AMD64 heat ... caution

[johns]

Thought I'd pass this on. Got in a new mobo bundle
today ( mobo, ram, cpu .. assembled and tested by
the vendor ). Built up the system, and got ready to
install the OS. The pc would run about 5 minutes,
and then just shut off. Happened about 3 times, and
I had checked connections, etc, so I looked at the
BIOS settings. I know there are several that if wrong,
will cause the AMD64 not to boot. Noticed that the
cpu idle temp was 55 degrees C , and the alarm was
set to 60 C. No way that will work. I pulled the
heat sink off, and noticed that the thermal compound
was flaky and cooked. Then I remembered. AMD
warns to always remove the thermal compound from
the heat sink and replace it with fresh, because it tends
to dry out, and the AMD64 will just cook it to a
dry mess at 55 C. New thermal compound will drop
the AMD64 to about 38 C idle, and that will slowly
creep up to mid to high 40s, but will hold well below
the 60 C BIOS alarm. You guys building the game
boxes take note of that.

johns

 

[John Doe]

Thought I'd pass this on. Got in a new mobo bundle
today ( mobo, ram, cpu .. assembled and tested by
the vendor ). Built up the system, and got ready to
install the OS. The pc would run about 5 minutes,
and then just shut off. Happened about 3 times, and
I had checked connections, etc, so I looked at the
BIOS settings. I know there are several that if wrong,
will cause the AMD64 not to boot. Noticed that the
cpu idle temp was 55 degrees C , and the alarm was
set to 60 C. No way that will work. I pulled the
heat sink off, and noticed that the thermal compound
was flaky and cooked. Then I remembered. AMD
warns to always remove the thermal compound from
the heat sink and replace it with fresh,

Do you have a citation for that johns?

because it tends to dry out, and the AMD64 will just cook it to a
dry mess at 55 C.

I don't think so.

New thermal compound will drop the AMD64 to about 38 C idle, and
that will slowly creep up to mid to high 40s, but will hold well
below the 60 C BIOS alarm. You guys building the game
boxes take note of that.

Speaking of CPU temperatures. Thanks to mistakes, my Athlon XP 2400+
has been up to maybe 120°C before it shut down the system, twice so
far. This last time I was looking at the temperature in the BIOS
thinking that can't be right. The Fahrenheit rating was so high it
said 1° off and on. Then the system shutdown... oops. The first time
was because I didn't make sure the CPU fan was plugged in and
running. The second time was because the heat sink clip was put on
the wrong way and apparently caused the heat sink to sit on the CPU
at an angle. Systems running OK now, as far as I can tell.

I guess Microstar International (MSI) forgot to include a CPU maximum
temperature in the BIOS of their new mainboards. I used it on my last
mainboards, figuring it might be a good idea.

 

[Snowy Day]

120 C?
bULLShit...

Do you have a citation for that johns?


I don't think so.


Speaking of CPU temperatures. Thanks to mistakes, my Athlon XP 2400+
has been up to maybe 120°C before it shut down the system, twice so
far. This last time I was looking at the temperature in the BIOS
thinking that can't be right. The Fahrenheit rating was so high it
said 1° off and on. Then the system shutdown... oops. The first time
was because I didn't make sure the CPU fan was plugged in and
running. The second time was because the heat sink clip was put on
the wrong way and apparently caused the heat sink to sit on the CPU
at an angle. Systems running OK now, as far as I can tell.

I guess Microstar International (MSI) forgot to include a CPU maximum
temperature in the BIOS of their new mainboards. I used it on my last
mainboards, figuring it might be a good idea.

 

[Will Dormann]

Thought I'd pass this on. Got in a new mobo bundle
today ( mobo, ram, cpu .. assembled and tested by
the vendor ). Built up the system, and got ready to
install the OS. The pc would run about 5 minutes,
and then just shut off. Happened about 3 times, and
I had checked connections, etc, so I looked at the
BIOS settings. I know there are several that if wrong,
will cause the AMD64 not to boot. Noticed that the
cpu idle temp was 55 degrees C , and the alarm was
set to 60 C. No way that will work. I pulled the
heat sink off, and noticed that the thermal compound
was flaky and cooked. Then I remembered. AMD
warns to always remove the thermal compound from
the heat sink and replace it with fresh, because it tends
to dry out, and the AMD64 will just cook it to a
dry mess at 55 C.

So what you're saying is this:
1) Your BIOS is set for too low a temperature.
2) You are using sub-par heatsink compound.

 

[Mac Cool]

NOTICE: PLEASE DON HIP WADERS NOW.

John Doe:

Thanks to mistakes, my Athlon XP 2400+ has been up to maybe 120øC
before it shut down the system, twice so far.

Oh man, at least put a warning at the top

 

[Rob Nicholson]

was flaky and cooked. Then I remembered. AMD

warns to always remove the thermal compound from

Do they? I can understand that you should replace the compound if you ever
remove the heatsink from the CPU but in a "box" CPU, then one would assume
the compound is intact for one installation.

Rob.

 

[johns]

Do you have a citation for that johns?

