Can homebuilt be cheaper than Dell??

[Stephan]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last looked, price
for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

Have things changed? I need a new system. Nothing fancy, but I need very
good dual monitor support. Hyper threading Pentium sounds ok too.

What about these new SFF barebones systems such as Shuttle?

Can anyone recomment an online seller for barebones systems? I just want a
box that will let me choose a precessor and video card.

Thanks, Jeff

 

[Al Dykes]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last looked, price
for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

Have things changed? I need a new system. Nothing fancy, but I need very
good dual monitor support. Hyper threading Pentium sounds ok too.

What about these new SFF barebones systems such as Shuttle?

Can anyone recomment an online seller for barebones systems? I just want a
box that will let me choose a precessor and video card.

Thanks, Jeff

It depends.

I just priced all the parts for a good mid-range machine on newegg.com
and it came up to $260 (no monitor, no software). This was for a
business that had a site license for XP/Pro, Office, and Outlook.

This is an Athlon 1.6GHZ system with 256MB ram, Asus A7N8X-Delux mobo,
everything on the motherboard, 7600RPM WD disk, CD reader, case&PS,
floppy, MS intellimouse and kbd. XP is $91 when bought with hardware.
So it's under $400 with shipping, DIY assembly. I think a Dell system
would be a couple hundred more, apples-to-apples comparison.

Dell can sell you software bundles and add-ons. If you need MSOffice,
travel navigation and mapping software or games, or a printer, a PDA,
or a digicam they may make you an offer you can't refuse. They are
almost giving LCD monitors away with a system purchase, sometines.
Configure a Dell system on the web site, print it out and call up a
Dell salesman and see if he can sell any software that's not on the
web site yet or is a special-of-the-day. Make sure you really need it,
and that it's really a bargin.

The 3-year onsite repair warranty option is great for people that
use the PC for work with serious deadlines.

 

[Big Daddy]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last looked,
price for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

Have things changed? I need a new system. Nothing fancy, but I need very
good dual monitor support. Hyper threading Pentium sounds ok too.

What about these new SFF barebones systems such as Shuttle?

Can anyone recomment an online seller for barebones systems? I just want a
box that will let me choose a precessor and video card.

My brother just built a system with an Asus P4P800 Deluxe (Intel 865PE
chipset), 3.0 GHz P4 800 MHz FSB, 512 MB Corsair dual channel DDR3200 (with
heat spreaders), ATi Radeon 9600 video card, 2 Maxtor 80 GB SATA 8 MB cache
drives in RAID 0 stripe, used onboard 5.1 channel surround, Logitech Z680
5.1 channel 500 watt speaker system, 52X CD-R/RW, 16X DVD, and an Antec
SX835II case w/ 350 watt quality power supply. He already had a keyboard,
mouse, and printer and I gave him a nice 19" Viewsonic monitor. Total money
spent: $1100 including all taxes and shipping. You couldn't touch that from
Dell even if you didn't get a monitor and printer from them for that price.
Smart shopping pays off... Software? He moved all his stuff over from his
old system. No need to repurchase the stuff that you'd be forced to do
buying from an OEM. This is top notch equipment in this computer.

To boot, he has overclocked his system using Asus's built-in auto
overclocking feature by 10%, which is impossible on any OEM system other
than custom makers like Alienware or Falcon Northwest. Gateway, Dell, HP?
Forgetaboutit... We're going to try and take the overclock slightly higher
using manual methods.

My favorite online reseller is ZipZoomFly. A lot of people recommend New
Egg, but I personally am not high on them. They gave me 2nd day air
delivery free, but it took them 4 days to ship the product and it was in
stock. I've gotten all kinds of stuff delivered by ZipZoomFly in 2 or 3
days using the free 2nd day air.

 

[Hank Oredson]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last looked, price
for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

Probably Dell beats the homebrew.

Have things changed? I need a new system. Nothing fancy, but I need very
good dual monitor support. Hyper threading Pentium sounds ok too.

What about these new SFF barebones systems such as Shuttle?

Can anyone recomment an online seller for barebones systems? I just want a
box that will let me choose a precessor and video card.

Thanks, Jeff

I look at this about once each quarter. It's time to change out my
machine. I've built a few dozen home brew so that is not
an issue. However when I compare price of doing it myself
vs. purchasing a Dell ... Dell mostly is a win for me. Not a gamer,
do develop some software, don't watch video, do listen to a lot
of MP3 music, do a lot of email / newsgroups, lots of web browsing.
Like a fast machine, have dual monitor setup, want the same.

When I do upgrade, most likely early next year, will buy a Dell
and add my own "extra stuff" to it, just like I've done with this
XPS T550 and like my wife has done with her 8200 ...

