L
Leythos
Defective and broken on purpose don't mean the same thing.
Yes, they would both be broken, but, if you break it you don't have a leg
to stand on.
Defective and broken on purpose don't mean the same thing.
Yes, they would both be broken, but, if you break it you don't have a leg
to stand on.
D
Dave Balcom
}If you're willing to activate Vista by deceit then why not simply walk into
}Best Buy, slip a copy under your shirt, and take it home. Then you won't
}have to call India at all.
Isn't there a difference between stealing from a store, and re-using
something you already leased/rented/purchased (depending on what you
call paying for software)? Re-activating is re-using...
If I buy the OEM version at whatever cost, build my own workstation,
then replace the parts later piece by piece (done that over 17 years
now) how is that stealing by deceit? There is only one computer and it
is mine.
Please don't get into the "spirit" of the license because there ain't no
spirit when it comes to Microsoft and their customers. They are trying
to make as much profit as possible and I presume their customers are
trying to get the best bang for their buck. I know I am.
I apologize if I took this out of context but when it comes down to what
was intended in a software license that is going just a little too far.
Besides, Best Buy is a horrible example if you were talking about
business morals.
}Best Buy, slip a copy under your shirt, and take it home. Then you won't
}have to call India at all.
Isn't there a difference between stealing from a store, and re-using
something you already leased/rented/purchased (depending on what you
call paying for software)? Re-activating is re-using...
If I buy the OEM version at whatever cost, build my own workstation,
then replace the parts later piece by piece (done that over 17 years
now) how is that stealing by deceit? There is only one computer and it
is mine.
Please don't get into the "spirit" of the license because there ain't no
spirit when it comes to Microsoft and their customers. They are trying
to make as much profit as possible and I presume their customers are
trying to get the best bang for their buck. I know I am.
I apologize if I took this out of context but when it comes down to what
was intended in a software license that is going just a little too far.
Besides, Best Buy is a horrible example if you were talking about
business morals.
D
Dale
So it's only stealing if you get caught?
Dale
Dale
D
Dave Balcom
}So it's only stealing if you get caught?
Caught doing WHAT? My point was if it is your home built system then you
should be able to use the OEM version you purchased as long as you want
-- period.
Caught doing WHAT? My point was if it is your home built system then you
should be able to use the OEM version you purchased as long as you want
-- period.
D
Dale
Except that, when you agree to the license terms and the installer agrees to
the OEM terms, you agree otherwise. So forget the thievery part; let's just
agree on this one thing that is pretty obvious:
If you have to lie to get it activated, then it is dishonestly obtained,
right? If you are willing to lie to get it activated then you are a liar,
right?
Dale
the OEM terms, you agree otherwise. So forget the thievery part; let's just
agree on this one thing that is pretty obvious:
If you have to lie to get it activated, then it is dishonestly obtained,
right? If you are willing to lie to get it activated then you are a liar,
right?
Dale
B
BSchnur
If you have to lie to get it activated, then it is dishonestly obtained,
make sure to call Microsoft a bully though to demonstrate that you
really are fair and balanced.
Right, let's use value laden terms -- makes for good 'discussion' --
make sure to call Microsoft a bully though to demonstrate that you
really are fair and balanced.
D
Dale
Value laden terms? One's acceptance of such behavior might be "value laden"
but the term lie is simply a verb and liar is simply one who lies. There's
nothing value laden in that; that's just the facts. Telling the guy in
India that your motherboard quit if that is not true is lying.
Whether or not Microsoft is a bully is not part of the equation in whether
to steal Vista.
I do support the idea of protest by civil disobedience, though. Of course,
to be effective, civil disobedience requires that the person publicly pay
the consequences of his/her actions; that's the whole intent - bringing
public attention to the problem. It also means that the disobedient one
isn't personally benefiting from the actions. If they're personally
benefiting then their protest loses all meaning. They are just stealing and
not protesting.
So, if you really want to take a stand against the bully Microsoft, I say go
for it. You could help a whole bunch of poor people who can't otherwise
afford it install Vista while wearing your BadVista.com t-shirt for when
they arrest you. You'll be a modern Robin Hood.
Dale
but the term lie is simply a verb and liar is simply one who lies. There's
nothing value laden in that; that's just the facts. Telling the guy in
India that your motherboard quit if that is not true is lying.
Whether or not Microsoft is a bully is not part of the equation in whether
to steal Vista.
I do support the idea of protest by civil disobedience, though. Of course,
to be effective, civil disobedience requires that the person publicly pay
the consequences of his/her actions; that's the whole intent - bringing
public attention to the problem. It also means that the disobedient one
isn't personally benefiting from the actions. If they're personally
benefiting then their protest loses all meaning. They are just stealing and
not protesting.
So, if you really want to take a stand against the bully Microsoft, I say go
for it. You could help a whole bunch of poor people who can't otherwise
afford it install Vista while wearing your BadVista.com t-shirt for when
they arrest you. You'll be a modern Robin Hood.
Dale
D
Dave Balcom
}I do support the idea of protest by civil disobedience, though.
