AM3 CPU fan


S

Susan Miller

I've never had a case fan as loud as the stock CPU fan that came with
my new processor (bought for the new motherboard mentioned in my
flurry of earlier posts).

It's horrible. It lets out a LOUD, whooshing noise as well as a high
pitched "whine". The whole family is sitting around grousing about it
and two of them have ended up with headaches.

I'd appreciate suggestions, I've never gone with a non-stock fan
before.

Issues: not much clearance in my case (it's a HTPC so the case is flat
without much height). Something low profile would be good.

Also, something with several variable speeds. This one only seems to
have two speeds when on - barely tolerable and headache-inducing
whining loud.

Having just gone through the pain of taking out my old motherboard and
screwing in the new one, I'd prefer it if I didn't have to disassemble
the whole thing in order to install it with special mounting brackets
that go in under the motherboard.

Since the the actual heatsink seems to be fine, is there a way to
replace just the fan part with a QUIET fan?


Sue
 
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M

Mike Easter

Susan said:
Since the the actual heatsink seems to be fine, is there a way to
replace just the fan part with a QUIET fan?

If you have a really good heatsink, the fan doesn't have to go nearly so
fast. The better the fan and the slower the fan the quieter the fan.

The better heatsink with a good quiet fan, then the CPU is cooler, which
is also better.

In a perfect world, everything would be quiet and cool :)
 
S

SteveH

Susan said:
I've never had a case fan as loud as the stock CPU fan that came with
my new processor (bought for the new motherboard mentioned in my
flurry of earlier posts).

It's horrible. It lets out a LOUD, whooshing noise as well as a high
pitched "whine". The whole family is sitting around grousing about it
and two of them have ended up with headaches.

I'd appreciate suggestions, I've never gone with a non-stock fan
before.

Issues: not much clearance in my case (it's a HTPC so the case is flat
without much height). Something low profile would be good.

Also, something with several variable speeds. This one only seems to
have two speeds when on - barely tolerable and headache-inducing
whining loud.

Having just gone through the pain of taking out my old motherboard and
screwing in the new one, I'd prefer it if I didn't have to disassemble
the whole thing in order to install it with special mounting brackets
that go in under the motherboard.

Since the the actual heatsink seems to be fine, is there a way to
replace just the fan part with a QUIET fan?


Sue

There you go:

http://www.arctic-cooling.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_43&mID=305

Cool, quiet, and not too expensive.
I've put a fair few Freezer 7's in PC's for people - no dissatisfied
customers yet.
 
S

Susan Miller

If you have a really good heatsink, the fan doesn't have to go nearly so
fast. The better the fan and the slower the fan the quieter the fan.

The better heatsink with a good quiet fan, then the CPU is cooler, which
is also better.

In a perfect world, everything would be quiet and cool :)

Thanks for your reply (and Steve's as well). His recommendation won't
work only because it's still a bit too tall. I measured the clearance
in my case and it's about 88 mm (give or take). I checked the low
profile Arctic cooler - it would fit but the reviews concerned me.

I've spent the past several hours web browsing for heat sinks and cpu
fans and come to realize a few things.

The heatsink and the fan are actually two different items. I suppose
that is what you were trying to explain to me. I want a good heat sink
to dissapate the heat and then effectively what the fan should be
doing is help move the the hot air around the case, I've always
thought the heatsink was just a lump of metal the fan sat on while it
(the fan) cooled the CPU. After reading I've learned the heatsink
really does all the work.

I'm almost settled on the Scythe Shuriken Rev.B, I couldn't find a bad
review of it at multiple sites other than one person at Newegg saying
it was noisy only at certain speeds. I suspect they got a bad fan.

I did find a comment from a different retailer saying they didn't
recommend it was used on CPUs higher than 95w. The merchant rep (Quiet
PC) didn't say why they didn't recommend it above 95w, just that was a
possible explanation why someone was having trouble with it.

So, before I buy something that may not work properly, how do I know
what wattage CPU a heatsink will be good with?

