Best to-Frame DVD Editor?

[Stuart]

I have been using Chopper XP to select DVD segments because it is quick and
easy, but now I would like to edit more accurately. Chopper XP only gets
within a second or two of the start and end of the crop. Is there a
to-the-frame freeware (or shareware) DVD editor? Ideally, the program should
re-encode so that TV and wide video formats could be merged as well as
allowing for stereo, 5 track and 6 track audio sources. (The final audio
output would likely be stereo and video would likely be 4x3.) Maybe it
doesn't exist. TMPGEnc Author can't do it. I haven't been able to Google it
or find it on videohelp.com
Stuart//

 

[Mark Burns]

VideoRedo ($50 - 30 day trial)

www.videoredo.com

Womble Mpeg Wizard or MPEG-VCR

($99 / $50 - 30 day trial)

www.womble.com

All are frame accurate editors.

I own mpeg-vcr and VideoRedo. I use VideoRedo 80% of the time but find
both are indispensible.

Cheers...

Mark

 

[Mike Andrade]

VideoRedo ($50 - 30 day trial)

www.videoredo.com

Womble Mpeg Wizard or MPEG-VCR

($99 / $50 - 30 day trial)

www.womble.com

All are frame accurate editors.

I own mpeg-vcr and VideoRedo. I use VideoRedo 80% of the time but
find both are indispensible.

Good for you. Pity you're too blooming stupid to decipher the term
"freeware" in the group name.

 

[Rob]

Good for you. Pity you're too blooming stupid to decipher the term
"freeware" in the group name.

Pity you're too blooming stupid to realize it wasn't only posted to a
freeware group. Duh.

 

[Mike Andrade]

Pity you're too blooming stupid to realize it wasn't only posted
to a freeware group. Duh.

And that matters...how? Not at all...of course, you're too brain-
numbed to understand that, clearly.

 

[Ken Maltby]

And that matters...how? Not at all...of course, you're too brain-
numbed to understand that, clearly.

You are simply an annoyance. You are not in a position
to object to Mark's very accurate post, as you are not the
OP. You offer no other solution to the OP's question, free
or not. All you seem to be doing is whining when someone else
can provide an answer while you can't.

Grow up;
Ken

 

[Mike Andrade]

You are simply an annoyance. You are not in a position
to object to Mark's very accurate post, as you are not the
OP. You offer no other solution to the OP's question, free
or not. All you seem to be doing is whining when someone else
can provide an answer while you can't.

I may be an annoyance. But I'm not an /ignorant/ annoyance, as you
prove yourself to be.

 

[rich]

I have been using Chopper XP to select DVD segments because it is quick
and
easy, but now I would like to edit more accurately. Chopper XP only gets
within a second or two of the start and end of the crop. Is there a
to-the-frame freeware (or shareware) DVD editor? Ideally, the program
should
re-encode so that TV and wide video formats could be merged as well as
allowing for stereo, 5 track and 6 track audio sources. (The final audio
output would likely be stereo and video would likely be 4x3.) Maybe it
doesn't exist. TMPGEnc Author can't do it. I haven't been able to Google
it
or find it on videohelp.com
Stuart//

I am sure someone in the DVD ng will give a better answer but a mpg2 video
consists of 3 types of frames I, P and B where only the I frame is
equivalent to a full 'frame'
P's and B's only record changes to the I frame, so frame to frame editing is
not very practical. Having said that I frames usually occur every 15th
frame so you should get to about half a second of where you want.
As far as freeware is concerned you could use VirtualdubMod -
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?s=8#8 - to convert to a .avi file - (real one
not a divx avi) this would allow editing to the frame. Do your editing then
convert back to mpg. Downside lots of rendering = loss of quality.

Mixing widescreen 16:9 and 4:3 is going to be a problem since both are the
same size 720x576 (for PAL). 16:9 just has a bit set telling the player that
it is widescreen. A 16:9 format would have to be squashed vertically and
bands encoded top and bottom into the output. I don't know for sure but
DVD2SVCD ?should? be able to do this. I was looking for something similar
recently but gave up due to lack of time.

Your audio requirements could done separately. All you need to end up with
is an audio track complying to DVD standard - 48 mhz layer 2 mpg. TooLame
from here - http://users.tpg.com.au/adslblvi/ - will convert a .wav file.
Use one of the free de/multiplexors from videohelp tools to split/recombine
video/audio.

 

[Lew Myschkin]

Mike Andrade wrote:
<Unaccaptably unpolite stuff>

* plonk *

 

[Margrave of Brandenburg]

Mike Andrade wrote:
<Unaccaptably unpolite stuff>

* plonk *

I'll second that.

 

[Mark Burns]

I believe that he also said shareware...

Both have 30-day trials.

There are no free ones of this calibre that I am aware of.

Cheers mate...

