Canon IP5000 or IP8500?

[Sarah Feliz]

Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models -- I'm
thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line Pixma?

Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?

Many thanks for your input
Sarah

 

[wazzad]

All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500 printer.
It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape photographs
from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints are
better than what you would get from quickie type film printing services. It
paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from our
daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP 8500.

P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the results
were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
magnenta non canon ink cartridges.

Hope this helps you in your choice.

Cheers

Ron from Downunder.

 

[measekite]

Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models -- I'm
thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line Pixma?

Yes for narrow carriage. It has the same print engine as the wide
format i9900. These two printers are the flagship of the Canon line.

Is it better than the iP5000?

Better for photos. It is a pure photo printer. The IP5000 would be
better for non-photo work.

If so, in what way, or in which specific
areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?

Like a higher powered car you will burn more ink. There are 2
additional light load inks. Since there is not a pigmented black ink
the printer will mix its own black when required using up individual colors.

 

[measekite]

All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500 printer.
It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape photographs
from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints are
better than what you would get from quickie type film printing services. It
paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from our
daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP 8500.

P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the results
were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
magnenta non canon ink cartridges.

Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?

 

[Burt]

Since I do not have the IP 8500 I can not speak with great authority - I am
using a Canon i960 (six color printer) which, in my estimation, makes
beautiful prints. If the IP 8500 is like other 8 color printers in the
Canon line it does have dye-based black and does not have to mix colors to
create black. My six color printer has black, yellow, cyan, photo cyan
(less dye load), magenta, and photo magenta. The eight color printers add
red and green, reputed to create more vivid red and green on your prints. I
would venture a guess that all inkjet printers, when printing black, use
mostly ink from the black tank, but there is probably a trace of some colors
used as well.

 

[wazzad]

Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the supposedly
better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience with the
colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in the bin,
where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink refillers,
but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this helps.

Cheers mate

Ron from Downunder.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general,
although some do both.

I have seen some major problems with refilling, although I am not sure
it all can fall on the shoulders of the refillers themselves. The
cartridges may be quite old, may have numerous formulations of ink
passing through they or mixed within them. They may be incorrectly
refilled, etc.

I'm sure many are fine, but for accurate and repeatable color, OEM or
pre-packaged 3rd party are probably best.

Art

 

[measekite]

This is an example of what I have been professing on this NG for quite
some time but the members of the AfterMarket Club keep defending these
types of resellers.

Do you happen to know the actual mfg/formulator of the junkie refills
you tossed?

 

[measekite]

Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general,
although some do both.

They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.

 

[Burt]

They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials from
the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.

(snip)

Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used cartridges,
refill them, and sell them. They don't know how many times a cart has been
refilled, what inks have been through them, or what the state of the sponge
and exit port filter (BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business
users requires that the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to
refill, that it isn't permitted to dry out once removed from the printer,
and that predictably good inks are used. Third party vendors of filled
cartridges use newly manufactured carts, and reliable vendors fill them with
reliable inks. Some vendors have been in business for many years and their
products have proven to be reliable, as reported by users of their products.

 

[measekite]

(snip)

Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used cartridges,
refill them, and sell them.

When referring to raw materials (not parts or carts themselves) I was
referring to ink. Last I heard is that aftermarket resellers sell ink
either in bottles or prefilled in carts.

They don't know how many times a cart has been
refilled, what inks have been through them, or what the state of the sponge
and exit port filter (BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business
users requires that the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to
refill, that it isn't permitted to dry out once removed from the printer,
and that predictably good inks are used. Third party vendors of filled
cartridges use newly manufactured carts, and reliable vendors fill them with
reliable inks.

There really is a mix. You may have some reliable vendors filling with
reliable inks. You may have unreliable vendors filling with reliable
inks. You also may have unreliable vendors filling with unreliable ink.

Some vendors have been in business for many years and their
products have proven to be reliable,

It is very easy for them to accept a new deal (far lower price) from
someone and just continue on with selling under their store label and
fool the public for a while.

 

[Burt]

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well enough for you to understand -
Companies who take in used carts and refill them appear to be the problem.
They would have a greater possibility of selling a cart that does not
function properly than someone who purchases new third party carts filled
with aftermarket inks. No need to buy refilled canon BCI3 or BCI6 carts as
there are many vendors who sell prefilled NEW third party carts and bulk
inks. The most successful refilling at home is done in OEM carts after one
uses the OEM ink. The least successful seems to be with some of the
"improved" third party carts that are designed much differently from the OEM
carts.

As I understand it, no one can mfg a third party HP cart and so the only
third party filled carts are OEM carts that have been refilled. Some people
who do their own refilling with HP carts report success, but I have read
that the process is very technique sensitive. Most important is to not run
the tank empty before refilling.

As Arthur has said reliable vendors who have been in business for many years
realize that it is in their best interest to NOT switch to an inferior
product as they, like most businesses, value repeat business and good PR
from satisfied customers.

 

[wazzad]

Measekit when I rang him up re: the appalling colour rendition of the
refilled canon BC 6 photo cyan and photo magnenta and asked him whether
these were specifically formulated canon inks he appeared somewhat evasive.
He stated that his inks were the finest inks that he purchased from Germany.
These cartridges gave such a bad tint that they could not be adjusted even
with manual settings through my manual settings. All areas of my A4 printed
photos had a horrible bluey cast colour. The name of the ink refiller
franchise is 'Cartridge World' which refills your cartridges for $13 each
with their ink (BC6 series), which is not cheap for refilled cartridges in
Australia.

Cheers mate.

Ron from Downunder.

