Canon iP4000 or iP5000? For graphic output

[measekite]

Convenient

Umm... no it doesn't necessarily mean that - it means measkite is our
resident ill-informed troll and his advice it to be taken with a very big
grain of salt.


I have him kilfilled,

Good

so have not seen all his responses to
this thread.

Then you must be a jerk

Personally I have only used Canon and Kodak paper, and the
results on Kodak paper were very poor.

Then why use Kodak Paper?

You might also try posting your
question here: http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_forum.php?id=40

Better to Call Canon Tech Support. They are very helpful and can answer
many of your questions.

 

[measekite]

The performance of a printer sometimes doesnt follow logic I guess.

I purchased both of them and ended up returning the ip5000 and getting a
second ip4000.

The performance of the 4000 was superior on photos. I think the 1 picolitre
head wasnt as good as Canon expected.

THIS IS THE SAME CONCLUSION REACHED BY PC MAG. WE DO NOT KNOW WHY.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD WRITE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR. SOMETIMES THEY PUBLISH
THE RESULTS TO THESE QUESTIONS.

BUT IF YOU DO A LOT OF TEXT AND BUSINESS GRAPHICS THE IP5000 IS YOUR
BEST CHOICE. THE FOTOS WILL STILL BE ALMOST AS GOOD BUT NOT QUITE.

 

[pete]

measekite <[email protected]> posted something or other.

Meeskite, are you aware of the Yiddish meaning of your name?

meeskite - (rhymes with 'bees might') noun. Literally it means ugly face.
Commonly used to describe an unattractive girl. In The Concert, Barbra
looks at the photo of herself at age 13 and says, "What a meeskite."

Are you that ugly?

He is a troll

 

[Taliesyn]

Okay, I went and bought the iP5000. Am comparing it to the HP8450 -- one of
them is going back, and I'm trying to figure out which one works best.

Right off the bat, the HP photos look better (without tweaking): crisper,
cleaner, less saturated. On the graphic side, the Canon works better hands
down.

What I'd like to do is figure out the Canon settings so I get better
results
for both photos and graphics. So here are a few questions which I hope the
kind people of this forum will have answers for:

1. Where is the setting for highest photo resolution? I don't see
any such a option. In fact, people have commented on the slowness
of the iP5000 and I don't find it to be slow. Perhaps I'm missing
something?

Sorry, Sarah, I've been "away" doing actual printing (4 CD project) and
digital song editing. The nice thing about using non-OEM ink on a large,
colorful project as this is that I can do as many test prints as I want
(any resolution) without worrying about ink costs. They're too low to
even consider.

But regarding the iP5000's best quality setting. . .

In Properties, in the Print Quality section, choose "Custom" and click
the "Select" button. In this new window slide the Quality indicator to
the far right, or "1" setting. The other thing to do is select "Photo
Paper Pro". This combination sets maximum photo resolution (9600).

I use these settings for all my high quality work, be it glossy photos
(any brand paper), or Epson Glossy Photo Paper for greeting cards and CD
liners, or my Meritline Glossy stick-on CD labels, or even for my coated
papers that I use for graphics. It generally gives wonderful results. At
this setting my 4x6 photos take about a minute longer to print than on
my i860 (iP4000) because of the higher resolution. But that's only
logical - Quality setting takes longer than Standard which takes longer
than Draft. Thus, 9600 will take longer than 4800 dpi.

The iP5000 uses both 1 pl and 5 pl droplets for photos, and the iP4000
uses 2 pl and 5 pl for photos. This information is from Canon websites
and is not a wild guess.

And what's the "High Resolution Paper" setting for? Is that what I
should be using? Even though the paper I'm using is actually listed?
Also, often this option is greyed out. Why?

For settings of specialized papers I can't help you as I don't use them.
The papers I do use seem to work best at my above settings.

Trial and error is one way to find out.

-Taliesyn

 

[measekite]

He is a troll

Cut your little pecker of if you can find it and Eat It.

Peter Piper Pick a Peck of Pickeled Peckers.

 

[measekite]

Sorry, Sarah, I've been "away" doing actual printing (4 CD project) and
digital song editing. The nice thing about using non-OEM ink on a large,
colorful project as this is that I can do as many test prints as I want
(any resolution) without worrying about ink costs. They're too low to
even consider.

Yes that is you . Bill Gates can do the same using Canon ink and he
does ot worry about ink costs either.

But regarding the iP5000's best quality setting. . .

In Properties, in the Print Quality section, choose "Custom" and click
the "Select" button. In this new window slide the Quality indicator to
the far right, or "1" setting. The other thing to do is select "Photo
Paper Pro". This combination sets maximum photo resolution (9600).

