Booting to D

[Bill]

OS = Windows XP Home SP2

I have 2 hds - C and D

In setup:
D = Drive 0 - SATA 0
C = Drive 1 - SATA 1

Control Panel - System - Device Manager shows the same thing

If I right click on a icon on the quick launch bar it shoes D as the
location of the program. All seems to be working fine, but I am not sure
booting to D is OK. I want to add a 3rd HD and put Windows Vista Beta 2 on
it and use VistaBootPro to choose between systems. I thought it might be a
good idea to get the C/D thing corrected before I add more drives.

I believe the problem started when I booted the machine with the cable to C
disconnected, not on purpose. I have tried switching the cables at the
motherboard and can boot to the welcome screen but it doesn't say "windows
is starting" and goes no further.

Any ideas appreciated.
I have already yelled at myself and taken away my eating veggies privileges
for a month<G>

Bill

 

[Guest]

As it would appear that D is the boot partition there is nothing that you
could do to change it at this time. Should you decide to reinstall XP you
could then rename\reorder\reassign partitions. There are 3rd party software
programs that will allow you to rename partitions, but in XP the active
partition(boot) cannot be renamed. You can rename the other partitions though
in the MMC. TTFN.

 

[Bill]

I found out I could not rename C or D (each a separate hard drive). C could
not be renamed because it had a ''pagefile'' on it - Oh well, such is life
at times.......................thanks - Bill


As it would appear that D is the boot partition there is nothing that you
could do to change it at this time. Should you decide to reinstall XP you
could then rename\reorder\reassign partitions. There are 3rd party software
programs that will allow you to rename partitions, but in XP the active
partition(boot) cannot be renamed. You can rename the other partitions
though
in the MMC. TTFN.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition? Is it having a shortcut with
"D:" as the root? BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)

*TimDaniels*

 

[Bill]

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition?
YES - I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT HAD TO BOOT TO C

Is it having a shortcut with "D:" as the root?
YES - IF IN FACT IT IS A PROBLEM


BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
IT IS A DELL PENTIUM 4 XPS GEN 5


Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)
C AND D ARE TWO SEPARATE HARD DRIVES
ORIGINALLY I USED D AS A CLONE OF C FOR BACKUP
NOW THEY ARE REVERSED
ALL WORKS FINE -

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

I MAY BE THE PROBLEM HERE



*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

 

[Bill]

Timothy,

Thanks for that awesome reply. I am going to have to print it out, study it
and go from there. It is way over my current knowledge base - it will be
good to learn new things.

Thanks again,
Bill

The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

 

[Bill]

Timothy,

This is the line under ''operating systems'' in boot.ini

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)Windows = "Microsoft Windows XP Home
edition"/noexecute option/fastdetect


It doesn't seem to have the second rdsk option you mentioned - so I guess it
is not already set up for multi booting.

Bill





The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I hope the reply wasn't *too* awesome. If you have more
questions (highly likely), just post them.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

Thanks for that awesome reply. I am going to have to print it out, study it
and go from there. It is way over my current knowledge base - it will be
good to learn new things.

Thanks again,
Bill

:
The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition?
YES - I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT HAD TO BOOT TO C

Is it having a shortcut with "D:" as the root?
YES - IF IN FACT IT IS A PROBLEM


BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
IT IS A DELL PENTIUM 4 XPS GEN 5


Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)
C AND D ARE TWO SEPARATE HARD DRIVES
ORIGINALLY I USED D AS A CLONE OF C FOR BACKUP
NOW THEY ARE REVERSED
ALL WORKS FINE -

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

I MAY BE THE PROBLEM HERE



*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

You don't say which HD and which partition contains
that boot.ini. Remember that one partition on each
HD contains a clone, and they should both contain
the boot files of the original. I suspect that both
partitions contain boot files, and it is the HD boot
order that determines which set of boot files are used.

The *default* HD boot order for SATA HDs is
SATA ch. 0,
SATA ch. 1.

*If* you haven't inadvertently (or advertently) changed
the HD boot order in the BIOS, your HD which you call
"D:" is the at the head of the HD boot order, and it can
be called the "boot drive". Since you have only one
partition on each HD which are also marked "active"),
those partitions can each be called a "boot partition".

Assuming that the boot.ini files of both partition's are
identical, all you have to do to make them *both* dual-boot
menus, is to add another entry with the "rdisk(0)" changed
to "rdisk(1)", the timeout value set to something around 5
to 10, and the default entry's "rdisk()" set to "rdisk(0)".

That will give the meaning "this disk" to the "rdisk(0)"
entry and "the other disk" to the "rdisk(1)" entry, and
"this disk" to the default entry. In this context, "this"
means the HD at the head of the HD boot order, i.e.
the HD on SATA channel 0.

