Are there TWO Desktops?

[Terry Pinnell]

I've been trying to figure out why I cannot get my XP Pro desktop
icons into alphabetic order. And I've come to realise that it's
because there are apparently *two* 'Desktops':

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Desktop
C:\Documents and Settings\Terry\Desktop

These seem to get 'merged' by XP, with no way I can see to identify
each one separately. If I could, then presumably I could move all the
stuff from the 'Terry Desktop' to the 'All Users Desktop' and
presumably then my icons would stay in proper sequence.

Can anyone help me to achieve this please?

 

[Terry Pinnell]

I've been trying to figure out why I cannot get my XP Pro desktop
icons into alphabetic order. And I've come to realise that it's
because there are apparently *two* 'Desktops':

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Desktop
C:\Documents and Settings\Terry\Desktop

These seem to get 'merged' by XP, with no way I can see to identify
each one separately. If I could, then presumably I could move all the
stuff from the 'Terry Desktop' to the 'All Users Desktop' and
presumably then my icons would stay in proper sequence.

Can anyone help me to achieve this please?

OK, sorted this myself a little later thanks.

If anyone else ends up here with a similar query, although you cannot
open each Desktop separately you can move entries between them by
first opening their respective containers, in my case:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users
and
C:\Documents and Settings\Terry

 

[Big_Al]

OK, sorted this myself a little later thanks.

If anyone else ends up here with a similar query, although you cannot
open each Desktop separately you can move entries between them by
first opening their respective containers, in my case:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users
and
C:\Documents and Settings\Terry

You got it!. The All Users is for those programs that are installed
globally. Remember this XP is a multi user system, you can have 20
logins. And then of course those programs installed for your use only
are under Terry.

I personally move them all to my user not 'All Users'. But if you are
the only person, there is no benefit one way or another. The only
problem is permissions, now that you moved a program to all users, and
IF you ran another user who has no permission to run one of those
programs you made available to them.

I move mine on my single user system so that a backup of the "menu"
folder backs up all the shortcuts. Its more of a record of what was
installed than anything else.

 

[Leonard Grey]

Right-click on the desktop > Arrange icons by > Name

 

[Twayne]

I've been trying to figure out why I cannot get my XP Pro desktop

icons into alphabetic order. And I've come to realise that it's
because there are apparently *two* 'Desktops':

C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Desktop
C:\Documents and Settings\Terry\Desktop

These seem to get 'merged' by XP, with no way I can see to identify
each one separately. If I could, then presumably I could move all the
stuff from the 'Terry Desktop' to the 'All Users Desktop' and
presumably then my icons would stay in proper sequence.

Can anyone help me to achieve this please?

Big Al had a good response for you. I'd just like to add that,
"alphabetical", though it works, still may not appear to be alphabetical
to you. My Computer for example gets special position treatment along
with a couple others, plus what you see in the text may not be what it's
alphabetizing on.
Personally, rather than alphabetic, I like to group my icons by
function anway. Editors all near each other, graphics near each other,
Microsoft progs near each other, etc.. Then I turn on the Desktop
Toolbar on the TaskBar, move it up next to the System Tray, and turn off
the screen icon display. I prefer the tree display over the haphazard
mess of icon pictures but ymmv.
I just prefer the tree view to the screen full of icons. Plus it's
always instantly available without moving/hiding/closing windows.


HTH

Twayne

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Big Al had a good response for you. I'd just like to add that,
"alphabetical", though it works, still may not appear to be alphabetical
to you. My Computer for example gets special position treatment along
with a couple others, plus what you see in the text may not be what it's
alphabetizing on.
Personally, rather than alphabetic, I like to group my icons by
function anway. Editors all near each other, graphics near each other,
Microsoft progs near each other, etc.. Then I turn on the Desktop
Toolbar on the TaskBar, move it up next to the System Tray, and turn off
the screen icon display. I prefer the tree display over the haphazard
mess of icon pictures but ymmv.
I just prefer the tree view to the screen full of icons. Plus it's
always instantly available without moving/hiding/closing windows.


HTH

Twayne

Thanks both!

Hey, that Desktop Toolbar is neat. Embarrassed to say that in all the
many years I've been running Windows I've never used that before. On
this 24" wide screen (1920 x 1200) there's a decent amount of space,
so that couple of extra cm over by the systray is no big sacrifice.
And the faster access is a real plus.

