An epidemic of unanswered questions

[Bob]

It's been four days since I posted my first request for
assistance (I've reposted my request four times in so
many days). I'm not sure what it takes for someone to
get an answer to a question in this forum. Getting an
answer in this forum really seems like a crapshoot. I
checked the threads all the way back to June and see that
a sizable number of people never get any reply - in fact,
it looks as if more people don't get a reply than do.

I realize that this forum is staffed by volunteers -
MVPs? Nevertheless, if Microsoft intends such forums to
be a viable and credible alternative to direct support
from non-volunteer MS reps, then a much more concerted
effort to answer questions needs to be in place. This of
course assumes that Microsoft really cares about customer
service, which is clearly a dubious assumption. It's
also not clear why Microsoft would associate itself with
this forum in the first place. It seems to be a very
hands off approach on their part - they're not investing
much in this "support" forum and with the very low
response rate it only further tarnishes the already
negative reputation of Microsoft "support".

In any event, whatever the criterion is for answering
support questions, it appears extremely arbitrary at
best. The problem isn't in allowing enough time for MVPs
or whomever to answer questions because a sizable number
of requests never get answered (take a look for
yourself) - and from a cursory glance this seems to be
the case more often than not.

If the problem is a lack of volunteers, then Microsoft
needs to recruit more volunteers; if it's a problem with
incompetent volunteers, then Microsoft needs to recruit
competent volunteers; if it's a problem with Microsoft's
lack of commitment to customer service then scrap the
forum altogether - what's the point. I think it's simply
Microsoft's way shirking their responsibility to provide
customer support while maintaining the (false) appearance
of actually providing customer service.

I suggest users of this forum go to www.virtualdr.com for
their Microsoft support questions. They may not be able
to solve your problem but at least they reply and make an
effort to help.

 

[PapaJohn \(MVP\)]

Bob,

This is a more interesting post to me than your others, which didn't relate
to Movie Maker. But I'm an MVP.

I have a Toshiba Satellite 5200 series laptop, with all the latest updates.
I just did a reboot and checked - no blackness for 3 to 4 seconds between
the tone and the desktop. Some pause but not with a black screen.

If that's the extent of your problems, everyone should be so fortunate. If
it's only one of many clues, than maybe you should include a list of the
others.

PapaJohn

 

[Bob]

Thanks for replying PapaJohn!

I know it's not a huge problem in-and-of-itself, if at
all, but I worry that it may be symptomatic of something
larger. And I found it curious that it only began to
happen after applying all the hotfixes. Hence, it may be
an incompatibility problem.

I do realize that my post below is not flattering to
MVPs, but I'm assuming that such a low response rate is
due to so few volunteers relative to requests for help.
Thus, the problem lies with Microsoft and not with the
MVPs per se. And I also realize Microsoft really doesn't
care. I wanted to express my dissatisfaction with
Microsoft anyway, with the full realization that a
Microsoft rep will not read my comments and if they did
wouldn't think twice about it. Microsoft continually
fulfills my expectations unfortunately.

 

[Wislu Plethora]

-----Original Message-----
It's been four days since I posted my first request for
assistance (I've reposted my request four times in so
many days). I'm not sure what it takes for someone to
get an answer to a question in this forum. Getting an
answer in this forum really seems like a crapshoot. I
checked the threads all the way back to June and see that
a sizable number of people never get any reply - in fact,
it looks as if more people don't get a reply than do.

I realize that this forum is staffed by volunteers -
MVPs? Nevertheless, if Microsoft intends such forums to
be a viable and credible alternative to direct support
from non-volunteer MS reps, then a much more concerted
effort to answer questions needs to be in place. This of
course assumes that Microsoft really cares about customer
service, which is clearly a dubious assumption. It's
also not clear why Microsoft would associate itself with
this forum in the first place. It seems to be a very
hands off approach on their part - they're not investing
much in this "support" forum and with the very low
response rate it only further tarnishes the already
negative reputation of Microsoft "support".

In any event, whatever the criterion is for answering
support questions, it appears extremely arbitrary at
best. The problem isn't in allowing enough time for MVPs
or whomever to answer questions because a sizable number
of requests never get answered (take a look for
yourself) - and from a cursory glance this seems to be
the case more often than not.