If, for some reason, you want to use the boot files on
the channel 1 SATA HD, just go into the BIOS - usually
by pressing the Delete key on Dell machines when
the machine goes beep or makes a grinding sound
during the initial booting procedure - and navigate to
the section that sets the *HD* boot order (not just the
device boot order). See your owner's manual for
details on the BIOS. That will allow you to control
booting from your 2nd HD in case the 1st HD gets
flakey.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

This is the line under ''operating systems'' in boot.ini

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)Windows =
"Microsoft Windows XP Home edition"/noexecute option/fastdetect


It doesn't seem to have the second rdsk option you mentioned -
so I guess it is not already set up for multi booting.

Bill


The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition?
YES - I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT HAD TO BOOT TO C

Is it having a shortcut with "D:" as the root?
YES - IF IN FACT IT IS A PROBLEM


BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
IT IS A DELL PENTIUM 4 XPS GEN 5


Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)
C AND D ARE TWO SEPARATE HARD DRIVES
ORIGINALLY I USED D AS A CLONE OF C FOR BACKUP
NOW THEY ARE REVERSED
ALL WORKS FINE -

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

I MAY BE THE PROBLEM HERE



*TimDaniels*

 

[Bill]

Timothy,

Once again, thanks for the informative reply.

SATA ch 0 is D
SATA ch 1 is C

I think there is a problem with the drive in ch 1(C). It is a clone of D,
yet will only get to the welcome screen when I try to boot to it. It never
gets to the "Windows is starting........." part. I am pretty sure I booted
the machine last night with this drive not pluged in properly. My problems
started after this - if I recall correctly.

Every thing I try indicates C is working properly, yet it won't boot to it
when I swap the cables on the motherboard.
I have the 3rd hard drive that I can use to replace the second hard drive
(C) to see if there is some physical damage to it. Once I get all the drives
working properly, I'll try the multi boot option with Windows Vista Beta 2
on my 3rd drive - H.

Thank you so much for you time and info, I'll be studying it from now until
dawn <G>

Bill


You don't say which HD and which partition contains
that boot.ini. Remember that one partition on each
HD contains a clone, and they should both contain
the boot files of the original. I suspect that both
partitions contain boot files, and it is the HD boot
order that determines which set of boot files are used.

The *default* HD boot order for SATA HDs is
SATA ch. 0,
SATA ch. 1.

*If* you haven't inadvertently (or advertently) changed
the HD boot order in the BIOS, your HD which you call
"D:" is the at the head of the HD boot order, and it can
be called the "boot drive". Since you have only one
partition on each HD which are also marked "active"),
those partitions can each be called a "boot partition".

Assuming that the boot.ini files of both partition's are
identical, all you have to do to make them *both* dual-boot
menus, is to add another entry with the "rdisk(0)" changed
to "rdisk(1)", the timeout value set to something around 5
to 10, and the default entry's "rdisk()" set to "rdisk(0)".

That will give the meaning "this disk" to the "rdisk(0)"
entry and "the other disk" to the "rdisk(1)" entry, and
"this disk" to the default entry. In this context, "this"
means the HD at the head of the HD boot order, i.e.
the HD on SATA channel 0.

If, for some reason, you want to use the boot files on
the channel 1 SATA HD, just go into the BIOS - usually
by pressing the Delete key on Dell machines when
the machine goes beep or makes a grinding sound
during the initial booting procedure - and navigate to
the section that sets the *HD* boot order (not just the
device boot order). See your owner's manual for
details on the BIOS. That will allow you to control
booting from your 2nd HD in case the 1st HD gets
flakey.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

This is the line under ''operating systems'' in boot.ini

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)Windows =
"Microsoft Windows XP Home edition"/noexecute option/fastdetect


It doesn't seem to have the second rdsk option you mentioned -
so I guess it is not already set up for multi booting.

Bill


The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition?
YES - I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT HAD TO BOOT TO C

Is it having a shortcut with "D:" as the root?
YES - IF IN FACT IT IS A PROBLEM


BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
IT IS A DELL PENTIUM 4 XPS GEN 5


Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)
C AND D ARE TWO SEPARATE HARD DRIVES
ORIGINALLY I USED D AS A CLONE OF C FOR BACKUP
NOW THEY ARE REVERSED
ALL WORKS FINE -

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

I MAY BE THE PROBLEM HERE



*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

OK, so if the BIOS's HD boot order hasn't been
altered, the SATA drive containing the partition
called "D:" is in control of booting. In this case,
the boot.ini file in partition "D:" would refer to that
partition as "rdisk(0)", and it would refer to the
"C:" partition as "rdisk(1)". One problem with
using clones is that they are hard to tell apart in
both the boot menu(s) and when up and running.
For that reason, in the boot.ini entries, I identify
in the text string which HD it's on, which partition
(0, 1, 2, 3, etc) it's in, and which "rdisk()" value it has.
This lets me know right there in the boot menu
all the information I need to know to boot the right
OS. In addition, on the Desktop of each OS, I
put a folder (or folders) whose names tell me the
same information. Then when an OS is up and
running, I can tell at a glance which one it is.
This is especially important with clones because
each OS, when it is running, will call its own partition
"C:" and the other OS's partition something else -
usually "D:". So when you see your "C:" partition,
it really doesn't identify for you which OS is running.

