ATI 9200 won't synch above 75 hertz...why?

[Don Enderton]

My monitor is a Dell (Sony) Trinitron D1025HT which per its specs can run at
a vertical synch rate of 100 hertz, and has done so with two older video
cards. The monitor reports its synch rate if I press a certain button on
the monitor.

The monitor reports a synch rate of only 75 hertz, whether the 9200 (through
Settings in Display Properties) is set to 75, 85, or 100 hertz. XP's System
Information confirms the 9200 settings.

Why won't the ATI brand 9200 synch with my monitor at higher than 75, when
the monitor runs at 100 with other cards?

Is the card defective? The monitor is not defective (not when used with my
older cards).

 

[JAD]

what is the description of your monitor in display properties.

 

[Don Enderton]

"Dell 1726T-HS/D1025HT" is the description of my monitor in display
properties. For location, the same tab says "on RADEON 9200."

-- Don

 

[Daniel Tonks]

My monitor is a Dell (Sony) Trinitron D1025HT which per its specs can run at
a vertical synch rate of 100 hertz, and has done so with two older video
cards. The monitor reports its synch rate if I press a certain button on
the monitor.

The monitor reports a synch rate of only 75 hertz, whether the 9200 (through
Settings in Display Properties) is set to 75, 85, or 100 hertz. XP's System
Information confirms the 9200 settings.

Why won't the ATI brand 9200 synch with my monitor at higher than 75, when
the monitor runs at 100 with other cards?

Is the card defective? The monitor is not defective (not when used with my
older cards).

Nothing wrong with the card. This is a known issue with XP. Instead of
hacking through the registry, what I suggest is you download a program
called "Reforce" (http://www.pagehosting.co.uk/rf/) which will allow you to
modify your monitor's profile. What the program does is fool the computer
into thinking that the lowest refresh rate your monitor will run is the one
you want it to run at - be it 75Hz, 85Hz, 100Hz, etc.

When you load it up the program displays a list of all possible resolutions
and the maximum refresh rate supported by your monitor profile. Just change
any that are too high to a lower value (like if it says 150Hz at 640x480 you
might want to make that 100Hz instead) then apply and reboot. Another tip -
go to Display Properties - Settings - Advanced - Monitor and make sure the
"Hide modes that this monitor cannot display" option is ticked, otherwise
this may not work.

This forces your refresh rate in all 2D and 3D applications. Note that the
number you enter has to be supported by the video driver - so don't enter
odd numbers like "96Hz", stick with what you know is an option like 85Hz,
90Hz, 100Hz, etc.

This has worked well for me for over a year...

- Daniel

 

[DaveW]

What resolution is your graphics card set to? That may be the problem.

 

[Don Enderton]

800 x 600, 100 hertz

-- Don

What resolution is your graphics card set to? That may be the problem.

--
DaveW



run

 

[Don Enderton]

But Daniel, XP is reporting it is supporting the refresh rate I want, 100
hertz. It's the MONITOR which says it's only at 75 hertz even though XP is
reporting 100.

In view of that, do you still think "Reforce" would help?

- Don

 

[Daniel Tonks]

But Daniel, XP is reporting it is supporting the refresh rate I want, 100
hertz. It's the MONITOR which says it's only at 75 hertz even though XP is
reporting 100.

In view of that, do you still think "Reforce" would help?

That's exactly what Reforce is designed to fix.

- Daniel

 

[Don Enderton]

This is not happening in just games. It's when nothing is running, except
the desktop.

Are you saying XP is programmed to tell me the card is running at 100 hertz
when it's actually running at 75? I didn't get that from reading about
Reforce and other descriptions about the "XP Refresh Problem" - instead
descriptions of the problem reference XP shifting one down to, for example,
60 hertz in certain games. They don't describe any problem when games are
not running.

 

[JAD]

it would be 60 no matter what right at boot is when the 60 is enforced by XP.....
Your saying that your OSD of the monitor says 75hz when XP says 100, hmmmm who do you trust?your eyes i would guess.
is the monitor able to be adjusted from the OSD AFA hz?

 

[Don Enderton]

JAD, I'm not sure what you mean by "AFA" but I cannot adjust or direct the
monitor what refresh rate to use, by means of the monitor's own controls.
It reports its current refresh rate (as well as the horizontal frequency),
but the only way to modify the refresh rate is to change the Display
Properties settings in XP.

If I lower the rate in XP to 60, for example, then the monitor correctly and
faithfully reports it is running at 60 (this is on the desktop, not running
a game). If I put it back to 75, the monitor says yes, it's at 75. If I
set it to 100, than apply, the monitor goes blank for an instant, then the
picture comes back, and the monitor reports 75, not 100.

In any of the above examples, if I run a game "3D Pinball" in a window, the
monitor continues to report 75. If I switch the game to full screen, the
monitor reports 60 (that's OK with me, not a problem). Switch back to
window, 75 again. But never 100, which is what I am looking for (when not
running a game and not using OpenGL or Direct3d).

I hope this clarifies the problem I am describing, and distinguishes it from
the usual "XP refresh rate bug" which as I understand it is a concern only
when running certain games. My concern extends to, or mainly is, when I am
NOT running games.

I'm not using the additional software available from ATI, only the ATI
drivers (although the ATI installation routine with those drivers does, as
described by ATI, run some tests and do some configuration not visible to
me). Should I have installed that additional stuff, which probably would
have put an additional icon in my control panel and something in my system
tray? I didn't install it because I didn't think I'd need to tweak anything
or use any of the extra bells and whistles.

-- Don

it would be 60 no matter what right at boot is when the 60 is enforced by XP.....
Your saying that your OSD of the monitor says 75hz when XP says 100, hmmmm

who do you trust?your eyes i would guess.

