mostly on the prism for ink monitoring.
According to a Canon tech, once the low ink warning pops up, the driver
uses a "time/print useage" ESTIMATE (not a drop count!) about how much
ink is left after the "low" pops up. After a "period of use" (as
determined by the software) you'll get a "no ink warning". But in
reality there is still plenty left in the sponge. This is the safety
reserve ink to prevent damage to the head. Canon's ink/cartridge
delivery system was intentionally kept simple.

 

[PC Medic]

You have to pardon my lack of total belief in everything you state here.
You responded to one of my posts to correct me about whether the Canon
MP780 utilized a BCI-3eBk cartridge. You said it did not use that type of
cartridge. You were blatantly wrong. If you make that sort of mistake on
something simple then I am suspect of anything you post. Especially since
you come across as being an expert on inkjet printers.

Actually you are incorrect. I hate to bring a second thread in here but here
is exactly what you stated in the MP780 thread you refer to and to which I
responded.....

"I've had an MP780 for about a month and am extremely pleased with its
performance so far. It's easy to use and seems to be very well made.
Also, operating costs are very low since I use compatible cartridges. I
can get 5 BCI-3e cartridges for less than $10 which might make it as, or
more, cost effective than a laser printer when printing normal text
documents."

Now note that ALL you state is that you can get "5 BCI-3e cartridges...."
not BCI-3eBk cartridges which you are claiming now. This makes a big
difference. Considering the MP780 uses a total of 5 cartridges it would be
quite safe for one to assume you may have been referring to a set of BCI-3's
and not a multipack of BCI-3BK's.

This was later clarified in your response and forgotten about in that same
thread. Did not realize you were still loosing sleep over this one.

Now I can see where it might start counting dots after the prism reading
indicates low ink. You need to be more clear when posting an answer.
Unfortunately I still don't totally believe you for the reason I gave in
the previous paragraph and your lack of providing backup information.

I was quite clear in and stated that is exactly how it works. Perhaps you
should re-read from the beginnng of threads.
There is also no 'might' about it and this IS exactly how it works. Whether
you believe is entirely up to you and I certainly will not lose sleep over
it.

Now why would I go and replace an empty cart with a completely empty cart?
The printer checks ink levels continuously not just when the cover is
opened and closed.

Wrong, it does not check continuosly.
It performs ink level checks at various points of a print job, power on
cycles and when the lid is opened to center the carriage and then closed
again.

Funny but you are the one that brought up the ink usage. Why bring it up
if it is negligible? Most of your posts here haven't impressed me
regarding their content, relevance or your knowledge level. As for me
being incorrect, if so, I guess I'm in good company. You might want to
brush up on the MP780's design.

The ink was brought up 'again' as you stated it did not use any when the lid
was opened and closed.
I did not want the unsuspecting newbie to take you inaccurate info as fact.
I am hardly here to impress you, though it would be helpful if someone
educated you a bit. As for me, I am quite familiar with the MP780 and many
other printers design and operation.

 

[measekite]

About how many 8x10 fotos can you get once the No ink warning pops up
without having to worry about damaging the print head?

 

[Michael Johnson, PE]

Actually you are incorrect. I hate to bring a second thread in here but here
is exactly what you stated in the MP780 thread you refer to and to which I
responded.....

"I've had an MP780 for about a month and am extremely pleased with its
performance so far. It's easy to use and seems to be very well made.
Also, operating costs are very low since I use compatible cartridges. I
can get 5 BCI-3e cartridges for less than $10 which might make it as, or
more, cost effective than a laser printer when printing normal text
documents."

Now note that ALL you state is that you can get "5 BCI-3e cartridges...."
not BCI-3eBk cartridges which you are claiming now. This makes a big
difference. Considering the MP780 uses a total of 5 cartridges it would be
quite safe for one to assume you may have been referring to a set of BCI-3's
and not a multipack of BCI-3BK's.

