Asus Mobo P6X58D-E, backing up and configure SATA as IDE

[Sam]

I just got a brand new build with Windows 7 Pro. The first thing I
noticed is that the Asus BIOS screen shows no hard drives detected, yet
left alone everything boots up just fine.

I wanted to backup my HD using Acronis 11 Backup S/W from USB dongle.
Unfortunately, Acronis doesnt detect the SATA drive, just my USB IOMEGA
drive.

As I am old school, what is this "Configure SATA as IDE, RAID, and AHCI?

How do I get Acronis to detect the HD? Are the BIOS settings wrong?

Thanks

 

[Paul]

I just got a brand new build with Windows 7 Pro. The first thing I
noticed is that the Asus BIOS screen shows no hard drives detected, yet
left alone everything boots up just fine.

I wanted to backup my HD using Acronis 11 Backup S/W from USB dongle.
Unfortunately, Acronis doesnt detect the SATA drive, just my USB IOMEGA
drive.

As I am old school, what is this "Configure SATA as IDE, RAID, and AHCI?

How do I get Acronis to detect the HD? Are the BIOS settings wrong?

Thanks

Looking at the specs listed in the manual -

ICH10R Southbridge SATA - 6 ports
Marvell 88SE9128 SATA 6Gb/sec - 2 ports

First, check where the drive is plugged in.

My guess is, you've plugged into one of the Marvell ports,
rather than the Intel Southbridge. Try an Intel port instead.

*******

Actually, you have more than the options you list.

There is "SATA Configuration" [ Compatible, Enhanced ]

Compatible, runs hard drives as if they were plugged into
two IDE ribbon cables. In other words, the OS thinks the
SATA drives are IDE ribbon cable drives. Compatible mode
should support up to four drives (just like a motherboard with
two ribbon cables would be able to), and uses IRQ14 and IRQ15.
Such an operating mode, would work out of the box with Win98.
Who knows, it might even work with DOS (which might help with
any utilities that are DOS-like).

"Enhanced" maps the drive controllers into the PCI space.
Depending on the OS service pack level, you may need
a driver to get this to work. But you also get all six
SATA ports supported and operating in this mode. (You
might see driver files like atapi.sys, pciide.sys,
pciidex.sys - that is what my Intel Southbridge is using
right now, and I think those drivers were part of WinXP
SP3.)

Enhanced-IDE would have the controllers sitting in the PCI
space, with no special properties. Hot-plug doesn't work,
and there would be no native command queuing. Not a big deal
really.

Enhanced-AHCI does a few things. It makes transition to Intel
RAID possible later. It supports hot-plug, so you can plug in
a hard drive data cable while the computer is running. (Some
hot-swap trays would work with this as well.) It supports
NCQ or native command queuing. On a server system, where the
queue of commands can build due to multiple tasks issuing
disk commands, NCQ makes it possible to answer the commands
in a different order than they were issued. Sort of like disconnect
and reselect on SCSI. NCQ is not necessarily a win for a desktop
user though, but if the computer was functioning as a server, it
might help. If NCQ is used for a desktop user, the overhead may be
larger than without it.

Enhanced-RAID supports RAID operation with the Intel SATA ports.
For example, four drives in RAID 5, have one drive allocated for
parity information, making it possible to trash one disk, and yet
be able to continue using the array. Parity is distributed
over the four drives, such that one drive can be removed, and
the missing drive's data can be recomputed using XOR operations.

*******

The manual is a bit fuzzy about what the Marvell supports. On
the one hand, the manual claims pressing control-M while in the
BIOS, brings up a Marvell RAID configuration screen, and yet that
screen is not documented. The text description for the Marvell,
seems to suggest is supports IDE and AHCI.

In any case, when the BIOS starts up, there should be a "clear screen"
operation, followed by some mention of Marvell printed on the screen,
and any drives connected to the Marvell, should be displayed at that
moment in time. So there is detection info, but it shows on a
"transient screen" that disappears pretty quick.

If the control-M thing really worked, you'd have a RAID setup screen
to look at, and in such a screen, the detected drives should also be
shown. But at this point, I find the manual confusing about whether
there really is a RAID screen for the Marvell chip or not.

In any case, if you're on a Marvell SATA port, and want to try
something else, try moving the drive to an Intel port. And then
you should see the drive detected, in one of the BIOS setup pages.

Any third party tools, are going to have the most luck with
things like Southbridge ports (especially if they're not
in RAID mode). For chips like the Marvell, they're going to
need a driver from somewhere, unless the third party tool can
use Extended INT 0x13 calls to do what is necessary. Perhaps that
is why Acronis can't see the drive on your Marvell port ?

