ANS: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission screens)" and "...But I thought I was

[Kayman]

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:41:01 -0700, ScottK wrote:

Having to do 6 to 8 mouse clicks for each of two dozen directories is NOT FUN.
Again, How do I turn it off?

Give it some time and be a little bit more patient. The mouse clicking
frequency will lessen eventually.
1. Do not work in elevated level; Day-to-day work should be
performed while the User Account Control (UAC) is enabled. Turning
off UAC reduces the security of your computer and may expose you to
increased risk from malicious software.
2. Familiarize yourself with "Services Hardening in Windows Vista".
3. Keep your operating (OS) system (and all software on it)
updated/patched.
4. Reconsider the usage of IE.
5. Review your installed 3rd party software applications/utilities;
Remove clutter.
6. Don't expose services to public networks.
7. Activate the build-in firewall and tack together its advanced
configuration settings.
7a.If on high-speed internet use a router as well.
8. Routinely practice safe-hex.
9. Regularly back-up data/files.
10.Familiarize yourself with crash recovery tools and with
re-installing your operating system (OS).
11.Utilize a real-time anti-virus application and vital system
monitoring utilities/applications.
12.Keep abreast of the latest developments - Sh!t happens...you know.

The least preferred defenses are:
Myriads of popular anti-whatever applications and staying ignorant.

Peez of pith, really

 

[Aaron Martinez]

Well i want to know , not if I should turn the (A program needs your
permission to continue) message. but how to turn it off. I tried running the
program as administrator but its still not working. i want to avoid going to
the process of having that message that always end up making programs that
use the same message (A program needs your permission to continue) ran. I
want to turn it off so it wont close the other programs. thanks for your help

 

[Spirit]

http://www.tweak-uac.com/
UAC explained and a little utility to help control it.

The rest are good information sources.

http://www.petri.co.il/disable_uac_in_windows_vista.htm

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa906022.aspx

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/help/f941cb45-b2cd-4b39-ab87-cb9ea959f44e1033.mspx

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905108.aspx

http://technet2.microsoft.com/Windo...8514-4c9e-ac08-4c21f5c6c2d91033.mspx?mfr=true

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/06/UAC/default.aspx
Extremely detailed

 

[Steve Thackery]

Well i want to know , not if I should turn the (A program needs your

permission to continue) message. but how to turn it off.

Here is what you should do. You should contact the vendor and get an
updated version of the program, because it is INCORRECTLY WRITTEN.

It breaks the XP programming guidelines. Yes, I said the *XP* guidelines,
which were published years ago.

XP was lax and let such programs run anyway. Vista polices those guidelines
much more rigidly, for security reasons.

If you insist on turning off UAC, simply type 'vista turn off uac' into
Google! I've done it for you - here is the best link:

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...nt-control-uac-the-easy-way-on-windows-vista/

....(watch the line break)

SteveT

 

[Ernst]

Exellent explanation Jimmy. Thank You. I now, after months of using Vista and
hours of searching the net, understand the basic reasoning behind all my
suffering. It makes a lot of sense and I will definitely make myself a
seperate user account for daily use. Having said this I do not believe
Microsoft is going to get the everage Joe to go through such a steep learning
curve. Also, giving a program temporary administrator rights does not work
with my very first attempt on Explorer. A numeber of files and folders have
either been hidden, deleted or placed elsewhere by Vista when re-directing
the documents and picture folders to another drive (following directions by
MS Help). F.i. folders from my documents directory have ended up inside my
pictures directory. When trying to reorganise with Explorer (with
administrator rights) I still get pop ups telling me I am not authorised to
perform these tasks. I know MS is trying to give me control, but it sure does
not feel like it.
My only option seems to be to temporarily switch off UAC to get reorganised.
Any other suggestions? Ernst

 

[Charlie Tame]

Ernst, the UAC system is Microsoft's way of putting the horse back in
front of the cart.

The convention with Unix / Linux has always been to have one admin -
"Root" and everyone else as users.

Generally it's been the opposite with Windows.

Unfortunately Vista does not "Explain" that as the "Owner" or
"Installer" of the system you are really only a privileged "User". The
impressions is that you are "Special" because in the past you always were.

With Linux it has been convention for years that running as "Root" is a
bad thing, and the more sophisticated the software you are using
(Graphical User Interface for example) the more dangerous that would be
because quite simply there's more chance of a bug letting bad things happen.