I could use the Big Shuriken but that may be too wide (I'm not sure
that I have 120mm free space around my CPU.

Sue
 
J

John Doe

Susan Miller said:
The heatsink and the fan are actually two different items.

Yes, but they are matched and sold together.
I suppose that is what you were trying to explain to me. I want
a good heat sink to dissapate the heat and then effectively what
the fan should be doing is help move the the hot air around the
case,

It blows air through the heatsink fins, that cools the heatsink.
Without quickly removing the hot air from between the heatsink
fins, the heatsink could not transfer enough heat away from the
CPU.
I've always thought the heatsink was just a lump of metal the
fan sat on while it (the fan) cooled the CPU. After reading I've
learned the heatsink really does all the work.

Removing the fan would prove otherwise.

Some CPU coolers include heat pipes that efficiently and/or
quickly move heat from the CPU to the heatsink fins. But the fan
is still necessary to quickly remove the hot air from between the
heatsink fins.

The bigger and better the heatsink, the less airflow you need, but
a CPU generates so much heat that a fan is necessary (of course
there could be some exception).
I could use the Big Shuriken but that may be too wide (I'm not
sure that I have 120mm free space around my CPU.

The quieter, the bigger.
 
P

Paul

Susan said:
Thanks for your reply (and Steve's as well). His recommendation won't
work only because it's still a bit too tall. I measured the clearance
in my case and it's about 88 mm (give or take). I checked the low
profile Arctic cooler - it would fit but the reviews concerned me.

I've spent the past several hours web browsing for heat sinks and cpu
fans and come to realize a few things.

The heatsink and the fan are actually two different items. I suppose
that is what you were trying to explain to me. I want a good heat sink
to dissapate the heat and then effectively what the fan should be
doing is help move the the hot air around the case, I've always
thought the heatsink was just a lump of metal the fan sat on while it
(the fan) cooled the CPU. After reading I've learned the heatsink
really does all the work.

I'm almost settled on the Scythe Shuriken Rev.B, I couldn't find a bad
review of it at multiple sites other than one person at Newegg saying
it was noisy only at certain speeds. I suspect they got a bad fan.

I did find a comment from a different retailer saying they didn't
recommend it was used on CPUs higher than 95w. The merchant rep (Quiet
PC) didn't say why they didn't recommend it above 95w, just that was a
possible explanation why someone was having trouble with it.

So, before I buy something that may not work properly, how do I know
what wattage CPU a heatsink will be good with?

I could use the Big Shuriken but that may be too wide (I'm not sure
that I have 120mm free space around my CPU.

Sue

How about this one. Theta_R is about 0.2C/W so this is a bit better than
some of the stock coolers might be. It uses a thin fan, and you can change
out the fan and use a regular fan if you want to (like a regular 25mm high
fan). The measured noise is pretty good (you have to compare its position
in the list of other coolers, to decide that - you can't rely on an absolute
number as everyone measures noise differently).

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2425

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9...M3_939_940_754_SCBSK-1000.html?tl=g48c369s881

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/048/scbsk1000_detail.html

"Optional Fan Mounting
Optional 92 mm fan attachment is possible by using the included fan clip
for more performance."

I couldn't find a manual. It probably clips onto the center tab
of the CPU socket on each side.

HTH,
Paul
 
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S

SteveH

John said:
The Freezer 7 Pro uses a 92mm fan that stands on its side.

Ah, didn't read that bit. However Arctic cooling do make a low profile quiet
cooler I believe.
 
S

Susan Miller

Ah, didn't read that bit. However Arctic cooling do make a low profile quiet
cooler I believe.

I followed the links off the Artic page. One of the reviewers of the
low profile model advised they had to remove metal off the bottom of
the heat sink to make it level.

