AMD 64 ::: is this a bad time to buy a PC?

[Robert TV]

Hello,

I was browsing my through posts here in this newsgroup, eventually made my
way to the AMD forums. You see, I am buying a new PC in the nest few days. I
am terrified by all the users out there having problems with the new AMD 64
bit CPU's and Windows XP. Here are some of the more frequent and dire points
I read up upon:

1) Memory issues with AMD 64. Apparently many are saying you need PC3500
MINIMUM for your system to run stable.

2) The AMD 64 is power hungry and you need a high powered PSU ... like
around 480Watt.

3) Windows XP is not running correctly, many crashes and system reboots when
you have an AMD 64 and Service Pack 2.

The above topics are being experienced by a large amount of users ... and
I'm starting to wonder if I should hold back on buying a new PC for now. I
plan to spend a fair amount of money on it and I don't want to buy a lemon.

I would be very interested in hearing POSITIVE feedback on similar systems.
I realize that support forums are for people who have problems and not those
who's systems are running fine, and as such, things will always seem worse
than they are. But please, is anyone having good experiences with an AMD 64?
Mine will be the 3500+. Here is the system I planned to build:

MSI K8T Neo2-FSR VIA K8T800
Thermaltake 420w power supply
AMD 64 3500+
1gig Samsung PC3200 RAM ::: 2 sticks of 512 set up in dual channel mode
ATI X800 video card
SB Audigy 2
WD740 74gig HDD
LG DVD writer

I would rather wait weeks or months to buy a new PC as long as the bugs get
worked out, if they do infact exist. I would also like to ask for
recommendations as far as hardware goes .... IE ... will different ram run
better ... will a certain PSU be best ... etc etc. And also i would be
interesting in learn if any of you AMD 64 bit owners are having good
experiences with Windows XP SP2. Thank you all very much.

Robert

 

[Miss Perspicacia Tick]

Hello,

I was browsing my through posts here in this newsgroup, eventually
made my way to the AMD forums. You see, I am buying a new PC in the
nest few days. I am terrified by all the users out there having
problems with the new AMD 64 bit CPU's and Windows XP. Here are some
of the more frequent and dire points I read up upon:

1) Memory issues with AMD 64. Apparently many are saying you need
PC3500 MINIMUM for your system to run stable.

Complete bollocks.Running 3200 here and there's absolutely no stability
issues.Also, a 64-bit system *requires* EEC/registered RAM and, AFAIK, 3200
is the highest rated (3500 was discontinued some time ago). This is taken
from OCZ's site.

2) The AMD 64 is power hungry and you need a high powered PSU ... like
around 480Watt.

Unless you're planning an FX-based system (which I can see you're not) then
that's probably overkill. I'm running an FX-55 with a Tagan 450W and I've
not had any issues.

3) Windows XP is not running correctly, many crashes and system
reboots when you have an AMD 64 and Service Pack 2.

Again, complete crap. Running XP Pro with SP2 RTM (released last Friday) and
it's as solid as granite No problems whatsoever.

The above topics are being experienced by a large amount of users ...

Really?! What "users" are these, pray? I have a friend who works for
Chillblast and he's built 100s of AMD64 systems (both ordinary and FX) and
he's yet to receive a single complaint (in fact, he built mine).

and I'm starting to wonder if I should hold back on buying a new PC
for now. I plan to spend a fair amount of money on it and I don't
want to buy a lemon.

I would be very interested in hearing POSITIVE feedback on similar
systems. I realize that support forums are for people who have
problems and not those who's systems are running fine, and as such,
things will always seem worse than they are. But please, is anyone
having good experiences with an AMD 64? Mine will be the 3500+. Here
is the system I planned to build:

MSI K8T Neo2-FSR VIA K8T800

I'd go with an ASUS A8V Deluxe
(http://uk.asus.com/products/mb/socket939/a8v-d/overview.htm)

Thermaltake 420w power supply

I'd go with the Tagan 480W (Tagan TG480-U01 480W Silent PSU). It's extremely
quiet and very efficient.

AMD 64 3500+
1gig Samsung PC3200 RAM ::: 2 sticks of 512 set up in dual channel
mode

OCZ - runs cooler and is a good investment if you plan to overclock - a
64-bit system requires registered RAM.

ATI X800 video card

Good choice.

SB Audigy 2

Go with the ZS Platinum (Pro). It's fantastic.

WD740 74gig HDD

A Raptor. Again, excellent decision. Just make sure you have the relevant
driver to hand *BEFORE* you attempt to install Windows. May I recommend
strongly you also purchase a back up drive (I have a WD250). 74GB isn't
nearly enough for storage, I use it merely as a boot drive and for
speed-critical applications (such as Photoshop).

