Board with USB boot capability?

N

N

I am looking for a micro-atx motherboard to use for linux routers that can
boot from a usb flash card.

Which asus boards do this? It would be nice to have a list of model
numbers (if anyone has them).

From what I can see, boards with the new AMI bios seem to have usb
booting. I have tried it on a A7N8X-VM, and it would boot (but it did have
issues as I explain below). However I want to go with an intel celeron on
these. Also I need to be able to use nic drivers that come with the stock
kernel (for maintainability, and since the kernel I use does not support
modules), so the nforce chipset is out anyway.

I have done this on an intel board, which I do not mind all that much.
However I am having an issue with reliability. Basically I had some
issues with the usb not detecting on reboot sometimes, so I modified a
script to reboot when it finished booting, so it would keep rebooting
automatically and I could check on it every now and then. After about
20-30 reboots, the intel board would either not detect the usb flash or I
would end up getting some other usb error from the kernel. I tried this
with the A7N8X-VM, and got the same results. I have tried 3 different
brands of usb card readers and 3 different flash cards (different brands
too), all have the same problem. To troubleshoot further I tried using a
ide flash reader on the intel board, and it still had the reboot problem.
It seems that a p4b533 is not having the problem when using the IDE reader.

After hours and hours of messing around with this, it seems that the
only thing that the failing systems have in common (and that is different
from systems that work), is the AMI bios. I am not completely certain if
this is the problem, but it is all I can come up with.

That is why I would like to find a non-AMI (pref award) bios driven board
that will do usb booting. I could then get one and do my tests on it.
The problem is that I don't know which boards would fit this profile.

Help, anyone?
 
P

Paul

N said:
I am looking for a micro-atx motherboard to use for linux routers that can
boot from a usb flash card.

Which asus boards do this? It would be nice to have a list of model
numbers (if anyone has them).

From what I can see, boards with the new AMI bios seem to have usb
booting. I have tried it on a A7N8X-VM, and it would boot (but it did have
issues as I explain below). However I want to go with an intel celeron on
these. Also I need to be able to use nic drivers that come with the stock
kernel (for maintainability, and since the kernel I use does not support
modules), so the nforce chipset is out anyway.

I have done this on an intel board, which I do not mind all that much.
However I am having an issue with reliability. Basically I had some
issues with the usb not detecting on reboot sometimes, so I modified a
script to reboot when it finished booting, so it would keep rebooting
automatically and I could check on it every now and then. After about
20-30 reboots, the intel board would either not detect the usb flash or I
would end up getting some other usb error from the kernel. I tried this
with the A7N8X-VM, and got the same results. I have tried 3 different
brands of usb card readers and 3 different flash cards (different brands
too), all have the same problem. To troubleshoot further I tried using a
ide flash reader on the intel board, and it still had the reboot problem.
It seems that a p4b533 is not having the problem when using the IDE reader.

After hours and hours of messing around with this, it seems that the
only thing that the failing systems have in common (and that is different
from systems that work), is the AMI bios. I am not completely certain if
this is the problem, but it is all I can come up with.

That is why I would like to find a non-AMI (pref award) bios driven board
that will do usb booting. I could then get one and do my tests on it.
The problem is that I don't know which boards would fit this profile.

Help, anyone?
Click to expand...

Hardware to the rescue!

Here is a picture of a flash drive which is IDE based.
http://www.smartmodular.com/binary/photo/3.5IDE_lrg.jpg
http://www.smartmodular.com/news/article.cfm?newsID=131

http://www.smartmodulartech.com/binary/files/IDEFlashDrives.pdf

A 640MB drive is $214.73 here. A picture of the form factor
would have been nice. SM9FLAM2AE640M1

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=3325999

There are other manufacturers - try "ide flash drive" in
your favorite search engine. And be careful of the interface,
as there are 40 pin 0.1" centers connectors on some, and
44 pin (similar to laptop drives?) on others.

HTH,
Paul
 
N

N

Actually I am trying to get away from using the ide flash readers. The
main reasons being that I have a reliable in-town distributor for usb
flash readers (we are having to order the ide flash readers online, and
sometimes it takes quite a while), and I want to be able to do a software
raid 1 without adding a promise card (without the flash on one channel, I
can put 1 hard disk on each). Also it would be nice to have the hot-swap
features of usb.
 
P

Paul

N said:
Actually I am trying to get away from using the ide flash readers. The
main reasons being that I have a reliable in-town distributor for usb
flash readers (we are having to order the ide flash readers online, and
sometimes it takes quite a while), and I want to be able to do a software
raid 1 without adding a promise card (without the flash on one channel, I
can put 1 hard disk on each). Also it would be nice to have the hot-swap
features of usb.
Click to expand...

There is a slightly interesting thread here:
http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.cfm?catid=43&threadid=39177

I was under the impression that for the most part, USB keychain devices
weren't bootable, based on so many people asking how to do it :)

Paul
 
D

Derek Hawkins

why not buy an award bios for your current test board/s

Trust me, that's a dumb suggestion.

