ATI AIW X800 for PCI-E?

[John Peterson]

Hello all!

I'm sure this question has been posted several times, but a cursory search through the
newsgroup didn't yield any clues.

I'm a long-time user of ATI's All-In-Wonder 8500DV and I love the card's capabilities
(even though I have intermittent "freezes" with it). I have upgraded to a new computer
(Dell Dimension XPS Generation 4) and bought a ATI All-In-Wonder X800 XT with an AGP
interface without realizing that the Dell only supports PCI Express (yeah, yeah...it's
been a learning experience ;-).

From what I gather, ATI does not yet have a PCI-E version of the AIW X800. I was hoping
to verify whether that is, indeed, the case?

Thanks for any help that anyone can provide!

John Peterson

 

[Augustus]

From what I gather, ATI does not yet have a PCI-E version of the AIW X800.

I was hoping to verify whether that is, indeed, the case?

Thanks for any help that anyone can provide!

Not yet available in PCI-E versions unfortunately.

 

[John Peterson]

Not yet available in PCI-E versions unfortunately.

Thanks Augustus. That's what I was afraid of. :-(

Any rumors to when/if such a thing will be manufactured?

What, then, are my alternatives if I'm looking for a PCI Express-based All-In-Wonder card?
The X600 Pro?

Thanks again!

 

[Augustus]

Not yet available in PCI-E versions unfortunately.

Thanks Augustus. That's what I was afraid of. :-(

Any rumors to when/if such a thing will be manufactured?

What, then, are my alternatives if I'm looking for a PCI Express-based
All-In-Wonder card? The X600 Pro?

ATI currently has the AIW X600 Pro 256Mb PCI-E card available. That's
basically it. It's a decent card, but definitely not in X800XT territory. If
all you need is the TV capability, consider a separate ATI TV Wonder or HDTV
Wonder card (they're regular PCI) and get an X800XT PCI-E.

 

[J. Clarke]

ATI currently has the AIW X600 Pro 256Mb PCI-E card available. That's
basically it. It's a decent card, but definitely not in X800XT territory.
If all you need is the TV capability, consider a separate ATI TV Wonder or
HDTV Wonder card (they're regular PCI) and get an X800XT PCI-E.

The new TV Wonder Elite has a newer video processing chip than any of the
AIWs, however it apparently doesn't work with ATI's multimedia center.

Regardless, after several AIWs I went to a separate tuner card and found
that it's all around a more satisfactory solution.

 

[John Peterson]

The new TV Wonder Elite has a newer video processing chip than any of the
AIWs, however it apparently doesn't work with ATI's multimedia center.

Regardless, after several AIWs I went to a separate tuner card and found
that it's all around a more satisfactory solution.

Thanks Augustus/John!

Understood about the X600 Pro versus the X800 XT. I would assume, however, that the X600
Pro represents an upgrade over my current AIW 8500DV in my previous computer?

I like the AIW for the other multimedia capabilities, but I *do* mainly just watch TV with
it. And, since I have a FireWire input separate from the card on the new computer
(before, I was using FireWire from the 8500DV, and notice that the X800 doesn't have
native FireWire support), most of my digital video editing should be able to be managed
that way.

John, what combination of video card/TV tuner did you wind up with, and why is it a more
satisfactory solution in your opinion?

Thanks again!

 

[Augustus]

Understood about the X600 Pro versus the X800 XT. I would assume,

however, that the X600 Pro represents an upgrade over my current AIW
8500DV in my previous computer?

Yes, it's a upgrade especially for an older card like yours. The 64Mb AIW
8500DV is crippled with slow core and 128bit memory (230Mhz and 190Mhz
respectively) compared even to the standard 64Mb and 128Mb 8500 which is at
275Mhz /275Mhz. The 256Mb X600 Pro does 400Mhz core /and the 128bit memory
is at 300Mhz. It's a true DX9 card, with 3D performance around the 9600 Pro
level. This AIW does not come with a remote. If the ability to play games
like Halo, Doom3, Far Cry, Half-life2, etc is an issue, avoid this card.
It'll do it at 1024x768, but a framerates in the teens when FSAA and other
options enabled.

 

[J. Clarke]

Thanks Augustus/John!

Understood about the X600 Pro versus the X800 XT. I would assume,
however, that the X600 Pro represents an upgrade over my current AIW
8500DV in my previous computer?

I like the AIW for the other multimedia capabilities, but I *do* mainly
just watch TV with
it. And, since I have a FireWire input separate from the card on the new
computer (before, I was using FireWire from the 8500DV, and notice that
the X800 doesn't have native FireWire support), most of my digital video
editing should be able to be managed that way.