 

[John Fitzsimons]

On 23 Dec 2005 17:34:31 -0800, "Mark Burns" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Hi Mark,

VideoRedo ($50 - 30 day trial)

Womble Mpeg Wizard or MPEG-VCR

($99 / $50 - 30 day trial)

All are frame accurate editors.

I own mpeg-vcr and VideoRedo. I use VideoRedo 80% of the time but find
both are indispensible.

Why would you need both ?

Cheers...

Also, how would either/both compare to the freeware program at ;

http://www.avcutty.de/english/index.htm ?


Regards, John.

 

[Mark Burns]

John:

I use VideoRedo to clean up analog to mpeg-2 captures from my hardware
encoder. It ensures that Audio/Video is in-sync. It is also the best
commercial remover from OTA recordings to my DVD-R set-top recorder.

Mpeg-Vcr will change audio samplings, aspect ratios, bitrates, etc...
Very versatile.

Mpeg Video Wizard will fo Mpeg-Vcr plus add transitions, titles, etc...

The freeware program that you mention is for AVI files. These are
generally, but not necessarily, DV format from a camera. Actually, AVI
is a Microsoft defined video wrapper that may contain file formats of
any type for which there is a codec in your computer to use against.

It is more than likely not frame-acurate on mpeg encoded AVI files.
Most editors aren't. I-frames generally occur at least every 1/2
second in an mpeg-2 file, therefore there is some choppiness to editing
with this tool.

Cheers...

Mark

 

[Margrave of Brandenburg]

Also, how would either/both compare to the freeware program at ;
http://www.avcutty.de/english/index.htm ?

From the avcutty.de web site ...
What is AVCutty not able to do?
.... But for good results, each frame in the AVI file has to be a keyframe.
Some codecs (e.g. DivX) have per default one keyframe for each N frames. In
this case you should change the settings of the encoder. Furthermore your
AVI files should use the PCM audio format.

This is a problem for most AVI video sources.

 

[John Fitzsimons]

From the avcutty.de web site ...
What is AVCutty not able to do?

... But for good results, each frame in the AVI file has to be a keyframe.
Some codecs (e.g. DivX) have per default one keyframe for each N frames. In
this case you should change the settings of the encoder.

Okay, so what is an example of an encoder that can do that ? Where/how
is it changed ? What does one change the settings to ?

Furthermore your AVI files should use the PCM audio format.

Okay, what's PCM stand for ? Can one convert AVI files so that the
audio is changed to PCM ?

This is a problem for most AVI video sources.

Okay. Thank you for your help Margrave.

If one "changes the encoder settings" and has PCM audio format then
the freeware AVCutty might compare to VideoRedo ?

I don't know the format the Panasonic DMR-E100H recorder saves in but
if anyone here knows then is there a program that would take that data
and make each frame a keyframe and the audio PCM ?

Regards, John.

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[John Fitzsimons]

On 24 Dec 2005 16:28:32 -0800, "Mark Burns" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Hi Mark,

I am a DVD recording "newbie" so a few more queries....

I use VideoRedo to clean up analog to mpeg-2 captures from my hardware
encoder.

Which is ? In any case doesn't your DVD-R set-top recorder receive the
analogue signal and do the encoding ? Why have an additional encoder ?

It ensures that Audio/Video is in-sync. It is also the best
commercial remover from OTA recordings to my DVD-R set-top recorder.

Okay, I am confused about the flow of things here. Is OTA = on the air
? Is your incoming data from a T.V. transmission ? A camera ? Or
something else ?

In any case I would have thought that the recorder would record the
signal first and then you would use VideoRedo. Not the other way
around.

Mpeg-Vcr will change audio samplings, aspect ratios, bitrates, etc...
Very versatile.

So if one was recording T.V. analogue input then one may not need to
change anything ? So not need Mpeg-Vcr ?

Mpeg Video Wizard will fo Mpeg-Vcr plus add transitions, titles, etc...

The freeware program that you mention is for AVI files. These are
generally, but not necessarily, DV format from a camera. Actually, AVI
is a Microsoft defined video wrapper that may contain file formats of
any type for which there is a codec in your computer to use against.

Well, I have no idea why anything would need "wrapping" but can one
"unwrap" the video then ? If so what is a program that could do that ?
Is there such a thing as a program that will change all avi files to
mpeg2 ?

It is more than likely not frame-acurate on mpeg encoded AVI files.
Most editors aren't. I-frames generally occur at least every 1/2
second in an mpeg-2 file, therefore there is some choppiness to editing
with this tool.

Okay, that makes things a little clearer. Thank you for your answer.
It is much appreciated.

Regards, John.

--
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[Mark Burns]

John:

I use the set-top encoder for analog conversions that are one hour or
less and over-the-air recording (OTA). Very good for quick camera
encoding also.