I notice in the boot.ini entry that you posted, i.e.that there is no backslash between "partition(2)"
and "Windows". I had assumed that was a typo.
Since "Windows" is the name of the folder that
the OS is expected to be found, that *might* be
the cause of your current problem.

Keep in the back of your mind that you don't really
*have* to get into the intricacies of the boot.ini
syntax if you don't want to. You can just use the
BIOS's HD boot order to determine which HD gets
control of booting. In effect, each HD will be set
up to do mono-booting, and it won't know that there
are any other OSes in the system (although each
OS's file structure will be visible to the running OS.)

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

Once again, thanks for the informative reply.

SATA ch 0 is D
SATA ch 1 is C

I think there is a problem with the drive in ch 1(C). It is a clone of D,
yet will only get to the welcome screen when I try to boot to it. It never
gets to the "Windows is starting........." part. I am pretty sure I booted
the machine last night with this drive not pluged in properly. My problems
started after this - if I recall correctly.

Every thing I try indicates C is working properly, yet it won't boot to it
when I swap the cables on the motherboard.
I have the 3rd hard drive that I can use to replace the second hard drive
(C) to see if there is some physical damage to it. Once I get all the drives
working properly, I'll try the multi boot option with Windows Vista Beta 2
on my 3rd drive - H.

Thank you so much for you time and info, I'll be studying it from now until
dawn <G>

Bill


:
You don't say which HD and which partition contains
that boot.ini. Remember that one partition on each
HD contains a clone, and they should both contain
the boot files of the original. I suspect that both
partitions contain boot files, and it is the HD boot
order that determines which set of boot files are used.

The *default* HD boot order for SATA HDs is
SATA ch. 0,
SATA ch. 1.

*If* you haven't inadvertently (or advertently) changed
the HD boot order in the BIOS, your HD which you call
"D:" is the at the head of the HD boot order, and it can
be called the "boot drive". Since you have only one
partition on each HD which are also marked "active"),
those partitions can each be called a "boot partition".

Assuming that the boot.ini files of both partition's are
identical, all you have to do to make them *both* dual-boot
menus, is to add another entry with the "rdisk(0)" changed
to "rdisk(1)", the timeout value set to something around 5
to 10, and the default entry's "rdisk()" set to "rdisk(0)".

That will give the meaning "this disk" to the "rdisk(0)"
entry and "the other disk" to the "rdisk(1)" entry, and
"this disk" to the default entry. In this context, "this"
means the HD at the head of the HD boot order, i.e.
the HD on SATA channel 0.

If, for some reason, you want to use the boot files on
the channel 1 SATA HD, just go into the BIOS - usually
by pressing the Delete key on Dell machines when
the machine goes beep or makes a grinding sound
during the initial booting procedure - and navigate to
the section that sets the *HD* boot order (not just the
device boot order). See your owner's manual for
details on the BIOS. That will allow you to control
booting from your 2nd HD in case the 1st HD gets
flakey.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

This is the line under ''operating systems'' in boot.ini

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)Windows =
"Microsoft Windows XP Home edition"/noexecute option/fastdetect


It doesn't seem to have the second rdsk option you mentioned -
so I guess it is not already set up for multi booting.

Bill


:
The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition?
YES - I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT HAD TO BOOT TO C

Is it having a shortcut with "D:" as the root?
YES - IF IN FACT IT IS A PROBLEM


BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
IT IS A DELL PENTIUM 4 XPS GEN 5


Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)
C AND D ARE TWO SEPARATE HARD DRIVES
ORIGINALLY I USED D AS A CLONE OF C FOR BACKUP
NOW THEY ARE REVERSED
ALL WORKS FINE -

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

I MAY BE THE PROBLEM HERE



*TimDaniels*

:
OS = Windows XP Home SP2

I have 2 hds - C and D

In setup:
D = Drive 0 - SATA 0
C = Drive 1 - SATA 1

Control Panel - System - Device Manager shows the same thing

If I right click on a icon on the quick launch bar it shoes D as the
location of the program. All seems to be working fine, but I am not sure
booting to D is OK. I want to add a 3rd HD and put Windows Vista Beta 2
on
it and use VistaBootPro to choose between systems. I thought it might be
a
good idea to get the C/D thing corrected before I add more drives.

I believe the problem started when I booted the machine with the cable
to
C
disconnected, not on purpose. I have tried switching the cables at the
motherboard and can boot to the welcome screen but it doesn't say
"windows
is starting" and goes no further.

Bill

 

[Bill]

Timothy,

Since my last post I cloned SATA 0 to SATA 3 - switched cables on the mother
board and booted fine
When I cloned SATA 0 to SATA 1 and switched cables - no boot past Windows
screen. I think there is something wrong with the HD at SATA 1 - I want to
figure out how to format it and reclone to see if it is a file problem or a
hard drive gone bad.