Can you amplify on how to "turn off the screen icon display" please?
Not sure I'd want to do that anyway, as I rarely have more than 3
columns of icons on the left (currently there are 35 icons displayed),
so there's plenty of space if I want to use it for desktop pictures or
whatever.

 

[Swifty]

Personally, rather than alphabetic, I like to group my icons by
function anway. Editors all near each other, graphics near each other,
Microsoft progs near each other, etc.. Then I turn on the Desktop
Toolbar on the TaskBar, move it up next to the System Tray, and turn off
the screen icon display.

I go one step further, and create a "C:\Stuff" folder then use "New
Toolbar" to place *that* in my startbar, right by the system tray.

I now have absolute control over the menus in there, creating folders
for each distinct group of applications, and a complete subfolder tree
where necessary.

So, I click the >> next to "Stuff", then "Documentation" then "SONY"
then "RDR-HXD870" then "Users Guide" and I end up in the PDF for my PVR.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

I go one step further, and create a "C:\Stuff" folder then use "New
Toolbar" to place *that* in my startbar, right by the system tray.

I now have absolute control over the menus in there, creating folders
for each distinct group of applications, and a complete subfolder tree
where necessary.

So, I click the >> next to "Stuff", then "Documentation" then "SONY"
then "RDR-HXD870" then "Users Guide" and I end up in the PDF for my PVR.

That is clever! I'm going to implement it forthwith, if not sooner.

I've been doing essentially the same for 15 years or so, using a power
utility called Stiletto (now obsolete, replaced by PowerPro, but I
never managed the transition). That has many facilities and uses
normally hidden pop-up menus which let me navigate quickly to my
frequently-used stuff. The top menu appears when I move my mouse to a
specified place (top middle of screen in my case). Stiletto does other
things too (like macros) but I'm guessing 75% of my entries are
straightforward shortcuts. These might be more elegantly achieved with
your approach. Taking the burden off Stiletto, albeit at the cost of a
little taskbar space.

 

[Twayne]

Thanks both!

Hey, that Desktop Toolbar is neat. Embarrassed to say that in all the
many years I've been running Windows I've never used that before. On
this 24" wide screen (1920 x 1200) there's a decent amount of space,
so that couple of extra cm over by the systray is no big sacrifice.
And the faster access is a real plus.

Can you amplify on how to "turn off the screen icon display" please?
Not sure I'd want to do that anyway, as I rarely have more than 3
columns of icons on the left (currently there are 35 icons displayed),
so there's plenty of space if I want to use it for desktop pictures or
whatever.

Sure; right click any unoccupied area of the desktop, highlight the
Arrange Icons By line, and remove the tick mark at "Show Desktop
icons". Put the tick mark back to redisplay the desktop icons.
Unless I'm installing programs or doing certain system ops, I never
look at the desktop icons anymore so I have them turned off. I actually
got to this point because I wanted text entries, not icons, for program
IDs and I find the menu options gives me basically a text menu. It will
not save you any measurable boot time shortening or anything like that.
Most of my desktop when it's turned on is just folders and maybe a few
folders within a folder. You get folder flyouts, the whole magilla in
the Taskbar menu.
If you use separate filenames, the list gets too long for the screen
real quick so folders makes things a lot neater and smaller to display.
Note you can also create your own folders and drag them to the
Taskbar too, and put them next to the Desktop. Whatever you name the
folder is what the new menu will have for a title.

N O T E : It's easy to mix this up with right clicking on the Taskbar,
so you might want to make a note that it's right click on the DESKTOP,
not the Taskbar, for 6 months or so from now when you've forgotten
how<g>.

Cheers,

Twayne

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Sure; right click any unoccupied area of the desktop, highlight the
Arrange Icons By line, and remove the tick mark at "Show Desktop
icons". Put the tick mark back to redisplay the desktop icons.
Unless I'm installing programs or doing certain system ops, I never
look at the desktop icons anymore so I have them turned off. I actually
got to this point because I wanted text entries, not icons, for program
IDs and I find the menu options gives me basically a text menu. It will
not save you any measurable boot time shortening or anything like that.
Most of my desktop when it's turned on is just folders and maybe a few
folders within a folder. You get folder flyouts, the whole magilla in
the Taskbar menu.
If you use separate filenames, the list gets too long for the screen
real quick so folders makes things a lot neater and smaller to display.
Note you can also create your own folders and drag them to the
Taskbar too, and put them next to the Desktop. Whatever you name the
folder is what the new menu will have for a title.