Doesn't High with the Photo Paper Pro setting do the same thing?

I use these settings for all my high quality work, be it glossy photos
(any brand paper), or Epson Glossy Photo Paper for greeting cards and CD
liners, or my Meritline Glossy stick-on CD labels, or even for my coated
papers that I use for graphics. It generally gives wonderful results. At
this setting my 4x6 photos take about a minute longer to print than on
my i860 (iP4000) because of the higher resolution. But that's only
logical - Quality setting takes longer than Standard which takes longer
than Draft. Thus, 9600 will take longer than 4800 dpi.

The iP5000 uses both 1 pl and 5 pl droplets for photos, and the iP4000
uses 2 pl and 5 pl for photos. This information is from Canon websites
and is not a wild guess.

How about the link for the particular article on the Canon website?

 

[Sarah Feliz]

Thanks so much for your response. I'm away from the printer right now (it's
at home) and so can't apply your settings. I don't even remember seeing a
Custom setting in Print Quality-- all I recall is a list of pre-set Photo
Papers. Is it possible that I have a different driver (am using Mac OS X, by
the way)? I remember that somewhere (under Color Options) there's a slider
that allows you to choose between Fast and Fine, with settings in between. I
have used it and found that the photos come out quite good. But sometimes
that's greyed out.

What about the more fine art papers (non-photo, thicker, textured,
watercolor, etc) -- do you have any experience with those? I use those for
greeting cards and small wall paintings and would love to know what the
optimal settings for these papers would be. Even though Canon may not
officially support these papers, even from the little testing I've done I
can see that on some it works great. The next question would be longevity.
How long can I expect these prints to last?

As to photo output in the IP5000 versus the IP4000--I'm concerned about the
fact that everyone points out how much better the IP4000 photos are. How
much of a difference in quality are we talking about? In what way are the
IP4000 photos better? Are the IP4000 photos better than IP5000 photos at the
highest setting? Has anyone done side by side comparisons with the same
photo?

What to do? I'm tempted to get the IP4000 just to test it side by side with
the IP5000 (but that would drive me crazy because I know I'll end up wanting
to keep both--which would be even more absurd given that this printer is
intended to be an intermediary step before I spring for the Epson 2400 after
the summer).

Thanks,
Sarah

 

[Sarah Feliz]

Can you specify what you mean by "business graphics" and why the IP5000 is
better for that purpose than the IP4000? I print a lot of graphics but
they're not business graphics. Are you talking about pie charts and such? Or
do you mean something else? I print a lot of digital art (digital paintings
and graphic art -- I want to be sure that we're on the same page when I
follow your advice on this printer.

Also what are your settings for the best output of these business graphics?
Do you actually choose the "graphic" setting in the Print menu? For that
matter, do you change your settings when you're printing graphics as opposed
to when you're printing photos (I mean other than paper option)?

Thanks,
Sarah

 

[Taliesyn]

Yes that is you . Bill Gates can do the same using Canon ink and he
does ot worry about ink costs either.

I guess that really ticks you off that I have so much expendable,
affordable ink (and I'm happy with it) that you've compared me now to
Bill Gates. The "Bill Gates" of compatible inks! I'm honored.

Doesn't High with the Photo Paper Pro setting do the same thing?

Dunno. It may, and it may not. That's something you can try with your
own printer. Just time how long a print takes using both methods. If
the print takes exactly as long and looks the same then I guess the two
are interchangeable. Just to be sure it's the highest setting, I've
always done it (my way) through "Custom".

How about the link for the particular article on the Canon website?

Just Google. I don't have a link, that's how I found it. But it is fact,
it's not an "I think".

-Taliesyn

 

[Taliesyn]

Can you specify what you mean by "business graphics" and why the IP5000 is
better for that purpose than the IP4000? I print a lot of graphics but
they're not business graphics. Are you talking about pie charts and such? Or
do you mean something else? I print a lot of digital art (digital paintings
and graphic art -- I want to be sure that we're on the same page when I
follow your advice on this printer.

I'm not an expert, but can I chime in?... To me, "graphics" means
anything that is not a photo, something in the .jpg format.

If your digital art is in the form of a .jpg image then it should be
considered "photo". If your project consists of both .jpg and graphics
(a red box, clipart, etc) then you should probably select "Auto" in the
Color Adjustment box in Properties. If it's just one or the other,
select "manual" and then choose either "Photo" or "Graphic". Or you can
always just leave it at "Auto" and let the printer handle things. You do
have to experiment to see which method prints most closely to what you
expected.

Also what are your settings for the best output of these business graphics?

Same as for photos: Quality setting to 1 in Custom-Set window in Print
Quality, and paper type set to Photo Paper Pro. Of course, the paper
setting may depend on what paper you're using. I mostly use paper that
works great with the Photo Paper Pro setting.