The boot.ini is actually:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\Windows="Microsoft Windows XP Home
Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

I rechecked it twice - ''optin'' is there - I would have thought it should
be ''option''

Now - I have to get SATA 1 fixed - I haven't found a way to format it yet -
then I shall re-read all your posts, which I have saved to Word docs, and go
from there - first things first.

Again I thank you for your time and knowledge. I am starting to understand
how this whole boot thing works. I used to be a Training Officer for your
local Dept of Correction - if you ever want to know the correct way to apply
handcuffs - I can help you<G>

Off to try to format SATA 1

Thanks again Bill



OK, so if the BIOS's HD boot order hasn't been
altered, the SATA drive containing the partition
called "D:" is in control of booting. In this case,
the boot.ini file in partition "D:" would refer to that
partition as "rdisk(0)", and it would refer to the
"C:" partition as "rdisk(1)". One problem with
using clones is that they are hard to tell apart in
both the boot menu(s) and when up and running.
For that reason, in the boot.ini entries, I identify
in the text string which HD it's on, which partition
(0, 1, 2, 3, etc) it's in, and which "rdisk()" value it has.
This lets me know right there in the boot menu
all the information I need to know to boot the right
OS. In addition, on the Desktop of each OS, I
put a folder (or folders) whose names tell me the
same information. Then when an OS is up and
running, I can tell at a glance which one it is.
This is especially important with clones because
each OS, when it is running, will call its own partition
"C:" and the other OS's partition something else -
usually "D:". So when you see your "C:" partition,
it really doesn't identify for you which OS is running.

I notice in the boot.ini entry that you posted, i.e.that there is no backslash between "partition(2)"
and "Windows". I had assumed that was a typo.
Since "Windows" is the name of the folder that
the OS is expected to be found, that *might* be
the cause of your current problem.

Keep in the back of your mind that you don't really
*have* to get into the intricacies of the boot.ini
syntax if you don't want to. You can just use the
BIOS's HD boot order to determine which HD gets
control of booting. In effect, each HD will be set
up to do mono-booting, and it won't know that there
are any other OSes in the system (although each
OS's file structure will be visible to the running OS.)

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

Once again, thanks for the informative reply.

SATA ch 0 is D
SATA ch 1 is C

I think there is a problem with the drive in ch 1(C). It is a clone of D,
yet will only get to the welcome screen when I try to boot to it. It never
gets to the "Windows is starting........." part. I am pretty sure I booted
the machine last night with this drive not pluged in properly. My problems
started after this - if I recall correctly.

Every thing I try indicates C is working properly, yet it won't boot to it
when I swap the cables on the motherboard.
I have the 3rd hard drive that I can use to replace the second hard drive
(C) to see if there is some physical damage to it. Once I get all the
drives
working properly, I'll try the multi boot option with Windows Vista Beta 2
on my 3rd drive - H.

Thank you so much for you time and info, I'll be studying it from now
until
dawn <G>

Bill


:
You don't say which HD and which partition contains
that boot.ini. Remember that one partition on each
HD contains a clone, and they should both contain
the boot files of the original. I suspect that both
partitions contain boot files, and it is the HD boot
order that determines which set of boot files are used.

The *default* HD boot order for SATA HDs is
SATA ch. 0,
SATA ch. 1.

*If* you haven't inadvertently (or advertently) changed
the HD boot order in the BIOS, your HD which you call
"D:" is the at the head of the HD boot order, and it can
be called the "boot drive". Since you have only one
partition on each HD which are also marked "active"),
those partitions can each be called a "boot partition".

Assuming that the boot.ini files of both partition's are
identical, all you have to do to make them *both* dual-boot
menus, is to add another entry with the "rdisk(0)" changed
to "rdisk(1)", the timeout value set to something around 5
to 10, and the default entry's "rdisk()" set to "rdisk(0)".

That will give the meaning "this disk" to the "rdisk(0)"
entry and "the other disk" to the "rdisk(1)" entry, and
"this disk" to the default entry. In this context, "this"
means the HD at the head of the HD boot order, i.e.
the HD on SATA channel 0.

If, for some reason, you want to use the boot files on
the channel 1 SATA HD, just go into the BIOS - usually
by pressing the Delete key on Dell machines when
the machine goes beep or makes a grinding sound
during the initial booting procedure - and navigate to
the section that sets the *HD* boot order (not just the
device boot order). See your owner's manual for
details on the BIOS. That will allow you to control
booting from your 2nd HD in case the 1st HD gets
flakey.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

This is the line under ''operating systems'' in boot.ini

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)Windows =
"Microsoft Windows XP Home edition"/noexecute option/fastdetect


It doesn't seem to have the second rdsk option you mentioned -
so I guess it is not already set up for multi booting.