My Pinnacle USB hardware encoder is generally used for my VHS tapes.
It gives me more control over the encoding process. I got started
doing this to convert some precious VHS tapes.

AVI is a *wrapper* could also say *container*. In reality there is no
AVI format, simply a way of identifying installed codecs (software) on
the PC to the program interfaces. Mpeg is also a container, with a
single m2v video and mpa (or ac3) audio elemental stream. The DVD VOB
files are also containers, with a single m2v video, one or more audio
streams (ac3/mpa/pcm), and subpicture streams, chapter and camera angle
info. A video as we know it generally as a video and audio elemental
stream muxed into a wrapper/container.

There are programs, such as TmpgEnc Plus, that will convert AVI to mpeg
format. Software conversions are notoriously slow though, but can
yield better results. Many of us in this group use hardware encoders
to save time and see few discernable differences in many/most cases.

I use VideoRedo first to clean up analog captures and make sure that
the audio and video frames are in-sync. Nothing else is available that
I have tried or heard of that does this. It is also the most versitile
editor for removing commercials, unwanted footage, joining footage
frame accurately. It is my single most used and favorite tool. Great
support. Just go to their web site and read their forums. Talk to the
developers. Best $50 that I have spent.

Mpeg-vcr is very good for different videos that have been captured
differently and making them compatible by transcoding their audio or
video. For example, I may wish to convert ac3 audio to mpa audio, or
mpa 224 audo to mpa 192 audio for making a single mpeg stream from two.
It also changes aspect ratios, bitrates, etc... Very versitile tool.
I have owned this one longer that VRO. But yes, I use it much less
often but only for tight places. For your particular set-top example,
no you probably won't need it. That will come when you want to combine
your STR video with video from another source.

There simply is no best mpeg (or AVI for that matter) NLE (non-linear
editor).

I also use Pinnacle Version 8 for mpeg editing as well. Mostly for
titles, transitions, converting jpeg images to mpeg etc... It came
with my PC capture device. This is where I started. I now use VRO to
frame accurate cut my video for input to P8. I quickly started looking
for solutions to problems not covered by Pinnacle. I never author with
the software (toooooo slow) or burn with it (no control) instead using
either TmpgEnc DVD Author (95%) / Dvd Lab (5%) to author and
DvdShrink/DvdDecrypter to burn.

I am still shopping for a new effects editor. My current favorite next
try will probably be the Serif Movie Plus 4.

These are all very good tools, imho.

No two of us who regularly post to this group do things the same way.
We all learn new things every day, often from each other. I have been
contributing/learning to/from this group for about 16 months,
lurking/learning here for 6 months prior to that. I only add this
because you continue to call yourself a newbie. I feel that way every
day. What am I going to learn new from Ken, Alpha, Smarty, and many,
many others today?

Cheers...

Mark

 

[John Fitzsimons]

On 25 Dec 2005 18:41:50 -0800, "Mark Burns" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Hi Mark,

No two of us who regularly post to this group do things the same way.
We all learn new things every day, often from each other.

< snip >

Agreed, but your detailed answers are certainly a big help. Thank you
for taking the time to write them.

Regards, John.

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[tooly]

On 23 Dec 2005 17:34:31 -0800, "Mark Burns" <[email protected]>
wrote:

Hi Mark,




Why would you need both ?

Hey John. I'm just learning this stuff...but I just purchased VideoReDo. I
can edit a 2 hour television movie
in about 10-15 minutes. I was trying out Womble's software and it took me a
lot longer [lots]...and I think Womble's might be standard fare in editing
timeline programs etc. VideoReDo, you mark the cuts and tell the program to
create the edit...and that's it. In Wombles, and I imagine others like it,
I was having to cut and save, renaming the cuts, then piecemealing them back
together afterwards...several additional "tedious" steps that VideoReDo did
not require.

So, I'd answer your question up front, to save time...if editing out
commercials or doing simple 'cut' edits is something you plan to be doing a
lot. Programs like Wombles [which did not work out for me I'm afraid],
would be for more extensive creative projects. (I admit I may have not
learned Womble's completely, but even so, it was not intuitive how to do the
editing differently as described; VideoReDo is intuitive, easy, and fast).
But...it IS $50 bucks too. $50 would have reroofed my old shed out back
that is leaking badly.

 

[John Howells]

So, I'd answer your question up front, to save time...if editing out
commercials or doing simple 'cut' edits is something you plan to be doing a
lot. Programs like Wombles [which did not work out for me I'm afraid],
would be for more extensive creative projects. (I admit I may have not
learned Womble's completely, but even so, it was not intuitive how to do the
editing differently as described; VideoReDo is intuitive, easy, and fast).
But...it IS $50 bucks too. $50 would have reroofed my old shed out back
that is leaking badly.

Also, how would either/both compare to the freeware program at ;

http://www.avcutty.de/english/index.htm ?


Regards, John.