Can I do a clean install using the Retail Upgrade DVD

[Guest]

I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade Vista
DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I format
the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just to
immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically clean
installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that when
I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe out
my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or some
other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of hours
installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP}]

If you wish to perform a "real" clean install of
Windows Vista, then purchase a "Full Version"
of Windows Vista. Upgrade means exactly that:
Upgrade.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade Vista
DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I
format
the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just to
immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically clean
installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that
when
I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe
out
my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or
some
other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of hours
installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?

 

[Guest]

Yes, I buy the upgrade version because I HAVE the existing software, not
because I want to upgrade my current installation. ALL other upgrade packages
for software (including expensive ones like Adobe Creative Suite 2) just
require proof that you own the previous product - by inserting the cd OR
validating a current installation which is kept after the upgrade.

 

[Ken]

With vista upgrade you cant do this anymore you must start install from
within an installed and activated xp.
If you want to keep xp you need the full version. This is another reason to
get the full version because with the upgrade your xp licence gets merged
into vista so xp will become redundant. This is why an upgrade is cheaper.

To avoid installing xp later on when you reinstall vista upgrade why dont
you make a ghost image of your drive after you install vista. When
installing vista upgrade just choose custom install this will repace your
windows dir and rename your old one to window.old. So its still clean
install so to speak

Ken

Yes, I buy the upgrade version because I HAVE the existing software, not
because I want to upgrade my current installation. ALL other upgrade
packages
for software (including expensive ones like Adobe Creative Suite 2) just
require proof that you own the previous product - by inserting the cd OR
validating a current installation which is kept after the upgrade.

If you wish to perform a "real" clean install of
Windows Vista, then purchase a "Full Version"
of Windows Vista. Upgrade means exactly that:
Upgrade.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade
Vista
DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I
format
the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just
to
immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically
clean
installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that
when
I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe
out
my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or
some
other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of
hours
installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?

 

[Guest]

So this is a change from the XP Upgrade procedure where I could clean my HD,
start the XP Upgrade CD, insert my 98 or ME or 2000 CD, have it read and
removed, and away we go.
No problem.
Our MVP says we can't do this with Vista?
Pete

With vista upgrade you cant do this anymore you must start install from
within an installed and activated xp.
If you want to keep xp you need the full version. This is another reason to
get the full version because with the upgrade your xp licence gets merged
into vista so xp will become redundant. This is why an upgrade is cheaper.

To avoid installing xp later on when you reinstall vista upgrade why dont
you make a ghost image of your drive after you install vista. When
installing vista upgrade just choose custom install this will repace your
windows dir and rename your old one to window.old. So its still clean
install so to speak

Ken

Yes, I buy the upgrade version because I HAVE the existing software, not
because I want to upgrade my current installation. ALL other upgrade
packages
for software (including expensive ones like Adobe Creative Suite 2) just
require proof that you own the previous product - by inserting the cd OR
validating a current installation which is kept after the upgrade.

If you wish to perform a "real" clean install of
Windows Vista, then purchase a "Full Version"
of Windows Vista. Upgrade means exactly that:
Upgrade.

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows - Shell/User

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

I have read in various places (including here) that the retail upgrade
Vista
DVD won't allow me to do a clean install (a real clean install where I
format
the hard drive). I simply cannot believe that this should be true.
Am I supposed to sit around and wait for 1.5 hours for XP to install just
to
immediately replace that installation with Vista? I allways do a clean
install of my OS - and yes I know that Vista upgrades are technically
clean
installs which migrate the settings over afterwards. The problem is that
when
I reinstall Windows I don't *WANT* my settings to be carried over. I wipe
out
my installation for good reason. Some idiotic problem in the registry or
some
other hidden place will carried over unless I first spend a couple of
hours
installing XP (which is rather ridiculous given the fact that Vista's new
instalation routine was mean't to make everything faster, not slower).
Microsoft can't seriously mean this. Am I supposed to pay two times the
price of the upgrade just get the ability to do a clean install?

 

[Guest]

Does this also mean that the upgrade version MUST be installed on the same
partition/harddrive as Windows XP? For instance, what if XP was installed on
a 15 GB partition and I had either bought a new harddrive or had a larger
partition since Vista is much larger than XP. Would I have to install Windows
XP on that partition/harddrive to be eligible to install Vista? I'm not crazy
about how they modified the upgrade versions as it creates some new problems.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

It depends on whether you are installing Vista x86 or x64.

If you are installing Vista x86 with an upgrade edition product key, then
you must run Setup from the legacy Windows desktop. Since you are running
the legacy Windows OS the system partition is locked and you cannot format.
Microsoft doesn't care whether or not you reformat, it just isn't
technically possible to format the system drive of a running OS. This is
why the Advanced Options button does not appear when you have started Setup
from a desktop.

If you are installing Vista x64 with an upgrade edition pk, you are not
required to run from the legacy Windows desktop so the legacy system is not
running and its system partition is therefore not locked. The Advanced
Options button does appear and you should be able to format the system drive
before installing Vista since Vista Setup has verified the installation of a
qualifying legacy Windows OS on the computer at the time you entered the pk.
(XP Pro x64 users have the option of starting the Vista x64 Setup by booting
with the dvd or by running it from the desktop.)

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

That only applies to Vista x86. Vista x64 upgrade editions can be installed
by booting with the dvd. After all, the 64bit version of Setup won't run on
an x86 operating system so it could not run on a Win2k or XP SP2 desktop.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

You can install XP that way. You just cannot bypass installing XP by using
your Win98 cd directly to install Vista itself. I don't like the sounds of
a two or three tiered installation, however, so I suggest that you avoid it.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Yes. Otherwise you would not be upgrading. You would be installing a new
OS in parallel with the old one.