Bill


:
The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition?
YES - I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT HAD TO BOOT TO C

Is it having a shortcut with "D:" as the root?
YES - IF IN FACT IT IS A PROBLEM


BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
IT IS A DELL PENTIUM 4 XPS GEN 5


Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)
C AND D ARE TWO SEPARATE HARD DRIVES
ORIGINALLY I USED D AS A CLONE OF C FOR BACKUP
NOW THEY ARE REVERSED
ALL WORKS FINE -

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

I MAY BE THE PROBLEM HERE



*TimDaniels*

:
OS = Windows XP Home SP2

I have 2 hds - C and D

In setup:
D = Drive 0 - SATA 0
C = Drive 1 - SATA 1

Control Panel - System - Device Manager shows the same thing

If I right click on a icon on the quick launch bar it shoes D as the
location of the program. All seems to be working fine, but I am not
sure
booting to D is OK. I want to add a 3rd HD and put Windows Vista Beta 2
on
it and use VistaBootPro to choose between systems. I thought it might
be
a
good idea to get the C/D thing corrected before I add more drives.

I believe the problem started when I booted the machine with the cable
to
C
disconnected, not on purpose. I have tried switching the cables at the
motherboard and can boot to the welcome screen but it doesn't say
"windows
is starting" and goes no further.

Bill

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Since it's possible to have the lone partition on a HD not
marked "active", check to see that the partition on HD 1
is marked "active" (using Disk Management). Without
that flag set, the MBR will not be able to select the
partition to find its boot sector.

One thing that is important with the WinNT/2K/XP OSes is
not to let the newly-made clone see its "parent" OS when
the clone starts up for the 1st time - it gets confused,
sometimes very subtley. Start a new clone up in isolation.
Thereafter, it can be started with its "parent" visible to it,
and no harm will come of it. A really easy-to-use cloning
utility is Casper XP. I tried it as a 30-day free trial download,
and I subsequently bought my copy. You might give it a
try yourself from www.FSSdev.com/products/casperxp/ .
You can clone an entire hard drive or just a single partition.
The latter operation - cloning a single partition to a
destination that may have other pre-existing partitions
and get the MBR and "active" flag right - can't be done by
all the cloning utilities on the market, just some of them.

The \noexecute option is new with WinXP/SP2. It enables
Data Execution Prevention (DEP). It's not *necessary* to
have it in your boot.ini file's entries. Here's Microsoft's
document on the option:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._aff45176-bd02-43cf-9895-c212fa392de2.xml.asp

As for handcuffs - I just use electrical Ty-Raps. I buy them in
neon colors, and the women love 'em!

*TimDaniels*

Since my last post I cloned SATA 0 to SATA 3 - switched cables on the mother
board and booted fine
When I cloned SATA 0 to SATA 1 and switched cables - no boot past Windows
screen. I think there is something wrong with the HD at SATA 1 - I want to
figure out how to format it and reclone to see if it is a file problem or a
hard drive gone bad.

The boot.ini is actually:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\Windows="Microsoft Windows XP Home
Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

I rechecked it twice - ''optin'' is there - I would have thought it should
be ''option''

Now - I have to get SATA 1 fixed - I haven't found a way to format it yet -
then I shall re-read all your posts, which I have saved to Word docs, and go
from there - first things first.

Again I thank you for your time and knowledge. I am starting to understand
how this whole boot thing works. I used to be a Training Officer for your
local Dept of Correction - if you ever want to know the correct way to apply
handcuffs - I can help you<G>

Off to try to format SATA 1

Thanks again Bill



:
OK, so if the BIOS's HD boot order hasn't been
altered, the SATA drive containing the partition
called "D:" is in control of booting. In this case,
the boot.ini file in partition "D:" would refer to that
partition as "rdisk(0)", and it would refer to the
"C:" partition as "rdisk(1)". One problem with
using clones is that they are hard to tell apart in
both the boot menu(s) and when up and running.
For that reason, in the boot.ini entries, I identify
in the text string which HD it's on, which partition
(0, 1, 2, 3, etc) it's in, and which "rdisk()" value it has.
This lets me know right there in the boot menu
all the information I need to know to boot the right
OS. In addition, on the Desktop of each OS, I
put a folder (or folders) whose names tell me the
same information. Then when an OS is up and
running, I can tell at a glance which one it is.
This is especially important with clones because
each OS, when it is running, will call its own partition
"C:" and the other OS's partition something else -
usually "D:". So when you see your "C:" partition,
it really doesn't identify for you which OS is running.

I notice in the boot.ini entry that you posted, i.e.that there is no backslash between "partition(2)"
and "Windows". I had assumed that was a typo.
Since "Windows" is the name of the folder that
the OS is expected to be found, that *might* be
the cause of your current problem.

Keep in the back of your mind that you don't really
*have* to get into the intricacies of the boot.ini
syntax if you don't want to. You can just use the
BIOS's HD boot order to determine which HD gets
control of booting. In effect, each HD will be set
up to do mono-booting, and it won't know that there
are any other OSes in the system (although each
OS's file structure will be visible to the running OS.)

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

Once again, thanks for the informative reply.

SATA ch 0 is D
SATA ch 1 is C

I think there is a problem with the drive in ch 1(C). It is a clone of D,
yet will only get to the welcome screen when I try to boot to it. It never
gets to the "Windows is starting........." part. I am pretty sure I booted
the machine last night with this drive not pluged in properly. My problems
started after this - if I recall correctly.

