Best "Power By ATI" vendors

[Jim]

I'm trying to pick out a new video card and would appreciate any input on
which vendors have quality "Powered by ATI" cards. I tried one from ST
labs and it had very poor image quality compaired to a Factory ATI card that
I have. I would rate image quality above cutting edge speed.

The Saphire and Powercolor cards seem popular. How is there image quality ?
Or should I stick with a "Built by ATI" card ?


Thanks for any help.

Jim

 

[Ben Pope]

I'm trying to pick out a new video card and would appreciate any input on
which vendors have quality "Powered by ATI" cards. I tried one from ST
labs and it had very poor image quality compaired to a Factory ATI card
that I have. I would rate image quality above cutting edge speed.

The Saphire and Powercolor cards seem popular. How is there image
quality ? Or should I stick with a "Built by ATI" card ?

Sapphire is supposed to be good. I can't fault my Crucial. I haven't heard
many complaints about Powercolor

Ben

 

[Skid]

Sapphire is supposed to be good. I can't fault my Crucial. I haven't heard
many complaints about Powercolor

Sapphire builds cards for ATI and quality is very good. I've owned several
and never been disappointed. Based on reviews and the opinions of owners,
I'd rank the others this way:

PowerColor formerly cut corners with substandard ram that wouldn't overclock
well, but they have made considerable improvements lately and offer some
best-in-class models. Crucial is always good. Hercules and Gigabyte have
flashy coolers and OC utilities, but the prices are usually higher and the
performance is no better than the others.

 

[Ben Pope]

Sapphire builds cards for ATI and quality is very good.

Has anybody actually seen verification of this? It was on a site once and
what was written could have been taken to mean that, but it wasn't
definitive.

I'd like to see a statement from Ati or Sapphire, or some other
distuingishing feature that is identical on both cards.

It's kind of academic anyway, both ATI and Sapphire cards are good.

Ben

 

[Skid]

Has anybody actually seen verification of this? It was on a site once and
what was written could have been taken to mean that, but it wasn't
definitive.

I'd like to see a statement from Ati or Sapphire, or some other
distuingishing feature that is identical on both cards.

It's kind of academic anyway, both ATI and Sapphire cards are good.

I once wasted an hour trying to track it down. Sapphire is in the top tier
of ATI "partners" and it is reported as fact on several websites that ATI
contracts with Sapphire to build at least some of its cards.

Here's a sample from www.digit-life.com, not the last sentence:
----------------------
As you know, Sapphire Technologies is actually the main partner of ATI in
the video card sphere. This company produces the broadest line on the ATI's
processors. The company is based in Hong Kong but is a daughter enterprise
of PC Partner which is the greatest Chinese components manufacturer and an
old partner of ATI (today all video cards "Built by ATI" are produced at the
PC Partner's plants).
----------------

But you're correct that neither Sapphire nor ATI will directly confirm it.
They prefer to dance around the specifics, as in this quote from
www.sapphiretech.com:

---------------------
Ever since ATI announced its manufacturing & distribution relationships with
ODMs and AiBs in June of 2001, SAPPHIRE has always been the key ATI Graphics
Boards Supplier worldwide. SAPPHIRE designs, manufactures and distributes
the most complete range of ATI video boards--from mainstream level Xpert98
to the state-of-the-art technology-enriched Radeon 9700Pro boards.
All SAPPHIRE ATI video boards are manufactured under 100% ATI production
criteria including QC and outgoing system. Our monthly video board
production capacity can reach a lofty 1.8 million. Our factory has always
been the major manufacturer on ATI boards for most of the top ten tier 1
OEMs worldwide.

 

[JAD]

probably a contractual agreement that no 'ONE' company out of the 'partners' will be singled out as a preference

 

[Ben Pope]

I once wasted an hour trying to track it down. Sapphire is in the top tier
of ATI "partners" and it is reported as fact on several websites that ATI
contracts with Sapphire to build at least some of its cards.