LG DVD writer

Is this (http://www.chillblast.com/customer/product.php?productid=16459) the
one? It's good, but I love my Plextor
(http://www.chillblast.com/customer/product.php?productid=16193)

I would rather wait weeks or months to buy a new PC as long as the
bugs get worked out, if they do infact exist. I would also like to
ask for recommendations as far as hardware goes .... IE ... will
different ram run better ... will a certain PSU be best ... etc etc.
And also i would be interesting in learn if any of you AMD 64 bit
owners are having good experiences with Windows XP SP2. Thank you all
very much.

Robert

There will be an AMD 64-bit version of Windows XP, but it will be available
to system builders only. It will *NOT* be available retail. I have been dual
booting with the Beta, and it's been rock solid.

Don't believe all you hear - SP2 has only been around four days, and the
issues that are arising are of the PEBCAK variety. There are no issues
specifically relating to 64-bit systems.

 

[Cuzman]

" 1) Memory issues with AMD 64. Apparently many are saying you need PC3500
MINIMUM for your system to run stable. "

Some skt754 chipsets have been picky with some PC3200 RAM. I'm not sure
about skt 939 though.


" 2) The AMD 64 is power hungry and you need a high powered PSU ... like
around 480Watt. "

Any new system you build today would be better off with a 'respected' PSU
that can output over 400W max power. Given that you wish to put an ATI x800
and a 10,000rpm HDD in your system, then I would definitely opt for
something of that ilk.


" 3) Windows XP is not running correctly, many crashes and system reboots
when you have an AMD 64 and Service Pack 2. "

Not too sure about that one.


" Here is the system I planned to build.... "

1. Do you mean the K8T Neo2-FIR...? If I was building a skt939 system
today, then it would be between that and the Asus AV8 Deluxe.

2. Thermaltake make good power supplies, but you might not like it if it
starts running at 48dBA permanently. I've heard that some do, depending on
the rest of the system cooling set-up.

3. Is the skt939 3800+ worth its current price? Probably not, so the 3500+
obviously seems the best choice.

4. The K8T Neo2-FIR's Core Center has automatic overclocking abilities, so
I would definitely get PC3500 RAM at the very least. I could only merit
PC3200 RAM if you want very low latency levels that higher RAM doesn't
currently offer, but then it's six of one and half-a-dozen of the other.

5. There are currently no retail PCI-E motherboards for Athlon64. We still
haven't stretched AGP8x to its limits (or barely AGP4x for that matter), but
the question of upgrade potential does concern me. If I was to build a
similar system to yours, would I be frustrated if all newly-released
high-end cards are PCI-E only in 18 months time? Is it the right time to
build a skt939 gaming system because of this PCI-E issue? Your guess is as
good as mine.

6. You can't really go wrong with a SB Audigy 2, as long as you have the
speaker set-up to harness its potential.

7. I'd go for the 10,000rpm WD740 to run the OS from, but will it be enough
to keep everything you need on? Will an additional (larger) 7,200rpm drive
be needed?

8. What can I say about DVD writers? If they work at respectable speeds
and offer the formats you need, then you're happy. I would read some
retailer reviews to see how many RMAs there have been.

 

[Cuzman]

" Also, a 64-bit system *requires* EEC/registered RAM... ...a 64-bit
system requires registered RAM. "

Wrong. The chipsets on the skt754 FX required it, but neither the skt939
Athlon64 or FX needs it.


" There will be an AMD 64-bit version of Windows XP, but it will be
available to system builders only. It will *NOT* be available retail. "

Well, Microsoft are definitely going to release a 64-bit desktop operating
system (eventually). Whether it will be retail-labelled *XP*, *Longhorn* or
whatever is something only they will know. What do you mean by *available
to system builders only*...? Only available with pre-built systems a la
Media Center? Maybe you've been hearing too many strange rumours, adding 2
+ 2, and getting 5.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:42:01 +0100, Miss Perspicacia Tick wrote:

The Opterons and the original 940 pin Athlon 64FX require registered
DIMMs, the Athlon 64s (754 amd 939 pin) use unbuffered DIMMs. Registered
DIMMs are more reliable than unbuffered but you won't have any problems if
you either limit the number of DIMMs on a bus to 2 if you are running
PC3200 or use PC2700 if you want 3 DIMMs on a bus (754 only). The 939 pin
part uses two DIMMs per bus so there should be any problem there.

Don't know about XP but 64 bit Linux runs fine. I'm using Mandrake 10.0
AMD64 version.

 

[JK]

Hello,

I was browsing my through posts here in this newsgroup, eventually made my
way to the AMD forums. You see, I am buying a new PC in the nest few days. I
am terrified by all the users out there having problems with the new AMD 64
bit CPU's and Windows XP. Here are some of the more frequent and dire points
I read up upon:

1) Memory issues with AMD 64. Apparently many are saying you need PC3500
MINIMUM for your system to run stable.
Nonsense.