Here's the words from your own keyboard:

"Just an FYI, the MP780 uses BCI-6 not '3'. While they will fit and
will not cause physical harm using them may result in slight color shift
in photos."

The author of the thread said he had an i960 for printing photos so my
reply was for black and white printing only since that is his main use
of the MP780. I guess you missed that part of the thread. I never said
the MP780 didn't use BCI-6 carts but you specifically said it doesn't
use the "3" carts. Are you really so anal to get hung up over me not
adding the "Bk" to the cart designation?!?! Also, last time I checked
(I have both carts here at my desk) the "3" carts are a different size
than the "6" carts and don't fit in the same space. You were not wrong
once but twice in that post.

This was later clarified in your response and forgotten about in that same
thread. Did not realize you were still loosing sleep over this one.

This gave me a chuckle coming from you.

I was quite clear in and stated that is exactly how it works. Perhaps you
should re-read from the beginnng of threads.
There is also no 'might' about it and this IS exactly how it works. Whether
you believe is entirely up to you and I certainly will not lose sleep over
it.

Now I just read a thread from Tom Klimas in this group that states:

"That's right. Canon relies mostly on the prism for ink monitoring.
According to a Canon tech, once the low ink warning pops up, the driver
uses a "time/print useage" ESTIMATE (not a drop count!) about how much
ink is left after the "low" pops up. After a "period of use" (as
determined by the software) you'll get a "no ink warning". But in
reality there is still plenty left in the sponge. This is the safety
reserve ink to prevent damage to the head. Canon's ink/cartridge
delivery system was intentionally kept simple."

Now Tom says he got this information directly from a Canon tech. Who do
I believe now?

Wrong, it does not check continuosly.
It performs ink level checks at various points of a print job, power on
cycles and when the lid is opened to center the carriage and then closed
again.

Here goes Captain Anal again.

The ink was brought up 'again' as you stated it did not use any when the lid
was opened and closed.
I did not want the unsuspecting newbie to take you inaccurate info as fact.
I am hardly here to impress you, though it would be helpful if someone
educated you a bit. As for me, I am quite familiar with the MP780 and many
other printers design and operation.

I can see you're REAL familiar with the MP780. As for you not being
here to impress me, don't worry, you haven't.

 

[PC Medic]

About how many 8x10 fotos can you get once the No ink warning pops up
without having to worry about damaging the print head?

I am assuming you mean once the 'Low Ink' warning pops up. There is
unfortunately no set answer to this as it will depend on media/paper being
used (as this affects amount of ink being dispersed), what ink is low (some
are used more often than others) and the color depth of the images being
printed. I have personally gotten as many as 15 and as few as 5 8x10's
after a low ink warning on both an iP3000 and an iP4000.

 

[PC Medic]

Here's the words from your own keyboard:

"Just an FYI, the MP780 uses BCI-6 not '3'. While they will fit and will
not cause physical harm using them may result in slight color shift in
photos."

The author of the thread said he had an i960 for printing photos so my
reply was for black and white printing only since that is his main use of
the MP780. I guess you missed that part of the thread. I never said the
MP780 didn't use BCI-6 carts but you specifically said it doesn't use the
"3" carts. Are you really so anal to get hung up over me not adding the
"Bk" to the cart designation?!?! Also, last time I checked (I have both
carts here at my desk) the "3" carts are a different size than the "6"
carts and don't fit in the same space. You were not wrong once but twice
in that post.

BCI-3 and BCI-6Bk are different in size. BCI-3 and BCI-6 Colors will in fact
fit the same slots.
Again you did not initially specify BK, C, Y, M, PC, PM R, G etc, etc.......

This gave me a chuckle coming from you.




Now I just read a thread from Tom Klimas in this group that states:

"That's right. Canon relies mostly on the prism for ink monitoring.
According to a Canon tech, once the low ink warning pops up, the driver
uses a "time/print useage" ESTIMATE (not a drop count!) about how much
ink is left after the "low" pops up. After a "period of use" (as
determined by the software) you'll get a "no ink warning". But in
reality there is still plenty left in the sponge. This is the safety
reserve ink to prevent damage to the head. Canon's ink/cartridge
delivery system was intentionally kept simple."