Creeping Stone said:
=|[ N's ]|= said:
I am looking for a micro-atx motherboard to use for linux routers that can
boot from a usb flash card....
Click to expand...

I was just thinking, if you want to test the bios idea,
why not buy an award bios for your current test board/s
-they're modular and seem to get thrown together~

http://www.esupport.com/biosupgrades/index.cfm
Click to expand...
 
D

Derek Hawkins

Here's a cow instead of a glass of milk (hope you aren't lactose
intolerant);

Search Google on ["core bios" chipset].

Creeping Stone said:
=|[ Derek Hawkins's ]|= said:
why not buy an award bios for your current test board/s
Click to expand...

Trust me, that's a dumb suggestion.
Click to expand...
It was just a thought, Id like to know why its dumb though ?
Click to expand...
 
K

Keith S.

Check out CF-IDE adapters like: http://siliconkit.com/cart/
or: http://www.cwlinux.com/eng/products/products_ide2cf.php

Or build your own:

The following is a pin definition & connection table for CF/PCMCIA cards in
"True-IDE" mode. "xx" means that this signal has no equivalent connection in
this standard.

The following pins are straight through connections:
PCMCIA..CF......IDE...Signal Name
30------21------17....D0
31------22------15....D1
32------23------13....D2
2-------2-------11....D3
3-------3-------9.....D4
4-------4-------7.....D5
5-------5-------5.....D6
6-------6-------3.....D7
64------47------4.....D8
65------48------6.....D9
66------49------8.....D10
37------27------10....D11
38------28------12....D12
39------29------14....D13
40------30------16....D14
41------31------18....D15
29------20------35....A0
28------19------33....A1
27------18------36....A2
16------37------31....INTRQ
33------24------32....-IOCS16
44------34------25....-IORD
45------35------23....-IOWR
58------41------1.....-RESET
59------42------27....IORDY
62------45------39....DASP
63------46------34....-PDIAG
7-------7-------37....-CE1 select 0x1Fx
42------32------38....-CE2 select 0x3Fx

The following pins should be connected to power, ground or not at all:
PCMCIA..CF......IDE...Signal Name..connect to
26------17------xx....A3...........=GND
25------16------xx....A4...........=GND
24------15------xx....A5...........=GND
23------14------xx....A6...........=GND
22------12------xx....A7...........=GND
12------11------xx....A8...........=GND
11------10------xx....A9...........=GND
8-------8-------xx....A10..........=GND
1-------1-------xx....Power GND....=GND
34------xx------xx....Power GND....=GND
35------xx------xx....Power GND....=GND
68------50------xx....Power GND....=GND
17------13------xx....Power VCC....=VCC
51------38------xx....Power VCC....=VCC
9-------9-------xx....-OE..........=GND->selects "True-IDE"
15------36------xx....-WE..........=VCC
61------44------xx....-REG.........=VCC
56------39------xx....-CSEL........=GND->master/=n.c.->slave
36------26------xx....-CD1.........=not connected
67------25------xx....-CD2.........=not connected
43------33------xx....-VS1.........=not connected
57------40------xx....-VS2.........=not connected
60------43------xx....-INPACK......=not connected
xx------xx------2.....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------19....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------22....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------24....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------26....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------30....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------40....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------20....KEY..........=missing pin in IDE connector
xx------xx------21....DMAREQ.......=not connected
xx------xx------28....SPSYNC.......=not connected
xx------xx------29....DMACK........=not connected

All other pins of PCMCIA are not connected. Connect all pins of IDE and
CF/PCMCIA connector marked GND to the GND pin of the power supply connector.
Connect all pins of the CF/PCMCIA connector marked VCC to the +5V pin of the
power supply connector. PCMCIA/CF cards DO NOT SUPPORT DMA; they can only be
used in pio mode.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Important Note
THIS ADAPTER CAN ONLY BE USED WITH PCMCIA/CF CARDS WITH +5V VCC POWER SUPPLY.
APPLYING +5V TO CARDS DESIGNED TO OPERATE ONLY FROM +3.3V MAY PERMANENTLY
DAMAGE THEM. USING 3.3V CARDS AT THEIR RATED VOLTAGE ON A NORMAL IDE-BUS *MAY*
WORK, BUT NOT NESCESSARILY, AS THE IDE INTERFACE IS DESIGNED AROUND +5V LOGIC
CIRCUITS. USING 3.3V CARDS AT THEIR RATED VOLTAGE ON A "3.3V COMPATIBLE"
IDE-BUS SHOULD WORK, BUT HAS NOT BEEN TESTED. FOR INFORMATION ON POWER SUPPLY
REQUIREMENTS OF CF CARDS CONTACT THEIR MANUFACTURER.
note: many of the higher capacity (16 MB+) are 3.3V ONLY devices.
The circuit described above has been tested with 8 MB Hitachi flash cards.
 
