All System Restore Points Don't Restore

[Jay]

Win XP Pro (fully licensed)

Problem:

1. Windows update - 3 security updates on 3/13/09
2. During the night while idle, BSOD - IRQL_NOT_LESS _OR_EQUAL
3. Restarted manually after I woke in the morning
4. Computer idle and 2-3 hrs later BSOD again same error
5. Attempted system restore from apparent valid dates (bold) - System
Checkpoints

3/1/09 - all restore points to 3/14/09 - Restore Incomplete

What's the point of "System Restore" if it doesn't work? No clue as to
why it doesn't work.

Any ideas on both issues - the BSOD and the System Restore?

Thanks, Jay

 

[SC Tom]

Usually #2 is a hardware driver problem. Have you installed anything new
lately?

Have you run an antivirus/malware program lately (with updated definitions)?

Do you have a firewall running when trying to do a System Restore? If so,
pull your internet connection and shut down the firewall. Disable it until
the restore has finished, then re-enable it.

If system restore still doesn't run, you can boot into safe mode with
command prompt and run c:\windows\system32\restore\rstrui.exe. This has
worked for me in the past when all else failed.

SC Tom

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24:12 PM, and on a
whim, Jay pounded out on the keyboard:

Win XP Pro (fully licensed)

Problem:

1. Windows update - 3 security updates on 3/13/09
2. During the night while idle, BSOD - IRQL_NOT_LESS _OR_EQUAL
3. Restarted manually after I woke in the morning
4. Computer idle and 2-3 hrs later BSOD again same error
5. Attempted system restore from apparent valid dates (bold) - System
Checkpoints

3/1/09 - all restore points to 3/14/09 - Restore Incomplete

What's the point of "System Restore" if it doesn't work? No clue as to
why it doesn't work.

Any ideas on both issues - the BSOD and the System Restore?

Thanks, Jay

Hi Jay,

I just had a long discussion in another thread regarding the uselessness
of SR. I have personally experienced its failure multiple times and
also have numerous client machines where it also has failed. The best
way to protect yourself is having a recent backup you can restore from.
Don't depend on SR.

There are things you can do to prevent it from happening, but my main
argument is, it's too late at that point.
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/srfail.html

The BSOD would require more info from the screen to interpret closer to
what may have happened.

Terry R.

 

[Jay]

On 14.03.2009 17:34, SC Tom wrote:

--- Original Message ---

Usually #2 is a hardware driver problem. Have you installed anything new
lately?

No, not in many months

Have you run an antivirus/malware program lately (with updated
definitions)?

Yes, and now that you mention it, when rebooting the first time after
the BSOD, Windows Alert popped up wanting to know if I wanted to
continue blocking Kaspersky AV or unblock it. Well, it never was
"blocked" to begin with.

But KAV didn't find any problems if that's where you're going with this.

Do you have a firewall running when trying to do a System Restore? If
so, pull your internet connection and shut down the firewall. Disable it
until the restore has finished, then re-enable it.

No firewall other than the router.

If system restore still doesn't run, you can boot into safe mode with
command prompt and run c:\windows\system32\restore\rstrui.exe. This has
worked for me in the past when all else failed.

If problem persists, I'll give that a try ..

Cheers, Jay

 

[Jay]

On 14.03.2009 18:02, Terry R. wrote:

--- Original Message ---

The date and time was Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24:12 PM, and on a
whim, Jay pounded out on the keyboard:


Hi Jay,

I just had a long discussion in another thread regarding the uselessness
of SR. I have personally experienced its failure multiple times and
also have numerous client machines where it also has failed. The best
way to protect yourself is having a recent backup you can restore from.
Don't depend on SR.

There are things you can do to prevent it from happening, but my main
argument is, it's too late at that point.
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/srfail.html

The BSOD would require more info from the screen to interpret closer to
what may have happened.

Terry R.

This started right after the latest windows update - 3 security patches
on 3/13/09 mid-morning.

Jay

 

[Bill in Co.]

The date and time was Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:24:12 PM, and on a
whim, Jay pounded out on the keyboard:


Hi Jay,

I just had a long discussion in another thread regarding the uselessness
of SR.

It's not completely "useless". It can (and has) save/d the day in many
instances. Not all, but still enough that it's worth keeping, in addition
to an image backup of your system. (And you can also add ERUNT into the
mix, and then have 3 restoration tools to use and choose from, as you find
appropriate).

 

[SC Tom]

On 14.03.2009 18:02, Terry R. wrote:

--- Original Message ---



This started right after the latest windows update - 3 security patches on
3/13/09 mid-morning.

Jay

You can try uninstalling the 3 updates from Control Panel and see if that
helps.

SC Tom

 

[Jay]

On 15.03.2009 06:53, SC Tom wrote:

--- Original Message ---

You can try uninstalling the 3 updates from Control Panel and see if that
helps.

SC Tom

So that's where you uninstall 'em ...

At any rate, got faced with more blue screens this morning. Funny thing
is the keyboard (USB-wireless) works to hit ESC to get into BIOS and
hitting F8 works to get into the menu screen ... buttt .. the arrow keys
do NOT work to select safe-mode.

At any rate, I finally managed to boot into XP and looked at the device
drivers list and there was a big yellow ? next to an audio device driver
for High Definiion ATI which didn't make sense because it was never
installed in the first place. At any rate, I selected it and let XP
install the drivers, it's now enbabled - working properly - and no more
yellow ?

Will see what happens the rest of today ... thanks

Jay

 

[Jay]

On 14.03.2009 20:52, Bill in Co. wrote:

--- Original Message ---

It's not completely "useless". It can (and has) save/d the day in many
instances. Not all, but still enough that it's worth keeping, in addition
to an image backup of your system. (And you can also add ERUNT into the
mix, and then have 3 restoration tools to use and choose from, as you find
appropriate).