Paul

 

[Sam]

Paul wrote:

: Looking at the specs listed in the manual -
:
: ICH10R Southbridge SATA - 6 ports
: Marvell 88SE9128 SATA 6Gb/sec - 2 ports
:
: First, check where the drive is plugged in.
:
: My guess is, you've plugged into one of the Marvell ports,
: rather than the Intel Southbridge. Try an Intel port instead.

ThanksPaul!

I download the latest version of Acronis and I ran the rescue disk
from the CD. Acronis was able to detect the hard drive. My WD does
use SATA 6 GB and you're guess is spot-on!
However, it is a bit disconcerting to see during boot that there is no
hard drive detected.

: *******
:
: Actually, you have more than the options you list.
:
: There is "SATA Configuration" [ Compatible, Enhanced ]
:
: Compatible, runs hard drives as if they were plugged into
: two IDE ribbon cables. In other words, the OS thinks the
: SATA drives are IDE ribbon cable drives. Compatible mode
: should support up to four drives (just like a motherboard with
: two ribbon cables would be able to), and uses IRQ14 and IRQ15.
: Such an operating mode, would work out of the box with Win98.
: Who knows, it might even work with DOS (which might help with
: any utilities that are DOS-like).

Would there be any performance degradation issues in this emulation
mode?

: "Enhanced" maps the drive controllers into the PCI space.
: Depending on the OS service pack level, you may need
: a driver to get this to work. But you also get all six
: SATA ports supported and operating in this mode. (You
: might see driver files like atapi.sys, pciide.sys,
: pciidex.sys - that is what my Intel Southbridge is using
: right now, and I think those drivers were part of WinXP
: SP3.)

: Enhanced-IDE would have the controllers sitting in the PCI
: space, with no special properties. Hot-plug doesn't work,
: and there would be no native command queuing. Not a big deal
: really.

My mobo doesn't support "Enhanced" IDE. I am looking at page 3-10.
Unless IDE is actually Enhanced" IDE
:
: Enhanced-AHCI does a few things. It makes transition to Intel
: RAID possible later. It supports hot-plug, so you can plug in
: a hard drive data cable while the computer is running. (Some
: hot-swap trays would work with this as well.) It supports
: NCQ or native command queuing. On a server system, where the
: queue of commands can build due to multiple tasks issuing
: disk commands, NCQ makes it possible to answer the commands
: in a different order than they were issued. Sort of like disconnect
: and reselect on SCSI. NCQ is not necessarily a win for a desktop
: user though, but if the computer was functioning as a server, it
: might help. If NCQ is used for a desktop user, the overhead may be
: larger than without it.

Ditto here too. I am looking at page 3-10
:
: Enhanced-RAID supports RAID operation with the Intel SATA ports.
: For example, four drives in RAID 5, have one drive allocated for
: parity information, making it possible to trash one disk, and yet
: be able to continue using the array. Parity is distributed
: over the four drives, such that one drive can be removed, and
: the missing drive's data can be recomputed using XOR operations.
:
: *******
:
: The manual is a bit fuzzy about what the Marvell supports. On
: the one hand, the manual claims pressing control-M while in the
: BIOS, brings up a Marvell RAID configuration screen, and yet that
: screen is not documented. The text description for the Marvell,
: seems to suggest is supports IDE and AHCI.
:
: In any case, when the BIOS starts up, there should be a "clear
screen"
: operation, followed by some mention of Marvell printed on the
screen,
: and any drives connected to the Marvell, should be displayed at that
: moment in time. So there is detection info, but it shows on a
: "transient screen" that disappears pretty quick.

The BIOS boot is a real nuisance. It boots automatically to this
"Express Gate Splash Screen". I'll be turning it off as I can see no
use. The manual indicates that EG doesn't support devices in SATA 6
mode, yet the mobo has controllers that run in SATA 6.
:
: If the control-M thing really worked, you'd have a RAID setup screen
: to look at, and in such a screen, the detected drives should also be
: shown. But at this point, I find the manual confusing about whether
: there really is a RAID screen for the Marvell chip or not.
:
Where in the manual did u see the control M option?

: In any case, if you're on a Marvell SATA port, and want to try
: something else, try moving the drive to an Intel port. And then
: you should see the drive detected, in one of the BIOS setup pages.
:
: Any third party tools, are going to have the most luck with
: things like Southbridge ports (especially if they're not
: in RAID mode). For chips like the Marvell, they're going to
: need a driver from somewhere, unless the third party tool can
: use Extended INT 0x13 calls to do what is necessary. Perhaps that
: is why Acronis can't see the drive on your Marvell port ?