N O T E : It's easy to mix this up with right clicking on the Taskbar,
so you might want to make a note that it's right click on the DESKTOP,
not the Taskbar, for 6 months or so from now when you've forgotten
how<g>.

Cheers,

Thanks, Twayne, much appreciated.

 

[Twayne]

Thanks, Twayne, much appreciated.

You're most welcome.

 

[Swifty]

Taking the burden off Stiletto, albeit at the cost of a
little taskbar space.

In that case, name your folder "S" rather than "Stuff". Or "T" for
"Terry" (my friend called his dog "Deefuh" on the same principle).
Or even "," - the narrowest legal folder name that I could find,
although it looked decidedly odd as a toolbar.

Thinking about what would look good, I decided to create a folder called
" " but got an inexplicable error message:

C:\>md " "
There are no more files.

Can anyone explain what the above error message is trying to tell me?
The end of creating files on my C: drive?

 

[SoCalCommie]

In that case, name your folder "S" rather than "Stuff". Or "T" for "Terry"
(my friend called his dog "Deefuh" on the same principle).
Or even "," - the narrowest legal folder name that I could find, although
it looked decidedly odd as a toolbar.

Thinking about what would look good, I decided to create a folder called "
" but got an inexplicable error message:

C:\>md " "
There are no more files.

Can anyone explain what the above error message is trying to tell me? The
end of creating files on my C: drive?

Try Alt + 255 on the numeric keypad.

 

[Terry Pinnell]

In that case, name your folder "S" rather than "Stuff". Or "T" for
"Terry" (my friend called his dog "Deefuh" on the same principle).
Or even "," - the narrowest legal folder name that I could find,
although it looked decidedly odd as a toolbar.

I've settled for ALL. Including the chevrons >> that's 1 cm of
horizontal taskbar space and about 0.03% of my screen area - a
bargain!

 

[Terry Pinnell]

I've settled for ALL. Including the chevrons >> that's 1 cm of
horizontal taskbar space and about 0.03% of my screen area - a
bargain!

I got my taskbar screwed up a couple of times just now through
unfamiliarity with using this new 'ALL' toolbar. Am I right that
intuitively d-clicking it doesn't open it (like d-clicking all its
subordinates), but instead expands it to fill the taskbar? (It was
then very easy for me to end up with two lines of taskbar, etc!) I
gather that to open ALL (to add new folders etc) I must r-click and
then choose 'Open'?

 

[Swifty]

I got my taskbar screwed up a couple of times just now through
unfamiliarity with using this new 'ALL' toolbar. Am I right that
intuitively d-clicking it doesn't open it (like d-clicking all its
subordinates), but instead expands it to fill the taskbar? (It was
then very easy for me to end up with two lines of taskbar, etc!) I
gather that to open ALL (to add new folders etc) I must r-click and
then choose 'Open'?

It would never occur to me to double click on something like that, and
after your experience, I'm never going to! Thanks for the warning.

It took me an age to get everything where I wanted it on my startbar.
Every time when I got things right, but for one item, everything
squirmed around whenever I moved that one item. It was like my (futile)
attempts at Rubik's cube.†

The two actions I use regularly are to single click the ">>" (Normal
usage) and right-click followed by "Open" to see the actual underlying
folder.

I'm quite averse to double-clicking anything in the startbar. I usually
complain when system tray icons require a double-click for their default
action (e.g. Pidgin).

† After about six months spent getting my Rubik cube back in shape, I
put it on my wall unit and vowed never again to touch it. Every time I
passed it, I shuddered. Then one day, I invited my sister around. While
I was in the kitchen cooking, I heard her say "What's this funny cube
thing?". I rushed in, but too late... scrambled again. That's when I
discovered how to dismantle them, in order to put them back in the right
order.

