Antec vs Zalman Power Supply

[beerspill]

I had no trouble with "those" bad caps, whatever "those" is referring to.

My last power supply was an Antec 350W SmartPower. I think it's the
22 amp at 12 volt version which apparently was an update to the
original. It still works just fine. Before that, I had an Antec 230
W supply. It still works just fine.

My current power supply is an Antec 380 TruePower. The whole
TruePower series is exceptionally well liked by hordes of users.

That's my experience/research.

Please cite some of your experience and research, as it was left out of
your message.

The problem with low-quality electrolytic capacitors has been well-know
for several years now and has affected products from many companies,
including IBM, Dell, and several Japanese manufacturers. If you
haven't experienced it, then you simply either don't have much
experience, or everything you buy contains Japanese brand caps, except
Nichicon HM and HN series. The problem was originally thought to be
isolated to a single source of chemicals, but apparently many of the
larger capacitor manufacturers from Taiwan still produce low qualtiy
products:


www.dfrsolutions.com/Articles/2004_Electrolyte_Hillman.Helmold.pdf

That sounds fishy. Even assuming it's partly true, it makes no
difference anyway, the brand name is what matters.


It doesn't matter. It's no different than your boss telling you to
do something. Doesn't matter whether you work in the same building
or are owned by the same parent company your boss works for.

It's completely different from that. Your answer has no bearing at all
on the subject at hand and, frankly, is strange.

I would ask for citations, but I know your reply would bounce off
of too many rails.

That's interesting but I don't see any citations.

I've provided more evidence than you did with your worthless
"experience" and "research."

Do the calculations.

That's from experience.

Citations? None, of course.

Again, that's interesting but I don't see any citations.

Here are some remarks from experienced technicians:

www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=388

You lumped the new TruePowers into your bashing and I have a feeling
you are wrong at least about that. I haven't seen anything except
glowing reviews for the entire line of TruePowers.

Reviewers perform only short-term testing, and capacitor failure is
mostly a long-term problem. Truepowers use the same Fuhjyu caps found
in Smartpowers, operated under very simlar conditions, meaning there's
every reason Truepowers should suffer as much from premature capacitor
aging as Smartpowers do, and the anecdotal evidence from technicians is
that this is the case.

 

[John Doe]

Please cite some of your experience

Sorry, but it's not published elsewhere. See above?

and research, as it was left out of your message.

The problem with low-quality electrolytic capacitors has been
well-know for several years now and has affected products from
many companies, including IBM, Dell, and several Japanese
manufacturers. If you haven't experienced it, then you simply
either don't have much experience, or everything you buy contains
Japanese brand caps, except Nichicon HM and HN series.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I missed the mainboard capacitor problem
too.

The problem was originally thought to be
isolated to a single source of chemicals, but apparently many of
the larger capacitor manufacturers from Taiwan still produce low
qualtiy products:


www.dfrsolutions.com/Articles/2004_Electrolyte_Hillman.Helmold.pdf

You are making a straw man. You have to show that Antec is
using low-quality capacitors, not just that low-quality capacitors
exist.

It's completely different from that. Your answer has no bearing
at all on the subject at hand and, frankly, is strange.

If you forgot what you wrote, scroll up. You were arguing that
there's something wrong with Antec not building its own power
supplies. I am trying to enlighten you to the fact that it doesn't
matter. The brand is what matters.

I've provided more evidence than you did with your worthless
"experience" and "research."

The only thing you have provided so far is an opinion that there are
such things as bad capacitors and that bad components are bad.
That's easy to understand and I can accept it as true, but it's
hardly meaningful.

Citations? None, of course.

If you don't know that ambient temperature has a magnified effect on
component temperature, then maybe you shouldn't be acting like a
technician.

Here are some remarks from experienced technicians:

www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=388

The only relevant remarks would be about Antec using low-quality
capacitors. I find no reference to Antec on that moderated
discussion forum web page, as if it would matter.

Reviewers perform only short-term testing, and capacitor failure
is mostly a long-term problem. Truepowers use the same Fuhjyu
caps found in Smartpowers, operated under very simlar conditions,
meaning there's every reason Truepowers should suffer as much from
premature capacitor aging as Smartpowers do, and the anecdotal
evidence from technicians is that this is the case.