It seems to be the case as version 2010 detects the SATA.

 

[Paul]

Paul wrote:

: Looking at the specs listed in the manual -
:
: ICH10R Southbridge SATA - 6 ports
: Marvell 88SE9128 SATA 6Gb/sec - 2 ports
:
: First, check where the drive is plugged in.
:
: My guess is, you've plugged into one of the Marvell ports,
: rather than the Intel Southbridge. Try an Intel port instead.

ThanksPaul!

I download the latest version of Acronis and I ran the rescue disk
from the CD. Acronis was able to detect the hard drive. My WD does
use SATA 6 GB and you're guess is spot-on!
However, it is a bit disconcerting to see during boot that there is no
hard drive detected.

: *******
:
: Actually, you have more than the options you list.
:
: There is "SATA Configuration" [ Compatible, Enhanced ]
:
: Compatible, runs hard drives as if they were plugged into
: two IDE ribbon cables. In other words, the OS thinks the
: SATA drives are IDE ribbon cable drives. Compatible mode
: should support up to four drives (just like a motherboard with
: two ribbon cables would be able to), and uses IRQ14 and IRQ15.
: Such an operating mode, would work out of the box with Win98.
: Who knows, it might even work with DOS (which might help with
: any utilities that are DOS-like).

Would there be any performance degradation issues in this emulation
mode?

Not that I know of.

: "Enhanced" maps the drive controllers into the PCI space.
: Depending on the OS service pack level, you may need
: a driver to get this to work. But you also get all six
: SATA ports supported and operating in this mode. (You
: might see driver files like atapi.sys, pciide.sys,
: pciidex.sys - that is what my Intel Southbridge is using
: right now, and I think those drivers were part of WinXP
: SP3.)

: Enhanced-IDE would have the controllers sitting in the PCI
: space, with no special properties. Hot-plug doesn't work,
: and there would be no native command queuing. Not a big deal
: really.

My mobo doesn't support "Enhanced" IDE. I am looking at page 3-10.
Unless IDE is actually Enhanced" IDE

"Sata Configuration" [ Compatible ]

"Sata Configuration" [ Enhanced ]
Configure SATA as [ IDE ]
Configure SATA as [ RAID ]
Configure SATA as [ AHCI ]

There should be a total of four ways to set things up. Compatible
is very similar to Enhanced-IDE, in terms of the feature set.
Remember that the purpose of Compatible, is to make it possible
to use OSes like Windows 98, so there won't be any fancy AHCI or
RAID involved. The only detail with Compatible, is deciding which
four SATA ports will be supported by that mode. Motherboards
back in those days, used IRQ14 and IRQ15, used two ribbon cables,
and supported up to four hard drives. And Compatible mode is
intended to do the same thing as those old motherboards.

: If the control-M thing really worked, you'd have a RAID setup screen
: to look at, and in such a screen, the detected drives should also be
: shown. But at this point, I find the manual confusing about whether
: there really is a RAID screen for the Marvell chip or not.
:
Where in the manual did u see the control M option?

Section 2.8.3 Internal Connectors
2. Marvell Serial ATA 6Gb/s connectors

: In any case, if you're on a Marvell SATA port, and want to try
: something else, try moving the drive to an Intel port. And then
: you should see the drive detected, in one of the BIOS setup pages.
:
: Any third party tools, are going to have the most luck with
: things like Southbridge ports (especially if they're not
: in RAID mode). For chips like the Marvell, they're going to
: need a driver from somewhere, unless the third party tool can
: use Extended INT 0x13 calls to do what is necessary. Perhaps that
: is why Acronis can't see the drive on your Marvell port ?

It seems to be the case as version 2010 detects the SATA.

Paul

 

[Sjouke Burry]

I just got a brand new build with Windows 7 Pro. The first thing I
noticed is that the Asus BIOS screen shows no hard drives detected, yet
left alone everything boots up just fine.

I wanted to backup my HD using Acronis 11 Backup S/W from USB dongle.
Unfortunately, Acronis doesnt detect the SATA drive, just my USB IOMEGA
drive.

As I am old school, what is this "Configure SATA as IDE, RAID, and AHCI?

How do I get Acronis to detect the HD? Are the BIOS settings wrong?

Thanks

By configuring as ide.

 

[Sam]

: : > How do I get Acronis to detect the HD? Are the BIOS settings
wrong?
: >
: By configuring as ide.

That was the initial setting, set to IDE.