Now Tom says he got this information directly from a Canon tech. Who do I
believe now?

Guess you need to read some more threads to figure that out. Or perhaps try
some Canon Technical Service Manuals, they are chock full of info.

The software does not determine the ink out it only displays the pop-up
after receiving the appropriate signal from the hardware.
The hardware does use a 'dot count' (print usage) after low ink sensor is
triggered, but DOES NOT use a timer. Software plays no part in the detection
at all and again only knows what the hardware tells it. (Though on several
models you can send a hard signal via the driver to reset the ROM's ink
out/low error). Exactly why one of the troubleshooting steps is to isolate
the unit from the computer to determine if the printer itself continues to
display the ink out error (indicated by sequence of flashes from power
light).

I work on these printers every day, am familiar with them and hate to say
it, but Tom got some (partially) bum info. Nope, no timer, no software.
Think about it (if you can), if a printer is networked and you print 250
pages from Computer A how the hell is the driver on Computer B to know this
and adjust its 'software' to indicate the same ink level? Remmeber they kept
it simple here!

Here goes Captain Anal again.

ROTFLMA
The rest of your gibberish has been removed and ignored as has most that
came before it.

 

[Taliesyn]

About how many 8x10 fotos can you get once the No ink warning pops up
without having to worry about damaging the print head?

You really shouldn't print after the "No Ink" warning". It's there to
protect the print head. If I'm in the process of printing a photo and
a warning pops up, I will stop after the print and make the mandatory
change of cartridges. But I've only ever hit "out" once and I can't
remember why because I have a policy of changing ALL the BCI-6 car-
tridges as soon as one color indicates "low". I never wait till I'm flat
"out". Changing them all as a unit is much more convenient than stopping
every few minutes to change yet another color. The large black isn't
included in the set rotation as it operates on a different frequency.
Later I'll sit down, refill the whole set and place them in storage.
Right now I rotate 3 sets, and have two others on standby, but not
in rotation. Sound confusing?

Anyway, with all these cartridges, you can see why I have no need for
squeezing every last drop of cyan, magenta or yellow out any one of them.

-Taliesyn

 

[Barney Rubble]

Here's the words from your own keyboard:

"Just an FYI, the MP780 uses BCI-6 not '3'. While they will fit and will
not cause physical harm using them may result in slight color shift in
photos."

The author of the thread said he had an i960 for printing photos so my
reply was for black and white printing only since that is his main use of
the MP780. I guess you missed that part of the thread. I never said the
MP780 didn't use BCI-6 carts but you specifically said it doesn't use the
"3" carts. Are you really so anal to get hung up over me not adding the
"Bk" to the cart designation?!?! Also, last time I checked (I have both
carts here at my desk) the "3" carts are a different size than the "6"
carts and don't fit in the same space. You were not wrong once but twice
in that post.


This gave me a chuckle coming from you.


Now I just read a thread from Tom Klimas in this group that states:

"That's right. Canon relies mostly on the prism for ink monitoring.
According to a Canon tech, once the low ink warning pops up, the driver
uses a "time/print useage" ESTIMATE (not a drop count!) about how much
ink is left after the "low" pops up. After a "period of use" (as
determined by the software) you'll get a "no ink warning". But in
reality there is still plenty left in the sponge. This is the safety
reserve ink to prevent damage to the head. Canon's ink/cartridge
delivery system was intentionally kept simple."

Now Tom says he got this information directly from a Canon tech. Who do I
believe now?


Here goes Captain Anal again.


I can see you're REAL familiar with the MP780. As for you not being here
to impress me, don't worry, you haven't.

DO EVERYONE A FAVOUR AND BUY AN EPSON!!!