The new methodology is designed to require an activated and genuine copy of
Windows in order to qualify for upgrade pricing. There is nothing activated
or genuine about a cd. Anybody can copy a cd. In fact users should copy
their installation media to protect their investment in the product. I
never use the original cd when reinstalling Windows.

 

[Ken]

I actually realised this. I guess i was talking about the 32bit that most
people would install and didnt mention the 64bit bit.

Ken

 

[Guest]

Stay with x86.
Right now, I can put an new HD in my PC and boot from a XP Upgrade CD.
The installation stops, tells me it can't find a prior version of Windows,
insert my prior version CD and hit Enter.
The installation appears to continue but all thats happening is that the
prior (98/ME/2000) is being verifyed.
I than reinsert my XP Upgrade disk and XP is installed as a new fresh
version and activates.

So now you're telling me, with Vista, if a HD fails on an upgraded version
of Vista, the whole prior OS, be it XP, 98 ME 2000, has to be installed
before installing an "Upgrade" version of Vista??????????

What happens, on a repair call with an upgraded PC that had the prior OS
"recovery" on a partioned segment of the HD????? (Compaq, eMachine, HP)
You have to tell the customer that the upgraded version of Vista they
purchased can't be used until you send away to the PC Mfg for a recovery CD
for their prior system before you can reinstall their already purchased Vista
upgrade on the new HD????

Don't make sense.

 

[Guest]

Yes. Otherwise you would not be upgrading. You would be installing a new
OS in parallel with the old one.

The new methodology is designed to require an activated and genuine copy of
Windows in order to qualify for upgrade pricing. There is nothing activated
or genuine about a cd. Anybody can copy a cd. In fact users should copy
their installation media to protect their investment in the product. I
never use the original cd when reinstalling Windows.

 

[Guest]

Excuse my other blank response, the newsgroup has been acting kind of funny
and I don't think it went through correctly.

To me it seems like a better method could have been implemented rather
depending on this tiered installation requirement. I know that this is done
to require that the copy of XP is genuine. But why couldn't the upgrade
version just prompt the user to enter their XP Product key along with the
Vista Product key when going through the activation process? Isn't the whole
point of it to link up the product keys? I'm not in the scenario that I
mentioned earlier, but I can imagine many people could fall into that
situation since a Vista installation is much larger than an XP installation
(plus partitions are being used so much these days). With Microsoft's
campaign to check if your PC is ready for Vista, it seems logical to think
that many people will buy new harddrives when it's determined that the one
they currently have has insufficient space. They may buy the upgrade version
thinking that they're alright since they have Windows XP. I just see a
possible source of trouble for users who haven't exactly been following along
100% about how the Vista upgrade version works. It's even been a little
tricky to find the clear answer for users who have been following along
(really glad these newsgroups are here just for that).

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Yes. However, forget Win9x/ME. You cannot use a Vista upgrade edition with
any Windows prior to Win2k SP4.

Vista will not ask for shiny media. It will only scan the system for an
installed OS and must find Win2k, XP SP2, or XP Pro x64. If it doesn't
there is no way to install from an ugrade edition.

If someone is unable to recover to a preinstalled OS then there is no way to
rebuild a system unless they had imaged the system and could restore Vista
that way.

CD's count for nothing anymore. There must be a genuine copy of Windows
installed on the computer before you can use a Vista upgrade edition.

It is the user's responsibility to ensure that he can recover his system.

 

[Guest]

Jason's on my wave length.
I'm in the PC repair business.
My rhetorical question:

I have a customer with an Upgrade Vista who's HD crashed. The original
recovery version of XP was mounted on a partition, no recovery CD was
provided.

How do I restore/reinstall her Vista Upgrade to the new HD?
Call Compaq/HP/eMachine, etc. for an XP recovery CD for the machine, pay
$10/20 for it and wait for delivery? When received, install the original XP
than do the upgrade install of the Vista Upgrade?

Very few of my customers are "Geeky" but they will go for Vista because of
all the hype.. They don't have mirrored versionsof XP. I'm lucky if they've
even got backups.

I know this is an MS question but maybe one of the MVP's around has some
input.
It also forces me to purchase the full version since I'm always cleaning my
own HD.
Pete

 

[Guest]

This new upgrade system is totally crazy. This means that I will now have to
spend two hours installing XP before I can install Vista. Is the reward for
being a loyal customer? It's more and more bothersome being a loyal customer
these days. We're all made criminals now, just because some don't want to pay
for a Windows lisence.

 

[Guest]

upgrade version
you install vista within the existing OS
but have the choise to install on second Hard drive /partition

 

[Guest]

So a user with a Vista upgrade who has a hard drive failure, and whose XP
recovery was on that drive, is SOL unless they can get one from the Mfg.
And if that was unavailable, even legitimatly, they would have to purchase a
full version of Vista.
Of course this answer from Colin:
"CD's count for nothing anymore. There must be a genuine copy of Windows
installed on the computer before you can use a Vista upgrade edition.

It is the user's responsibility to ensure that he can recover his system."

doesn't mean squat to an average home PC user when he was told his recovery
was on the PC.
("Hard drive? What's a hard drive?)

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

There will be angry folks, as always, but no one here can change how Vista
works. My advice is too keep an old Win2k cd around so that you can assist
customers who only have their Vista upgrade editions. Since Win2k does not
require activation, installing it for the purpose of installing the Vista
upgrade edition would work as a practical matter even though purists like me
might raise an eyebrow.