If you'd prefer to avoid spewing your argument all over the place,
here is your argument as I understand it.

You are saying that Antec is using low-quality components.

Babbling about low-quality capacitors isn't enough. You need to
provide citations to backup your claim that Antec power supplies use
low-quality capacitors. Otherwise your opinions are easily dismissed
as phony/biased.

It's that simple IMO.

 

[John Doe]

A discussion about an Antec power supply purchased in 2002.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14116577

BA wrote:
"If they really cared about quality, they wouldn't be using
Taiwanese brands at all. Rubycon, Nichicon, Sanyo, Panasonic...
there are so many proven Japanese brands."

Then BA provided this link:
http://www.obengware.com/uji/2005/antectruepowerii-48010.jpg

Oddly, his comment conflicts with his reference. That picture shows
Rubycon capacitors in Antec's TruePower power supply.

Apparently some people enjoy whining about bad capacitors made in
prior years. If I had been burned, maybe I would too.

 

[John Doe]

The problem with low-quality electrolytic capacitors has been
well-know for several years now and has affected products from
many companies,

That's old news to this group and it's irrelevant to this thread.

Reviewers perform only short-term testing, and capacitor failure
is mostly a long-term problem. Truepowers use the same Fuhjyu
caps

Apparently that's misinformation.

Here is the insides of an Antec TruePower 2.

http://www.obengware.com/uji/2005/antectruepowerii-48010h.jpg

If that is information you were fishing for, you're welcome.

 

[John Doe]

A nym shifting troll spewing misinformation.

See also:
"Norm De Plume" <norm_de_plume my-deja.com>
beerspill whoever.com
do_not_spam_me my-deja.com


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From: beerspill whoever.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: Antec vs Zalman Power Supply
Date: 24 Oct 2006 02:29:56 -0700
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I'm guessing crappy environment .... student lab .. hot in summer
.. dusty. Even Antec can't build for that.

Antec doesn't build anything. They have it built and designed
(except for cosmetics) by other companies, and one of those
companies uses crappy capacitors and runs its fans at slow speeds.
$10 worth of Japanese caps will improve the reliability of these
Antecs, whether they're Smartpowers or Truepowers, more than air
conditioning and more frequent use of hibernate mode will.

 

[beerspill]

beerspill whoever.com wrote:

I had no trouble with "those" bad caps, whatever "those" is
referring to.

My last power supply was an Antec 350W SmartPower. I think it's
the 22 amp at 12 volt version which apparently was an update to
the original. It still works just fine. Before that, I had an
Antec 230 W supply. It still works just fine.

My current power supply is an Antec 380 TruePower. The whole
TruePower series is exceptionally well liked by hordes of users.

That's my experience/research.


Sorry, but it's not published elsewhere. See above?

You didn't list anything. 3 power supplies does not constitute
"experience," nor does merely using them equal "research."

and research, as it was left out of your message.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I missed the mainboard capacitor problem too.


You are making a straw man. You have to show that Antec is
using low-quality capacitors, not just that low-quality capacitors
exist

Anybody with experience knows that Fuhjyu capacitors are among the
worst, so bad that it's irresponsible to recommend a power supply
containing them..

That sounds fishy. Even assuming it's partly true, it makes no
difference anyway, the brand name is what matters.


It doesn't matter. It's no different than your boss telling you
to do something. Doesn't matter whether you work in the same
building or are owned by the same parent company your boss works for.

If you forgot what you wrote, scroll up. You were arguing that
there's something wrong with Antec not building its own power
supplies.

I've never done that. You're not comprehending the writing correctly.

I am trying to enlighten you to the fact that it doesn't
matter. The brand is what matters.

You have nothing to teach anyone, and brand doesn't matter -
manufacturer does.

I would ask for citations, but I know your reply would bounce off
of too many rails.


That's interesting but I don't see any citations.

The only thing you have provided so far is an opinion that there are
such things as bad capacitors and that bad components are bad.
That's easy to understand and I can accept it as true, but it's
hardly meaningful.

I base my words not only on my experience repairing hundreds of power
supplies and motherboards but also on the experiences of others who
know far more than I do.

$10 worth of Japanese caps will improve the reliability of
these Antecs, whether they're Smartpowers or Truepowers, more
than air conditioning and more frequent use of hibernate mode will.