 

[Sam]

:
: There should be a total of four ways to set things up. Compatible
: is very similar to Enhanced-IDE, in terms of the feature set.
: Remember that the purpose of Compatible, is to make it possible
: to use OSes like Windows 98, so there won't be any fancy AHCI or
: RAID involved. The only detail with Compatible, is deciding which
: four SATA ports will be supported by that mode. Motherboards
: back in those days, used IRQ14 and IRQ15, used two ribbon cables,
: and supported up to four hard drives. And Compatible mode is
: intended to do the same thing as those old motherboards.

What configuration would you suggest since I am using a SATA 6 GB
drive? Also, I noticed the PC Builder didnt use an SATA 6 cable and
had the HD plugged into the SATA 2 port. I changed this to SATA 6 GBs
port and connected a SATA 6 cable.

 

[Paul]

:
: There should be a total of four ways to set things up. Compatible
: is very similar to Enhanced-IDE, in terms of the feature set.
: Remember that the purpose of Compatible, is to make it possible
: to use OSes like Windows 98, so there won't be any fancy AHCI or
: RAID involved. The only detail with Compatible, is deciding which
: four SATA ports will be supported by that mode. Motherboards
: back in those days, used IRQ14 and IRQ15, used two ribbon cables,
: and supported up to four hard drives. And Compatible mode is
: intended to do the same thing as those old motherboards.

What configuration would you suggest since I am using a SATA 6 GB
drive? Also, I noticed the PC Builder didnt use an SATA 6 cable and
had the HD plugged into the SATA 2 port. I changed this to SATA 6 GBs
port and connected a SATA 6 cable.

You would use the SATA interface, which works with everything
you do. If Acronis won't detect your WD SATA III drive on your add-on
SATA III port, then that doesn't sound like a very practical
way of using the drive. Perhaps the SATA II ports are the right
answer in that case.

In terms of drive performance, there are three issues to consider:

1) Burst to cache. A SATA 6gbit/sec interface could transfer
user data at a theoretical max of 600MB/sec. The hard drive
has a relatively small cache memory on it (32MB ?). The main
advantage of 6gbit/sec interconnect, is for data bursts which
fit entirely in the memory cache chip. This is most visible
and measurable with synthetic benchmarks.

2) Sustained transfer rate. The drive is limited by the rate that
the head writes data to the platter. A typical 7200RPM drive
might manage 125MB/sec. Thus, the 600MB/sec cabling does nothing
to help you there. A 300MB/sec cable works just as well, to
support the 125MB/sec sustained (head-limited) transfer rate.
If you're transferring a DVD-9 movie from one hard drive to the
other hard drive, the disk drive heads limit the transfer rate
to 125MB/sec.

3) Seek time. It takes time to move the head assembly from one track
to another. If you're accessing 10000 small files at random locations,
most of the time is spent moving the heads around. The time spent
using the cable to transfer the files, is almost zero. It doesn't
really matter whether the interface is SATA I, II, or III, as
seeking is really, really, slow. If you benchmark the transfer
time for 10000 small files, the resulting MB/sec value will look
pathetic to you. And seek time is to blame for this.

So this discussion about fancy cabling, is only relevant to (1). In
real world circumstances, it will be hard or impossible, to detect the
difference between using 3Gbit/sec or 6Gbit/sec cabling and interfaces.
While certain benchmarks may make you feel pretty happy, in actual
usage it might not be nearly as different or impressive. On my current
computer, with its Core2 processor, most of what I do is slow slow slow
because of hard drives.

If, on the other hand, you use a Flash SSD drive on the computer,
then it is possible the fancy 6gbit/sec interface is worth while to use.
But for your 7200 RPM hard drive, it really doesn't matter what SATA
interface you use.

This is an example of a SATA III SSD. Notice one reviewer's comment,
that writing is still slow, at 135MB/sec. But the seek time is close
to zero, which makes a big difference to performance. You can read
10000 random files, and the time interval between each read operation,
is less than 100 microseconds. Which is much better than any hard drive.
Devices like this don't make everything seem fast, but they help.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148348

The larger version of that product, is twice as expensive, but may
have better write performance. If you read the customer reviews,
face it, these SSDs are toys. Your hard drive is much more
reliable and dependable, and doesn't need "tuning" or "polishing".
With a hard drive, you just use it (assuming you didn't get
one of the annoying "Advanced format" 4Kbyte sector hard drives).
With hard drives, as long as the shipping method doesn't damage
them, they're quite good on dependability. I haven't had a failure
in some time. I think my last failure was a Maxtor 40GB. But
if you have money to spend, you can have a lot of fun playing
with an SSD. Just make sure you have backups of the SSD.

Paul