Best CPU speed:cost ratio?

[DevilsPGD]

In message <[email protected]>

All I have to go in is that 2.7 Amp rating on the back electrical
sticker.

All I really care about is how long to set the UPS before shutdown. I
have two shutdowns set, one for general battery drain (15 min) and one
for low battery condition (1 min). I am assuming that if the batteries
crap out in 5 nimutes there will be enough reserve to go 1 more
minute.

I am going to run some tests as soon as I can find the time to chase
down the circuit breaker for my office.

I might be missing something obvious, but why not just unplug it from
the wall socket?

 

[kony]

The K6-II that I fried was a Retail Box with the official AMD cooler.
I kept it clean too. It fried one day when the room I was running the
machine in got a bit warm - about 85F. The fan was working - nothing
else got hot, not even the disk drive. But the K6-II got hot enough to
cause the Epox motherboard to issue an alarm - set at 60C. I looked up
the spec for the K6-II and it said maximum temp is 60C. The machine
would suddenly crash for no reason.

Sure, if your case is poorly cooled and the CPU overheats it
will crash. That has NOTHING to do with it being a K6-2.
Take your pick- most CPUs are subject to instability when
they go past 60C.

I traced it to a defective L2
cache. Then I replaced the K6-II and it didn't even have an L2 cache.

Yes, none of them did, that was the K6-3. Therefore, if you
did accurately "trace it to a defective L2 cache" it wasn't
the CPU at all, it was the board that failed... due to poor
case airflow since a properly working retail 'sink will NOT
result in the CPU getting that hot in an 85F ambient
environement.

I recall one box I built for my aunt that had a K6-2... she
didn't have air conditioning at the time and in summertime
it got up past 95F in her house. Her system remained stable
even though she typically had lots of junk running in the
background like AOL IM, a 3D screensaver, etc... so her box
was never really idle and yet no problems aside from user
discomfort at the ambient temp.

I got fed up with the monkey business and decided to give my business
to Intel.

You blamed the wrong parts and still are susceptible to same
types of problems if you run a box with inadequate airflow.
Heck, FAR MORE SO, since Intel's current-gen parts produce
about 3X the heat of any K6-2.

I did not get into the intricacies. The spec said 60C was the max
temp.

Well the details are fairly important, since the 60C temp
doesn't damage the CPU. Huge difference between a crash and
hardware damage. Regardless, the box wasn't set up right,
it was overheating due to poor design and that had nothing
at all to do with a K6-2.

Even if a K6-2 produced 1000W of heat instead of only 1/3
that of a modern Intel CPU, If/when someone builds a box
with (any particular CPU in it), they are _REQUIRED_ to
engineer the cooling solution as needed per the environment.
Any monkey can fit part A in socket B, but because of other
factors that must be considered, we tend to select someone
other than a monkey to build systems.

If the CPU overheated it was anything except the CPU
manufacturer's fault. Truely ironic that this is your
reason for NOW preferring the manufacturer of the hottest PC
CPUs that mankind has ever seen.

I use the term "fried the CPU" but in reality I fried the L2 cache.
The CPU itself ran fine when I disabled the L2 cache in the BIOS.

I really can't help it if you had damage or hardware config
problems... there were plenty of boxes that didn't.

All I have to go in is that 2.7 Amp rating on the back electrical
sticker.

All I really care about is how long to set the UPS before shutdown. I
have two shutdowns set, one for general battery drain (15 min) and one
for low battery condition (1 min). I am assuming that if the batteries
crap out in 5 nimutes there will be enough reserve to go 1 more
minute.

IMO, unless you NEED to keep the system running for some
reason, it's best to go ahead and shut it down ASAP, rather
than draining the batteries. That is, if the system is
unattended, it might as well shut down in 1 minute, but if
you're using it, you can then shut down as soon as you
finish (whatever), but still have the maximal manditory
shutdown that occurs right before the battery is exhausted.

I am going to run some tests as soon as I can find the time to chase
down the circuit breaker for my office.

There is no need to find the circuit breaker, just pull the
UPS plug out of the wall socket.

I rely on the considered opinions and experience of my primary vendor,
Directron. They sell enough to know if something is going to cause a
problem. The last thing they want is for customers to throw crap back
in their face.

No you are completely wrong.
Directron sells good parts and crap, both.
Particularly they sell crap PSU in cheap cases that come
"with generic PSU", just like other vendors do.