Decreasing ambient/room temperature makes a big difference for
electronic components.


That's from experience.

If you don't know that ambient temperature has a magnified effect on
component temperature, then maybe you shouldn't be acting like a
technician.

That doesn't matter except at high temperatures, but these low-quality
capacitors are failing at high rates and very prematurely at just 50C
average, where they should easily last a decade.

Again, that's interesting but I don't see any citations.

The only relevant remarks would be about Antec using low-quality
capacitors. I find no reference to Antec on that moderated
discussion forum web page, as if it would matter.

Look harder, and read the opinions those technicians have of Fuhjyu
verses brands like Sanyo and Rubycon.

You lumped the new TruePowers into your bashing and I have a
feeling you are wrong at least about that. I haven't seen
anything except glowing reviews for the entire line of
TruePowers.

If you'd prefer to avoid spewing your argument all over the place,
here is your argument as I understand it.

This from the person who wandered aimlessly with the absurdity, "It's
no different than your boss telling you to do something. Doesn't
matter whether you work in the same building or are owned by the same
parent company your boss works for."

You are saying that Antec is using low-quality components.

Babbling about low-quality capacitors isn't enough. You need to
provide citations to backup your claim that Antec power supplies use
low-quality capacitors. Otherwise your opinions are easily dismissed
as phony/biased.

It's that simple IMO.

It's that simple-minded, IYO. Even the best electrolytic capacitors
are typically the least reliable non-mechanical components found in any
electronic device, and the lifespans of the best and worst capacitors
may differ by as much as 10:1. Even Dell Computer set aside hundreds
of millions of dollars to cover repair costs related to low-quality
Taiwan capacitors.

 

[beerspill]

That's old news to this group and it's irrelevant to this thread.


Apparently that's misinformation.

Here is the insides of an Antec TruePower 2.

http://www.obengware.com/uji/2005/antectruepowerii-48010h.jpg

If that is information you were fishing for, you're welcome.

Those capacitors are in the low frequency (120 Hz) section, where
capacitors rarely fail (one reason why most are rated fro only 85C),
even low quality ones (but the Rubycons shown are excellent).

You should have instead pointed to this photo, from the same review:

www.obengware.com/uji/2005/antectruepowerii-48013h.jpg

While the brand labelling on those capacitors isn't visible, the 3 cuts
on top of each and the markings "BA12" indicate they're Fuhjyus. It's
common for a device to contain more than one brand of capacitors.

What point were you trying to make?

 

[John Doe]

Those capacitors are in the low frequency (120 Hz) section, where
capacitors rarely fail (one reason why most are rated fro only
85C), even low quality ones (but the Rubycons shown are
excellent).

And those are the ones included with Antec TruePower power supplies.

Go figure.

You should have instead pointed to this photo, from the same
review:

www.obengware.com/uji/2005/antectruepowerii-48013h.jpg

While the brand labelling on those capacitors isn't visible, the 3
cuts on top of each and the markings "BA12" indicate they're
Fuhjyus. It's common for a device to contain more than one brand
of capacitors.

What point were you trying to make?

Sloppy. Just like when you bashed Arctic Silver because it stains
your clothes. Reminds me of me patient doctor discussion... "Doctor,
it stains when I put it on my clothes" and the doctor replies "Then
don't put it on your clothes!"

Still trying to substantiate your claim, I just did a search for

Fuhjyu BA12

Turned up nothing.

I think you are stuck on that time several years ago when bad
capacitors ended up in certain circuits. We all know about that but
this is today and things have changed.

 

[John Doe]

Same nym shifting troll that bashes Arctic Silver because
it stains his clothes.

See also:
"Norm De Plume" <norm_de_plume my-deja.com>
beerspill whoever.com
do_not_spam_me my-deja.com


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From: beerspill whoever.com
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: Antec vs Zalman Power Supply
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beerspill whoever.com wrote:

I had no trouble with "those" bad caps, whatever "those" is
referring to.

My last power supply was an Antec 350W SmartPower. I think it's
the 22 amp at 12 volt version which apparently was an update to
the original. It still works just fine. Before that, I had an
Antec 230 W supply. It still works just fine.

My current power supply is an Antec 380 TruePower. The whole
TruePower series is exceptionally well liked by hordes of users.