If the problem is a lack of volunteers, then Microsoft
needs to recruit more volunteers; if it's a problem with
incompetent volunteers, then Microsoft needs to recruit
competent volunteers; if it's a problem with Microsoft's
lack of commitment to customer service then scrap the
forum altogether - what's the point. I think it's simply
Microsoft's way shirking their responsibility to provide
customer support while maintaining the (false) appearance
of actually providing customer service.

I suggest users of this forum go to www.virtualdr.com for
their Microsoft support questions. They may not be able
to solve your problem but at least they reply and make an
effort to help.
.

My guess is that you haven't received a response because
you don't have a problem, at least not a problem for
anyone who is not hopelessly pedantic and anal retentive.
Three to four seconds?? And then you stomp your feet and
whine like a little girl when no one leaps to answer you.

 

[PapaJohn \(MVP\)]

As I understand it, Microsoft simply provides the newsgroups for all of us
to use them for peer support. Nothing more, nothing less.

I didn't read your post as being unflattering to MVPs, just as a release of
your frustrations - something to do in those extra 3-4 seconds. If I knew
the answer to the issue, I would have posted one. Forums probably have a
higher response rate because they are filled with people just socializing.
I'm sure the AOL forums would have response rates close to 100%, but
socializing is different that providing good answers to technical issues. Is
a poor answer better than no answer? To some it is, because they are looking
for some sort of feedback, and perhaps sympathy. My personal preference is
to not respond if I don't know the answer or am just guessing.

I don't see it as a problem with Microsoft, or with MVPs, or with posters
and readers. We all do what we need to do or want to do, and go to wherever
we need or want to for our answers. I routinely use about 30 newsgroups and
3 forums just for my work with Movie Maker.

By the way, you posted your follow-up posts as responses - driving up the
response statistics. Maybe you should have done them as new posts.

I work with Microsoft people daily and find them more competent and caring
than those I've met or worked with in most companies. I also find the
knowledge within the broader community of users to be really high also. But,
computers are so complex that sometimes neither side knows the answer. And
Microsoft doesn't make the hardware, or do all the tweaking that us users
do.

Maybe it's your expectations that are at work here, even more than Microsoft
performance. Good luck finding an answer, but I wouldn't stop doing routine
software updates, even if they add another fraction of a second. They do
lots more good than harm.


PapaJohn

 

[Bob]

A classy, elegant and intelligent response Wislu
Plethora. Na na na na na, I know you are but what am I

 

[Bill Condi]

You beat me to it. Why does this forum exist?

 

[wazzup]

Bob,
I haven't had any replies to my questions either. Now
that you've gotten one, I'm jealous.

My question by the way (in case an MVP is reading) was, if
I don't meet the minimum requirements for MM2, can I still
upgrade from MM1 to MM2 as long as I don't try to do more
things than MM1 allowed. I'm hoping MM2 may fix a bug.
The bug itself is my other question that went unanswered,
and if I could figure that out I wouldn't be considering
MM2. Thanks.

 

[PapaJohn \(MVP\)]

Hi wazzup,

I don't know if a response to a response counts as a response.

Anyway - I've been running both MM1 and MM2 in parallel on an old Dell
laptop with 144 MB of RAM and a 266Mhz CPU (with 4 GB hard drive, in two
2-GB partitions). Been doing it for months now, as I like to bump into the
limits, but they both run fine on it. Just takes a bit longer to render
movies with the CPU being less. But rendering isn't a real time process, so
you can walk away and let it happen.

I was leery about even moving the old laptop from Windows 98 to XP, but it
runs better than it ever did.

PapaJohn

 

[Cari MS-MVP]

Not wanting to be called a cynic, but the 2 free incident calls for MS
software are 2 more than any version of Linux gets you!

Cari
www.coribright.com

 

[Lorne Smith]

Thanks PapaJohn,

The forums I referred to are not the socializing types
but the techy types like this one (e.g. VirtualDr.com).
I guess I do see it as a MS problem. They only provide
free support for 2 incidents and then you're left on your
own. This forum is not just an incidental luxury that MS
provides out of the goodness of its heart. It's part of
their "Microsoft Product Support Services." MS support
personel point people in this direction when thier 2
incidents are up and are not willing to pay MS for MS
mistakes.

