Are the Vista users well informed? The BIOS issue

[Juan I. Cahis]

Dear friends:

Are the Vista users well informed? The BIOS issue.

I have been surprised that my Notebook's manufacturer (Sony Vaio) has
released a free BIOS update (dated 04/20/2006) but with two different
flavors: one for Vista and one for XP.

And that is very strange for me. During the release dates of previous
Microsoft Operating Systems (95 to 98, 98 to 98SE, 98SE to 2000, and
2000 to XP), was very common that a BIOS update was highly
recommended, but it was also a common fact that the new BIOS supported
all the previous versions of Microsoft Operating Systems. So, if
during the XP times, you kept your BIOS updated, you could run in your
machine any flavor of MsDos and MsWindows, from Windows 3.0 to Windows
XP.

But now, apparently and according to Sony, that is not true. You
should choose if you will run XP or Vista, a different BIOS means a
different basic PC architecture. And the consequences of this issue
are very important and very dangerous.

First of all, what happens if you, during a transition period of time,
want to have a "Dual Boot Machine", as it was possible to have between
98SE and 2000 or XP (or also with other OS, like Linux)? Which BIOS
will you choose to install in your machine, the one for XP or the one
for Vista? Will these Operating Systems work well and stable with the
opposite BIOS?

Second, what happens if you want to install Vista, previously having
installed the "Vista BIOS", and your installation process fails? Will
you be able to install the "XP BIOS" when your PC is in a "failed
Vista installation process state" in order to reinstall XP again?

Why Microsoft, or any of the gurus that write in the magazines related
to Personal Computers have never discussed this issue? Is Microsoft
really changing the internal PC architecture of the PC with Vista, in
an irreversible way, without the users knowledge?

I think that this is a major issue to discuss. Which is the official
position of other PC manufacturers regarding this issue? Any hint?


Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

 

[Tom Porterfield]

Dear friends:

Are the Vista users well informed? The BIOS issue.

I have been surprised that my Notebook's manufacturer (Sony Vaio) has
released a free BIOS update (dated 04/20/2006) but with two different
flavors: one for Vista and one for XP.
....

Why Microsoft, or any of the gurus that write in the magazines related
to Personal Computers have never discussed this issue? Is Microsoft
really changing the internal PC architecture of the PC with Vista, in
an irreversible way, without the users knowledge?

I think you need to get clarification from Sony on what, if any,
differences there are between the two BIOS downloads. If you reply with
the exact model of Sony Viao you have, someone may be able to help you
determine the difference. I can think of no reason that a BIOS update
that is compatible with Vista would not also be compatible with XP.
Most BIOS updates for Vista add support for features that only Vista can
take advantage of, but don't break anything if XP is the installed OS.
So either you are misunderstanding the differences between the different
downloads, or Sony needs to explain why they are offering them in this way.

 

[Juan I. Cahis]

Thanks Tom, it is a Vaio VGN-UX280P.

Of course, it is very difficult to get this kind of local support from
my Country, maybe you, or any other USA friend, could help me asking
this issue to Sony USA for me.

I think you need to get clarification from Sony on what, if any,
differences there are between the two BIOS downloads. If you reply with
the exact model of Sony Viao you have, someone may be able to help you
determine the difference. I can think of no reason that a BIOS update
that is compatible with Vista would not also be compatible with XP.
Most BIOS updates for Vista add support for features that only Vista can
take advantage of, but don't break anything if XP is the installed OS.
So either you are misunderstanding the differences between the different
downloads, or Sony needs to explain why they are offering them in this way.

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

 

[tomlives2000]

end of thread....
lol

Thanks Tom, it is a Vaio VGN-UX280P.

Of course, it is very difficult to get this kind of local support from
my Country, maybe you, or any other USA friend, could help me asking
this issue to Sony USA for me.

I think you need to get clarification from Sony on what, if any,
differences there are between the two BIOS downloads. If you reply with
the exact model of Sony Viao you have, someone may be able to help you
determine the difference. I can think of no reason that a BIOS update
that is compatible with Vista would not also be compatible with XP.
Most BIOS updates for Vista add support for features that only Vista can
take advantage of, but don't break anything if XP is the installed OS.
So either you are misunderstanding the differences between the different
downloads, or Sony needs to explain why they are offering them in this way.

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

 

[Mike Hall MVP]

Juan

The BIOS on the Sony page dated March 7, 2007 brings the BIOS up to a level
that includes features able to be used by the latest MS operating system..

The BIOS dated April 20, 2007 is an update that fixes problems incurred or
missed from the earlier update..

It is not a case of one BIOS for XP and another for Vista..

Thanks Tom, it is a Vaio VGN-UX280P.

Of course, it is very difficult to get this kind of local support from
my Country, maybe you, or any other USA friend, could help me asking
this issue to Sony USA for me.