So it is OK to break some laws -- in the name of some self-justified
cause -- and not others? Who decides which is which? I think I already
know that answer...
You are throwing around terms like stealing, deceit and lying when it
comes to the continued use of OEM software but "civil disobedience" is
OK?
We can agree to disagree...
So it is OK to break some laws -- in the name of some self-justified
cause -- and not others? Who decides which is which? I think I already
know that answer...
You are throwing around terms like stealing, deceit and lying when it
comes to the continued use of OEM software but "civil disobedience" is
OK?
We can agree to disagree...
D
Dale
Protest is a good thing. I am not advocating surrender to corporatism in
any way. That is my point. I don't think Microsoft is perfect. You're
right; they are bullies.
But when your protest only extends to your own benefit, that's simply
stealing, that's all.
any way. That is my point. I don't think Microsoft is perfect. You're
right; they are bullies.
But when your protest only extends to your own benefit, that's simply
stealing, that's all.
D
Dale
Oh, and one more thing. I don't give a damn about obeying the law.
Stealing has nothing to do with the law. Or religion. Those are things you
can choose to go along with or not to go along with. Right and wrong go
beyond either or both.
Dale
Stealing has nothing to do with the law. Or religion. Those are things you
can choose to go along with or not to go along with. Right and wrong go
beyond either or both.
Dale
B
BSchnur
OK -- I can see that there is a case of nerves being touched here for
multiple parties.
Let's agree to disagree as our 'world/word views' differ.
multiple parties.
Let's agree to disagree as our 'world/word views' differ.
D
Dale
I take it that you approve of stealing then?
B
BSchnur
I take it that you approve of stealing then?
As I said, differing word/world views -- though it seems you need to
toss word grenades about here.
There are those who might choose to define Microsoft's approach to
licensing as theft. So I guess I could return the favor and ask you
the same question.
I just don't see the point here of continuing with implicit ad hominem
'debate'.
As I said, differing word/world views -- though it seems you need to
toss word grenades about here.
There are those who might choose to define Microsoft's approach to
licensing as theft. So I guess I could return the favor and ask you
the same question.
I just don't see the point here of continuing with implicit ad hominem
'debate'.
D
Dale
Ohhhh.. so it's ok to steal from Microsoft because you think their approach
to licensing, which you voluntarily subscribe to, is stealing. I got it
now.
to licensing, which you voluntarily subscribe to, is stealing. I got it
now.
A
Alias
Dale said:
No, the question is is it all right for MS to steal with their scammy
little buy a license to use and restrictive EULA's?
"Now, a very great man once said
That some people rob you with a fountain pen.
It didn't take too long to find out
Just what he was talkin' about." - Talking New York
Alias
D
Dale
Anyone who has been robbed by Microsoft's
scammy-little-buy-a-license-to-use-and-restrictive EULA's walked right up to
the crook with their eyes wide open and just handed him their cash.
The opportunity to object is before agreeing to the license.
Dale
scammy-little-buy-a-license-to-use-and-restrictive EULA's walked right up to
the crook with their eyes wide open and just handed him their cash.
The opportunity to object is before agreeing to the license.
Dale
Alias said:
A
Alias
Dale said:Anyone who has been robbed by Microsoft's
scammy-little-buy-a-license-to-use-and-restrictive EULA's walked right
up to the crook with their eyes wide open and just handed him their cash.
The opportunity to object is before agreeing to the license.
Dale
You mean like Henry Ford saying his customers could have their car
painted any color they wanted as long as it was black?
MOST people don't know what an EULA is. MOST people don't know they are
not buying software but a license. MOST people cannot build their own
computers and most pre-built computers come loaded with Windows. All web
sites and brick and mortar computer stores advertise that they sell
"software", not a license. THAT's why MS gets away with it, not because
of the actions -- or lack thereof -- of a few informed consumers and not
because the sales clerk at Best Buy explained anything of substance to
the customer.
Alias
B
BSchnur
Ohhhh.. so it's ok to steal from Microsoft because you think their approach
didn't say I advocated this, I was pointing out that your posts were
and are increasingly ad hominem in nature and offered a 'for instance'.
But you seem to have this compulsion and far be it from me to mediate
your need to antagonize.
Sounds like you need to actually review what's been typed here. I
didn't say I advocated this, I was pointing out that your posts were
and are increasingly ad hominem in nature and offered a 'for instance'.
But you seem to have this compulsion and far be it from me to mediate
your need to antagonize.
D
Dale
Well, you can be politically correct, never call a spade a spade, and can't
we all just get along... and live like sheep... Or you can take stands.
What you do is up to you.
Dale
we all just get along... and live like sheep... Or you can take stands.
What you do is up to you.
Dale
B
BSchnur
Well, you can be politically correct, never call a spade a spade, and can't
Agression sometimes is used to mask underlying issues in a wave of
histrionics. I'm reminded of newsreels of a number of public speakers
over the decades.
Civility is not something which must be tossed out when taking stands.
Agression sometimes is used to mask underlying issues in a wave of
histrionics. I'm reminded of newsreels of a number of public speakers
over the decades.