Sue
 
P

peter

its called lapping... usually persons who Overclock do this.
They want 100% contact. The Thermal Paste that is placed between the heatsink
and the CPU usually cover minor imperfections....and most heatsinks have those.
My Thermalright heatsink consistently places in the top 3 in cooling performance
and each review states that the bottom is not level... Go figure!!

peter
 
S

Susan Miller

its called lapping... usually persons who Overclock do this.
They want 100% contact. The Thermal Paste that is placed between the heatsink
and the CPU usually cover minor imperfections....and most heatsinks have those.
My Thermalright heatsink consistently places in the top 3 in cooling performance
and each review states that the bottom is not level... Go figure!!

peter

It wasn't sanded down to polish it. They ground metal off the bottom.
Before they removed the metal off the bottom it cooled worse than a
stock unit.

I know the really obsessive cooling types will polish heatsinks until
they're reflective. That wasn't what they did in this review.

I have to figure something out soon though, because the fan sound is
too annoying for words.


Sue
 
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S

Susan Miller

It wasn't sanded down to polish it. They ground metal off the bottom.
Before they removed the metal off the bottom it cooled worse than a
stock unit.

I know the really obsessive cooling types will polish heatsinks until
they're reflective. That wasn't what they did in this review.

I have to figure something out soon though, because the fan sound is
too annoying for words.


Sue

Here are further negative reviews (at newegg) for the Arctic
low-profile cooler:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186019

I don't want to be difficult and I'm willing to google/read on my own.
I'm just not sure how to find a low-profile AM3 cooler that's easy to
mount, and somewhat compact in size (due to having to fit in a HTPC
case).

Every time I think I find a low profile AM3 cooler, it doesn't
actually cool better than a stock cooler, or it's so wide it blocks
off RAM slots, or it turns out to be really heavy, or it takes a
surgeon's precision to attach it to the MB.

Sue
 
F

Flasherly

Here are further negative reviews (at newegg) for the Arctic
low-profile cooler:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186019

I don't want to be difficult and I'm willing to google/read on my own.
I'm just not sure how to find a low-profile AM3 cooler that's easy to
mount, and somewhat compact in size (due to having to fit in a HTPC
case).

Every time I think I find a low profile AM3 cooler, it doesn't
actually cool better than a stock cooler, or it's so wide it blocks
off RAM slots, or it turns out to be really heavy, or it takes a
surgeon's precision to attach it to the MB.

Sue

Figure a 80mm fan at the lower or among extant standard fan sizings.
Have one, orange and may be a Thermalright fan, that's simply
adjustable -- there's added control knob connected to the CPU fan to
twist away at your noise tolerance levels (2000-5400rpm would be
within orders, 2000 being a whisper to your ear). Knowing the heat
and performance characteristics of the CPU would be my final
determinate: An adequate fan being one that does the job without the
computer randomly rebooting during stress. I used it for awhile,
anyway, on an all-aluminum Antec LanBoy for venting tunneled-air in or
out to the CPU after I'd drilled a rather large hole precisely into
the plexiglass side. No cracks in the the plastic radiating off the
hole yet is precise, right? End cooling effect, actual benefits
gained, wasn't worth writing home to mom about in my estimation: Leave
good engineering/planning airflow characteristics to the pros
designing good equipment, instead of randomly attempting to drill
holes in oceans of air. Then, again, I still also have that same speed
variability on the actual heatsink, itself. Bit hard to describe the
heatsink, unusual at the time -- size of a grapefruit with a
permanently incorporated fan, both being the squirrel cage-type,
cylindrical, with the fan inside a mass of copper fins. Precision
tooled equipment or poorly designed equipment for certain exasperation
go hand in hand with having cake and eating it;- something along the
classic line, you want it good and cheap? Also right - there's seldom
getting away from specs/reviews/rankings - even at important elemental
levels;-- only don't expect lapping, because it got lost on the
wayside somewhere along when topnotch thermal paste compounds began to
augment a burgeoning, better-than-factory aftermarket of OEM CPU
heatsinks.
 
S

Susan Miller

It wasn't sanded down to polish it. They ground metal off the bottom.
Before they removed the metal off the bottom it cooled worse than a
stock unit.