I think you need to get clarification from Sony on what, if any,
differences there are between the two BIOS downloads. If you reply with
the exact model of Sony Viao you have, someone may be able to help you
determine the difference. I can think of no reason that a BIOS update
that is compatible with Vista would not also be compatible with XP.
Most BIOS updates for Vista add support for features that only Vista can
take advantage of, but don't break anything if XP is the installed OS.
So either you are misunderstanding the differences between the different
downloads, or Sony needs to explain why they are offering them in this way.

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Juan I. Cahis]

Yes, it is.

The file for XP is: PHBSYS-01107318-US.EXE
The file for Vista is: PHBSYS-01107319-US.EXE

which are different files (also with different names).

Juan

The BIOS on the Sony page dated March 7, 2007 brings the BIOS up to a level
that includes features able to be used by the latest MS operating system..

The BIOS dated April 20, 2007 is an update that fixes problems incurred or
missed from the earlier update..

It is not a case of one BIOS for XP and another for Vista..

Thanks Tom, it is a Vaio VGN-UX280P.

Of course, it is very difficult to get this kind of local support from
my Country, maybe you, or any other USA friend, could help me asking
this issue to Sony USA for me.




Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

 

[Mike Hall MVP]

Juan

I typed 'Vaio VGN-UX280P BIOS' into a search box and it gave me this Sony
website

http://esupport.sony.com/LA/perl/swu-download.pl?mdl=VGNUX280P&upd_id=2590&os_id=29#

... from which this information was gleaned

PHBSYS-01398201-US.EXE released 03/07/2007

This utility updates the BIOS to version R0062N2 and provides compatibility
with the Microsoft® Windows VistaT operating system.

PHBSYS-01107319-US.EXE released 04/20/2007

This utility updates the BIOS to version R0063N2 and improves the stability
of the system and the security function of the fingerprint sensor.

BIOS, while accommodating the latest OS, would work with all Windows OS
versions before it. In fact, the BIOS would work with ANY operating system
that is ported for the architecture, subject to the correct amount of
resources on the motherboard being available for use, eg RAM..





Yes, it is.

The file for XP is: PHBSYS-01107318-US.EXE
The file for Vista is: PHBSYS-01107319-US.EXE

which are different files (also with different names).

Juan

The BIOS on the Sony page dated March 7, 2007 brings the BIOS up to a level
that includes features able to be used by the latest MS operating system..

The BIOS dated April 20, 2007 is an update that fixes problems incurred or
missed from the earlier update..

It is not a case of one BIOS for XP and another for Vista..

Thanks Tom, it is a Vaio VGN-UX280P.

Of course, it is very difficult to get this kind of local support from
my Country, maybe you, or any other USA friend, could help me asking
this issue to Sony USA for me.




Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Mark Bourne]

I don't know if this is the case, but maybe these are just different
executables to run on the two OSs, but which both write exactly the same
BIOS image? I guess you'd have to ask Sony to be certain.

 

[PTravel]

Yes, it is.

The file for XP is: PHBSYS-01107318-US.EXE
The file for Vista is: PHBSYS-01107319-US.EXE

which are different files (also with different names).



As I understand it, Sony's machine-specific drivers check the BIOS to make
sure they're being installed for the correct operating system. This means
that, though you'll be able to install the OS, you won't be able to install
XP drivers for an XP machine with a Vista BIOS and vice versa. I looked
into this when I first got my new Vaio which came with Vista. I was
thinking about dumping Vista after the first week and putting on XP. As it
turns out, with this particular model it would have been impossible because
there is no XP BIOS for it.

Juan

The BIOS on the Sony page dated March 7, 2007 brings the BIOS up to a level
that includes features able to be used by the latest MS operating system..

The BIOS dated April 20, 2007 is an update that fixes problems incurred or
missed from the earlier update..

It is not a case of one BIOS for XP and another for Vista..

Thanks Tom, it is a Vaio VGN-UX280P.

Of course, it is very difficult to get this kind of local support from
my Country, maybe you, or any other USA friend, could help me asking
this issue to Sony USA for me.




Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

 

[Juan I. Cahis]

Sorry Mike, but I downloaded both files and I did a binary compare (fc
/b), and they are different files.

When you ask for updates, in the Vaio drivers support page, they ask
you first for the Operating System you are using or you plan to use.
Depending of your answer, if you go to the "BIOS" sub-menu, it allows
you to download only one file or the other, without any explanation
about why.

So, the issue is very confusing.

Juan

I typed 'Vaio VGN-UX280P BIOS' into a search box and it gave me this Sony
website

http://esupport.sony.com/LA/perl/swu-download.pl?mdl=VGNUX280P&upd_id=2590&os_id=29#

.. from which this information was gleaned

PHBSYS-01398201-US.EXE released 03/07/2007

This utility updates the BIOS to version R0062N2 and provides compatibility
with the Microsoft® Windows VistaT operating system.

PHBSYS-01107319-US.EXE released 04/20/2007

This utility updates the BIOS to version R0063N2 and improves the stability
of the system and the security function of the fingerprint sensor.

BIOS, while accommodating the latest OS, would work with all Windows OS
versions before it. In fact, the BIOS would work with ANY operating system
that is ported for the architecture, subject to the correct amount of
resources on the motherboard being available for use, eg RAM..