So to do anything with older Linux you would sign out as "Ernst" and
back in as "Root". Normally neither "Ernst" nor malware could do much to
damage the system.

Later versions allow "Ernst" to use the command "SUDO" (or similar) to
temporarily gain admin rights (Root) for one specific task or groups of
tasks.

With Windows the convention has been the wrong way around, and this is a
kind of "Legacy" carried on by the users who expect to always have
total control at all times. Unfortunately this also gives a bad guy at
your desktop, a bad guy with a remote terminal or bad software the same
control.

So although I think UAC is a clumsy and sometimes annoying way of trying
to persuade people to do it the right way, it is an advisory tool that
has some merit. It is NOT per-se increased security if you are silly and
let things you are unaware of do what they ask, any more than the Linux
method is "Security" if you become "Root" and let unknown software take
actions it requests.

In some circumstances signing in as "Root" might be acceptable, in your
case it probably was, but with the amount of malware, spyware and stuff
targeting Windows these days most users who were running as full admin
were in danger.

 

[Ernst]

Charlie, Thank you for this extensive respons. Yes I understand what you are
saying, but this was already clear to me from the earlier part of the thread.
I also agree with the principal behind it. I have worked for many years with
firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Comodo that use a similar principal: Ask the
user what program is allowed access (the computer or the internet). However,
these firewalls have never stopped me from doing the work that I need doing
on my PC. UAC is. If this UAC is applied it should work properly, both in
protection AND in giving access when given permission by me as administrator
to do so. As I have described in my previous post, I cannot copy files within
my user directory (from pictures to documents) even after starting Explorer
up with administrator rights (right mouse button). Vista Home still tells me
I do not have the correct authorisation. Never mind the fact that my owner
directory is a mess after having stored (diverted) subdirectories on a
different drive using the directions provided by Help. Basically this is a
different problem, but they might be related. Ever since redirecting the
pictures and the documents folders to the D-drive, the folder I had stored
them in on the D-Drive has disappeared from view, including all the other
files and subdirectories that it contained. I guess they are all still
somewhere on the system, but I cannot see and thus cannot access them
anymore. Other files and folders have switched directory. The example I gave
was my bookkeeping folder. This folder used to be stored in 'Documents'.
Since the divertion it is stored in the 'Pictures' directory. Go figure.
Now, is the only way to reorganise my user directory to go 'root' and
temporarily turn off UAC or is there another way to achieve this? To put it
in another way: How can I make UAC do its job all the way? And HOW would I be
able to temporarily turn UAC off by the time I loose my patience completely?
And when I say temporarily, I mean temporarily, because I do agree with the
basic idea of UAC.
Thank you.
Ernst

 

[Nonny]

Charlie, Thank you for this extensive respons. Yes I understand what you are
saying, but this was already clear to me from the earlier part of the thread.
I also agree with the principal behind it. I have worked for many years with
firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Comodo that use a similar principal: Ask the
user what program is allowed access (the computer or the internet). However,
these firewalls have never stopped me from doing the work that I need doing
on my PC. UAC is.

I stopped reading at this point (it would have been a lot easier to
continue reading if you had used paragraphing).

If UAC is interferring, you have two choices:

1) download and run TweakUAC which will force UAC to run in "silent
mode" and will greatly reduce the prompts you get. It will still
permit IE to run in "protected mode".

2) disable UAC entirely.

 

[FromTheRafters]

Charlie, Thank you for this extensive respons. Yes I understand what you
are
saying, but this was already clear to me from the earlier part of the
thread.
I also agree with the principal behind it. I have worked for many years
with
firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Comodo that use a similar principal: Ask the
user what program is allowed access (the computer or the internet).
However,
these firewalls have never stopped me from doing the work that I need
doing
on my PC. UAC is.

Vista hides and disables the actual most privileged account to make it
harder
for users to take that lazy and less secure option. It creates the
"Administrator"
account so the administrator can get most of the access he or she needs with
an "Admin Approval Mode" feature. This way, people who feel they need to
be admin all the time can do so without severely reducing security as long
as
they don't get too clickhappy - because "Administrator" is actually running
with user privileges until elevated by answering prompts.

Making an easy way to circumvent the feature is equivalent to completely
defeating it because malware can do almost whatever the user can do. In
fact, firewall application's abilities in this respect could be used by
malware
to the detriment of real security while adding to false security.

