Can I Be Of Service?

R

RichardF

First things first - this offer is being made to developers
at Microsoft or others associated with Microsoft's new
anti-spyware software.

I will not answer any individual questions asking how to
remove __ version of a particular spyware program. I can
tell each of you that you are not running the original
version of spyware on any of your computers.

I am the person who invented spyware. As a matter of fact,
spyware has been around MUCH longer than most of you
realize and in its' infancy, was released by a company that
is a member of Microsoft's MSDN program back in 1999.

Every version of spyware you see offered on the internet is
a derivative of what I created.

I am willing to help the developers of Microsoft's
Anti-Spyware team in their efforts - this includes offering
them a first hand view of the backend administration as
well as the source code for spyware.

I can think of no better way for your developers to come up
with a solution than to get a first hand view of what
spyware is actually capable of doing, seeing it in action
and access to source code.

If this offer meets with a positive response from those to
whom the offer is made - I will respond in kind with
contact information and we can go from there.

Richard
 
J

John

You invented spyware or anti-spyware software?

Just getting a rope ready based on your answer.
 
S

Steve Wechsler [MVP]

LOL ... that's like someone claiming they invented a disease and is now
volunteering to cure it. I'm sure a great deal of the posters in these
NG's would love to "meet" this person. ;)

Steve Wechsler (akaMowGreen)

MS-MVP 2004-2005
Windows Server - Software Distribution
Windows - Security
 
B

Bill Sanderson

As RichardF's reply in another group (.signatures?) points up, much of what
Microsoft Antispyware is removing is the product of commercial enterprise.
Some of these vendors are more supportive of the consumer who wishes to
remove their product than others.

If the vendor does have an uninstall application, which is both effective,
and not requiring PII to acquire nor adding further software to the system,
that uninstall is probably the best remedy.
 
S

Steve Moss

The really amusing part of RobertF's post is that he most probably
actually believes in his own worth.
 
R

RichardF

Some of you guys crack me up - entertaining if nothing else
and I'm leaning toward the "nothing else".

I apologize if you thought my intent was to try and impress
any of you - you were surely mistaken - though I could give
you the necessary patent information or fly a [MVP] next to
my name like Steve does if that were my intent (yes, I've
got one of those too).

Bill, you are correct that I did post in another forum
regarding another spyware and that retrieving an uninstall
utility directly from them is the best course of action -
but so few actually provide one. The majority of the
spyware out there is malicious in nature and the people
distributing it do not want you to find out who they are -
much less provide you with an uninstall utility.

That particular version is from a company in Canada - the
owner, Karl, was one of 6 of my original partners.

In any event, the offer is genuine and still stands.
 
J

John

So you did invent spyware and not anti-spyware. I could not tell from your
post.

What is your intent by asking here if MS is interested in you? Why not call
Bill himself and meet like Dave Cutler and many others after him? Why play
the mystery game in a near useless newsgroup instead of starting your own
software company to combat what you started and play both ends of this
nuisance?

Feeling responsible? Guilty? Broke?

What's your story?

I'm a curious person - i could care less about whether you would impress
anyone - I know the guy that invented chemlites and the guy who invented VCR
Plus - heck, I'm related to two presidents, so what. I'm curious about what
you are really trying to do here.

How about it - a mini-series right here, one post at a time.
 
G

Guest

Question for RichardF: Since Spyware has been around for
a long time, do you have any thoughts on why all the
focus now? I assume that well written Spyware will do
(and has been doing) its job without user involvement or
knowledge. I'm wondering if it is because system
stability is now affected?
 
B

Bill Sanderson

I didn't have any doubt. I've passed the information on.
I would think you might have better results by contacting Microsoft directly
in a less public way.

Steve Dodson is certainly an appropriate person to make that contact. You
can see his contact information in these groups.

Jason Joyce would be another. His posts head this group. You need to
remove the extraneous word and dot in front of Microsoft to get the email
correct.
 
R

RichardF

Bill,

You're a gentleman - thanks for passing along the info to
people that may be interested in my offer.

That John, is exactly why I posted here - because I don't
believe this is a useless forum. People that know the right
people read these messages. I have developed new software
(relax - it's legit) and my day is pretty well booked. I
don't have time to go chasing down people and offering
help. They very well may not be interested in my offer and
if not, I've only wasted a few minutes posting here. I am
but a short distance from the Microsoft campus - but I
don't think knocking on the door and making an offer is the
best course of action or use of my time.

If anti-spyware makers want into a world they would
otherwise not have access to - this is their opportunity. I
also do not produce any anti-spyware software. I also do
not feel responsible, guilty nor am I broke.