<snip!>

Convincing enough for me, thanks.

Ben

 

[Jim]

Thank you all for the info.

I put the Saphire 9800 on my list. NewEgg has them for 243.00 A bit more
than I was going to spend on an ATI9600 pro but it should be future proof
for a while.

 

[Mario Digerati]

I put the Saphire 9800 on my list. NewEgg has them for 243.00 A bit more
than I was going to spend on an ATI9600 pro but it should be future proof
for a while.

I suggest you follow the three links at the end to the discussion groups
about this product.

The following is posted at resellerratings.com
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller_info.pl?seller_id=2121

Comment (Very Dissatisfied)
Posted by
10/26/03 10:18 PM
My Bad Experience With Newegg
------------------------------
I bought an ATI Sapphire 9800 Non Pro OEM from Newegg on
October 22nd, 2003, and instead i received a Sapphire 9800 OEM.
No difference you think? Well, there is, actually. So i was pretty
disappointed but figured i could get a Full refund considering the
circumstances, even though the item was "NON-REFUNDABLE", i
figured they would make an exception seeing as they sent me a
different item, though they only offered an exchange for the same
exact, or a higher priced item, which mean i would have to pay to
ship it back, and pay a 15% restocking fee. I don't understand why i
would want to exchange the wrong item for the same exact one?
And everything that was priced higher wasn't a good deal for me.
So it's a shame to have such a bad experience with what is usually
a great company. $243 is a lot for me...a lot of working hours there.
So my first experience with Newegg was full of hassle, and in the
end, much disappointment. Even if i could get a full refund, it wouldn't
have been worth it. I will not shop at Newegg again.

For more information, please check these threads:
http://www.amdforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=266138&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212168

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=1167445&STARTPAGE=2

 

[Skid]

I suggest you follow the three links at the end to the discussion groups
about this product.

The following is posted at resellerratings.com
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller_info.pl?seller_id=2121

Comment (Very Dissatisfied)
Posted by
10/26/03 10:18 PM
My Bad Experience With Newegg
------------------------------
I bought an ATI Sapphire 9800 Non Pro OEM from Newegg on
October 22nd, 2003, and instead i received a Sapphire 9800 OEM.
No difference you think? Well, there is, actually. So i was pretty
disappointed but figured i could get a Full refund considering the
circumstances, even though the item was "NON-REFUNDABLE", i
figured they would make an exception seeing as they sent me a
different item, though they only offered an exchange for the same
exact, or a higher priced item, which mean i would have to pay to
ship it back, and pay a 15% restocking fee. I don't understand why i
would want to exchange the wrong item for the same exact one?
And everything that was priced higher wasn't a good deal for me.
So it's a shame to have such a bad experience with what is usually
a great company. $243 is a lot for me...a lot of working hours there.
So my first experience with Newegg was full of hassle, and in the
end, much disappointment. Even if i could get a full refund, it wouldn't
have been worth it. I will not shop at Newegg again.

For more information, please check these threads:
http://www.amdforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=266138&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212168

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=1167445&STARTPAGE=2

I had seen all those threads before, and they are good for a chuckle.

Some people were pissed because the photo at NewEgg showed a red card and
they got a black one. Some people were pissed because they thought they were
getting an "ATI" card and they got a Sapphire. Some people were pissed
because they got 300 points less in 3DMark 2003 than they THOUGHT they would
have gotten with a different card.

Meanwhile a fair number of people were delighted to get a card that runs
almost as fast as ATI's top-of-the-line model for a lot less money. And many
of them were able to get respectable overclocks as well, to Pro speeds or
better.

As for your complaints against NewEgg, I don't think you have any cause to
gripe. They tell you up front the manufacturer may make substitutions and
photos may be inaccurate. They warn you that this card is not refundable and
there is a restocking fee.