UAC is pretty annoying at first, but I hardly ever get prompted any more.
I suppose if you routinely have to execute strange and/or badly written
programs, you could reestablish the most privileged user account and
have your computer as secure as Windows 98. UAC seems to be aimed
at reducing the fertile breeding ground for malware created by average users
running with the brain-dead default settings Microsoft traditionally used to
get that smooth out-of-the-box experience. They wanted to get people
comfortable with computers. It's time to make the internet a safer place,
if that means average users have to adopt better practices (enforced by
UAC) then I say it is a "good thing". If you are a good netizen, and you
know what you are doing, then maybe UAC isn't for you. There *is* a way,
I think, to re-enable the real administrator and display it as an option on
the
logon screen but I don't recall where I got this notion.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Charlie, Thank you for this extensive respons. Yes I understand what you
are
saying, but this was already clear to me from the earlier part of the
thread.
I also agree with the principal behind it. I have worked for many years
with
firewalls like ZoneAlarm and Comodo that use a similar principal: Ask the
user what program is allowed access (the computer or the internet).
However,
these firewalls have never stopped me from doing the work that I need
doing
on my PC. UAC is. If this UAC is applied it should work properly, both in
protection AND in giving access when given permission by me as
administrator
to do so. As I have described in my previous post, I cannot copy files
within
my user directory (from pictures to documents) even after starting
Explorer
up with administrator rights (right mouse button). Vista Home still tells
me
I do not have the correct authorisation. Never mind the fact that my owner
directory is a mess after having stored (diverted) subdirectories on a
different drive using the directions provided by Help. Basically this is a
different problem, but they might be related. Ever since redirecting the
pictures and the documents folders to the D-drive, the folder I had stored
them in on the D-Drive has disappeared from view, including all the other
files and subdirectories that it contained. I guess they are all still
somewhere on the system, but I cannot see and thus cannot access them
anymore. Other files and folders have switched directory. The example I
gave
was my bookkeeping folder. This folder used to be stored in 'Documents'.
Since the divertion it is stored in the 'Pictures' directory. Go figure.
Now, is the only way to reorganise my user directory to go 'root' and
temporarily turn off UAC or is there another way to achieve this? To put
it
in another way: How can I make UAC do its job all the way? And HOW would I
be
able to temporarily turn UAC off by the time I loose my patience
completely?
And when I say temporarily, I mean temporarily, because I do agree with
the
basic idea of UAC.

It sounds like the root (pun intended) of your problem is permissions. The
UAC prompt is one of the symptoms, not the problem. Even though the UAC
prompt is annoying unless you're very comfortable with the command prompt
it's best to leave it on when dealing with permissions. Windows Explorer is
made to work with UAC. With UAC off changing permissions via the GUI
(Windows Explorer) may not work as you expect it to. Some things may fail
because the process doesn't get elevated. You may want to temporarily enable
the real "Administrator" account, fix the problem logged on with that
account, then disable it again.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555910

Alternatively you can do this by typing commands in an elevated command
prompt.

You will probably also want to read up on "junctions". It sounds like you
may have inadvertently created some junctions.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vista+junctions+site:microsoft.com&meta=

The easiest way may be to create a new user account then copy whatever files
you can to this account. Once you're sure you've got the data delete the old
account and the messed up directories.

 

[Ernst]

Thanks Nonny, but I don't mind the prompts. I like the protection. I just
need UAC ti REALLy allow me to fix my problems.

 

[Ernst]

Thanx Rafters.

Vista hides and disables the actual most privileged account to make it
harder
for users to take that lazy and less secure option. It creates the
"Administrator"
account so the administrator can get most of the access he or she needs with
an "Admin Approval Mode" feature. This way, people who feel they need to
be admin all the time can do so without severely reducing security as long
as
they don't get too clickhappy - because "Administrator" is actually running
with user privileges until elevated by answering prompts.

Making an easy way to circumvent the feature is equivalent to completely
defeating it because malware can do almost whatever the user can do. In
fact, firewall application's abilities in this respect could be used by
malware
to the detriment of real security while adding to false security.

UAC is pretty annoying at first, but I hardly ever get prompted any more.
I suppose if you routinely have to execute strange and/or badly written
programs, you could reestablish the most privileged user account and
have your computer as secure as Windows 98. UAC seems to be aimed
at reducing the fertile breeding ground for malware created by average users
running with the brain-dead default settings Microsoft traditionally used to
get that smooth out-of-the-box experience. They wanted to get people
comfortable with computers. It's time to make the internet a safer place,
if that means average users have to adopt better practices (enforced by
UAC) then I say it is a "good thing". If you are a good netizen, and you
know what you are doing, then maybe UAC isn't for you. There *is* a way,
I think, to re-enable the real administrator and display it as an option on
the
logon screen but I don't recall where I got this notion.

