Big temp rise with new cpu - need advice please

[Randy_O]

I've just built my sister a new P4P800 SE with a new 3E GHz Pent 4 CPU. I
use the packaged Intel fan and heat exchanger with the gummy heat exchange
compound. I tested the comp. tonight to see if I could get the Bios, and
the temperature of the CPU was 78.5 degrees Centigrade or 178 degrees Far.
My own Computer's CPU is a 2.8 E GHZ Pent 4 on a P4P800 DLX ; I built it
long time ago, and I took off the Intel heat exchange paste by accident. I
had to apply some stuff out of a tube that I bought at radio shack. My CPU
heats to the mild temp of 31 degrees C or 100 degrees F. degrees. Is my
sisters CPU going to burn up; it sure seems hot compared to mine? If I
decide to take her fan and heat exchange off, what is the best way to clean
up the mess before I apply some other heat exchange paste (I've still got
the old stuff from radio shack)? What is the maximum heat the Pentium 4
chip supposed to take? Thank goodness I got the Bios on her comp tonight.

Sincerely -- Randy


PS------ Don't buy one of those Super Mid Tower Antec Cases of the Solution
Series unless you want complete frustration with the top area for 5.25
devices. There are no screw holes for backup. There are two drive rails
for each device which you screw in to the device ( e.g.. CD ROM ); then, you
slide the device in the bay until it snaps into place ------ good LUCK!!!!!
I've always bought Antec cases. Theses are great
cases except for the Whole Damn area where the 5.25 bays are (knuckle
busters). The specific case I bought for my sister was SLK3700AMB. Maybe
they should try the cases out before they sell them. I've got very
expensive full tower cases from Antec that I bought from them years
ago-------no problem ---- maybe they had quality assurance then. These
cases had everything going for them --- too good to be true -- it was -- !

 

[Mercury]

Go to the arctcsilver web site and check through the instructions there.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/

Could you have mounted the heatsink backwards? It happens.
Could the heat gunk be un even?
Is the heatsink clipped on correctly?
How is the temp with the side off the case?
What is the ambient temp?

Do not use both heat gunk and a heat pad at the same time.
Did you remove the protective film from the stock heatsinks head pad?

78c is hot. Don't run the system like that until the issue is sorted. It is
not too hot to be of concern, just HOT.

The recommendation for P4 Prescott cpu'sis not to use the supplied heat pad
on the heatsink, but to use a quality heat gunk EG AS *and* to have a vent
in the side of the case that feeds (ducts) fresh cool air straight to the
CPU cooler fan.

 

[Alex Devlin]

I've just built my sister a new P4P800 SE with a new 3E GHz Pent 4
CPU. I use the packaged Intel fan and heat exchanger with the gummy
heat exchange compound. I tested the comp. tonight to see if I could
get the Bios, and the temperature of the CPU was 78.5 degrees
Centigrade or 178 degrees Far. My own Computer's CPU is a 2.8 E GHZ
Pent 4 on a P4P800 DLX ; I built it long time ago, and I took off the
Intel heat exchange paste by accident. I had to apply some stuff out
of a tube that I bought at radio shack. My CPU heats to the mild temp
of 31 degrees C or 100 degrees F. degrees. Is my sisters CPU going
to burn up; it sure seems hot compared to mine? If I decide to take
her fan and heat exchange off, what is the best way to clean up the
mess before I apply some other heat exchange paste (I've still got the
old stuff from radio shack)? What is the maximum heat the Pentium 4
chip supposed to take? Thank goodness I got the Bios on her comp
tonight.

Sincerely -- Randy

I have the same board and mine shows hotter than it is.

When I first got it I installed my P4 Prescott 2.8 with the stock fan and
heatsink. My idle temps were in the 50s and it shot to 73+ under load.
Occasionally I would get a reading of 90C with nothing running but windows
and it's services. I installed a Thermalright XP-120 with a 120mm fan and
now it shows low 40s idle to low 60s load. I tried a different board in the
same case and with everything else the same and the temps were 30s idle and
low 50s load. I could get a better case and cool this down some more.

The Prescott I have has a thermal limit of 67C. After this it starts to
throttle back and will eventually shut down to save itself. When I had the
old intel fan and sink with the temp showing in the 70s it didn't slow down
or shut down.

Maybe there's a bad batch of P4P800SEs out there that read higher than they
should. Mine certainly does.