Do you actually choose the "graphic" setting in the Print menu? For that
matter, do you change your settings when you're printing graphics as opposed
to when you're printing photos (I mean other than paper option)?

Yes, I do, I set it what I'm printing. I find that it makes a
difference. There is also a useful "Brightness" setting in the same
area. Sometimes I find my graphic output is too light, so I set it
from Normal to Dark. I did use this Dark setting to darken my whole
Christmas project. It more closely matched what I was seeing on screen,
and what I really wanted. There are a lot of minor adjustment you can
make that change the output. You can even adjust for more intensity.
Again, test prints (and lots of ink) come in handy.

-Taliesyn

 

[measekite]

Thanks so much for your response. I'm away from the printer right now (it's
at home) and so can't apply your settings. I don't even remember seeing a
Custom setting in Print Quality-- all I recall is a list of pre-set Photo
Papers. Is it possible that I have a different driver (am using Mac OS X, by
the way)? I remember that somewhere (under Color Options) there's a slider
that allows you to choose between Fast and Fine, with settings in between. I
have used it and found that the photos come out quite good. But sometimes
that's greyed out.

What about the more fine art papers (non-photo, thicker, textured,
watercolor, etc) -- do you have any experience with those? I use those for
greeting cards and small wall paintings and would love to know what the
optimal settings for these papers would be. Even though Canon may not
officially support these papers, even from the little testing I've done I
can see that on some it works great. The next question would be longevity.
How long can I expect these prints to last?

There is and will be a lot of controversy when answering that question.
All I can say is that all of the prints I made 8 months ago and just
lying around on a desk are the same now as when I printed them.

As to photo output in the IP5000 versus the IP4000--I'm concerned about the
fact that everyone points out how much better the IP4000 photos are.

I have an IP4000. It is faster and the photos are only marginally
better than the IP5000. For your purposes the IP5000 was a better choice.

How
much of a difference in quality are we talking about?

Very little.

In what way are the
IP4000 photos better?

That is subjective and depends on the particular photo. These things
can vary. I would not even think about it.

Are the IP4000 photos better than IP5000 photos at the
highest setting? Has anyone done side by side comparisons with the same
photo?

Read ther reviews at www.pcmag.com

 

[measekite]

Can you specify what you mean by "business graphics" and why the IP5000 is
better for that purpose than the IP4000?

Output that has text, diagrams, graphs, powerpoint material combined.
Basically, anything that is not a pure photo. It prints that stuff at a
higher resolution. You must choose plain paper to get that quality.

I print a lot of graphics but
they're not business graphics. Are you talking about pie charts and such?
Yes

Or
do you mean something else?

And Yes. Non Photos

I print a lot of digital art (digital paintings
and graphic art --
Yes

I want to be sure that we're on the same page when I
follow your advice on this printer.


Absolutely

Also what are your settings for the best output of these business graphics?
Do you actually choose the "graphic" setting in the Print menu? For that
matter, do you change your settings when you're printing graphics as opposed
to when you're printing photos (I mean other than paper option)?

I choose High and Plain Paper. I also am using a high quality ultra
bright 106+ hammermill paper. I have tried other quality papers but my
preference is hammermill. They are owned by International Paper. Go to
their website and send them an email asking for a sample package of
their papers for both laserjet and inkjet. Both will work but I prefer
their inkjet paper.

 

[measekite]

I guess that really ticks you off that I have so much expendable,
affordable ink (and I'm happy with it) that you've compared me now to
Bill Gates. The "Bill Gates" of compatible inks! I'm honored.

Hey Don't get a swelled head

Just cause ur head comes to a point
Don;t think ur sharp.

 

[measekite]

I'm not an expert, but can I chime in?... To me, "graphics" means
anything that is not a photo, something in the .jpg format.

If your digital art is in the form of a .jpg image then it should be
considered "photo".

FALSE STATEMENT - I have scanned contracts with graphic art and logos
using my Epson 4180 flatbed scanner and save them as .jpg images. I
then imported those images into MS Word and wrote additional text. I
then printed them out using the Plain Paper setting at High. Lo and
Behold there was the birth of a business document with graphics that was
not a photo but it included numerous .jpg images.

 

[Sarah Feliz]

Aha! So that's the secret: Plain Paper and High. Hmm.... I'll have to try
that.

What about when you're combining actual photos and text? Still Plain Paper
and High? If you're printing on one of the photo papers, though, I imagine
you change the Plain Paper setting to the appropriate photo paper used,
correct?

Now, what I'm trying to figure out is: what's the best setting for
non-plain, non-photo paper? As in: card stock, watercolor paper, fine art
papers in general. I guess it's test and see.