Every thing I try indicates C is working properly, yet it won't boot to it
when I swap the cables on the motherboard.
I have the 3rd hard drive that I can use to replace the second hard drive
(C) to see if there is some physical damage to it. Once I get all the
drives
working properly, I'll try the multi boot option with Windows Vista Beta 2
on my 3rd drive - H.

Thank you so much for you time and info, I'll be studying it from now
until
dawn <G>

Bill


:
You don't say which HD and which partition contains
that boot.ini. Remember that one partition on each
HD contains a clone, and they should both contain
the boot files of the original. I suspect that both
partitions contain boot files, and it is the HD boot
order that determines which set of boot files are used.

The *default* HD boot order for SATA HDs is
SATA ch. 0,
SATA ch. 1.

*If* you haven't inadvertently (or advertently) changed
the HD boot order in the BIOS, your HD which you call
"D:" is the at the head of the HD boot order, and it can
be called the "boot drive". Since you have only one
partition on each HD which are also marked "active"),
those partitions can each be called a "boot partition".

Assuming that the boot.ini files of both partition's are
identical, all you have to do to make them *both* dual-boot
menus, is to add another entry with the "rdisk(0)" changed
to "rdisk(1)", the timeout value set to something around 5
to 10, and the default entry's "rdisk()" set to "rdisk(0)".

That will give the meaning "this disk" to the "rdisk(0)"
entry and "the other disk" to the "rdisk(1)" entry, and
"this disk" to the default entry. In this context, "this"
means the HD at the head of the HD boot order, i.e.
the HD on SATA channel 0.

If, for some reason, you want to use the boot files on
the channel 1 SATA HD, just go into the BIOS - usually
by pressing the Delete key on Dell machines when
the machine goes beep or makes a grinding sound
during the initial booting procedure - and navigate to
the section that sets the *HD* boot order (not just the
device boot order). See your owner's manual for
details on the BIOS. That will allow you to control
booting from your 2nd HD in case the 1st HD gets
flakey.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

This is the line under ''operating systems'' in boot.ini

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)Windows =
"Microsoft Windows XP Home edition"/noexecute option/fastdetect


It doesn't seem to have the second rdsk option you mentioned -
so I guess it is not already set up for multi booting.

Bill


:
The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

:

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition?
YES - I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT HAD TO BOOT TO C

Is it having a shortcut with "D:" as the root?
YES - IF IN FACT IT IS A PROBLEM


BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
IT IS A DELL PENTIUM 4 XPS GEN 5


Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)
C AND D ARE TWO SEPARATE HARD DRIVES
ORIGINALLY I USED D AS A CLONE OF C FOR BACKUP
NOW THEY ARE REVERSED
ALL WORKS FINE -

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

I MAY BE THE PROBLEM HERE



*TimDaniels*

:
OS = Windows XP Home SP2

I have 2 hds - C and D

In setup:
D = Drive 0 - SATA 0
C = Drive 1 - SATA 1

Control Panel - System - Device Manager shows the
same thing

If I right click on a icon on the quick launch bar it shoes
D as the location of the program. All seems to be
working fine, but I am not sure booting to D is OK. I want
to add a 3rd HD and put Windows Vista Beta 2 on it and
use VistaBootPro to choose between systems. I thought
it might be a good idea to get the C/D thing corrected
before I add more drives.

I believe the problem started when I booted the machine
with the cable to C disconnected, not on purpose. I have
tried switching the cables at the motherboard and can
boot to the welcome screen but it doesn't say "windows
is starting" and goes no further.

Bill

 

[Bill]

Tim,

I have gone back the basics - removed 2 HDs from the system and am using
just original WD Raptor that came with the machine. Have to figure out a way
to format them, re-install them (they are now sitting on my printer) and go
from there. I use Acronis True Image as my cloning program. I got so
involved in cloning and switching cables on the mother board and such that I
created ''a monster''. Time to take a breath and start this journey all
over - one small step at a time. I thank you once again for your computer
knowledge.

Ty-wraps, even the neon ones, cannot compete with the feel of cold chrome
steel - they just can't - no matter how you try to clone them.

Bill





Since it's possible to have the lone partition on a HD not
marked "active", check to see that the partition on HD 1
is marked "active" (using Disk Management). Without
that flag set, the MBR will not be able to select the
partition to find its boot sector.

One thing that is important with the WinNT/2K/XP OSes is
not to let the newly-made clone see its "parent" OS when
the clone starts up for the 1st time - it gets confused,
sometimes very subtley. Start a new clone up in isolation.
Thereafter, it can be started with its "parent" visible to it,
and no harm will come of it. A really easy-to-use cloning
utility is Casper XP. I tried it as a 30-day free trial download,
and I subsequently bought my copy. You might give it a
try yourself from www.FSSdev.com/products/casperxp/ .
You can clone an entire hard drive or just a single partition.
The latter operation - cloning a single partition to a
destination that may have other pre-existing partitions
and get the MBR and "active" flag right - can't be done by
all the cloning utilities on the market, just some of them.