 

[Twayne]

I got my taskbar screwed up a couple of times just now through
unfamiliarity with using this new 'ALL' toolbar. Am I right that
intuitively d-clicking it doesn't open it (like d-clicking all its
subordinates), but instead expands it to fill the taskbar? (It was
then very easy for me to end up with two lines of taskbar, etc!) I
gather that to open ALL (to add new folders etc) I must r-click and
then choose 'Open'?

It can be a little confusing for the inxperienced when you start to add
more to it. Help has a little info on it, but basically you grab the
left side of each object on the TaskBar and drag it up or right, or
down, as you wish, until it's on the proper level and squished to a name
and chevron. Be sure to unlock the taskbar of course, to do these
things.
If it spread all the way across your TaskBar, it tried to expand
inside the TaskBar, like program icons do there; you can just grab the
left side of it and pull it right until all you have left if the name &
chevron.
It is a little perplexing at first when you start adding more to it.
Make the moves a step at a time and note how to return them to where
they were, especially if you start to play with dragging up or down. Up
& Down creates the most confusion for people it seems.
Some of the unexpected things that can happen to you:
-- You want all to occupy both lines but it's only on one. You moved
it up/down and shouldn't have.
-- The all expand across the TaskBar because you grabbed the wrong
handle
-- You disconnect Quick Launch and all of a sudden it's out on the
screen all by itself, or on a different screen edge than the TaskBar.
Harder to do, but easier to do by mistake<g>.

Also note: You do not have to put new folders on the TaskBar, though
I'd recommend that's the best place for them. They can also be attached
(docked) to some other edge of the screen and pop out when you bump that
edge. Most people don't get along with that though because they're used
to bumping the edgr of the screen which fires the flyouts when they
didn't mean to. It takes getting used to. A high acceleration on the
mouse makes that even more of a problem (faster you move the mouse,
farther cursor travels per inch, etc).

They can be very handy though. For instance, I have a set of system
tools across the top which pop down if I touch the top edge; drive
usage, pagefile use, ram use, things like that; on the left I have the
Microsoft Toolbar with 4 populated bars (folders) that can be chosen to
pop out. One is editors, another development, one for MS, the last one
my CADD stuff. This works best on a large screen where you don't
normally maximize the windows so they aren't close to the edges anyway.
It takes some patience to get used to though. On a 14, 15" screen I
don't think it'd work too well; it does ask for a large screen, probably
min 19", or two monitors.

That's probably a lot more than you wanted to know, but maybe it'll help
you with some decisions or even what not to do<g>.

Cheers,

Twayne

 

[Twayne]

Correct. It's a good idea to lock the taskbar when you're done working
on it, so you can't accidentally d-click or drage anything anywhere. To
lock it, right click any open area on the taskbar and click on "Lock
TaskBar". Opposite to unlock it for working on it.
d-clicking the Chevron though, won't make it do that. I'll simply
put the toolbar up then down very quickly<g>. The Chevron only wants to
be clicked once on my system, which is set to single-click activation.
So I seldom have to d-click anything.
And like I said, when you're done, lock the TaskBar; then it cannot
be changed by a mis-click or drag.

No. If the toolbar/folder is named ALL, you add to it by putting the
additioal objects (folders, files, etc.) into the ALL folder, not the
toolbar. The toolbar that resides on the TaskBar is just a window into
the folder; you can't add/delete entries from it; you have to go to the
actual folder.

Huh, it never occurred to me so I tried d-clicking a toolbar meny: Yes,
double clicking an open area does cause it to fill in as far left as it
can! Click the Chevon ">>" instead to make it fly out. I'm not sure I
understand the last question:

To add to the toolbar "all", just drag or paste into that folder.
You cannot drag or paste into the toolbar ALL part that resides on
the Taskbar. Drag or paste into the actual folder instead. I'm sure by
now you know the toolbar name is the folder name; that folder is where
you add things; not the toolbar itself. The toolbar "ALL" that you
added is simply a window into the folder and nothing more. So to add
"this" to the "ALL" toolbar, copy "this" and paste "this" into the
actual "ALL" folder on the drive, using Explorer or whatever method you
wish. It's no different than any other file/folder at that point.

Is this any help? If not and if you're not getting discouraged, feel
free to ask more questions. Especially since you just taught me about
d-click expanding everything to the left <G>!! I enjoy assisting folks.

Regards,

Twayne

 

[Swifty]

It is a little perplexing at first when you start adding more to it.
Make the moves a step at a time and note how to return them to where
they were, especially if you start to play with dragging up or down.

