Attn. Microsoft - BUG REPORT!

[Jim]

It's really silly that this seems to be the only way to
report legitimate bugs without PAYING for customer
service! Methinks Microsoft's web server would meltdown if
there was a "bug report" link on the home page.

Bug 1: Windows XP Pro Updater hangs when updating from
Win98SE if 4DOS is the default command interpreter. It
took me a few hours to science this one out. Reverting to
COMMAND.COM in CONFIG.SYS will fix this. Lot's of software
developers used 4DOS with Win95/98 because of it's support
for very long command lines (handy for complex makefiles).
You could make their lives considerably easier by
confirming this, and then adding it to the KB.

Bug 2: Recent security updates in WinXP Pro have
effectively broken PORT command in FTP client
applications. Remote server acknowledges PORT command, and
successfully opens the port, but WinXP FTP client hangs.
Using an FTP client that supports PASV mode works. No
firewalls (internal or external) or NAT, or TCP/IP
filtering, or ICS, or blah blah blah. Problem exists with
either local ethernet or internet FTP connections. FTP
clients under Win98se and Win2K work fine with same
servers and network. Other threads in the "networking"
newsgroup seem to indicate that this USED to work!

I currently use Cygwin FTP client to get around this, as
the WinXP console client doesn't support PASV mode, and I
couldn't get IE's FTP mode to work AT ALL with a LAN using
fixed IP's and no DNS server. Seem's IE doesn't like FTP
URL's with an IP address instead of a domain name.

Bug 3: FTP port 21 connection closes automatically after
period of inactivity (a few minutes) in WinXP using any
FTP client. This can be demonstrated by transferring a
very large file (few hundred megs) to an FTP server, and
then FTP client hangs after finishing the file transfer.
All WinXP FTP clients affected. Win98se and Win2K clients
work fine with same servers.

Ok, if a Microsoft rep or MVP would simply acknowledge
that these problems exist, and that someone is working on
it, then I'll shut up and go away.

 

[Pat Garard]

If you are a Man of Substance, as obviously you are,
You MAY change the world!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can install ALL updates from
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en&categoryid=7!!!

Please do NOT feel that you MUST use Windows
Update - that's for Nerds!!

Please do NOT feel that you MUST install EVRY
Update - also for NERDS!!

(We NERDS know that to use Windows Update, we
need Internet Explorer and the Default Command Line
Interpreter - a Problem? What Problem????)

Excercise your Freedom, together with a commensurate
level of responsibility!!
--
Regards,
Pat Garard
Australia

______________________________________

 

[Kelly]

No comment, but I agree!

 

[Jim]

I hope you can remove your tongue from your cheek just
long enough to read my reply...

The "Updater" I referred to is the application which comes
on the "Windows XP Pro Upgrade" CD, which is for those who
want to upgrade from a previous Microsoft operating
system. I don't recall the actual name of this application
since I've obviously already UPGRADED to Windows XP Pro.
This is as opposed to the installation application that
would come with the "Full Version" of Windows XP.

Forgive me, I should have called it the "upgrader".

In brief, if you are upgrading a Win98se system to Windows
XP Pro, and if you have 4DOS installed as your default
command line interpreter, then the Windows XP upgrade
application will halt early in the installation process.
It's NOT because it was run from the command line (though
I'm not adverse to using the command line when needed).
It's because the upgrade program apparently tries to run
batch scripts through the default command interpreter,
which obviously causes problems with 4DOS.

The upgrade analysis tool that also comes with Windows XP
Upgrade halts for the same reason.

I installed ALL of the critical updates using "Windows
Update" right after I got my ISP connections working under
WinXP. My employer requires me to keep the latest critical
updates installed at all times if I'm to use my home PC
with VPN to connect to the company network.

Ok?

 

[Mike Brannigan [MSFT]]

I hope you can remove your tongue from your cheek just
long enough to read my reply...

The "Updater" I referred to is the application which comes
on the "Windows XP Pro Upgrade" CD, which is for those who
want to upgrade from a previous Microsoft operating
system. I don't recall the actual name of this application
since I've obviously already UPGRADED to Windows XP Pro.
This is as opposed to the installation application that
would come with the "Full Version" of Windows XP.

Forgive me, I should have called it the "upgrader".

In brief, if you are upgrading a Win98se system to Windows
XP Pro, and if you have 4DOS installed as your default
command line interpreter, then the Windows XP upgrade
application will halt early in the installation process.
It's NOT because it was run from the command line (though
I'm not adverse to using the command line when needed).
It's because the upgrade program apparently tries to run
batch scripts through the default command interpreter,
which obviously causes problems with 4DOS.

The upgrade analysis tool that also comes with Windows XP
Upgrade halts for the same reason.

I installed ALL of the critical updates using "Windows
Update" right after I got my ISP connections working under
WinXP. My employer requires me to keep the latest critical
updates installed at all times if I'm to use my home PC
with VPN to connect to the company network.

JIm,

Re: Bug1
Another way to look at the following phrase you posted is
"...

It's because the upgrade program apparently tries to run
batch scripts through the default command interpreter,
which obviously causes problems with 4DOS.

...."

'It's because the third party command line interpreter replacement does not
handle the scripts and calls made to it correctly in the same way as the
built in command interpreter does.'
- so it is possible that your "bug" is actually an issue with your
replacement command interpreter. Since the setup works correctly with the
original configuration.
Replacing "system" components with third party code that "breaks" other
applications is not a bug in the original product.