John, what combination of video card/TV tuner did you wind up with, and
why is it a more satisfactory solution in your opinion?

Right now I'm using a Dvico Fusion HDTV II and a Hauppauge PVR-USB2 with a
9800Pro. I was surprised to find that the analog portion of the Fusion
worked reliably under ATI Multimedia Center.

The major advantage for me is HD. Can't get that with any AIW unless you
use a second tuner. With HD it's very nice to have two monitors, which
most AIWs do not allow unless one of them is a standard-definition
television. It's very nice to be able to check email or whatever on the
main screen while watching HD on a projector.

I got the PVR-USB2 to allow me to use Media Center Edition 2005, which I was
curious about--turns out that MCE is very, very nice, the closest PC-based
solution to a Tivo that I've seen yet--it _requires_ hardware-based analog
compression, which one couldn't get from any ATI board at the time except
the e-home wonder that works _only_ with MCE. I figured that if I didn't
like MCE I could still use the PVR on my laptop, which is another benefit
of having a separate tuner--it can be moved to a different machine should
the need arise.

I was surprised at how much workload the PVR took off the CPU (Athlon 3200)
during analog recording--no dropped frames at any quality level and IIRC
something under 10% utilization, with quality as high as I've ever gotten
off of any ATI product--I haven't seen a 550-based board yet though.

 

[John Peterson]

Yes, it's a upgrade especially for an older card like yours. The 64Mb AIW 8500DV is
crippled with slow core and 128bit memory (230Mhz and 190Mhz respectively) compared even
to the standard 64Mb and 128Mb 8500 which is at 275Mhz /275Mhz. The 256Mb X600 Pro does
400Mhz core /and the 128bit memory is at 300Mhz. It's a true DX9 card, with 3D
performance around the 9600 Pro level. This AIW does not come with a remote. If the
ability to play games like Halo, Doom3, Far Cry, Half-life2, etc is an issue, avoid this
card. It'll do it at 1024x768, but a framerates in the teens when FSAA and other options
enabled.

Thanks (again) Augustus! I hadn't realized that the X600 didn't come with a remote, and I
find that convenient (though not absolutely necessary).

I don't play many games, but I'd sure like the option to do so in a reasonable manner. It
sounds like it's not well suited for games, though. But, again, maybe it's still better
than what I'm getting with the 8500DV (however, I haven't been able to play many games
because it seizes my system)?

What I do, mostly, with the AIW is a) watch TV and b) digital video editing from a variety
of formats. Having RCA/S-Video/etc. available as in/out is awfully convenient,
particularly with some of my older camcorders. Lastly, I'd play games with it. Is there
some configuration you might recommend that would let me have the best of all these
worlds? Do you think the X600 would suffice, particularly if my "benchmark" is the
8500DV? (That is, until the X800, or similar, comes out in a PCI-E interface. ;-)

Thanks again!

 

[John Peterson]

Right now I'm using a Dvico Fusion HDTV II and a Hauppauge PVR-USB2 with a
9800Pro. I was surprised to find that the analog portion of the Fusion
worked reliably under ATI Multimedia Center.

The major advantage for me is HD. Can't get that with any AIW unless you
use a second tuner. With HD it's very nice to have two monitors, which
most AIWs do not allow unless one of them is a standard-definition
television. It's very nice to be able to check email or whatever on the
main screen while watching HD on a projector.

I got the PVR-USB2 to allow me to use Media Center Edition 2005, which I was
curious about--turns out that MCE is very, very nice, the closest PC-based
solution to a Tivo that I've seen yet--it _requires_ hardware-based analog
compression, which one couldn't get from any ATI board at the time except
the e-home wonder that works _only_ with MCE. I figured that if I didn't
like MCE I could still use the PVR on my laptop, which is another benefit
of having a separate tuner--it can be moved to a different machine should
the need arise.

I was surprised at how much workload the PVR took off the CPU (Athlon 3200)
during analog recording--no dropped frames at any quality level and IIRC
something under 10% utilization, with quality as high as I've ever gotten
off of any ATI product--I haven't seen a 550-based board yet though.

Thanks John!

Your setup sounds very intriguing! I'm not really familiar with any of the non-ATI
products you cite, and wondered what kind of bus interfaces the various cards use, and
whether there are concerns with conflicts with a similar configuration (like if I were to
use an X850 instead of a 9800Pro)?