Why not build our own? We've done that many times in the
past, but nowdays it seems that buying the base machine from
Dell and then upgrading as needed is a much better deal.

YMMV.

--

... Hank

Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net

 

[Don Marshall]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last looked,
price for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

Depending on what you buy, these options are not too far apart. Another
poster mentioned that Dell nearly gives away flatscreens. Something like
that can definately swing the balance if price is your only goal.

You can build much better quality for not much more money.

 

[Larc]

| Why not build our own? We've done that many times in the
| past, but nowdays it seems that buying the base machine from
| Dell and then upgrading as needed is a much better deal.

Most of the Dells I've worked on haven't provided much latitude for upgrading
other than replacement of what's already there. There aren't usually enough
extra slots to add much stuff, even IF the BIOS can handle it.

Larc



§§§ - Please raise temperature of mail to reply by e-mail - §§§

 

[Lefty]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last
looked, price for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

Have things changed? [...]

my call ... if you want a p4 system in one of the configurations that dell
puts on special (we probably all watch www.techbargains.com(*)), then no you
can't beat it.

if you want an amd system and/or can recycle a good fraction of old hw, then
maybe you can beat them.

if you want a configuration dell pushes out to premium pricing, your chances
are better (although buying outside the sweet-spot brings its own penalty).

fwiw, i noticed a lot of new-in-box dells in the 2.4/2.6ghz range on ebay.
not sure what's up with that, but they look really hard to beat.

* - a lot easier now that i subscribe to their rss feed

 

[newsgroup1]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last looked, price
for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

It really depends, if you are starting from scratch then a Dell system
would work out cheaper. However you could save a fortune with a
simple mobo/CPU upgrade.

When I upgrade I only upgrade the mobo, CPU/fan and a new case,
then transfer all the other stuff from the old pc to the new one.


Matt (UK)

 

[zimanet]

if you want a configuration dell pushes out to premium pricing, your chances
are better (although buying outside the sweet-spot brings its own penalty).

Could you translate it for me?

Don't reply to the above address - its sole purpose is to trap SPAM!

 

[Lefty]

Could you translate it for me?

i'm an old timer. i've bought computers and peripherals since the late
1970s. it is shocking now when i look back at some of the prces i paid ...
$400 for a floppy drive, $700 for a 70m hard disk, $600 for a 2400 baud
modem, $400-600 (can't remember exactly) for my first 1x read-only cdrom
drive. all of those were "good deals" at the time, too.

in retrospect, i can see what waiting a little longer for each would have
saved. i think actually the rate of price descent (look at dvd writers) has
increased, so the effect is magnified.

that doesn't mean i refuse to buy what i "need" (to accomplish some goal),
but i put a harder test now on things i "want" (because they're cool).

so if you need someting, buy it.

but if you want something, waiting for it to hit the sweet spot in the
market will save a bundle ... especially over 20 years of computer buying.

 

[Al Dykes]

Could you translate it for me?

i'm an old timer. i've bought computers and peripherals since the late
1970s. it is shocking now when i look back at some of the prces i paid ...
$400 for a floppy drive, $700 for a 70m hard disk, $600 for a 2400 baud
modem, $400-600 (can't remember exactly) for my first 1x read-only cdrom
drive. all of those were "good deals" at the time, too.

I, or the company I worked for, paid $60,000 for a 200MB disk drive,
many of them, actually. This was mainframe days, circa 1979. They had
to be kept on a maintanance contract that cost about $250/month/disk.
I think the electric bill/per year cost more than a IDE disk now.
These things weighed about 400 pounds.

 

[Larc]

On 29 Dec 2003 16:18:16 -0500, Al Dykes pondered exceedingly, then took quill in
hand and carefully composed...

| I, or the company I worked for, paid $60,000 for a 200MB disk drive,
| many of them, actually. This was mainframe days, circa 1979. They had
| to be kept on a maintanance contract that cost about $250/month/disk.
| I think the electric bill/per year cost more than a IDE disk now.
| These things weighed about 400 pounds.

And I thought the first 1GB hard drive I ever saw was a bargain at $10,000. If
somebody had told me then I'd be seeing hard drives 200 times that size for less
than 80¢ per GB, I'd have thought they were crazy!

Larc



§§§ - Please raise temperature of mail to reply by e-mail - §§§

 

[Byte Bucket]

On 29 Dec 2003 16:18:16 -0500, Al Dykes pondered exceedingly, then took quill in
hand and carefully composed...

| I, or the company I worked for, paid $60,000 for a 200MB disk drive,
| many of them, actually. This was mainframe days, circa 1979. They had
| to be kept on a maintanance contract that cost about $250/month/disk.
| I think the electric bill/per year cost more than a IDE disk now.
| These things weighed about 400 pounds.