If I were to best describe my reasons it would be disgust.
I created an incredible marketing tool and it has been
turned into a malicious piece of software. Right now there
are 2 companies in court fighting over one spyware
application that removes the others. Enough is enough
already...

Trying to tackle spyware installations running a scan on
the pc is a band-aid application to a major wound. It is
NOT going to heal the problem.

I don't think you guys have an adequate comprehension of
just how much revenue is being generated.

To kill the beast - you have to remove the money and to
remove the money you have to see exactly how it's being
generated and to do that, you need to have access that, and
I may be mistaking in my thought process here, not
something anyone who makes anti-spyware software will ever
gain access to under normal circumstances.

There are too many loopholes that allow for spyware
distributors to put software onto your machine and once
it's there - they own you.

If you build safeguards directly into the browser that
prevents "things" (that I won't go into here) from
happening, you kill the beast. A heart isn't worth much if
there is no blood to pump.
 
J

John

Thanks for your reply.

I would have thought there would be a lot better way to get your talents on
track than here but if you insist.

I think it should be obvious to the observant person that there must be a
lot of money in adware because of the pure onslaught. You are right about
the band-aid approach though. And, history is replete with examples of the
typical human behavior of turning good into evil. It's what humans do best.
There are inventors turning over in their graves over what has happened with
their ideas.

Good luck getting someone to take you up on your offer. maybe they think
they already knwo what you know - or maybe there isn't a true interest in
stopping ALL the adware. This could be a toll booth.


JohnF.
 
S

Steve Wechsler [MVP]

Glad there's a link to Ben Edelman's site included. Good article.
Ben breaks down the money invested by "legitimate" investors in the
crudware companies ... $139 MILLION ! :

Investors Supporting Spyware
http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/investors


Steve Wechsler (akaMowGreen)

MS-MVP 2004-2005
Windows Server - Software Distribution
Windows - Security
 
M

Microsoft

Richard, your story actually rings true. I will assume you are legitimate.
You correctly point out that there is a great deal of money involved in
spyware, but I would wonder what percentage of spyware is advertising, and
what percentage is simply malicious.

It seems that the best solution would be to first make this sort of
intrusion a felony, punishable by huge fine and imprisonment. I would make
this applicable to the companies whose products are advertised as well as
the spyware-mongers and spammers themselves. As much of this garbage moves
to offshore operations, some sort of sanctioning of the foreign ISP would
have to occur. I do not know if such a mechanism exists, but it is rapidly
becomming a necessity. If the criminal avenue never materializes, civil
suits should be brought in the form of class actions on behalf of all
internet users; a large judgement against some major marketer,
manufacturers, and even ISP's ought to send a very strong message to cease
and desist.

As the "father" of this deliquent child, how do you respond?
 
R

RichardF

Out of curiosity, why do you sign your post as Microsoft
yet use an AOL account as your email address? I would
assume that you wanted to attract my attention by using
misdirection - you want something so you use a "less than
ethical" method to accomplish it.

Welcome to spyware - you're a trainee extraordinaire!

I'm going to explain something in very basic layman's terms
because I so often see confusion when people attempt to
discuss a problem with their computers.

A virus is something on your computer that generally is
there for the sole purpose of causing damage on some level
to a computer.

A trojan is something on your computer that allows another
person in a remote location to gain access (and possibly
control of) to your computer without your knowledge.

Spyware is a program that "watches" what you are doing and
executes "something" based upon either your actions or the
website you are visiting.

Just so you know, when I created my software, I didn't call
it spyware - I called in Intelliware.

If you have kept up with advertising on the internet over
the last 4-5 years, you've watched an incredible change in
both the cost of the ads as well as the conversion ratio's
of those ads.

I won't go into all of the details of that - it's just as
easily explained and you can keep up with the story by
knowing they've both dropped like a rock.

If Company A wants to advertise their wares to online
consumers they are limited to 3 main avenues:

- A placement in a search engine where they compete against
other companies offering the same/similar wares and have
placements in the same search engine for the same keywords
- Buying advertising on a website
- Having an affiliate program where they share profits to
individuals/companies that bring in sales


I wanted to be able to provide companies a way to talk to
their customers without limitations based upon what site
the customers were currently viewing - meaning that if
company A had bought advertising on website A,B and C and
had affiliates showing their advertisements on websites D -
T, there was no system in place to communicate with the
customer if they were on website U-Z because those websites
are not affiliates of Company A nor has Company A purchased
advertising space on their site. Factor in the fact that
very few websites only show 1 advertisement on their page
then you begin to understand how/why advertising
rates/conversions have dropped like a rock.