I'm really glad that I got into the habit of right clicking the
directory name and selecting "Open Folder", and then adding things in
the familiar explorer setting!

 

[Terry Pinnell]

It can be a little confusing for the inxperienced when you start to add
more to it. Help has a little info on it, but basically you grab the
left side of each object on the TaskBar and drag it up or right, or
down, as you wish, until it's on the proper level and squished to a name
and chevron. Be sure to unlock the taskbar of course, to do these
things.
If it spread all the way across your TaskBar, it tried to expand
inside the TaskBar, like program icons do there; you can just grab the
left side of it and pull it right until all you have left if the name &
chevron.
It is a little perplexing at first when you start adding more to it.
Make the moves a step at a time and note how to return them to where
they were, especially if you start to play with dragging up or down. Up
& Down creates the most confusion for people it seems.
Some of the unexpected things that can happen to you:
-- You want all to occupy both lines but it's only on one. You moved
it up/down and shouldn't have.
-- The all expand across the TaskBar because you grabbed the wrong
handle
-- You disconnect Quick Launch and all of a sudden it's out on the
screen all by itself, or on a different screen edge than the TaskBar.
Harder to do, but easier to do by mistake<g>.

Also note: You do not have to put new folders on the TaskBar, though
I'd recommend that's the best place for them. They can also be attached
(docked) to some other edge of the screen and pop out when you bump that
edge. Most people don't get along with that though because they're used
to bumping the edgr of the screen which fires the flyouts when they
didn't mean to. It takes getting used to. A high acceleration on the
mouse makes that even more of a problem (faster you move the mouse,
farther cursor travels per inch, etc).

They can be very handy though. For instance, I have a set of system
tools across the top which pop down if I touch the top edge; drive
usage, pagefile use, ram use, things like that; on the left I have the
Microsoft Toolbar with 4 populated bars (folders) that can be chosen to
pop out. One is editors, another development, one for MS, the last one
my CADD stuff. This works best on a large screen where you don't
normally maximize the windows so they aren't close to the edges anyway.
It takes some patience to get used to though. On a 14, 15" screen I
don't think it'd work too well; it does ask for a large screen, probably
min 19", or two monitors.

That's probably a lot more than you wanted to know, but maybe it'll help
you with some decisions or even what not to do<g>.

Cheers,

Twayne, Swifty:

Thanks both, grateful for those solid follow-ups.

For opening my ALL folder I just r-click 'ALL' and choose Open. Apart
from being marginally faster than opening it via Explorer, that will
help me get in the habit of using this ALL toolbar to the maximum!

Once ALL is open I can
- add top level subfolders (e.g. 'Movies')
- add sub-folders to those (e.g. 'Video Editors')
- add shortcuts to those (e.g. 'Movie Maker')

A d-click to open the individual contents of ALL seems intuitive, as
well as faster than R-click > Open. But I suppose there's a sound
reason why that doesn't apply to ALL itself.

Of course, I now have major duplication. I can access an XP folder or
file by several methods:
- Explorer
- Stiletto menus of various levels, which appear when I nudge the top
screen edge
- My new ALL toolbar
- File > Open from the native application

And for the time being at least I'm populating ALL with *program*
shortcuts too. So, for example, there are entries like
ALL > Movies > Movie SW > MovieMaker
ALL > Graphics > Graphics SW > IrfanView
as well as
ALL > Movies > Movie files > FRAPS output
ALL > Graphics > Photos > Holidays

Therefore I am of course duplicating the function of the Start menu.
That's what I've been doing for years with Stiletto and it seems to
give me faster access to the frequently-used stuff. But it does go
against the grain a bit to duplicate stuff.

I've now locked the taskbar, although I'm not yet sure whether I'll be
tolerant of any restrictions that will impose.

I've also added the Desktop toolbar, directly to the right of ALL,
both being to the left of my 17 tray icons. (I tried just including it
in ALL, but that gave me a permanently open Desktop folder, which
isn't as useful.) And for now at least I've cleared my desktop
entirely. If I get bored with its soothing uniform blue, I'll
probably fire up a neat little program I've enjoyed in the past called
AWC (Automatic Wallpaper Changer) from
http://awc.smurphy.co.uk/