And I thought the first 1GB hard drive I ever saw was a bargain at $10,000. If
somebody had told me then I'd be seeing hard drives 200 times that size for less
than 80¢ per GB, I'd have thought they were crazy!

My first box of 3.5" floppies was about $85....

 

[Mini Me]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last looked, price
for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

Have things changed? I need a new system. Nothing fancy, but I need very
good dual monitor support. Hyper threading Pentium sounds ok too.

What about these new SFF barebones systems such as Shuttle?

Can anyone recomment an online seller for barebones systems? I just want a
box that will let me choose a precessor and video card.

For a complete system including buying a new copy of XP and other
software... Probably not. Depends on how good you are at shopping.

The advantage to homebrew is mostly when it's time to upgrade an
existing computer because you can often re-use many parts.

I just upgraded my computer and re-used my DVD burner, CD burner, hard
drives, RAM, case, etc. I just bought a new motherboard, CPU/fan, and
video card and got a MUCH faster/better system. I was even able to
offset most of the new parts cost by selling the old parts on eBay. So
the total cost for moving from an Athlon XP 1800+ system to a Athlon XP
3000+ and an ATI AIW RADEON 7500 to a ATI AIW RADEON 9800 Pro was
roughly $300. And my new motherboard supports SATA and has built-in
Firewire.

It would have cost me a lot more to get a similar system from Dell or
any other big system provider and sell my old system.

 

[Ed Medlin]

Could you translate it for me?

i'm an old timer. i've bought computers and peripherals since the late
1970s. it is shocking now when i look back at some of the prces i paid ....
$400 for a floppy drive, $700 for a 70m hard disk, $600 for a 2400 baud
modem, $400-600 (can't remember exactly) for my first 1x read-only cdrom
drive. all of those were "good deals" at the time, too.

in retrospect, i can see what waiting a little longer for each would have
saved. i think actually the rate of price descent (look at dvd writers) has
increased, so the effect is magnified.

that doesn't mean i refuse to buy what i "need" (to accomplish some goal),
but i put a harder test now on things i "want" (because they're cool).

so if you need someting, buy it.

but if you want something, waiting for it to hit the sweet spot in the
market will save a bundle ... especially over 20 years of computer buying.

I, too, am an old timer and have worked in the field since the early 70s
when even a decent 100-300bd printer was over $10,000 (Teletype/IBM
Selectric IO/GE belt). I have also found that if I WANT something that I can
wait forever because by the time the price comes down, something newer that
I want even more comes out...... Things changed quickly back then, but
nothing like it is now. The reason I like homebuilt better is that I can put
what I want into the system and not what Dell, or others, say I want.
Upgradeability is also a big consideration. It is all a personal decision.
In general, building your own will cost a little bit more but you will have
the components YOU want in the system.


Ed

 

[Lefty]

I, too, am an old timer and have worked in the field since the early
70s when even a decent 100-300bd printer was over $10,000
(Teletype/IBM Selectric IO/GE belt). I have also found that if I WANT
something that I can wait forever because by the time the price comes
down, something newer that I want even more comes out...... Things
changed quickly back then, but nothing like it is now. The reason I
like homebuilt better is that I can put what I want into the system
and not what Dell, or others, say I want. Upgradeability is also a
big consideration. It is all a personal decision. In general,
building your own will cost a little bit more but you will have the
components YOU want in the system.

ok, i haven't done the graph ... but when we say "sweet spot" i think there
is an idea of a curve ... that as you move up in cpu speed or whatever, you
get better mips/$ until it falls off again. or more hd gb/$ until it falls
off again. etc.

i probably wouldn't buy a 1ghz duron in today's market, but i wouldn't buy a
3.2ghz p4 either. i'd probably pick something in the ~2.54ghz range as my
place on the curve. everybody gets to choose their place.

but i really appreciate those who buy the latest cpus ... they're paying for
the r&d

 

[Larc]

| ok, i haven't done the graph ... but when we say "sweet spot" i think there
| is an idea of a curve ... that as you move up in cpu speed or whatever, you
| get better mips/$ until it falls off again. or more hd gb/$ until it falls
| off again. etc.
|
| i probably wouldn't buy a 1ghz duron in today's market, but i wouldn't buy a
| 3.2ghz p4 either. i'd probably pick something in the ~2.54ghz range as my
| place on the curve. everybody gets to choose their place.

For a P4, the 2.6C GHz appears to be the sweet spot now. It's very easily over
clockable and is only $174 for the retail version from Newegg (shipping free).
That's only $9 more than the retail 2.4C GHz.