I wanted to change that - and, I did.

If a customer was on Site A doing a search for a book - I
could offer Site B a way to talk to the customer before
they made a purchase - but that wasn't good enough for me.
I wanted to know exactly what book the customer was
interested in. If you're going to talk to a customer - it
helps to know the exact subject they're currently
interested in.

So, when they do that search a book on Site A and Site A
gives the customer the results (as well as the price of
that book) - I could communicate with the customer by
telling them that Site B sells that same book for less.
Site A has spent countless dollars advertising their
company across thousands of websites as well as print
media. Site B only has to pay me a commission for the sale.
Which company do you think is going to have the higher
profit margin?

Now you can begin to understand why so many company's
purchase advertising on spyware.

That's just 1 example of the features I incorporated into
my software but you can see where I took this.

A couple of things to know about me - I didn't stealth
install my Intelliware onto computers and it came with a
EULA that told the customer exactly what I would do. I
didn't data mine the customer for any personal information.
I could care less who was using my software or where they
were from on a personal level. I could - but I didn't.
That's not to say I didn't know how or how others do
accomplish it - it's just (and believe me or not) an
ethical line I'm not willing to cross. I'm also a firm
believer that you don't make much money from angry
customers. If you wanted to uninstall my software - I let you.

Now, back to your question Ralph - "but I would wonder what
percentage of spyware is advertising, and what percentage
is simply malicious?"

The short answer is 95% advertising - 5% malicious. It's a
big world and you never have to travel very far to find
someone who's true intent is harmful in nature.

The long answer is much more complicated than that. You
have spyware that does nothing more than auto installs
other software without your permission or knowledge. It
changes its' process name repeatedly, hides itself inside
system files and the registry. This is why I mentioned in
an earlier post that "scanning" a system is a band-aid
approach to eliminating this problem - though still a
useful one.

You also have to factor in incredibly poor programming and
logic by the person who writes the code for X named
spyware. Many spyware programs use a local proxy to
accomplish what they do. Now if you have 2 or more programs
vying to secure your machines proxy settings - only 1 is
going to get it - but both programs are running on the
machine and trying to "execute" when the surfer does
something of interest. Now you have a program "trying" to
do something but since it doesn't have the proxy settings
secured - it uses system resources and your computer
performance is affected. I haven't come across too many
software applications that crash because it couldn't secure
a computer proxy setting. Now put 3-4-5 or even 6 spyware
applications on your machine and we're off to the races and
your car is going to come in last!

Any network administrator worth his salt doesn't allow
users to change network settings so it only takes 1 spyware
application repeatedly trying to change them to slow down a
pc at work.

Also factor in that many spyware servers are located in
offshore countries - that's a lot of hops and if their
server goes down or is just unreachable - your computer
grinds to a halt because they didn't put any safeguards on
what to do if that happens.

The software I created doesn't use socks or proxies and has
safeguards in place so a user won't be hung up if they
can't reach my server - remember, I called my software
Intelliware for a reason :)

As far as legal remedies to the solution - it's not going
to be a solution any time soon. We, as Americans, often
forget that there are PLENTY of countries where our laws
don't mean anything and spyware companies know exactly
where to set up shop.

Congress can stand on their desks, pass their laws and
stomp their feet all they want. The only solution to the
problem will come from 1 Microsoft Way - building 16 to be
more precise.
 
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RichardF said:
First things first - this offer is being made to developers
at Microsoft or others associated with Microsoft's new
anti-spyware software.

I will not answer any individual questions asking how to
remove __ version of a particular spyware program. I can
tell each of you that you are not running the original
version of spyware on any of your computers.

I am the person who invented spyware. As a matter of fact,
spyware has been around MUCH longer than most of you
realize and in its' infancy, was released by a company that
is a member of Microsoft's MSDN program back in 1999.

Every version of spyware you see offered on the internet is
a derivative of what I created.

I am willing to help the developers of Microsoft's
Anti-Spyware team in their efforts - this includes offering
them a first hand view of the backend administration as
well as the source code for spyware.

I can think of no better way for your developers to come up
with a solution than to get a first hand view of what
spyware is actually capable of doing, seeing it in action
and access to source code.

If this offer meets with a positive response from those to
whom the offer is made - I will respond in kind with
contact information and we can go from there.

Richard


Richard,

You are a complete piece of ****. I dare you to come to Texas and meet me.
 
Last edited:

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