You got a card with exactly the specs listed, in fact it appears to be
simply an underclocked version of the OEM Sapphire 9800 Pro. The vast
majority of the owner reviews of the card you bought at NewEgg are raves.

If you don't want it, sell it on eBay or ask NewEgg about a trade-up to
another card. They've done that for several people without restocking fees.

 

[Mario Digerati]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=1167445&STARTPAGE=2

I had seen all those threads before, and they are good for a chuckle.

Some people were pissed because the photo at NewEgg showed a red card and
they got a black one. Some people were pissed because they thought they were
getting an "ATI" card and they got a Sapphire. Some people were pissed
because they got 300 points less in 3DMark 2003 than they THOUGHT they would
have gotten with a different card.

Meanwhile a fair number of people were delighted to get a card that runs
almost as fast as ATI's top-of-the-line model for a lot less money. And many
of them were able to get respectable overclocks as well, to Pro speeds or
better.

As for your complaints against NewEgg,

You assumed in error, I didn't write the review.
My complaints with NewEgg.com aren't worth writing about.



I don't think you have any cause to

gripe. They tell you up front the manufacturer may make substitutions and
photos may be inaccurate. They warn you that this card is not refundable and
there is a restocking fee.

You got a card with exactly the specs listed, in fact it appears to be
simply an underclocked version of the OEM Sapphire 9800 Pro. The vast
majority of the owner reviews of the card you bought at NewEgg are raves.

If you don't want it, sell it on eBay or ask NewEgg about a trade-up to
another card. They've done that for several people without restocking fees.

I posted the links for someone that might like to know the card may
not be exactly what they might think. If you would rather laugh about it,
well, whatever.

Anyone buying the card assuming it to be the card of yesterday will be
disappointed. Regardless of how it benchmarks, regardless of who is
happy with it, the one underlying fact remains -- it's not the same card
they used to sell.

But, I guess you missed that part, what with all the laughter and raves

 

[Skid]

You assumed in error, I didn't write the review.
My complaints with NewEgg.com aren't worth writing about.
I posted the links for someone that might like to know the card may
not be exactly what they might think. If you would rather laugh about it,
well, whatever.

Anyone buying the card assuming it to be the card of yesterday will be
disappointed. Regardless of how it benchmarks, regardless of who is
happy with it, the one underlying fact remains -- it's not the same card
they used to sell.

But, I guess you missed that part, what with all the laughter and raves

NewEgg was selling exactly the card they advertised, featuring exactly the
specs they promised, under exactly the terms listed on their website. It
must not have been too bad a deal, as they're now completely sold out and
the owner reviews were overwhelmingly positive.

I know you were just trying to be helpful by advising caution and doing some
homework when purchasing this or any other OEM card. On the other hand, the
only people in those threads who were unhappy were the ones who didn't
follow that advice.

I'm glad to know you weren't the joker who filed that long whine about
NewEgg's refusal to refund his money (despite their written warning,)
because it wasn't the same color as the one in the picture (despite their
written warning,) even though it was exactly the card he ordered and a
bargain at the price.

He was a fool.

 

[Mario Digerati]

NewEgg was selling exactly the card they advertised, featuring exactly the
specs they promised, under exactly the terms listed on their website. It
must not have been too bad a deal, as they're now completely sold out and
the owner reviews were overwhelmingly positive.

It's a moot point now, NewEgg no longer has the Sapphire ATI 9800np.

I know you were just trying to be helpful by advising caution and doing some
homework when purchasing this or any other OEM card. On the other hand, the
only people in those threads who were unhappy were the ones who didn't
follow that advice.

I'm glad to know you weren't the joker who filed that long whine about
NewEgg's refusal to refund his money (despite their written warning,)
because it wasn't the same color as the one in the picture (despite their
written warning,) even though it was exactly the card he ordered and a
bargain at the price.

He was a fool.

Well, I think we've all made our share of less than perfect buying
decisions. Blaming the seller through communal loquacious diatribe
that debunks the writer's claim falls short of the desired objective.