You can download a program called Throttlewatch
(http://www.panopsys.com/throttlewatch.php) that will monitor your cpu and
let you know if it's throttling back due to heat.

Do as the other poster recommended and read the instructions at the arctic
silver web site and apply new paste. Make sure it's as thin as possible to
maximize the heat transfer. The best technique I read about and tried is to
use a plastic bag to apply the paste. Take a sandwich zip bag and turn it
inside out so you're using a side that hasn't been touched. Place a small
(about half a grain of rice size) amount of paste in the middle of the cpu
and then spread it with your finger in the bag. It will pull the paste away
from the cpu until you have a coating on the bag and then it will spread
it. Be careful as you will get to a point where you'll start to pull it off
the cpu again.

Have fun and post your findings.

 

[Randy_O]

Thanks guys for the advice. I really think the P4P800 SE is reading wrong
(I hope). I took the board out and cleaned up the cpu and heat exchanger;
then, I put on the same heat exchange paste I used on my own P4P800 dlx
board (that was a nice board) where I have a cpu temp of 38 degrees C.
After I put the MB back in the case and ran things awhile the temp was
cooler by only 8.5 degrees C. I went from 78.5 to 70 degrees C. I have
two 120 mm fans in the case with a light load. I'm using the same Intel Fan
and heat exchange which comes with all commercial retail Prescott 3.0E GHz
CPUs. What do you all think?

Sincerely -- Randy O.
==================================================

 

[-]

really think the P4P800 SE is reading wrong ... I'm using the same Intel
I guess a lot depends on your case, fans and how many obstructions there are
in the way of the airflow (cables, cards, etc). FWIW, I run the same board
and processor and at 55 to 58 degrees under heavy processing. I checked my
filter on the front of my Antec case this last week and it was quite furry.
Temps had crept up 61 degrees. Temps dropped 5 degrees after cleaning the
filters and blowing the heat sink fins free of fur

Doug

 

[Alex Devlin]

I guess a lot depends on your case, fans and how many obstructions
there are in the way of the airflow (cables, cards, etc). FWIW, I run
the same board and processor and at 55 to 58 degrees under heavy
processing. I checked my filter on the front of my Antec case this
last week and it was quite furry. Temps had crept up 61 degrees.
Temps dropped 5 degrees after cleaning the filters and blowing the
heat sink fins free of fur

Doug

You don't get rid of the fur dude!! That's where the little Intel* devs
live and work. If you kill them we'll never get a cool 4Ghz+ cpu from
them.

*If you have an AMD please disregard and kill the b*stards.

 

[Alex Devlin]

Thanks guys for the advice. I really think the P4P800 SE is reading
wrong (I hope). I took the board out and cleaned up the cpu and heat
exchanger; then, I put on the same heat exchange paste I used on my
own P4P800 dlx board (that was a nice board) where I have a cpu temp
of 38 degrees C. After I put the MB back in the case and ran things
awhile the temp was cooler by only 8.5 degrees C. I went from 78.5
to 70 degrees C. I have two 120 mm fans in the case with a light
load. I'm using the same Intel Fan and heat exchange which comes with
all commercial retail Prescott 3.0E GHz CPUs. What do you all think?

Sincerely -- Randy O.

Have you tried the 'Throttlewatch' program? That would let you know if
it's throttling back in any way due to heat. Also if you have access to
another cpu (Northwood would read lower temps due to the power usage) you
can swap them and read the difference. Or another board to swap and get a
reading off?

A better sink and fan will reduce the temps. The stock one really sucks
and I can't believe that Intel still supply it with a Prescott. The heat
problems of this cpu alone should warrant a better sink and fan.

What I've learned with my cpu and board is the temp sensor is reading
high. Everything should say that the cpu will throttle back at the temps
it reached. Trying a different board just confirmed my suspicions.

 

[Randy_O]

Thank you Alex -------

I tried ThrottleWatch on my sisters P4P800 SE with PaintShop Pro, and the
3.O E GHz CPU is certainly overheating and throttling. It jumped up to 70
from a low of 11 in the throttle range several times I tested. At idle it
did not throttle. I tried ThrottleWatch on my own computer which has a 2.8
GHz E Prescott on a P4P800 DLX MB; I messed around with PhotoShop and never
saw any throttling with my CPU. I will have to get a new fan heat exchange
on my sister's setup. This will be a problem because I don't know where to
start -- to get the right one to fit. Her damn computer has just about
blown my mind. I've built 3 other systems, but this one has been one
problem after another. Any ideas of a good fan heat exchange that is
available easily ( that for sure will fit ) --- something that Newegg or
MWAVE might handle? Those are two places I do order online. How about
CompUSA? I don't want the thing too huge because of the configuration of
her case. If her DVD-CD writer reader dies, and I need to put another in I
would have to take the MB out to put another in; I have to remove the PS to
put the DVD in, and the PS must move out and over the CPU temporarily.
Thanks again Alex!!!!! Sure is fun ---huh ;o)))