Yes, it is.

The file for XP is: PHBSYS-01107318-US.EXE
The file for Vista is: PHBSYS-01107319-US.EXE

which are different files (also with different names).


Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

 

[Juan I. Cahis]

I am suspecting of that, and I am very worried if this Sony policy
applies in this case, specially if it wasn't advertised before I
bought the machine. I don't want to be forced to install in my machine
only the Operating System that the hardware manufacturer wants.

Yes, it is.

The file for XP is: PHBSYS-01107318-US.EXE
The file for Vista is: PHBSYS-01107319-US.EXE

which are different files (also with different names).



As I understand it, Sony's machine-specific drivers check the BIOS to make
sure they're being installed for the correct operating system. This means
that, though you'll be able to install the OS, you won't be able to install
XP drivers for an XP machine with a Vista BIOS and vice versa. I looked
into this when I first got my new Vaio which came with Vista. I was
thinking about dumping Vista after the first week and putting on XP. Asit
turns out, with this particular model it would have been impossible because
there is no XP BIOS for it.



Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

 

[Mike Hall MVP]

Did Sony actually tell you that a machine with a Vista compatible BIOS will
no longer accept XP?

Yes, it is.

The file for XP is: PHBSYS-01107318-US.EXE
The file for Vista is: PHBSYS-01107319-US.EXE

which are different files (also with different names).



As I understand it, Sony's machine-specific drivers check the BIOS to make
sure they're being installed for the correct operating system. This means
that, though you'll be able to install the OS, you won't be able to
install XP drivers for an XP machine with a Vista BIOS and vice versa. I
looked into this when I first got my new Vaio which came with Vista. I
was thinking about dumping Vista after the first week and putting on XP.
As it turns out, with this particular model it would have been impossible
because there is no XP BIOS for it.



Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Juan I. Cahis]

Dear Mike, no, they didn't. They only said me that the machine was
Vista compatible, I bought it during last November.

Did Sony actually tell you that a machine with a Vista compatible BIOS will
no longer accept XP?

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

 

[Mike Hall MVP]

Juan

That question was for PT really..

It looks like Sony supply a the latest BIOS for whatever was pre-installed
on it from new..

BIOS is independent of the OS installed, but that is not to say that a BIOS
can't be upgraded to allow features that a new OS can make use of..

In this way, the Sony BIOS 'for Vista' will just add a feature that one
might only be found in Vista


Dear Mike, no, they didn't. They only said me that the machine was
Vista compatible, I bought it during last November.

Did Sony actually tell you that a machine with a Vista compatible BIOS will
no longer accept XP?

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Doris Day]

I am suspecting of that, and I am very worried if this Sony policy
applies in this case, specially if it wasn't advertised before I
bought the machine. I don't want to be forced to install in my machine
only the Operating System that the hardware manufacturer wants.

After Sony rootkitted all those audio CDs, it lost much credibility.
Microsoft with its even deeper DRM "enforcement" in Vista, is a partner
with Sony and the like. Both should be avoided as they both want to control
your computer and what you can do with it.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

 

[Tom Porterfield]

Thanks Tom, it is a Vaio VGN-UX280P.

Of course, it is very difficult to get this kind of local support from
my Country, maybe you, or any other USA friend, could help me asking
this issue to Sony USA for me.

I have now looked at the Sony site for this and agree it is confusing
and not enough information on the site to offer any clarification. The
files are clearly different and each upgrade the BIOS to a different
revision, though both indicate the changes in the update are identical.

What's interesting is that if you follow the steps at
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/support-info.pl?template_id=1&info_id=144#
that never mentions updating the BIOS. I would recommend you do apply
the BIOS upgrade if you plan on installing Vista, but I'm afraid it's
going to take a phone call to Sony to find the answer to the question as
to whether you would then have any problems installing XP.

 

[ptravel]

Did Sony actually tell you that a machine with a Vista compatible BIOS will
no longer accept XP?

Yes, they did. I was following up the fact that the machine didn't
come with restore disks. I got rather high in the support chain and
was told that, if I wanted drivers, I'd have to find them from the
manufacturers because Sony's XP drivers (for the identical laptop
configured for XP) check the BIOS and wouldn't load if it was
identified as a Vista machine.

 

[Mike Hall MVP]

Sony hasn't been on my list of favorite manufacturers for the longest time,
and it looks like that trend will continue..

Did Sony actually tell you that a machine with a Vista compatible BIOS
will
no longer accept XP?

Yes, they did. I was following up the fact that the machine didn't
come with restore disks. I got rather high in the support chain and
was told that, if I wanted drivers, I'd have to find them from the
manufacturers because Sony's XP drivers (for the identical laptop
configured for XP) check the BIOS and wouldn't load if it was
identified as a Vista machine.


--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

 

[Adam Albright]

Sony hasn't been on my list of favorite manufacturers for the longest time,
and it looks like that trend will continue..

If you only had a clue.

 

[Mike Hall MVP]

You have a problem with me not liking Sony products now?

If you only had a clue.

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/