 

[Skid]

It's a moot point now, NewEgg no longer has the Sapphire ATI 9800np.

True. Because so many people thought it was a good deal they sold them all.

Well, I think we've all made our share of less than perfect buying
decisions. Blaming the seller through communal loquacious diatribe
that debunks the writer's claim falls short of the desired objective.

Talk about loquacious ;>)

You cut-and-pasted a third-hand complaint that might lead a casual reader to
avoid a good deal on a good card. I took the time to compose a post refuting
some conclusions in it I thought were illogical.

I still think the guy who wrote it is a fool. He did make a good buying
decision, but then he wanted the vendor to change the rules and refund his
non-refundable transaction because he was disappointed to receive a black
card with exactly the specs of the red card he thought was was getting.

Your post of his complaint eithout any context muddied the waters rather
than clarified them.

Anybody who bought an OEM Sapphire 9880 non-pro while they were available
for $243 got a very good deal. Anyone who passed it up because of a silly
diatribe about NewEgg switching colors missed a bargain, IMHO.

At this point there is nobody following this thread but the two of us, and
now I'm moving on.

 

[Mario Digerati]

True. Because so many people thought it was a good deal they sold them all.

This is speculation, there isn't enough information available to
know what happened.

The Genuine "Made By ATI" Radeon 9800 Pro, BestBuy is selling
through Friday for $300 after rebates, is the best deal. It comes
with a coupon for HL2 too. The top shelf was loaded Monday
morning and only six remain after work yesterday. Had I known you
were so fascinated with dynamic inventory I would have questioned
the salesperson for numbers.

Talk about loquacious ;>)

You cut-and-pasted a third-hand complaint that might lead a casual reader to
avoid a good deal on a good card. I took the time to compose a post refuting
some conclusions in it I thought were illogical.

So what if it causes someone to avoid a purchase, it is their
decision to make, not yours, and when that decision is based
on all available information it becomes a more informed
decision. When it is based on suppression of information by
someone with an ulterior motive, it becomes a bias decision
for that someone's personal agenda.

I didn't see your response as helpful, I saw it as a menace. You
completely failed to notice the placebo, and you still refuse to
acknowledge it. Instead, you only see what you want to see.
Information is the path to knowledge. Deliberately withholding
information leads to ignorance.

I still think the guy who wrote it is a fool. He did make a good buying
decision, but then he wanted the vendor to change the rules and refund his
non-refundable transaction because he was disappointed to receive a black
card with exactly the specs of the red card he thought was was getting.

NewEgg.com has over 5000 reviews on resellerratings.com,
they are the #14 highest rated company, with a 9.80 rating, 9.71
lifetime. NewEgg accounts for over 5% of all reviews, his review
accounts for less than 0.0002% of NewEgg's reviews, and less
than 0.000011% of all reviews. Mathematically, his review is
insignificant, almost pointless and you have removed the
purchase decision factor. All that remains is a difference in
opinion that you have with him, and for that you have repeatedly
become emblematic of a child and resorted to name calling, all
because you don't like what he said.

All things considered, the only possible fool I see is anyone that
blindly takes advise from you. Your modus operandi is the
suppression of free and open inquiry in favor of an apparent
overzealous ego.

Your post of his complaint eithout any context muddied the waters rather
than clarified them.

It's already proven it certainly confused you.

At this point there is nobody following this thread but the two of us, and
now I'm moving on.

All this, because you're showing off for someone

 

[Skid]

<Pedantic diatribe snipped.>

You've contributed a lot of verbiage to this thread, including some amusing
malapropisms and pretzel logic.

I'll forgive the first because I suspect English is not your native tongue
and you are trying to impress us with the vocabulary you've picked up at the
uni-berlin.

I was trying to help you untangle the latter, but I see you have taken it
personally and launched an ad-hominen attack. I had intended to stop after
the last post, but you went to so much trouble for so little effect in your
reply I thought you deserved one more tweak.