That's my experience/research.


Sorry, but it's not published elsewhere. See above?

You didn't list anything. 3 power supplies does not constitute
"experience," nor does merely using them equal "research."

and research, as it was left out of your message.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I missed the mainboard capacitor problem too.


You are making a straw man. You have to show that Antec is
using low-quality capacitors, not just that low-quality capacitors
exist

Anybody with experience knows that Fuhjyu capacitors are among the
worst, so bad that it's irresponsible to recommend a power supply
containing them..

That sounds fishy. Even assuming it's partly true, it makes no
difference anyway, the brand name is what matters.


It doesn't matter. It's no different than your boss telling you
to do something. Doesn't matter whether you work in the same
building or are owned by the same parent company your boss works for.

If you forgot what you wrote, scroll up. You were arguing that
there's something wrong with Antec not building its own power
supplies.

I've never done that. You're not comprehending the writing correctly.

I am trying to enlighten you to the fact that it doesn't
matter. The brand is what matters.

You have nothing to teach anyone, and brand doesn't matter -
manufacturer does.

I would ask for citations, but I know your reply would bounce off
of too many rails.


That's interesting but I don't see any citations.

The only thing you have provided so far is an opinion that there are
such things as bad capacitors and that bad components are bad.
That's easy to understand and I can accept it as true, but it's
hardly meaningful.

I base my words not only on my experience repairing hundreds of power
supplies and motherboards but also on the experiences of others who
know far more than I do.

$10 worth of Japanese caps will improve the reliability of
these Antecs, whether they're Smartpowers or Truepowers, more
than air conditioning and more frequent use of hibernate mode will.

Decreasing ambient/room temperature makes a big difference for
electronic components.


That's from experience.

If you don't know that ambient temperature has a magnified effect on
component temperature, then maybe you shouldn't be acting like a
technician.

That doesn't matter except at high temperatures, but these low-quality
capacitors are failing at high rates and very prematurely at just 50C
average, where they should easily last a decade.

Again, that's interesting but I don't see any citations.

The only relevant remarks would be about Antec using low-quality
capacitors. I find no reference to Antec on that moderated
discussion forum web page, as if it would matter.

Look harder, and read the opinions those technicians have of Fuhjyu
verses brands like Sanyo and Rubycon.

You lumped the new TruePowers into your bashing and I have a
feeling you are wrong at least about that. I haven't seen
anything except glowing reviews for the entire line of
TruePowers.

If you'd prefer to avoid spewing your argument all over the place,
here is your argument as I understand it.

This from the person who wandered aimlessly with the absurdity, "It's
no different than your boss telling you to do something. Doesn't
matter whether you work in the same building or are owned by the same
parent company your boss works for."

You are saying that Antec is using low-quality components.

Babbling about low-quality capacitors isn't enough. You need to
provide citations to backup your claim that Antec power supplies use
low-quality capacitors. Otherwise your opinions are easily dismissed
as phony/biased.

It's that simple IMO.

It's that simple-minded, IYO. Even the best electrolytic capacitors
are typically the least reliable non-mechanical components found in any
electronic device, and the lifespans of the best and worst capacitors
may differ by as much as 10:1. Even Dell Computer set aside hundreds
of millions of dollars to cover repair costs related to low-quality
Taiwan capacitors.

 

[beerspill]

beerspill whoever.com wrote:

Apparently that's misinformation.

Here is the insides of an Antec TruePower 2.

http://www.obengware.com/uji/2005/antectruepowerii-48010h.jpg

If that is information you were fishing for, you're welcome.

And those are the ones included with Antec TruePower power supplies.

Go figure.

Still trying to substantiate your claim, I just did a search for

Fuhjyu BA12

Turned up nothing.

It should be "Fuhjyyu," and BA12 doesn't refer to the type but may be
a date code. The type may be TM, but the color doesn't seem right:

www.fuhjyyu.com.tw/pro.htm

I think you are stuck on that time several years ago when bad
capacitors ended up in certain circuits. We all know about that but
this is today and things have changed.

Do you have any citations?

The problem of a few years ago was supposed to be due to defective
electrolyte from one source, but I can't believe it was the only
contributing factor because some Taiwan capacitors as new 2005 are
still failing much more than Japanese brands, with Teapo being one
brand that has gotten better.