K

Keith S.

Check out CF-IDE adapters like: http://siliconkit.com/cart/
or: http://www.cwlinux.com/eng/products/products_ide2cf.php

Or build your own:

The following is a pin definition & connection table for CF/PCMCIA cards in
"True-IDE" mode. "xx" means that this signal has no equivalent connection in
this standard.

The following pins are straight through connections:
PCMCIA..CF......IDE...Signal Name
30------21------17....D0
31------22------15....D1
32------23------13....D2
2-------2-------11....D3
3-------3-------9.....D4
4-------4-------7.....D5
5-------5-------5.....D6
6-------6-------3.....D7
64------47------4.....D8
65------48------6.....D9
66------49------8.....D10
37------27------10....D11
38------28------12....D12
39------29------14....D13
40------30------16....D14
41------31------18....D15
29------20------35....A0
28------19------33....A1
27------18------36....A2
16------37------31....INTRQ
33------24------32....-IOCS16
44------34------25....-IORD
45------35------23....-IOWR
58------41------1.....-RESET
59------42------27....IORDY
62------45------39....DASP
63------46------34....-PDIAG
7-------7-------37....-CE1 select 0x1Fx
42------32------38....-CE2 select 0x3Fx

The following pins should be connected to power, ground or not at all:
PCMCIA..CF......IDE...Signal Name..connect to
26------17------xx....A3...........=GND
25------16------xx....A4...........=GND
24------15------xx....A5...........=GND
23------14------xx....A6...........=GND
22------12------xx....A7...........=GND
12------11------xx....A8...........=GND
11------10------xx....A9...........=GND
8-------8-------xx....A10..........=GND
1-------1-------xx....Power GND....=GND
34------xx------xx....Power GND....=GND
35------xx------xx....Power GND....=GND
68------50------xx....Power GND....=GND
17------13------xx....Power VCC....=VCC
51------38------xx....Power VCC....=VCC
9-------9-------xx....-OE..........=GND->selects "True-IDE"
15------36------xx....-WE..........=VCC
61------44------xx....-REG.........=VCC
56------39------xx....-CSEL........=GND->master/=n.c.->slave
36------26------xx....-CD1.........=not connected
67------25------xx....-CD2.........=not connected
43------33------xx....-VS1.........=not connected
57------40------xx....-VS2.........=not connected
60------43------xx....-INPACK......=not connected
xx------xx------2.....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------19....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------22....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------24....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------26....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------30....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------40....GND..........=GND
xx------xx------20....KEY..........=missing pin in IDE connector
xx------xx------21....DMAREQ.......=not connected
xx------xx------28....SPSYNC.......=not connected
xx------xx------29....DMACK........=not connected

All other pins of PCMCIA are not connected. Connect all pins of IDE and
CF/PCMCIA connector marked GND to the GND pin of the power supply connector.
Connect all pins of the CF/PCMCIA connector marked VCC to the +5V pin of the
power supply connector. PCMCIA/CF cards DO NOT SUPPORT DMA; they can only be
used in pio mode.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Important Note
THIS ADAPTER CAN ONLY BE USED WITH PCMCIA/CF CARDS WITH +5V VCC POWER SUPPLY.
APPLYING +5V TO CARDS DESIGNED TO OPERATE ONLY FROM +3.3V MAY PERMANENTLY
DAMAGE THEM. USING 3.3V CARDS AT THEIR RATED VOLTAGE ON A NORMAL IDE-BUS *MAY*
WORK, BUT NOT NESCESSARILY, AS THE IDE INTERFACE IS DESIGNED AROUND +5V LOGIC
CIRCUITS. USING 3.3V CARDS AT THEIR RATED VOLTAGE ON A "3.3V COMPATIBLE"
IDE-BUS SHOULD WORK, BUT HAS NOT BEEN TESTED. FOR INFORMATION ON POWER SUPPLY
REQUIREMENTS OF CF CARDS CONTACT THEIR MANUFACTURER.
note: many of the higher capacity (16 MB+) are 3.3V ONLY devices.
The circuit described above has been tested with 8 MB Hitachi flash cards.
 
C

Creeping Stone

=|[ Derek Hawkins's ]|= said:
Here's a cow instead of a glass of milk (hope you aren't lactose
intolerant);

Search Google on ["core bios" chipset].
Click to expand...
I dont understand your take - not sure how easy or much an alternative bios
costs to aquire, but in the past with an older board, i found it simple
enough to test ami bios against award version as both were freely available
for it.

The OP wants to try award, does he really need a new board?
How does that relate to the cow and glass diagram? (praps conversely)
And what use would following your "core bios" query do me ?

-I havent time to crack riddles for hurried detractions, gimme a little
more substance to respond to and itll merit some thought.
Even better, just explain your comment as well you can ;]
 

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