The basic problem all along was that you know absolutely nothing about the
video card in question, its specifications and performance, or the details
of the threads you linked.

The opinion of the NewEgg customer you quoted was based on a
misunderstanding of the facts. In the interest of free exchange of
information -- which is what you claim to want here -- I attempted to
correct those misconceptions.

If in the process I pricked the ego of a pompous know-it-all, I apologize.

 

[Mario Digerati]

You've contributed a lot of verbiage to this thread, including some amusing
malapropisms and pretzel logic.

What word are you talking about?
Don't confused your failure to comprehend with my misuse

I was trying to help you untangle the latter, but I see you have taken it
personally and launched an ad-hominen attack. I had intended to stop after
the last post, but you went to so much trouble for so little effect in your
reply I thought you deserved one more tweak.

There is no such word as ad- hominen in my dictionary.
Perhaps you mean hominine, but nothing about my response
resembles any such thing -- do point it out if you think different.

This newsgroup does not exist for rebuttal of NewEgg reviews.

What did I take personally?

If you were so concerned about refuting the review, untangling
what you thought I wrote, then you would have done so at
resellerratings.com where it would have done the most good
and made the most sense.

Yes, you threaten to leave, but you're still here.

The basic problem all along was that you know absolutely nothing about the
video card in question, its specifications and performance, or the details
of the threads you linked.

I know enough about it to know it's not the same card as
reviewed at NewEgg. How it performs is not my concern. The
reviewer wanted the original card and if someone else wanted
the same they were not going to get it. You seem to ignore this
fact at every juncture.

The links provide confirmation of this fact, shall I reference those
since you continue to gainsay in favor of personal agenda.

The opinion of the NewEgg customer you quoted was based on a
misunderstanding of the facts. In the interest of free exchange of
information -- which is what you claim to want here -- I attempted to
correct those misconceptions.

What misunderstanding of facts? He understood as fact, the
card he purchased was NOT the card he wanted. Performance
is not the point. Again, you are suggesting what someone else
wants is secondary to what you think.

What misconceptions are you talking about? The guy made
clear it is not the card he wanted. How he went about making
that point was unwarranted, never-the-less, the fact remains.

 

[Skid]

Mario, Mario. You're quite entertaining. See below:

Warning to other newsgroup denizens, we are WAY off-topic now.)

You've contributed a lot of verbiage to this thread, including some amusing
malapropisms and pretzel logic.

What word are you talking about?
Don't confused your failure to comprehend with my misuse

How can anyone who uses a phrase like "communal loquacious diatribe" to
describe a newsgroup post expect to be taken seriously?

You used "placebo" in a reference to a change of color on a video card PCB.
Pretentious, and tortured.

You said I had become "emblematic of a child." You wrote "advise" when you
mean "advice."

You said, "Your modus operandi is the
suppression of free and open inquiry in favor of an apparent
overzealous ego."

Apparently you were looking in the mirror when you wrote that. You have been
avoiding any rational discussion of the merits or demerits of the card in
question to disguise your lack of knowledge on the subject.

You're trying to impress us with your vocabulary to cover your lack of
logic. It's not working. Simple language is best when you actually have a
point to make.

There is no such word as ad- hominen in my dictionary.
Perhaps you mean hominine, but nothing about my response
resembles any such thing -- do point it out if you think different.

Ad hominem: Latin. Literally "To the man." Appealing to one's prejudices
rather than to reason, as by attacking one's opponent rather than debating
the issue.

(You obviously need a better dictionary.)

This newsgroup does not exist for rebuttal of NewEgg reviews.

What did I take personally?

If you were so concerned about refuting the review, untangling
what you thought I wrote, then you would have done so at
resellerratings.com where it would have done the most good
and made the most sense.