If anyone's tried this on an IP5000 and would be willing to share his or her
results, I'd be most grateful.

Sarah

 

[Sarah Feliz]

I work on a Mac. These printers do come with Mac drivers, though I¹m
beginning to think the drivers differ a bit from the Windows version. For
example, I do not recall seeing a Custom setting in the Mac driver for
IP5000. Isn¹t that strange?

Sarah

 

[Burt]

At the risk of repeating what has already been posted, Taliesyn uses the
IP5000 for a large variety of projects and also uses the I series printer
that shares the same printhead and inks with the IP4000. I have read
reviews that indicate that the IP4000 and its previous incarnation in the I
series prints essentially the same quality photos and other prints. He
actually uses these two printers side-by-side and would be the source I
would use for comparative information. Measekite certainly knows and enjoys
using his IP4000 printer and has quoted the comparative reviews from PC mag,
but Taliesyn has the experience of side-by-side use to help you with. If
there is anything in the IP5000 driver settings that differs from the IP4000
he, again, would be the best resource for guidance on settings.

 

[Taliesyn]

Thanks so much for your response. I'm away from the printer right now (it's
at home) and so can't apply your settings. I don't even remember seeing a
Custom setting in Print Quality-- all I recall is a list of pre-set Photo
Papers. Is it possible that I have a different driver (am using Mac OS X, by
the way)? I remember that somewhere (under Color Options) there's a slider
that allows you to choose between Fast and Fine, with settings in between. I
have used it and found that the photos come out quite good. But sometimes
that's greyed out.

Can't help you there as I'm on Bill Gates' system. Either way, for
optimum quality it should be at the "1" setting" (fine).

What about the more fine art papers (non-photo, thicker, textured,
watercolor, etc) -- do you have any experience with those? I use those for
greeting cards and small wall paintings and would love to know what the
optimal settings for these papers would be. Even though Canon may not
officially support these papers, even from the little testing I've done I
can see that on some it works great.

Sorry, I don't use art papers. My greeting cards are always on Epson
Glossy Photo Paper. It's a multiple use paper for me: greeting cards,
CD liners, booklet covers. Except that I don't use it for its intended
purpose - digital photos. For that I use other brands, even from my
dollar store, which produces a slightly superior image to Canon Photo
Paper Pro. Side by side, Canon's paper has a visible haze which the
dollar store paper doesn't have. The drawback is that the dollar store
paper takes a day to fully dry. The advantage is I get 20 sheets for
1 dollar.

The next question would be longevity.
How long can I expect these prints to last?

Only God knows and he won't tell anyone. Canon has thrown some numbers
around which you can easily find using Google. Like photos from film
cameras, anything you print will fade over time. I haven't noticed any
fading in items I have protected behind glass/plastic or just put away
in drawers for several years. They look as fresh as ever. It's not a
concern to me, and I don't even use OEM inks. So that tells you how
little I'm worried about it. Unprotected, and on Canon's best paper, I
saw a photo fade really badly in my kitchen within 3 months. Yeah, I
know, a kitchen is a "harsh environment". But obviously, protection is a
good thing. Epson Glossy Photo Paper easily outlasted Canon's best when
left unprotected in my "kitchen test".

Another thought on printing graphics . . . If I'm printing on plain
paper, then naturally, I choose Plain Paper setting and High Quality.
Any higher resolution or other paper setting and the ink may soak into
the paper too much. But when I use what's called "coated paper" for
graphics, I use the Photo Paper Pro setting, Quality 1 (same as for
photos). This works great for me.

-Taliesyn

 

[measekite]

Aha! So that's the secret: Plain Paper and High. Hmm.... I'll have to try
that.

What about when you're combining actual photos and text? Still Plain Paper
and High?

No. If you are using glossy paper like Canon Photo Paper Pro or
Costco/Kirkland Photo Paper choose the Photo Paper Pro setting with
High. Costco is 1/7 the price of Canon paper and 98% as good. Canon
Photo Paper Pro came with your machine. Buy a Fiskars rotary paper
cutter (cut with shiney side up) and you can cut your own 4x6 and 5x7.
The price is $18.95 for 125 sheets.

If you're printing on one of the photo papers, though, I imagine
you change the Plain Paper setting to the appropriate photo paper used,
correct?


Yes

Now, what I'm trying to figure out is: what's the best setting for
non-plain, non-photo paper? As in: card stock, watercolor paper, fine art
papers in general. I guess it's test and see.

You can call Canon Tech Suppt. They are very good.

 

[Taliesyn]

Sarah Feliz wrote:

Card stock is generally not coated so its surface would be the same as
plain paper, thus "Plain Paper", High Quality setting.

-Taliesyn