This forum IS an incidental luxury that MS provides for free and is NOT part
of their support services... All they do is provide the space for users of
their products to help each other when they don't want to pay for support.
It states quite clearly in the ng FAQs that MS do not take part in
discussions here, or provide any assistance. You may from time to time get
an MS employee in here, but they're doing that off their own backs. NONE of
the people helping in here have volunteered with MS to do it, they do if
from their own free will and under no obligations. If no-one has answered
your question, then either no-one knows the answer, or it isn't really a
problem.

A Microsoft operating system is not just a piece of
software like other software. You need it for the
computer to work. And with their current monopoly, it
seems to me that pawning off MS software problems to
other non-microsoft venues is extremely irresponsible.

They don't paw it off on anybody. They provide a help centre. If you don't
want to pay them for support (which ALL other companies charge you for too),
then they point you to somewhere where you *may* get help. A lot more than
other companies do!

No other product in the computer industry or elsewhere is
able to get away with this. The fact that MS operating
systems are virtually it, MS should at least be
responsible in supoorting their product - 2 free
incidents is pathetic.

I don't know of any other companies in the industry that DO get away with
it. Agreed, 2 free incidents is pathetic, but it's also 2 more than you get
with most other software packages...

Incidentally, this particular newsgroup is not actually intended for
problems with Movie Maker 1 or 2, it's for problems with video cards or
maybe video playback. MM has it's own newsgroup and that where you'll find
most of the MM experts...

Lorne

 

[Wislu Plethora]

-----Original Message-----
A classy, elegant and intelligent response Wislu
Plethora. Na na na na na, I know you are but what am I

Thank you for confirming my initial impression.

 

[Bob]

Your welcome. And I didn't need confirmation in your
case, it was clear from the beginning - hence my response.

 

[Bob]

To answer the first part of your response - just look at
the upper right-hand corner of the web page. I read the
following: "Microsoft Product Support Services".

With regard to what other software companies do or do not
provide in terms of support. At minimum, most companies
provide one year of tech support at no charge.

And my original question had nothing to do with Movie
Maker, it had everything to do with my video
driver/display.

 

[Bob]

And you do know what a Linux user would say, right?

 

[Bob]

Yes, unfortunately I had to yell and complain to get
noticed. Also, this thread is getting far too much
attention. At this point, I suggest that people ignore
it and put their energies into answering questions
with "real" problems - as I've been told that my original
question was not. Ironically, this post is getting more
replies than any of the others. Perhaps someone could
close this thread?

Bob

 

[Lorne Smith]

I don't access these group's via the rather primitive CDA interface, however
as they are actually newsgroups residing on a newsserver and NOT a bulletin
board forum, they should more properly be accessed via a newsreader like
Outlook Express or one of the many others... This does NOT mean the the
newsgroup itself is part of the official support mechanism. At the very top
of the XP Newsgroups page it states the following:

"Windows XP Newsgroups are peer-to-peer forums in which you can find other
Windows XP users, seek help, and share your experiences to help others. You
can access newsgroups with your Web browser, or with a Network News Transfer
Protocol (NNTP)-based newsreader such as Outlook Express."

This can be seen from the following page:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/newsgroups/default.asp

I don't fancy trolling through MS's rather large site trying to find the
page you access the group from, perhaps you could provide the link so I can
see exactly what's on the page for my own information?

As for the free years tech support, some do, some don't. That's life
unfortunately...

As for your original question, I didn't see it, but I'll apologise for my
last comment as it was actually meant for an email I was also typing at the
same time... That'll teach me to watch which window I've got active at the
time!

Lorne

 

[Bob]

Well, in any case I think we partially agree on some of
the larger points.

Despite my rants against MS, I really do like their
products - XP is wonderful compared to 98, ME, etc. What
I don't like is their support policies; there's really no
recourse for consumers in this regard because short of
converting to Linux, Windows is it. And what really
ticks me off is that MS knows this and exploits this
advantage for all it's worth.

I'm not a big fan of Capitalism to begin with, but in
this case it's too bad that Capitalism, as envisioned by
Adam Smith et al, is absent when it comes to Microsoft.
However, it's a good lesson on the consequences to the
consumer of monopolies. I'm surprised they provide any
support.