 

[Ernst]

Thanks Kerry, I will follow your links (tomorrow) and see how far it will
take me. It looks like it should help me resolve the issues.

The 'real' admin-account may show me more of what is actually happening.

The junctions are indeed new to me, I'll read up on it.

And yes, if I all else fails, maybe copying to a new account may help (if I
get permission to do so .

Thanks for taking my problem seriously.

Ernst

 

[Ernst]

Interesting point, Mike. Thank you. I am currently using a trial version of
Symantec's Internet Security version 10.2.0.30 that was pre-installed as OEM
software on my MSI PR 200 laptop. It shows a copyright registration of 2006.
I have looked on the Symantec site, but I could not determine the Vista
compatibility.
I also use Hitman Pro which updates itself and it's underlying software on a
regular basis.
Ernst

 

[Ernst]

I'll try Kerry's suggestions and I will, as you suggest, uninstall these
anti-malware programs. I want to recover some files, so I will try these
actions first. As a last resort I may indeed have to reinstal Vista. Thank
you Michael. Ernst

 

[Lemonheart]

I can't stand permissions - I'm a stand-alone user and do not need them - I
know how to turn them off but still get denied permission anyway and it
drives me nuts - you Vista people don't understand the difficulty of trying
to figure out "inherited"?? permissions and how to drill down or up to get
the darn permissions granted and talk about "special permissions" - there's
no way I can get in or out of that screen - even when I turn off User Account
-the stupid icon shield comes up with a scary message that puts chills up
and down my spine - come'on folks just tell me how to get rid of them - they
make me want to go to a MAC - I know someone posted a way to get rid of the
from DOS - Please help me if you have any compassion - I don't need the
reasons you Vista people extoll - I'm a DINK and want ease of use and
simplicity in my computer work -

Let me know

 

[semoi]

If you agree to purchase Vista SP3, aka Windows 7, your issues with UAC will
be resolved, along with some, not all, of the idiotic performance draining
issues in Vista.
Alas, in typical Microsoft fashion, your peripherals may not work ever again
due to driver changes for which Microsoft will blame the peripheral vendor
or you rather than itself, just like the UAC tries to shift the blame to you
for installing an errant program rather than actually screening the program
to tell you if it is dangerous.

 

[Richard]

I need to boot directly from hibernate or sleep into a running program,
without the USERNAME icon appearing and requiring a keystroke from me. I
have my computer set to automatically wake up at 9AM and start trading stocks

 

[Richard]

Hello,

I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are either
directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In this post,
I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind it, how to
use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off, and answer
some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.


* What is UAC and what does it do?

UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation that
(primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.

When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly give
permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers. Any
program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will be
denied access.


* How does UAC work

When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given only
"standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in as an
administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be "elevated" to get
full admin access to the system:

- If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up, and you
click Continue
- If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it, then
clicking Run As Administrator

A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give permission,
ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot change from
one to the other.

If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts another
program, that program will automatically be given admin powers without
needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows Explorer as
administrator, and then double-click on a text file, notepad will open and
display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was opened from the
admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically run WITH admin
powers, and will not ask for permission.


* What's the point of UAC?

UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your hands,
instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.

When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that could
somehow get itself started could take control of the entire computer without
you even knowing about it.

With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in order for
it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the program got
there or how it is started.

This is important to all levels of users - from home users to enterprise
administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin powers and
being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such power is a
VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system tantamount to
"crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU now control your
system.


* How do I effectively use my computer with UAC turned on?

It's easy. Just keep in mind that programs don't have admin access to your
computer unless you give them permission. Microsoft programs that come with
Windows Vista that need admin access will always ask for admin permissions
when you start them. However, most other programs will not.

This will change after Windows Vista is released - all Windows Vista-era
programs that need admin power will always ask you for it. Until then, you
will need to run programs that need administrative powers that were not
designed for Windows Vista "as administrator".

Command-line programs do not automatically ask for permission. Not even the
built-in ones. You will need to run the command prompt "as administrator" in
order to run administrative command-line utilities.