Sincerely --- Randy O in WI
=========================================================================

 

[Alex Devlin]

Thank you Alex -------

I tried ThrottleWatch on my sisters P4P800 SE with PaintShop Pro, and
the 3.O E GHz CPU is certainly overheating and throttling. It jumped
up to 70 from a low of 11 in the throttle range several times I
tested. At idle it did not throttle. I tried ThrottleWatch on my own
computer which has a 2.8 GHz E Prescott on a P4P800 DLX MB; I messed
around with PhotoShop and never saw any throttling with my CPU. I
will have to get a new fan heat exchange on my sister's setup. This
will be a problem because I don't know where to start -- to get the
right one to fit. Her damn computer has just about blown my mind.
I've built 3 other systems, but this one has been one problem after
another. Any ideas of a good fan heat exchange that is available
easily ( that for sure will fit ) --- something that Newegg or MWAVE
might handle? Those are two places I do order online. How about
CompUSA? I don't want the thing too huge because of the configuration
of her case. If her DVD-CD writer reader dies, and I need to put
another in I would have to take the MB out to put another in; I have
to remove the PS to put the DVD in, and the PS must move out and over
the CPU temporarily. Thanks again Alex!!!!! Sure is fun ---huh
;o)))

Sincerely --- Randy O in WI

I would recommend that you spend a few extra bucks and get a larger case
first. You will probably need a decent size heatsink to cool this cpu
down. Size can be tall or wide depending on what your preference is. I
think that the case your describing will cost you more in the long run as
you try to work around it to get it cool.

I use a Thermalright XP-120 (http://tinyurl.com/3s8kw). It can only fit
on the P4P800SE in one direction, with the pipes facing the memory slots.
It rests against my power supply so I should get a bigger case at some
point to give it more room. Some people recommend the Zalman
(http://tinyurl.com/6n9vw). I was tempted to go for that but I read
reviews that recommended the XP-120 above the zalman and needed the
maximum cooling.

Get a case with an air duct and lots of fans. Newegg has lots to choose
from. If you got the original case from them and it's un modified then I
would email them and explain the situation and they 'MAY' allow you to
exchange it.

 

[Michael W. Ryder]

I would recommend that you spend a few extra bucks and get a larger case
first. You will probably need a decent size heatsink to cool this cpu
down. Size can be tall or wide depending on what your preference is. I
think that the case your describing will cost you more in the long run as
you try to work around it to get it cool.

I agree with the need for a new case. If the old one is as cramped as
it seems to be it can make a big difference in CPU temperature. My
latest update had similar problems to the OP's until I replaced the
case. The CPU was directly under the PS and the temperature was in the
60s at idle. With a new case and a couple of inches of clearance my
temperatures dropped into the low 40's at idle (with a 3.4 Prescott).'
I didn't need to replace the heatsink fan to get this kind of a drop,
just improve the heat flow.

 

[Randy_O]

What specific 120 mm fan did you use on the Thermalright XP-120 (does it
matter), and how did you attach the fan to the heat sink? Did you use
contact cement? I see I need a 3 pin female attachment. I see the heat
exchange comes with two wire attachment dodads --- will these work on MB
post holes meant for the Intel heatsink fan setup or is there lots of
dinking around. Once the wires are attached to hold the heat exchange, how
does a fan get attached? How did you do it Alex? I have room I believe.

My case is ---- I mentioned it in one post is the """"Don't buy one of
those Super Mid Tower Antec Cases of the Solution Series unless you want
complete frustration with the top area for 5.25 devices. There are no screw
holes for backup. There are two drive rails for each device which you screw
in to the device ( e.g.. CD ROM ); then, you slide the device in the bay
until it snaps into place ------ good LUCK!!!!! I've always bought Antec
cases. Theses are great
cases except for the Whole Damn area where the 5.25 bays are (knuckle
busters). The specific case I bought for my sister was SLK3700AMB. Maybe
they should try the cases out before they sell them. I've got very
expensive full tower cases from Antec that I bought from them years
ago-------no problem ---- maybe they had great quality assurance then. "
Go to Antec and U can see the schematic of the case; it looks really great.