Larc



§§§ - Please raise temperature of mail to reply by e-mail - §§§

 

[Ancra]

Hey everyone,

It has been years since I've priced out parts, but when I last looked, price
for homebuilt was similar to just getting a Dell.

Have things changed? I need a new system. Nothing fancy, but I need very
good dual monitor support. Hyper threading Pentium sounds ok too.

There's three things wrong with Dell. If you wan't exactly the
components Dell are offering, their price is probably good. My
impression is however that Dell is just as troublesome and frustrating
to upgrade as any other brand name proprietary piece of shit.

The second problem is that on their only reasonably performing CPUs at
reasonable prices, the video is underbalanced. I'm sure this is good
for Dells and Intels profit. It's not good value performance though.
Much better PC's are accomplished by less CPU and more videocard.
People tend to buy GHz though, not performance, I suppose that's how
Dell figure it.

The third problem is that Dell only do Intel. Since AMD is currently
superiour at every level, you don't get good allround performance for
your money. Only thing the P4 is better at, is video encoding. In some
computing areas, AI, scalar FP, as well as many applications that are
two or more years old, Intel would need 4-6 GHz to keep pace.

This problem becomes extreme with Dells budget machines. These are
built with Celerons. And the new Celerons are _EXTREMELY_SLOW_! Even
the fastest available, 2.7GHz, is hardly significantly faster than an
old PIII. And AMD's slowest, 1.6GHz Duron is considerably faster. And
this is on the usual benchmarks, that are highly optimized for their
P4-core, and most of the time, do not give a realistic indication of
how they will perform on most budget users apps.


ancra

 

[xtive_ax]

There's three things wrong with Dell. If you wan't exactly the
components Dell are offering, their price is probably good. My
impression is however that Dell is just as troublesome and frustrating
to upgrade as any other brand name proprietary piece of shit.

The second problem is that on their only reasonably performing CPUs at
reasonable prices, the video is underbalanced. I'm sure this is good
for Dells and Intels profit. It's not good value performance though.
Much better PC's are accomplished by less CPU and more videocard.
People tend to buy GHz though, not performance, I suppose that's how
Dell figure it.

The third problem is that Dell only do Intel. Since AMD is currently
superiour at every level, you don't get good allround performance for
your money. Only thing the P4 is better at, is video encoding. In some
computing areas, AI, scalar FP, as well as many applications that are
two or more years old, Intel would need 4-6 GHz to keep pace.

This problem becomes extreme with Dells budget machines. These are
built with Celerons. And the new Celerons are _EXTREMELY_SLOW_! Even
the fastest available, 2.7GHz, is hardly significantly faster than an
old PIII. And AMD's slowest, 1.6GHz Duron is considerably faster. And
this is on the usual benchmarks, that are highly optimized for their
P4-core, and most of the time, do not give a realistic indication of
how they will perform on most budget users apps.


ancra

Yes, celerons are dog slow - just check out the report "battle of the 'rons"
on anandtech.com. In the arena of budget processors, amd cpus just wipe
floors with cpus from intel. I've seen combo of Duron 1.6Ghz + ECS motherboard
for $40 in nearby stores, so I'd say definitely homebuilt can be significantly
cheaper than built by dell.

But even the high end intel/dell equipment dosen't offer very good performance.
I have a 3Ghz P4 dell box, and I am dis-satisfied with some of the lags that
I get in performance. Plus the box would be a nightmare to upgrade also,
given that hardware is often non-standard, and also bios is completely
propriatary and with very few options available to end user to adjust.
I much prefer normal bios available on "clone" motherboards with tons of
user tweakable options. I tried to install win98 on this 3.0 Ghz P4 box
from dell, and it was extremely annoying to say the least, with the bios
continually resetting the memory available size to 256M automagically from 1
Gig actually availalble.

-xtx

 

[zimanet]

ok, i haven't done the graph ... but when we say "sweet spot" i think there
is an idea of a curve ... that as you move up in cpu speed or whatever, you
get better mips/$ until it falls off again. or more hd gb/$ until it falls
off again. etc.

i probably wouldn't buy a 1ghz duron in today's market, but i wouldn't buy a
3.2ghz p4 either. i'd probably pick something in the ~2.54ghz range as my
place on the curve. everybody gets to choose their place.

but i really appreciate those who buy the latest cpus ... they're paying for
the r&d

What a great technical discussion after I asked a purely linguistic question
about "sweet spot"!

I finally figured it out, thank you.
P.S. I myself contributed to the r&d a lot - a 28k Courier modem for 450
bucks, $5,000 for Apple Cinema Display, etc.

Please don¹t reply to the address above ‹ it¹s a spam trap. If you want to
send me a message you can do it via any of my sites below.