 

[JAD]

AFA = as far as can your monitor support your screen size + color depth @ 100hz?

 

[Don Enderton]

Yes, if you look higher up the string you'll see that I wrote that it has
supported 100 hertz with two other prior cards (both much older, with less
memory and speed, than the 9200).

I just noticed another peculiarity: Although the ATI box shows 640 x 480 as
one of the supported resolutions, that's not even an option in Settings in
Display Properties! I wonder if my grandchildren's games will even run
(have not tried).

Is it normal for the Radeon 9200, or its drivers, together with XP SP1 Home,
not to offer 640 x 480 any more?

The ATI driver is version 6.14.10.6378, the most recent offered by ATI for
download for this card. However, the readme with the drivers lists the 9000
and others, doesn't even mention the 9200.

 

[Daniel Tonks]

Yes, if you look higher up the string you'll see that I wrote that it has
supported 100 hertz with two other prior cards (both much older, with less
memory and speed, than the 9200).

I just noticed another peculiarity: Although the ATI box shows 640 x 480 as
one of the supported resolutions, that's not even an option in Settings in
Display Properties! I wonder if my grandchildren's games will even run
(have not tried).

Is it normal for the Radeon 9200, or its drivers, together with XP SP1 Home,
not to offer 640 x 480 any more?

The ATI driver is version 6.14.10.6378, the most recent offered by ATI for
download for this card. However, the readme with the drivers lists the 9000
and others, doesn't even mention the 9200.

Look, have you tried the program yet? It'll fix what you're seeing. XP has a
problem where the video drivers will max out at a "safe" refresh rate of
75Hz no matter what you tell it to run at (or what it thinks its running
at). I believe it's a problem with the driver obtaining incorrect DDC
information from the monitor (or no DDC information).

There's supposedly a registry setting that some folks change to tell the
driver to ignore DDC, but in my case that did absolutely nothing. I went
through the same thing well over a year ago. Just download Reforce and try
it on one resolution rate! It has a "restore" function if you think it
didn't work. This is also a permanent fix, you only have to run it once and
it does nothing to your registry or video drivers.

This is NOT the problem where DirectX games will only run at 60Hz, but
Reforce will solve that too. Also, XP officially does not support 640x480
except in games, no matter what your video card is (although I believe
there's a way to work around that if you really want it).

- Daniel

 

[JAD]

Also, XP officially does not support 640x480
except in games, no matter what your video card is

Thats a new one on me.....

 

[Daniel Tonks]

Also, XP officially does not support 640x480
except in games, no matter what your video card is

Thats a new one on me.....

Actually it's pretty easy to work around, but see Microsoft's site on the
matter (and the solution):

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;286906

"640 X 480 resolution and 256 colors are not supported display settings for
Windows XP."

- Daniel

 

[Don Enderton]

Thanks for the MS link, Daniel, just what I needed to see.

-- Don

 

[Don Enderton]

Daniel, no, I still haven't tried Reforce, but I will eventually, I'm pretty
sure! It's just that I haven't read elsewhere about the 75Hz barrier, only
the 60Hz, including in the description of the software at its own download
site. I'm cautious about installing unfamiliar software.

Is there a Reforce readme file available after download, but before
commencing installation?

My Trinitron monitor is good, but old (about 5 years or more), so I wouldn't
be surprised if it's not giving DDC information. [I confess I don't know
what DDC information is.] But XP does "know" which refresh rates my monitor
can handle - they are listed in Display Properties.

If Reforce does nothing to the registry, how can it work? I assume it has
to run every time Windows starts?

I'm going to temporarily reinstall my old GeForce4 ti4200 noisy fan card to
verify that it is stuck at 75Hz as well (if it was, I hadn't noticed that
before). If it is, then I'll be fully convinced this has nothing to do with
the new ATI 5200.

-- Don

 

[Daniel Tonks]

Daniel, no, I still haven't tried Reforce, but I will eventually, I'm pretty
sure! It's just that I haven't read elsewhere about the 75Hz barrier, only
the 60Hz, including in the description of the software at its own download
site. I'm cautious about installing unfamiliar software.

Is there a Reforce readme file available after download, but before
commencing installation?

It's just a zip file with the program and instructions. There's no
installation process (since it only runs once).

My Trinitron monitor is good, but old (about 5 years or more), so I wouldn't
be surprised if it's not giving DDC information. [I confess I don't know
what DDC information is.] But XP does "know" which refresh rates my monitor
can handle - they are listed in Display Properties.

DDC - the monitor tells the computer what resolutions and refresh rates it
does. I have a current monitor - GDM-FW900 24" - but am running it via BNC
plugs so DDC information is not passed through.

If Reforce does nothing to the registry, how can it work? I assume it has
to run every time Windows starts?

I sort of explained what it did earlier... basically it modifies your
monitor's profile, which will stay that way until you re-install your
monitor. Make sure you have the correct driver installed for your monitor
under Device Manager - lots are built-in or you can download one close to
your monitor's capabilities off of Sony's site.

http://www.ita.sel.sony.com/support/displays/

I'm going to temporarily reinstall my old GeForce4 ti4200 noisy fan card to
verify that it is stuck at 75Hz as well (if it was, I hadn't noticed that
before). If it is, then I'll be fully convinced this has nothing to do with
the new ATI 5200.

Note that this generally IS driver specific (it happens on both GeForce and
ATI systems, but not all systems) and is NOT a hardware problem.

- Daniel

 

[Thomas A. Horsley]

Look, have you tried the program yet? It'll fix what you're seeing.

Well, I just tried the program on my XP system with a 9200, and no
matter what I try to set using either the program or the display properties,
the monitor always and forever reports that it is running at 60HZ.
--email: (e-mail address removed) icbm: Delray Beach, FL |
<URL:http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley> Free Software and Politics <<==+