The CPU is sort of close to the PS; so, Michael Ryder is correct in his
ideas about cooling I believe.
Thanks Alex and Michael and anyone else. Alex I will try to keep you posted
on my improvements -- I hope.

Sincerely----Randy O
===================================================================

 

[Alex Devlin]

What specific 120 mm fan did you use on the Thermalright XP-120 (does
it matter), and how did you attach the fan to the heat sink? Did you
use contact cement? I see I need a 3 pin female attachment. I see
the heat exchange comes with two wire attachment dodads --- will these
work on MB post holes meant for the Intel heatsink fan setup or is
there lots of dinking around. Once the wires are attached to hold the
heat exchange, how does a fan get attached? How did you do it Alex?
I have room I believe.

I used this fan on mine http://tinyurl.com/33q6d
I had to modify it though as the corners had plastic in them. You'll see
why soon.

The wire dodads you mentioned are what attaches the fan to the heatsink.
The heatsink has clips built into the underneath of it and it clips into
the standard P4 heatsink clips on your motherboard. You can install it
while the board is in the case but the clips are very strong and you need
to push them down to clip onto the plastic bracket on the motherboard.
They are like strong spring clips so you need to be able to get to them
to make sure they're clipped in well. I have my fan plugged into a 4pin
plug in the pc case. The same type that you connect to drives. So my fan
runs full speed all the time. Forget the 3pin motherboard connector and
ignore the BIOS error when you boot the first time telling you the cpu
fan isn't working. It can only read it through the 3pin which you may not
be using if you do the same as me.

Go to www.thermalright.com and click on "Installation/XP-120(P4)" on the
menu on the left. You can see the clips underneath the heatsink and the
wire dodads that hold the fan. These are weak and flimsy but do hold the
fan securely so don't panic when you see them. This is also why I had to
modify my fan. The wires clip onto the fan so the sides and corners need
to be open so the wire can get into it. If you get a solid fan there is
no where for the clips to go to hold it.

If you want to go ahead with this heatsink in that case then good luck to
you! But I would recommend a better case. You're going to be spending $70
on the heatsink and whatever on the fan, so why not a new case too?

 

[mthien]

I agree with the need for a new case. If the old one is as cramped as
it seems to be it can make a big difference in CPU temperature. My
latest update had similar problems to the OP's until I replaced the
case. The CPU was directly under the PS and the temperature was in the
60s at idle. With a new case and a couple of inches of clearance my
temperatures dropped into the low 40's at idle (with a 3.4 Prescott).'
I didn't need to replace the heatsink fan to get this kind of a drop,
just improve the heat flow.

I recently installed a P3.2E CPU into a P4C800 deluxe board and also
noticed that the temperature jumped to 70 degrees. I also found that
the system would simply switch off at this point. I attribute this to
the board not supporting the Prescott processor fully. Please be sure
to upgrade the bios to the most recent version.

 

[Randy_O]

Well Alex , I ordered what you suggested, and I even purchased Artic Silver
heatsink paste. If you take the "eatcrow and the spam" out of my email you
can email me. I sure wish you could make a quick drawing /sketch and scan
it showing your modification of the fan. You could send me a jpg or two
(make them less than 300 --more like 75 pixels per inch). I was wondering
about your fan; you might want to change it because it is doing a steady
job. The fan ordered is a sleeve bearing fan (you had the link for); After
delivery, I may go out and buy a similar ball bearing fan at CompUSA because
ball bearing fans are better. I also installed a 120 mm ball bearing fan in
the front of the case which I might need to use; it had a 3 wire plug, but I
could get an adapter. I sure would like to see what I need to do next when
this stuff comes instead of guessing at how to adapt the fan. I sure would
appreciate it because I've got a major write up I must do pertaining to
Vietnam; it is very important for me getting my proper benefits. This
building a computer for my younger sister turned into a nightmare scenario.
That case I bought for my sister cost $84 ($108 with S&H); there is no way I
can blow that kind of money. I can't return it because it has been scarred
and scratched inside with all the stuff I did. Usually Antec cases are
great. I've got a deluxe case they don't make any more, but mine would have
been nicer if they would have thought of 120 mm fans in those days ( I've
got lots of 80 mm fans --- its a noisy computer, but really cool).