2) The AMD 64 is power hungry and you need a high powered PSU ... like
around 480Watt.

No, it needs a decent quality 350 watt power supply for a mid level system.
For systems with a few hard drives or a very high end video card, a power
supply over 350 watts is suggested.

3) Windows XP is not running correctly,
False

many crashes and system reboots when
you have an AMD 64 and Service Pack 2.
Nonsense



The above topics are being experienced by a large amount of users ..

Nonsense. Where did you see that?

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

" Also, a 64-bit system *requires* EEC/registered RAM... ...a 64-bit
system requires registered RAM. "

Wrong. The chipsets on the skt754 FX required it, but neither the skt939
Athlon64 or FX needs it.


" There will be an AMD 64-bit version of Windows XP, but it will be
available to system builders only. It will *NOT* be available retail. "

Well, Microsoft are definitely going to release a 64-bit desktop operating
system (eventually). Whether it will be retail-labelled *XP*, *Longhorn* or
whatever is something only they will know. What do you mean by *available
to system builders only*...? Only available with pre-built systems a la
Media Center? Maybe you've been hearing too many strange rumours, adding 2
+ 2, and getting 5.

What system builders only means is that there isn't going to be a retail
package available. However there will be an OEM version available which
will require you to buy it with a new piece of hardware. The definition of
hardware is very loose, a $5 ethernet cable qualifies. OEM packs are
cheaper then retail anyway but they don't come with any support. The 64
bit version of Windows has slipped again, it's now slated for the first
half of next year which means June 30th (more likely June 87th). From a
practical point of view there aren't a lot of advantages for a desktop
user to running a 64 bit version of XP (BTW it's Server 2003 that's slated
for 1h next year not XP Pro). Regular XP seems to work fine (although I
haven't used it enough to know if there are any real problems, I
primarily use Linux). If you want a true 64 bit OS now then your only
choice is Linux which has had support for the AMD64 since the day the A64
was launched. I'm using Mandrake 10.0 for AMD64, works great. XP users
will have to be satisifed with betas for another year.

 

[Matt]

Hello,

I was browsing my through posts here in this newsgroup, eventually made my
way to the AMD forums. You see, I am buying a new PC in the nest few days. I
am terrified by all the users out there having problems with the new AMD 64
bit CPU's and Windows XP. Here are some of the more frequent and dire points
I read up upon:

Just what forums and posts have claimed these "frequent and dire points"?

 

[Miss Perspicacia Tick]

What system builders only means is that there isn't going to be a
retail package available. However there will be an OEM version
available which will require you to buy it with a new piece of
hardware.

Sorry, but that is completely false.System builders only means exactly what
it says. Just like the Media Centre Edition, which was only available with a
Media Centre-enabled system, the 64-bit version (just like its Itanium
counterpart) will only be available with a new system - it will *NOT* be
available in any other way. You will *NOT* be able to purchase it with any
item of hardware - other than a full system.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Sorry, but that is completely false.System builders only means exactly what
it says. Just like the Media Centre Edition, which was only available with a
Media Centre-enabled system, the 64-bit version (just like its Itanium
counterpart) will only be available with a new system - it will *NOT* be
available in any other way. You will *NOT* be able to purchase it with any
item of hardware - other than a full system.

It's a year a away, no one can say what Microsoft is going to do a year
from now, not even Microsoft. I can't imagine that they won't offer it to
the general public in some form or another. By mid 2005 there will be
millions of A64 systems out there, that's to big a market for them to
ignore.

 

[JK]

It will be available in OEM form, which probably means a single component of
hardware must be bought with it.

You will *NOT* be able to purchase it with any

It's a year a away,

Perhaps closer to 6 months away?

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

Perhaps closer to 6 months away?

Microsoft said 1st half of 2005 not 1st quarter. If they were planning on
March they would have said Q1. H1 means June 30 if they don't slip again
(what are the chances of that happening?). The likely date is a year from
now.

 

[JK]

H1 means between Jan1 and June 30. Half way between the two is March 31,
which is closer to 6 months away than a year away.

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

H1 means between Jan1 and June 30. Half way between the two is March 31,
which is closer to 6 months away than a year away.

When a company, any company not just Microsoft, gives a quarter or a half
date they mean 11:59pm of the last day of the period. If their target was
March they would have said Q1, they didn't, they said H1. With their track
record they won't meet the H1 date either, it's more likely July or Aug.

 

[Stephen Gordon]

[SNIP]

Nonsense.

[SNIP]

No, it needs a decent quality 350 watt power supply for a mid level system.
For systems with a few hard drives or a very high end video card, a power
supply over 350 watts is suggested.

[SNIP]

False

[SNIP]

Nonsense

[SNIP]

Nonsense. Where did you see that?

Nice in depth responses there.

-Steve