 

[Augustus]

I don't play many games, but I'd sure like the option to do so in a

reasonable manner. It sounds like it's not well suited for games, though.
But, again, maybe it's still better than what I'm getting with the 8500DV
(however, I haven't been able to play many games because it seizes my
system)?

What I do, mostly, with the AIW is a) watch TV and b) digital video
editing from a variety of formats. Having RCA/S-Video/etc. available as
in/out is awfully convenient, particularly with some of my older
camcorders. Lastly, I'd play games with it. Is there some configuration
you might recommend that would let me have the best of all these worlds?
Do you think the X600 would suffice, particularly if my "benchmark" is the
8500DV? (That is, until the X800, or similar, comes out in a PCI-E
interface. ;-)

What I would recommend is this...
http://www.ati.com/products/tvwonderproremote/index.html

coupled with a 128Mb 9800 Pro card. The 128Mb 9800 Pro is a bargain (about
$150-175 new) and is twice the gaming card of the X600 Pro. 3DMark03 default
benchmark on an ATI 8500DV / 3.0Ghz system gets about 1800-1900. (My 8500 at
300/300 got 2500) A 9800 Pro will do around 6000 and will play any modern
game at decent framerates and resolution. By comparison, an X600 Pro would
bench at about 4000. This is basically what I use on my Barton 3200 box, and
it runs FarCry at 1152x864 with FSAA, high details no problem. Where the
9800 Pro shows it's limitations is when the resolution is cranked up to
1280x1024 and beyond on the more demanding games.

 

[John Peterson]

What I would recommend is this...
http://www.ati.com/products/tvwonderproremote/index.html

coupled with a 128Mb 9800 Pro card. The 128Mb 9800 Pro is a bargain (about $150-175 new)
and is twice the gaming card of the X600 Pro. 3DMark03 default benchmark on an ATI
8500DV / 3.0Ghz system gets about 1800-1900. (My 8500 at 300/300 got 2500) A 9800 Pro
will do around 6000 and will play any modern game at decent framerates and resolution.
By comparison, an X600 Pro would bench at about 4000. This is basically what I use on my
Barton 3200 box, and it runs FarCry at 1152x864 with FSAA, high details no problem.
Where the 9800 Pro shows it's limitations is when the resolution is cranked up to
1280x1024 and beyond on the more demanding games.

Thanks Augustus! That TV Wonder Pro looks like it's the TV (and FM?) Tuner, with video
capturing capability (if I read that right). Is the HDTV Wonder essentially the same
thing, but also capable for HDTV? (That is, is the TV Wonder Pro a subset of the HDTV
Wonder?)

If money were no object, could I go with the X850 in lieu of the 9800 Pro, in conjunction
with either the TV/HDTV Wonder?

 

[John Peterson]

Thanks Augustus! That TV Wonder Pro looks like it's the TV (and FM?) Tuner, with video
capturing capability (if I read that right). Is the HDTV Wonder essentially the same
thing, but also capable for HDTV? (That is, is the TV Wonder Pro a subset of the HDTV
Wonder?)

If money were no object, could I go with the X850 in lieu of the 9800 Pro, in
conjunction with either the TV/HDTV Wonder?

Additionally, if I were to go with the 9800 Pro and TV Wonder Pro, would it make more
sense to do the AIW 9800 Pro and consolidate that all on one card? Or is there something
"special" by virtue of having the TV tuner separate?

 

[Augustus]

Additionally, if I were to go with the 9800 Pro and TV Wonder Pro, would

it make more sense to do the AIW 9800 Pro and consolidate that all on one
card? Or is there something "special" by virtue of having the TV tuner
separate?

That would also be an excellent choice....it comes with a remote too.
Pricewise it would be about equal, but setup would be simplified with just
the AIW 9800 Pro. The only thing it won't do is HDTV.

 

[John Peterson]

That would also be an excellent choice....it comes with a remote too. Pricewise it would
be about equal, but setup would be simplified with just the AIW 9800 Pro. The only thing
it won't do is HDTV.

Awright -- this is what I decided to do:

I upgraded my video card from Dell (which had provided the 256MB PCI Express x16
(DVI/VGA/TV-out) nVidia GeForce 6800) to a 256MB PCI Express x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI
Radeon X850 XT PE. (The nVidia is the one I was trying to replace with the ATI Radeon
All-In-Wonder X800 XT before I realized the bus incompatibility.)

I have ordered the ATI TV Wonder Elite from Newegg.com.

I *think* this combination should give me the best of all worlds, in terms of how I used
my original ATI AIW 8500DV (at least, I *hope* so!).

Thanks for your help, Augustus and John!