Yes. It is in the AMD64 manual that is generally included with
the Gigabyte mobos that I receive. I also belive it is mentioned
in the FAQs on the AMD64 site. Always replace that old goop
in a new assembly. They don't stress the heat problem. What
they stress is that the cooked goop will stick the cpu to the
heat sink, and you won't be able to remove the cpu from the
mobo because you can't get to the release clip which is hidden
under the stuck heat sink. I noticed exactly that when I tried to
pull the heat sink off this new mobo. It was stuck and took a
lot of careful wiggling side to side before it came loose. When
I got it out finally, cleaned, and replaced the stuff, the idle
temp immediatley dropped to 38 C, and I could install the OS
with no problem. The reason I had the vendor ( Mwave.com )
assemble this bundle was 1) Mwave .. and others .. will not
warantee the cpu or the ram if bought and assembled by an
outside tech. I've been getting grief from them over that lately.
Also, 2) I noticed that Kingston ddr400 ram does not fit well in
the newer Gigabyte mobos. I wanted them to assemble it so
that I did not wind up with that problem again. I don't know
what causes that fit problem, but if they can assemble it. Fine.
I did call Mwave and let them know that their techs need to
clean that heat sink goop ( as per AMD64 instructions ).
They agreed. That should have been done. I'm pretty sure
almost nobody is doing that, and they are going to be plenty
sorry they did not.

I don't think so.

Based on your experience as a computer tech? I have
nearly 40 years in this industry, and I know that this is a problem
because I checked things like this out with both AMD and Gigabyte.
I also noticed that a "google" brings this heat problem up all over.
I just happen to know the solution. You have to renew that glop.

at an angle. Systems running OK now, as far as I can tell.

You probably had it alright for the most part. Google says
for that AMD processor .. mostly the early ones, that
high reading is a BIOS and temp circuit goofup. Most of those
cpus say they are running in the high 50s, or even up to 65 C.
That would destroy them if it were true. Without the fan running
your mobo should have been raising hell, or it should have been
shutting down quickly. At any rate, I do this every day, so I
tend not to make those mistakes ( anymore ).

I guess Microstar International (MSI) forgot to include a CPU maximum
temperature in the BIOS of their new mainboards. I used it on my last
mainboards, figuring it might be a good idea.

I haven't seen anybody be truthful about it. They will put cutoff
warning temps, but if you call the vendors, or the manufacturers
they will bs you all over the place. I think it is best to low-end
it as much as you are able with the BIOS settings and good
heat sink assembly, and if it runs .. it must be right ??? In my
case, I can't afford to have these things coming back in here
because I screwed up.

johns

 

[johns]

120 C?
bULLShit...

It happens. It is a balled up temp circuit that some of the mobo
manufacturers say they are going to fix someday. That is the
real BS. I think they fixed it on the newer mobos, but not for
that cpu.

johns

 

[johns]

So what you're saying is this:
1) Your BIOS is set for too low a temperature.
2) You are using sub-par heatsink compound.

No. If you will read what I wrote, the vendor did an assemble
and test of the mobo bundle BEFORE they sent it to me. When
I got it, it ran, but would shut down after 5 min. The cause of
that ( which is warned against by AMD64 support ) is not
cleaning the old thermal compound off those heatsinks, and
replacing it with new thermal compound. The heatsinks have
been sitting on the shelf since manufacturing .. and the goop
tends to dry out a bit. On earlier CPUs, that was not such
a big deal because they simply do not put out that much heat.
The AMD64 does, and will cook that old stuff to a glue,
and you will not be able to remove the stuck heatsink.

I'm using that silver based stuff. It works fine, and will
drop the idle temp of the AMD64 to 38 C, and the
working temp to about 45 C. Also, if for some reason,
you need to remove the heat sink ( failed fan ), it will
come up easily because the AMD64 never gets to 55 C
where it will turn the stuff to glue. Note: older processors
have a very small contact surface, so this is not such a
problem. The AMD64 has a huge contact surface, and
that will glue the heat sink to the cpu at higher temps.
You will break the socket trying to remove it.

johns

 

[John Doe]

NOTICE: PLEASE DON HIP WADERS NOW.

John Doe:

Oh man, at least put a warning at the top

According to the data sheet, the maximum die temperature is 85
or 90°C.

I wrote what I saw, not what I know as fact. Seems possible to me,
although I was in disbelief until the system shut down.

 

[John Doe]

I think the snipped context had to do with 55°C causing thermal
grease to break down.

Based on your experience as a computer tech?

Also based on my ability to read data sheets and put 2 & 2 together.
The 55°C is a normal operating temperature, at least for my CPU.
Thermal grease will have specifications as well, that's why I ask for
citations.

I have nearly 40 years in this industry,

I guess that would make johns a 60 year old "ice figure skater".

Johns tends to let creative writing take hold, without notifying the
reader of his intent to amuse, for your information.

 

[petermcmillan_uk]

No. If you will read what I wrote, the vendor did an assemble
and test of the mobo bundle BEFORE they sent it to me. When
I got it, it ran, but would shut down after 5 min. The cause of
that ( which is warned against by AMD64 support ) is not
cleaning the old thermal compound off those heatsinks, and
replacing it with new thermal compound. The heatsinks have
been sitting on the shelf since manufacturing .. and the goop
tends to dry out a bit. On earlier CPUs, that was not such
a big deal because they simply do not put out that much heat.
The AMD64 does, and will cook that old stuff to a glue,
and you will not be able to remove the stuck heatsink.

I'm using that silver based stuff. It works fine, and will
drop the idle temp of the AMD64 to 38 C, and the
working temp to about 45 C. Also, if for some reason,
you need to remove the heat sink ( failed fan ), it will
come up easily because the AMD64 never gets to 55 C
where it will turn the stuff to glue. Note: older processors
have a very small contact surface, so this is not such a
problem. The AMD64 has a huge contact surface, and
that will glue the heat sink to the cpu at higher temps.
You will break the socket trying to remove it.

johns

After the stuff is built the machine won't sit on the shelf for more
than a few weeks, and thermal compound should last more than a couple
of weeks. My CPU has had the same thermal compound for
more than a year and there have been no significant changes in the
temperatures!