 

[measekite]

I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well enough for you to understand -
Companies who take in used carts and refill them appear to be the problem.
They would have a greater possibility of selling a cart that does not
function properly than someone who purchases new third party carts filled
with aftermarket inks. No need to buy refilled canon BCI3 or BCI6 carts as
there are many vendors who sell prefilled NEW third party carts and bulk
inks. The most successful refilling at home is done in OEM carts after one
uses the OEM ink. The least successful seems to be with some of the
"improved" third party carts that are designed much differently from the OEM
carts.

You can only refill the Canon carts so many times before they begin to
deteriorate.

 

[measekite]

Measekit when I rang him up re: the appalling colour rendition of the
refilled canon BC 6 photo cyan and photo magnenta and asked him whether
these were specifically formulated canon inks he appeared somewhat evasive.
He stated that his inks were the finest inks that he purchased from Germany.
These cartridges gave such a bad tint that they could not be adjusted even
with manual settings through my manual settings. All areas of my A4 printed
photos had a horrible bluey cast colour. The name of the ink refiller
franchise is 'Cartridge World' which refills your cartridges for $13 each
with their ink (BC6 series), which is not cheap for refilled cartridges in
Australia.

The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do
not know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.

 

[Burt]

You can only refill the Canon carts so many times before they begin to
deteriorate.

(snip)

You are quite right that you can only refill them so many times, but I
understand that the problem is less deterioration than dried ink eventually
making the sponge material unable to take up ink or the exit port filter
less able to release ink on demand from the printer. I have the original
OEM set, nearly a year old, still working with as many as 8 or 9 refills in
some of the carts. Recently one of them started to do some banding. The
fix was really simple. First blow gently into the air vent to see if ink
drips out of the exit port. If it is not coming out easily you can turn it
upside down, put 8 to 10 drops of alcohol in the exit port, seal the exit
port with the cap that came with the OEM cart (hold on with rubber band),
turn it back upright, open the fill hole, put it into the microwave (covered
in case something unexpected happens!), together with a glass of water to
absorb most of the microwave energy, and zap it at ten second intervals
until the reservoir part of the cart reaches about 150 - 160 degrees. Then
refill and let the little bit of alchohol-diluted ink drip out of the exit
port. Apparently, heating the cart with ink in it redesolves that tiny
amount of dried ink in the sponge/filter. This is about a ten minute
project. For someone who doesn't want to bother, you can instead buy a new
OEM cart and start the process of refilling over. Some people have had
great success buying Alotofthings carts and refilling them, and your initial
investment in the cart is much less.

Yes, Measekite, I have always been a tinkerer and that is why I had a
successful career as a rocket scientist. (just kidding!) Actually, my career
involved precision work in the range of fractions of millimeters with very
small tolerances using very precise instruments. Photography, woodworking,
car repair, gardening, ceramics, wood block printing, and fishing - these
are all things I enjoy as a rest from the more cerebral and demanding
efforts that my work of 40 years involved. Dealing with inks/carts
absolutely isn't rocket science. I'm not intimidated by a $150 printer and
the simplest of tasks, refilling ink carts. It is just a no-thought-process
quick task that I can do when necessary between prints.

 

[Burt]

The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do not
know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.

(snip)

As I recall, you can not buy one at a time but must buy them in packs of
three with a cost of $31 per three pack. A bit more than $10 apiece plus
tax. Still cheaper per cart than the list price, but you need to buy three
of a color to save about $2 per cart. To effect this savings on your five
color printer you will need to spend $155 to purchase all the colors needed
for replacement at any given time. Effective savings is about $30. No
criticism intended. Just stating the facts on savings via Costco OEM Canon
carts.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

But that's not the issue.

Although I do refill some cartridges, I also recognize there are more
perils involved. There is a risk of contamination during the refill
process from environmental contaminants or from changes within the ink
cartridge (dried inks, incompatibility between inks, foam breakdown,
build up of ink foaming, air bubbles trapped, etc) and the ink, which
may have been exposed to excessive oxygen and oxidized, over-evaporated
fluids or solvents, etc.. The ink cartridge which are virgin are
manufactured typically in a very hygienic and professionally managed
situation, and the cartridge is fresh when filled. There are many less
variables involved in a factory filled cartridge.


Art


measekite wrote:

 

[measekite]

(snip)

As I recall, you can not buy one at a time but must buy them in packs of
three with a cost of $31 per three pack. A bit more than $10 apiece plus
tax.

No Shipping. You do not buy 1 ounce of ink at a time either.

Still cheaper per cart than the list price, but you need to buy three
of a color to save about $2 per cart.

INCORRECT AGAIN. Costco sells a 3 pack of color. One each of the
primary colors. These usually run out within weeks of each other. You
are actually purchasing one cart per color in the packaged. With the
dye black there are 3.

To effect this savings on your five
color printer you will need to spend $155 to purchase all the colors needed
for replacement at any given time.

All of the colors do not go at one time. In the 8 months I have had my
printer I replaced all of the colors one time. Both blacks have not
been replaced. The price was about $27.00 for the colors. I have not
even received low warnings on the blacks.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Exactly!

Art

(snip)

Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used cartridges,
refill them, and sell them. They don't know how many times a cart has been
refilled, what inks have been through them, or what the state of the sponge
and exit port filter (BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business
users requires that the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to
refill, that it isn't permitted to dry out once removed from the printer,
and that predictably good inks are used. Third party vendors of filled
cartridges use newly manufactured carts, and reliable vendors fill them with
reliable inks. Some vendors have been in business for many years and their
products have proven to be reliable, as reported by users of their products.