You have an unrealistic bias towards Directron for whatever
reason- perhaps their proximity, perhaps you work there. It
really doesn't matter, they're just another vendor that
largely made their mark due to having a more polished
website earlier than many other vendors.

While they occasionally have decent deals on a few parts,
their service is pathetic. I won't even go into all the
times I received broken cases from them - cases that had
large obvious damage with pieces broken off but the missing
parts weren't even in the (pristine) box.

After conversing with tech support, I'd be informed after a
couple weeks of waiting that they were then "back from
vacation and could take care of (the problem). Directron
wouldn't have survived the past few years if it weren't for
their fancy website.

Certainly there ARE far worse vendors out there, but
Directron is hardly a company to have this much confidence
in.

As mentioned the importer of that case (with PSU included) is just a
couple of buildings away from Directron so the people from both
businesses know one another. The case supplier is reputable.

That's more than can be said about auto dealerships.

Why would anyone care if the case importer is two doors
down or 3 states away?

"Reputable" means close to zero in this context. It can
still be good, or junk. The importer can be a really great
company simply importing whatever sells. Whatever sells,
often sells because of the low price point. There is plenty
of junk out there, one can without question go to
Directron's 'site right now and find (IMO) fraudulently
rated power supplies.

Here's one example
http://www.directron.com/directron400w.html

 

[Bob]

I might be missing something obvious, but why not just unplug it from
the wall socket?

You will lose earth ground and your computer will float electrically.
I believe that's called Common Mode voltage.

Because your computer is connected to the other computers on the local
network thru the CAT-V cable, you may cause them to experience a
voltage outside their operating range. By removing power at the
circuit breaker, you preserve the ground connection.

It's always a good idea to call tech support and ask them to walk you
thru an installation of something you have never used before. In this
case the instructions were full of errors (acknowledged by tech
support), and this was not mentioned. The technician warned me when I
told him I planned to test the system to see how long the batteries
would last. If I had not asked, I would have unplugged the UPS.



--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

 

[Bob]

There is no need to find the circuit breaker, just pull the
UPS plug out of the wall socket.

DO NOT UNPLUG THE UPS!!!

I don't care what anyone says. If you don't believe me, call Trip Lite
and ask them to explain why. Ask for the head of tech support.

If you unplug the UPS, you lose Earth ground and your system can float
causing a common mode voltage to appear on anything connected to it -
like the computers on your local network.


--

Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English, thank an American soldier.

 

[Bob]

Believe it or not I have nothing against Intel.

I do now (see article below).

Next time it will be AMD, as long as they don't succumb to DRM along
the way.

****ing anal control freaks just can't leave things alone.

+++
Intel's New Pentium D Equipped with DRM Capability

Digital content control now may be possible through your PC's
hardware.

Julian Bajkowski, Computerworld Today
Friday, May 27, 2005

Intel Pentium D SYDNEY -- Microsoft and the entertainment industry's
holy grail of controlling copyright through the motherboard now comes
closer as Intel said it is embedding digital rights management within
in its latest dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chip
set.

Officially launched worldwide on May 26, the new offerings come
digital-rights-management-enabled and will, at least in theory, allow
copyright holders to prevent unauthorized copying and distribution of
copyrighted materials from the motherboard rather than through the
operating system as is currently the case.

While Intel steered clear of mentioning the new DRM technology at its
Australian launch of the new products, Intel's Australian technical
manager Graham Tucker publicly confirmed Microsoft-flavored DRM
technology will be a feature of Pentium D and 945.

"[The] 945g [chip set] supports DRM, it helps implement Microsoft's
DRM ... but it supports DRM looking forward," Tucker said, adding the
DRM technology would not be able to be applied retrospectively to
media or files that did not interoperate with the new technology.

However, Tucker ducked questions regarding technical details of how
embedded DRM would work saying it was not in the interests of his
company to spell out how the technology in the interests of security.

Other Features

The situation presents an interesting dilemma for IT security managers
as they may now be beholden to hardware-embedded security over which
they have little say, information or control.

Conversely, Intel is heavily promoting what it calls "active
management technology" (AMT) in the new chips as a major plus for
system administrators and enterprise IT. Understood to be a
sub-operating system residing in the chip's firmware, AMT will allow
administrators to both monitor or control individual machines
independent of an operating system.