I know the really obsessive cooling types will polish heatsinks until
they're reflective. That wasn't what they did in this review.

I have to figure something out soon though, because the fan sound is
too annoying for words.


Sue

I finally settled on: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 Copper
Core/Aluminum Fin Heat Sink & Fan w/4-Pin Connector for Intel & AMD
CPUs

It literally _JUST BARELY_ fits in my case. The copper tips at the top
touch the case cover. But, it does fit. I may remove it at some point
and see if I can use a hacksaw to cut the copper tips off. Would this
cause any problems (does it help cooling to have the copper tips
extend past the last fin)?

On the plus side, it's whisper-quiet. If the TV is off and the PC is
on, we now just hear a quiet purring noise (I think that's my power
supply fan). If the TV is on, we can't hear the PC at all.

Thanks again for the explanation of heatsinks and why they matter. It
was very informative reading.

Sue
 
P

peter

That is a heatpipe cooler and usually in such a cooler there is a liquid inside
the Copper Pipes. The liquid heats and rises ,cools and fall and the cycle
begins again.
So cutting the tips off is not advisable

peter
 
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P

Paul

Susan said:
I finally settled on: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 Copper
Core/Aluminum Fin Heat Sink & Fan w/4-Pin Connector for Intel & AMD
CPUs

It literally _JUST BARELY_ fits in my case. The copper tips at the top
touch the case cover. But, it does fit. I may remove it at some point
and see if I can use a hacksaw to cut the copper tips off. Would this
cause any problems (does it help cooling to have the copper tips
extend past the last fin)?

On the plus side, it's whisper-quiet. If the TV is off and the PC is
on, we now just hear a quiet purring noise (I think that's my power
supply fan). If the TV is on, we can't hear the PC at all.

Thanks again for the explanation of heatsinks and why they matter. It
was very informative reading.

Sue

A heat pipe is a "sealed system". Cutting the tip off the end, would break
the seal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heatpipe

Further picture of a heatpipe here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heat_Pipe_Mechanism.png

The instant you cut into a heatpipe, the ability to move heat is
reduced by a factor of 100 to 1000. In other words, your heatsink
becomes useless. Ahh... don't do that.

A good reason for having more than one heatpipe on a cooler assembly,
is for redundancy. There have been failures on CPU coolers before,
where the fluid has leaked out of one of the pipes. (All it takes
is a tiny pinhole in the pipe, for this to happen gradually.) So
if a heatsink comes with two or four pipes, this is good from a
redundancy perspective. The remaining pipes carry the load.

Once in a great while, a cooler is shipped to a customer, where
none of the heatpipes are working. And this shows a lack of
quality control, on the part of the manufacturer. I doubt very many
of them, test that the heat pipes are functional, before shipping
the product.

Heat pipes do not contain a large amount of fluid. Only a drop or two
is inside there. But that quantity is very important to the ability to
move heat. The copper tube itself is virtually useless at conducting
heat, compared to the power of the fluid. A similar mechanism is at
work on your central air conditioner, and you can see how much heat
that moves, through a relatively small pipe. And you'd never consider
cutting the pipe on the air conditioner with a hacksaw :)

Paul
 
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T

ToolPackinMama

I've never had a case fan as loud as the stock CPU fan that came with
my new processor (bought for the new motherboard mentioned in my
flurry of earlier posts).

It's horrible. It lets out a LOUD, whooshing noise as well as a high
pitched "whine". The whole family is sitting around grousing about it
and two of them have ended up with headaches.

I'd appreciate suggestions, I've never gone with a non-stock fan
before.

I am surprised at your report. I just built an AM3 system, used the
stock heatsink/fan, and I am getting no noise from it at all. Mine is
silent as far as I can tell.

I have a large case fan in front that I hear, and that is still the same
after my upgrade.

It might be good to check if any wire is touching it and vibrating - or
if the label on it is loose - or something like that.
 
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