"Bug" 2. - please state which update break previous functionality.

"Bug" 3 - is this an FTP server running on Windows XP or the command line
FTP functionality ?


--
Regards,

Mike
--
Mike Brannigan [Microsoft]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights

Please note I cannot respond to e-mailed questions, please use these
newsgroups

 

[Jim]

I checked out your web site. Nice work! I've bookmarked it
for future reference.

Since you're an MVP you may be able to pass this
information on to the appropriate people at Microsoft.

As my response to Mr. Garard indicates, the problem with
4DOS is related to upgrading from Win98se, and
NOT "updating" WinXP. Forgive me for not remembering the
details, but it's been over a month since I did the
upgrade, and I spent much time browsing the KB looking for
a solution before I tried swapping out 4DOS for
COMMAND.COM. If this problem had been described I would
have been up and running much faster. It should be easy
enough for MS to reproduce this problem, and write a nice
KB article about it.

The FTP problems are real enough, and I'm not the only
person to have these problems. Just search
the "Networking" newsgroup. The only solution everyone
seems to have is to use PASV mode. Unfortunately, PASV
mode was intended to be used when you're operating behind
a firewall, and the firewall won't accept connections
which are initiated from the server (which is how the
default PORT mode works). As I said, I'm not using any
type of firewall, NAT, ICS, filtering, or anything else
that would explain this problem.

What's REALLY a kicker here is that the WinXP FTP console
client (or any other client using PORT commands) TELLS the
server which port to open, and then allows the server to
open the port, but blocks packets sent to this port, which
leaves the FTP client hanging. Others on the "Networking"
newsgroup have said that the WinXP console FTP client used
to work a few months ago, before some of the more recent
updates. I only recently tried it for the first time,
having already installed all updates. Without support for
PASV mode, the WinXP console FTP client is pretty useless
as long as this problem exists.

Using PASV mode with Cygwin FTP or WS-FTP is a workable
solution for now, but it would be nice if this problem was
fixed as this is NOT how RFC 0959 intended for FTP to work.

The timeout problem is more pressing. I have to forcibly
shutdown the FTP client after each large file transfer.
This means shutting down and restarting Cygwin. This is a
real pain if I have a number of files to transfer (which I
often do). The user command MPUT can't be used because it
requires the FTP client to negotiate each file using port
21. In other words, it sends the first file and then hangs.

Forgive me for being impatient, but I only decided to post
these problems after much searching and reading in both
the KB and newsgroups, and seeing other users having the
same problems being given the same kind of condescending
answers, or just plainly being ignored. I'm only asking
that someone at Microsoft give it a try and confirm
whether the problems exist. I'm also a software developer,
though I don't develop Windows applications. When my
customers report a bug I don't humiliate them, tease them,
or deny that the problem exists. Rather, I do everything I
can to reproduce the problem and fix it. Otherwise, my
customers won't use my software, and I won't have a job!

Jim

-----Original Message-----
No comment, but I agree!

--
All the Best,
Kelly

MS-MVP Win98/XP
[AE-Windows® XP]

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com

Utilities for Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_u.htm#xp_util


"Pat Garard" <apgarardATbigpondPERIODnetPERIODau> wrote in message

If you are a Man of Substance, as obviously you are,
You MAY change the world!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can install ALL updates from
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx? displaylang=en&categoryid=7!!!

Please do NOT feel that you MUST use Windows
Update - that's for Nerds!!

Please do NOT feel that you MUST install EVRY
Update - also for NERDS!!

(We NERDS know that to use Windows Update, we
need Internet Explorer and the Default Command Line
Interpreter - a Problem? What Problem????)

Excercise your Freedom, together with a commensurate
level of responsibility!!
--
Regards,
Pat Garard
Australia

______________________________________

.

 

[Jim]

I would probably describe this as an "incompatibility
between the installer application and 4DOS". I wouldn't
call it a "bug" in 4DOS, since the 4DOS batch facility is
far more advanced than anything COMMAND.COM ever offered.
But I digress...

It's safe to assume that many other users besides myself
are using software that did NOT come from Microsoft. These
users just might want to upgrade to XP Pro, and might run
into the same problem. All I'm suggesting is a KB article
describing this "incompatibility" so that you can save
those other folks the hours I spent trying to figure this
problem out. I KNOW I've read a lot of KB articles that
describe incompatibilities between MS and 3rd party
applications.

Incidently, since the installer presumes that COMMAND.COM
is installed and being used, even though MS knows that
4DOS and Caldera exist and are being used by many people,
I would STILL call this a bug because it was the installer
and not 4DOS that crashed.

Bug 2: I'm not sure which update caused the problem. As I
mentioned, I installed ALL critical updates as soon as I
got the O/S running and my ISP connections working. I
didn't try to use FTP before that. As I also mentioned, I
read messages on the "Networking" newsgroup from other
users who claimed that it used to work properly. Since I
installed all of the updates right away, it never worked
properly for me.

Bug 3: In my case, the FTP server is WU-FTP running under
RedHat Linux 7. Both the Linux system and my WinXP system
are used fixed IP's (192.168.0.1 for Linux, and
192.168.0.2 for WinXP). There's also a Win98 and Win2K
system on this same LAN. FTP works correctly from both of
them. Again, others in the "Networking" newsgroup have
claimed the exact same symptoms using FTP via Internet
connections.

Jim