Additionally, AMT also features what Intel calls "IDE redirection"
which will allow administrators to remotely enable, disable or format
or configure individual drives and reload operating systems and
software from remote locations, again independent of operating
systems. Both AMT and IDE control are enabled by a new network
interface controller.

"We all know our [operating system] friends don't crash that often,
but it does happen," Tucker said.

Intel Come Clean?

Intel's reticence to speak publicly about what lies under the hood of
its latest firmware technology has also prompted calls to come clean
from IT security experts, including Queensland University of
Technology's assistant dean for strategy and innovation, IT faculty,
Bill Caelli.

"It's a dual-use technology. It's got uses and misuses. Intel has to
answer what guarantees it is prepared to give that home users are safe
from hackers. Not maybes, guarantees".

Caelli said it was "critical Intel comes clean" about how the current
DRM technology is embedded into the new CPU and chipset offering.

Microsoft was unavailable for comment at press time.
+++

 

[kony]

While Intel steered clear of mentioning the new DRM technology at its
Australian launch of the new products, Intel's Australian technical
manager Graham Tucker publicly confirmed Microsoft-flavored DRM
technology will be a feature of Pentium D and 945.

This is a bit curious, that such a significant feature went
deliberately unmentioned. Perhaps "curious" isn't the right
word, more like sneaky. Given Intel's market position they
really should be as forthcoming as possible since this is
technology the world will have to work within in the future.

"[The] 945g [chip set] supports DRM, it helps implement Microsoft's
DRM ... but it supports DRM looking forward," Tucker said, adding the
DRM technology would not be able to be applied retrospectively to
media or files that did not interoperate with the new technology.

Perhaps the one saving grace- that "HOPEFULLY" we won't have
to worry about this breaking existing software. Howver,
there was already some specualtion of this control in
Intel's forcoming chipsets, only now another confirmation of
specific CPU support.

However, Tucker ducked questions regarding technical details of how
embedded DRM would work saying it was not in the interests of his
company to spell out how the technology in the interests of security.

I agree that this is somewhat true, but it also leads one to
a conclusion that they're taking a "you don't need to know
anything, just pay us or you can't do anything anymore"
mentality. By "anything" I'm not referring to pirating
software, rather the generalized issue of using a PC that is
under the user's control rather than the user only being
able to do what they "allow".

Other Features

The situation presents an interesting dilemma for IT security managers
as they may now be beholden to hardware-embedded security over which
they have little say, information or control.

I wouldn't call ths a dilemma though, if they dont' want it
they should choose different hardware. Until it becomes
illegal to produce hardware without DRM locks, there will be
alternative products.

 

[Bob]

This is a bit curious, that such a significant feature went
deliberately unmentioned. Perhaps "curious" isn't the right
word, more like sneaky. Given Intel's market position they
really should be as forthcoming as possible since this is
technology the world will have to work within in the future.

Microsoft is involved. That explains everything.

Perhaps the one saving grace- that "HOPEFULLY" we won't have
to worry about this breaking existing software. Howver,
there was already some specualtion of this control in
Intel's forcoming chipsets, only now another confirmation of
specific CPU support.

Here's an excerpt from the specifications for the Celeron D CPU on the
Directron site.

"Power Management capabilities: System Management mode; Multiple
low-power states."

Notice those ominous words "System Management mode".

I wonder what that means.

 

[kony]

Here's an excerpt from the specifications for the Celeron D CPU on the
Directron site.

"Power Management capabilities: System Management mode; Multiple
low-power states."

Notice those ominous words "System Management mode".

I wonder what that means.

Probably what's written on the box. For more details see
the Celeron D spec sheet @ http://www.intel.com

 

[Bob]

Probably what's written on the box.

I don't read boxes. Do you know what it means?

For more details see
the Celeron D spec sheet @ http://www.intel.com

Spec sheets are deliberately vague. Why don't you tell us what that
ominous statement means.

 

[Pen]

Just curious, but why do you question only part of the
statement?
"Power Management capabilities: System Management mode; Multiple
low-power states."

The third phrase clearly states what the 2nd phrase does, while the
1st phrase explains what the other 2 will speak to.

 

[Bob]

Just curious, but why do you question only part of the
statement?

"Power Management capabilities: System Management mode; Multiple
low-power states."

The third phrase clearly states what the 2nd phrase does, while the
1st phrase explains what the other 2 will speak to.

OK, then it appears my CPU does not have any undue management
capabilities hidden in it.