The \noexecute option is new with WinXP/SP2. It enables
Data Execution Prevention (DEP). It's not *necessary* to
have it in your boot.ini file's entries. Here's Microsoft's
document on the option:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._aff45176-bd02-43cf-9895-c212fa392de2.xml.asp

As for handcuffs - I just use electrical Ty-Raps. I buy them in
neon colors, and the women love 'em!

*TimDaniels*

Since my last post I cloned SATA 0 to SATA 3 - switched cables on the
mother
board and booted fine
When I cloned SATA 0 to SATA 1 and switched cables - no boot past Windows
screen. I think there is something wrong with the HD at SATA 1 - I want to
figure out how to format it and reclone to see if it is a file problem or
a
hard drive gone bad.

The boot.ini is actually:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\Windows="Microsoft Windows XP Home
Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

I rechecked it twice - ''optin'' is there - I would have thought it should
be ''option''

Now - I have to get SATA 1 fixed - I haven't found a way to format it
yet -
then I shall re-read all your posts, which I have saved to Word docs, and
go
from there - first things first.

Again I thank you for your time and knowledge. I am starting to understand
how this whole boot thing works. I used to be a Training Officer for your
local Dept of Correction - if you ever want to know the correct way to
apply
handcuffs - I can help you<G>

Off to try to format SATA 1

Thanks again Bill



:
OK, so if the BIOS's HD boot order hasn't been
altered, the SATA drive containing the partition
called "D:" is in control of booting. In this case,
the boot.ini file in partition "D:" would refer to that
partition as "rdisk(0)", and it would refer to the
"C:" partition as "rdisk(1)". One problem with
using clones is that they are hard to tell apart in
both the boot menu(s) and when up and running.
For that reason, in the boot.ini entries, I identify
in the text string which HD it's on, which partition
(0, 1, 2, 3, etc) it's in, and which "rdisk()" value it has.
This lets me know right there in the boot menu
all the information I need to know to boot the right
OS. In addition, on the Desktop of each OS, I
put a folder (or folders) whose names tell me the
same information. Then when an OS is up and
running, I can tell at a glance which one it is.
This is especially important with clones because
each OS, when it is running, will call its own partition
"C:" and the other OS's partition something else -
usually "D:". So when you see your "C:" partition,
it really doesn't identify for you which OS is running.

I notice in the boot.ini entry that you posted, i.e.that there is no backslash between "partition(2)"
and "Windows". I had assumed that was a typo.
Since "Windows" is the name of the folder that
the OS is expected to be found, that *might* be
the cause of your current problem.

Keep in the back of your mind that you don't really
*have* to get into the intricacies of the boot.ini
syntax if you don't want to. You can just use the
BIOS's HD boot order to determine which HD gets
control of booting. In effect, each HD will be set
up to do mono-booting, and it won't know that there
are any other OSes in the system (although each
OS's file structure will be visible to the running OS.)

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

Once again, thanks for the informative reply.

SATA ch 0 is D
SATA ch 1 is C

I think there is a problem with the drive in ch 1(C). It is a clone of D,
yet will only get to the welcome screen when I try to boot to it. It
never
gets to the "Windows is starting........." part. I am pretty sure I
booted
the machine last night with this drive not pluged in properly. My
problems
started after this - if I recall correctly.

Every thing I try indicates C is working properly, yet it won't boot to
it
when I swap the cables on the motherboard.
I have the 3rd hard drive that I can use to replace the second hard drive
(C) to see if there is some physical damage to it. Once I get all the
drives
working properly, I'll try the multi boot option with Windows Vista Beta
2
on my 3rd drive - H.

Thank you so much for you time and info, I'll be studying it from now
until
dawn <G>

Bill


:
You don't say which HD and which partition contains
that boot.ini. Remember that one partition on each
HD contains a clone, and they should both contain
the boot files of the original. I suspect that both
partitions contain boot files, and it is the HD boot
order that determines which set of boot files are used.

The *default* HD boot order for SATA HDs is
SATA ch. 0,
SATA ch. 1.

*If* you haven't inadvertently (or advertently) changed
the HD boot order in the BIOS, your HD which you call
"D:" is the at the head of the HD boot order, and it can
be called the "boot drive". Since you have only one
partition on each HD which are also marked "active"),
those partitions can each be called a "boot partition".

Assuming that the boot.ini files of both partition's are
identical, all you have to do to make them *both* dual-boot
menus, is to add another entry with the "rdisk(0)" changed
to "rdisk(1)", the timeout value set to something around 5
to 10, and the default entry's "rdisk()" set to "rdisk(0)".

That will give the meaning "this disk" to the "rdisk(0)"
entry and "the other disk" to the "rdisk(1)" entry, and
"this disk" to the default entry. In this context, "this"
means the HD at the head of the HD boot order, i.e.
the HD on SATA channel 0.