Working with files and folders from Windows Explorer can be a real pain when
you are not working with your own files. When you are needing to work with
system files, files that you didn't create, or files from another operating
system, run Windows Explorer "as administrator". In the same vein, ANY
program that you run that needs access to system files or files that you
didn't create will need to be ran "as administrator".

If you are going to be working with the control panel for a long time,
running control.exe "as administrator" will make things less painful - you
will only be asked for permission once, instead of every time you try to
change a system-wide setting.

In short:

- Run command prompt as admin when you need to run admin utilities
- Run setup programs as admin
- Run programs not designed for Vista as admin if (and only if) they need
admin access
- Run Windows Explorer as admin when you need access to files that aren't
yours or system files
- Run programs that need access to files that aren't yours or system files
as admin
- Run control.exe as admin when changing many settings in the control panel


* UAC is annoying, I want to turn it off

Having to go through an extra step (clicking Continue) when opening
administrative programs is annoying. And it is also very frustrating to run
a program that needs admin power but doesn't automatically ask you for it
(you have to right-click these programs and click Run As Administrator for
them to run correctly).

But, keep in mind that these small inconveniences are insignificant when
weighed against the benefit: NO PROGRAM can get full access to your system
without you being informed. The first time the permission dialog pops up and
it is from some program that you know nothing about or that you do not want
to have access to your system, you will be very glad that the Cancel button
was available to you.


* Answers to common questions and responses to common criticism

Q: I have anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or something similar.
Why do I need UAC?

A: Detectors can only see known threats. And of all the known threats in
existence, they only detect the most common of those threats. With UAC
turned on, *you* control what programs have access to your computer - you
can stop ALL threats. Detectors are nice, but they're not enough. How many
people do you know that have detectors of all kinds and yet are still
infested with programs that they don't want on their computer? Everyone that
I have ever helped falls into this category.


Q: Does UAC replace anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or similar
programs?

A: No. Microsoft recommends that you use a virus scanner and/or other types
of security software. These types of programs compliment UAC: They will get
rid of known threats for you. UAC will allow you to stop unknown threats, as
well as prevent any program that you do not trust from gaining access to
your computer.


Q: I am a system administrator - I have no use for UAC.

A: Really? You don't NEED to know when a program on your computer runs with
admin powers? You are a system administrator and you really could care less
when a program runs that has full control of your system, and possibly your
entire domain? You're joking, right?


Q: UAC keeps me from accessing files and folders

A: No, it doesn't - UAC protects you from programs that would try to delete
or modify system files and folders without your knowledge. If you want a
program to have full access to the files on your computer, you will need to
run it as admin. Or as an alternative, if possible, put the files it needs
access to in a place that all programs have access to - such as your
documents folder, or any folder under your user folder.


Q: UAC stops programs from working correctly

A: If a program needs admin power and it doesn't ask you for permission when
it starts, you have to give it admin powers by right-clicking it and
clicking Run As Administrator. Programs should work like they did in XP when
you use Run As Administrator. If they don't, then this is a bug.


Q: UAC keeps me from doing things that I could do in XP

A: This is not the case. Just remember that programs that do not ask for
permission when they start do not get admin access to your computer. If you
are using a tool that needs admin access, right-click it and click Run As
Administrator. It should work exactly as it did in XP. If it does not, then
this is a bug.


Q: UAC is Microsoft's way of controlling my computer and preventing me from
using it!

A: This is 100% UNTRUE. UAC puts control of your computer IN YOUR HANDS by
allowing you to prevent unwanted programs from accessing your computer.
*Everything* that you can do with UAC turned off, you can do with it turned
on. If this is not the case, then that is a bug.


Q: I don't need Windows to hold my freaking hand! I *know* what I've got on
my computer, and I *know* when programs run! I am logged on as an
ADMINISTRATOR for a dang reason!

A: I accept the way that you think, and can see the logic, but I don't agree
with this idea. UAC is putting POWER in your hands by letting you CONTROL
what runs on your system. But you want to give up this control and allow all
programs to run willy-nilly. Look, if you want to do this go right ahead,
you can turn UAC off and things will return to how they worked in XP. But,
don't be surprised when either 1) You run something by mistake that messes
up your computer and/or domain, or 2) A program somehow gets on your
computer that you know nothing about that takes over your computer and/or
domain, and UAC would have allowed you to have stopped it.


- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/

 

[Camper]

You also need to learn to trim a post before hitting the send button.

Camper