My Best Regards --- Randy O in WI
=====================================================================

 

[Alex Devlin]

Well Alex , I ordered what you suggested, and I even purchased Artic
Silver heatsink paste. If you take the "eatcrow and the spam" out of
my email you can email me. I sure wish you could make a quick
drawing /sketch and scan it showing your modification of the fan. You
could send me a jpg or two (make them less than 300 --more like 75
pixels per inch).

Pictures emailed.

 

[Alex Devlin]

Pictures emailed.

Argh, sent it before I had finished!

Emailed: - 3 pictures showing the XP-120 and the fan mods.

Ignore the dust please

Hope these help.

I removed the plastic from the corners using a saw blade. You could use a
dremel or even a chisel/screwdriver and hammer if you're carefull.

Be sure to set the fan to blow down onto the XP-120.

Getting the clips on the XP-120 to clip into the bracket on the
motherboard is difficult. It may be easier to remove the motherboard and
seat the heatsink.

Put a THIN coating of AS5 on the cpu. Clean it well first. Both the cpu
and XP-120 base.

 

[Randy_O]

Thanks Alex. Note the ball bearing model of the same size and manufactured
fan you linked to.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-150-052&depa=0
The ball bearing model has more air flow vs. the sleeve model; the ball
bearing model dBA is about 5 higher for noise. I ordered 4 tonight for
future building. Your a good guy ---helping out a desperate frustrated guy
doing a good deed for sister who needs a decent comp.

Sincerely ---A WI friend -----------------Randy O
=====================================================================

 

[Randy_O]

Excellent photographs showing just what I wanted to see!!! Great notes on
the photos. You did a h-ll of a job ---Alex----well done! Thanks again
-----Randy
=====================================================================

Thanks Alex. Note the ball bearing model of the same size and
manufactured fan you linked to.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-150-052&depa=0
The ball bearing model has more air flow vs. the sleeve model; the ball
bearing model dBA is about 5 higher for noise. I ordered 4 tonight for
future building. Your a good guy ---helping out a desperate frustrated
guy doing a good deed for sister who needs a decent comp.

Sincerely ---A WI friend -----------------Randy O
=====================================================================

 

[Alex Devlin]

Excellent photographs showing just what I wanted to see!!! Great notes
on the photos. You did a h-ll of a job ---Alex----well done! Thanks
again -----Randy

Anytime Randy. That's what this group is for.
Thanks for the link to the better fan. I'll put it in my wishlist until the
wife loosens the purse strings a little

 

[Randy_O]

I attached the XP-120; also, I attached a 3 pin extension on the cpu fan
plug. I was impatient; my order for the ball bearing replacement fans for
the sleeve bearing fan had not come yet. I took the ball bearing 3pin 120
mm Evercool fan which I had attached to the front of the case (not as good
CFM as those ordered) and put that on the heat sink. I didn't need to
modify the plastic holes; the spring metal clips from the heat sink snapped
over the fan screw holes easily. I twisted a couple plastic coated wires at
two of the screw holes to make the metal spring clip really tight on the
fan. I attached the cpu fan plug, Screwing the one screw in the upper left
side of the MB into the standoff was very difficult, and it came out sort of
crooked. I used the sleeve fan for the front of the case.

The Temp. decreased from initially 78.5 degrees C with Intel gunk and
heaksink/fan to 70 degrees C with radio shack heatsink paste and Intel
heatsink/fan -----to 36.5 degrees C (nearly 10 degrees F) with the
thermalright XP-120 heat exchanger with a 120 mm fan (could have put a
faster fan with better CFM on). No throttling detected! I hope you get to
read this Alex. Thankssssssssssss!!!!!!!

My sister comp has only one hard drive ( a 200 GB WD) primary ATA. I'm
wondering what kind of serial hard drive setup did you do? I've never setup
any up. I've spent enough on my sisters computer for now. She owes enough
( every month she'll pay some). I also bought her software to get her off
on the right start. I thought Corel WordPerfect Office 12 was a good value
for her; it would go along with her new PaintShop Pro 9. Then, I picked her
up PC-cillin Internet Security by Trend Micro. I added some good freeware I
had. I have a DVD-CD write/reader drive as her secondary master. She will
need an extra hard drive in the future. I'll keep my eyes open for good
rebates. I think she really only needs one more really large hard drive
that is serial ------- what speed can the P4P800 SE take as far as SATA hard
drives? How do you set up just one on this MB?

Best Regards to a very helpful guy ---------------------Randy O in WI
==================================================================