Except that you copied that biased post HERE. Are you so thick you can't
comprehend why, when you post unfairly critical comments in
alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati that someone might want to reply to them in
the same newsgroup?

Yes, you threaten to leave, but you're still here.

You make me laugh. It's cheap entertainment.

I know enough about it to know it's not the same card as
reviewed at NewEgg. How it performs is not my concern. The
reviewer wanted the original card and if someone else wanted
the same they were not going to get it. You seem to ignore this
fact at every juncture.

On what information do you base that? The ill-informed rant of a customer
who expected a red card and got a black one? First of all, there were two
Sapphire 9800 non-pro cards in the NewEgg listings when this confusion
occurred. The more expensive one used the red 9800 PCB. The less expensive
one used the black PCB Sapphire developed originally for their 9500/9700 OEM
cards. The gpu was the same. Specs were the same. Clock speed was the same.
As several people in the threads you linked pointed out, performance was the
same and overclocks on either could yield performance as good as or better
than the much more expensive 9800 Pro.

Functionally, it was the same card. NewEgg told its customers up front that
1.) manufacturers frequently revised hardware and photos might not be
accurate, and 2.) refunds would not be allowed on this sale item.

The customer in question ordered a Sapphire 9800 non-pro. He got a Sapphire
9800 non-pro, at a bargain price, and then wanted his money back. I pity the
fool.

The links provide confirmation of this fact, shall I reference those
since you continue to gainsay in favor of personal agenda.

I have no personal agenda. You post unsupported third-hand criticisms, and I
try to set the record straight. You attack my motives to gloss over the fact
that you have no idea what you're talking about. It is you who have a
personal agenda -- trying in vain to save face when you have neither facts
nor logic on your side.

What misunderstanding of facts? He understood as fact, the
card he purchased was NOT the card he wanted. Performance
is not the point. Again, you are suggesting what someone else
wants is secondary to what you think.

The card he received WAS the card he ordered. That's a fact. The
misunderstanding was his, and yours.

Let's say I order a rose, and get a rose. I thought roses were red, but the
rose I got is pink. Do I have a right to demand that the florist rescind his
written no-refund policy because I didn't know there was more than one
color? Even if they smell the same? Even if the poster at the checkout
counter says "the rose you receive may not look exactly like the one in this
picture"?

Sapphire, PowerColor, Hercules, GigaByte, and even ATI are constantly
changing coolers, memory, bios versions, clock speeds and pcbs on the cards
they sell. That's why NewEgg, and every other reputable online vendor, makes
a disclaimer that specs and photos may vary. When you order, you agree to
pay for a card of a certain model that will run at a certain speed. If it
doesn't work as advertised, you get your money back. If you don't like the
color, you pay a restocking fee. It's there in black and white.

The customer who filed that complaint ignored the written warnings. His
complaint never mentioned whether he installed or tested the card, which
received rave reviews from a sizeable majority of purchasers. He wanted to
return a working piece of equipment and was upset because NewEgg wouldn't
waive the 15% restocking fee he agreed to at the time of the order.

What misconceptions are you talking about? The guy made
clear it is not the card he wanted. How he went about making
that point was unwarranted, never-the-less, the fact remains.

Let me repeat, because you seem to have a hard time understanding the
crucial point. The customer got what he ordered. If he had bothered to test
it, he might even have discovered he got what he wanted.

 

[Guest]

that US dollars right?

It's a moot point now, NewEgg no longer has the Sapphire ATI 9800np.



Well, I think we've all made our share of less than perfect buying
decisions. Blaming the seller through communal loquacious diatribe
that debunks the writer's claim falls short of the desired objective.

 

[Mario Digerati]

I yield to you, Sir!
You are right, I am wrong.
I apologize for insulting your intelligence.
I apologize for wasting your time.
I apologize for wasting the group's time.
I eat humble pie.

I hold no ill will toward you and in the future if our paths should cross, I will treat you with the utmost respect.


A good day to you, Sir!
Mario Digerati