If, for some reason, you want to use the boot files on
the channel 1 SATA HD, just go into the BIOS - usually
by pressing the Delete key on Dell machines when
the machine goes beep or makes a grinding sound
during the initial booting procedure - and navigate to
the section that sets the *HD* boot order (not just the
device boot order). See your owner's manual for
details on the BIOS. That will allow you to control
booting from your 2nd HD in case the 1st HD gets
flakey.

*TimDaniels*

Timothy,

This is the line under ''operating systems'' in boot.ini

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)Windows =
"Microsoft Windows XP Home edition"/noexecute option/fastdetect


It doesn't seem to have the second rdsk option you mentioned -
so I guess it is not already set up for multi booting.

Bill


:
The phrase "boot to C" doesn't mean anything to me.
The boot files can be on *any* Primary partition on
*any* HD in the system. The OS that ntldr (i.e. the
boot loader) loads can be on *any* partition - even
on a Logical Drive within an Extended partition. This
all means that the "C:" partition doesn't have to be
the location of the boot files, and "C:" doesn't have
to contain the OS that is loaded. As a matter of fact,
the running OS can rename all the partitions while
it is running.

If you created one WinXP by cloning another, and the
original OS called its own partition "C:", the clone OS
will also call its own partition "C:" when it is running.
It usually, in that case, will call the original OS's partition
"D:". And the original OS, when it is running, will call
the clone's partition "D:". This is not a problem unless
the running OS has a shortcut to "D:" which gets
broken if you add another partition and what was
expected to be on "D:" partition is on a partition that
is then called "E:". If all file references stay within
the OS's partition, this does not become a problem.

Since you have a Dell, you probably have a Phoenix
BIOS, and it probably has the ability to re-define the
HD boot order (i.e. re-arrange the list of HDs which
determines which one the BIOS searches first when
it looks for a HD with a valid MBR (Master Boot Record).
When such an MBR is found, the BIOS then passes
control the that MBR, and the MBR's executable logic
then looks in the partition table on the HD for the
Primary partition that has its "active" flag set. The MBR
then passes control to the boot sector in that partition,
and the boot sector passes control to the ntldr in its
partition. So, by controlling the HD boot order, you can
control which MBR the BIOS passes control to, and
that ultimately can control which OS gets booted.
IOW, you don't even need a boot manager to do
multi-booting if the OSes are on separate HDs.

But if you do want to use the standard WinXP boot
manager, all you need to do is to set the "rdisk()"
parameter in the boot.ini entries. Assuming that the
boot.ini file is already set up to do multi-booting,
it now has 2 entries under the line "[operating systems]".
One has "rdisk(0)" in it, the other has "rdisk(1)" in it.
"rdisk(0)" refers to the HD which is currently at the head
of the HD boot order (i.e. at relative position 0). "rdisk(1)"
refers to the 2nd HD in the HD boot order (i.e. relative
position 1). You can put whatever you want between the
double quotes in the line, and it is that character string
which you see in the menu at boot time which will identify
for you which entry in boot.ini you may select. You can also
control the length of time the menu is displayed bysetting
the no. of seconds as the value of "timeout" in the boot.ini
contents.

These boot files may be on what you call the C:
partition or on what you call the D: partition - it doesn't
matter. The ones that get chosen for running are determined
by the the HD boot order and the "active" flag on the HD
that is at the head of the HD boot order. The boot.ini
entry selection then controls where the loader goes looking
for the OS.

:

What is the "problem" to which you refer when you
write "I believe the problem started..."? Is it booting
with the "D:" partition?
YES - I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT HAD TO BOOT TO C

Is it having a shortcut with "D:" as the root?
YES - IF IN FACT IT IS A PROBLEM


BTW, who is the motherboard
manufacturer, or if you know, who wrote the BIOS?
IT IS A DELL PENTIUM 4 XPS GEN 5


Are the installed programs on the 2 OSes
significantly different (i.e. why 2 OSes?)
C AND D ARE TWO SEPARATE HARD DRIVES
ORIGINALLY I USED D AS A CLONE OF C FOR BACKUP
NOW THEY ARE REVERSED
ALL WORKS FINE -

THANKS FOR THE REPLY

I MAY BE THE PROBLEM HERE



*TimDaniels*

:
OS = Windows XP Home SP2

I have 2 hds - C and D

In setup:
D = Drive 0 - SATA 0
C = Drive 1 - SATA 1

Control Panel - System - Device Manager shows the
same thing

If I right click on a icon on the quick launch bar it shoes
D as the location of the program. All seems to be
working fine, but I am not sure booting to D is OK. I want
to add a 3rd HD and put Windows Vista Beta 2 on it and
use VistaBootPro to choose between systems. I thought
it might be a good idea to get the C/D thing corrected
before I add more drives.

I believe the problem started when I booted the machine
with the cable to C disconnected, not on purpose. I have
tried switching the cables at the motherboard and can
boot to the welcome screen but it doesn't say "windows
is starting" and goes no further.

Bill

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I have gone back the basics - .... cannot compete with the feel
of cold chrome steel...

Gotcha! Er.. I mean, I understand.

*TimDaniels*