It's useless from the standpoint that you can't restore anything from
the valid checkpoints. Why should you have to go into safe-mode hoops,
etc. I can't even get to safe-mode because the arrow keys don't function
on startup ... bah :-(

Jay

 

[Jay]

On 15.03.2009 06:53, SC Tom wrote:

--- Original Message ---

You can try uninstalling the 3 updates from Control Panel and see if that
helps.

<embarrased>

Where ?? I don't see it.

</embarrased>

Jay

 

[Jay]

On 15.03.2009 06:53, SC Tom wrote:

--- Original Message ---

You can try uninstalling the 3 updates from Control Panel and see if that
helps.

Ok, found it. A bit of logical thinking (rare here) told me to look in
Add/Remove Programs and check the box "Show Updates"

Scrolled down to the three March 12th updates and removed them. All
three were security updates with two updates combined in the first one.
The second and third update rebooted (automatically) after removal and
proceeded normally, no BSOD.

Will post back this evening one way or the other after work.

Thanks for all .. Jay

 

[SC Tom]

On 14.03.2009 20:52, Bill in Co. wrote:

--- Original Message ---


It's useless from the standpoint that you can't restore anything from the
valid checkpoints. Why should you have to go into safe-mode hoops, etc. I
can't even get to safe-mode because the arrow keys don't function on
startup ... bah :-(

Jay

The thing to remember is that SR was never meant to take the place of a data
backup. When I first started in the computer field, I was taught 3 basic
tenets;
1- backup,
2- backup, and most importantly,
3- backup.

SR has saved my butt a few times when other methods failed, even if I did
have to jump through a few hoops to get it done. But I have full backups of
all my HDD's in case a calamity befalls me. I don't backup as regularly as I
should, but if I had to do a complete restore today, I wouldn't lose a heck
of a lot.

Just my $.02 worth.
SC Tom

 

[Peter Foldes]

Jay

When you were installing those Updates was Norton AV running or disabled

 

[Jay]

On 15.03.2009 10:04, SC Tom wrote:

--- Original Message ---

The thing to remember is that SR was never meant to take the place of a data
backup. When I first started in the computer field, I was taught 3 basic
tenets;
1- backup,
2- backup, and most importantly,
3- backup.

SR has saved my butt a few times when other methods failed, even if I did
have to jump through a few hoops to get it done. But I have full backups of
all my HDD's in case a calamity befalls me. I don't backup as regularly as I
should, but if I had to do a complete restore today, I wouldn't lose a heck
of a lot.

Just my $.02 worth.
SC Tom

BSOD waiting for me when I got home this evening. This time
"Page_Fault_In_Non-Page_Area" .. rebooted and when the screen comes up
"loading personal settings" it jumped to CHKDSK and found "Bad
Attribute" in some sector, etc. then went through more diagnostics,
recovered lost files, booted and we're back up again ... for the moment.
Only does this when it's idle for a few hours, never when I'm using it.
Hopefully this time it's done.

At any rate, I run a full backup weekly and incremental nightly on the
three boxes here on the network. Also run Acronis Image weekly and
Diskkeeper daily ... never a lack of some sorta backup/recover, etc.

Thanks, Jay

 

[Jay]

On 15.03.2009 18:54, Peter Foldes wrote:

--- Original Message ---

Jay

When you were installing those Updates was Norton AV running or disabled

No, KAV was disabled tho. I NEVER run anything Norton.

But for the sake of learning, what IF KAV was running? I did remove
those three updates nonetheless.

Jay

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:52:33 PM, and on a
whim, Bill in Co. pounded out on the keyboard:

It's not completely "useless". It can (and has) save/d the day in many
instances. Not all, but still enough that it's worth keeping, in addition
to an image backup of your system. (And you can also add ERUNT into the
mix, and then have 3 restoration tools to use and choose from, as you find
appropriate).

To you it's not. To Jay, myself, and numerous clients, it was useless.
It's all from personal experience. Unfortunately I've had more
clients that SR has failed on than ones where it was successful. So you
have to understand it from a user perspective. I wish that it DID work
on those times. It would have saved the clients a lot of grief.


Terry R.

 

[Jay]

On 14.03.2009 17:24, Jay wrote:

--- Original Message ---

Win XP Pro (fully licensed)

Problem:

1. Windows update - 3 security updates on 3/13/09
2. During the night while idle, BSOD - IRQL_NOT_LESS _OR_EQUAL
3. Restarted manually after I woke in the morning
4. Computer idle and 2-3 hrs later BSOD again same error
5. Attempted system restore from apparent valid dates (bold) - System
Checkpoints

3/1/09 - all restore points to 3/14/09 - Restore Incomplete

What's the point of "System Restore" if it doesn't work? No clue as to
why it doesn't work.

Any ideas on both issues - the BSOD and the System Restore?

Thanks, Jay

Gonna say it "seems" to be fixed rather than it IS fixed or else the
BSOD Gremlins will strike again.

At any rate, the timeline (brief):

0. Before 12-March-2009 - no problems, no stops, etc.

1. Three updates - 1 containing two patches for WMP, installed 12-March-2009

2. System BSOD overnight, noted on the morning of 13-March

3. System Restore didn't work

4. Cannot get to safe-mode because wireless keyboard is dead at the
point to choose it and therefore arrow keys are useless

5. Noted in device manager that the ATI High Definition Audio driver was
not working. This only happened AFTER the update

6. Installed new driver for the Hi-Def but that didn't fix the BSOD

7. Noted by Googling that the OEM ATI 8000 drivers were causing an
instability in of all things the Hi-Def Audio Driver. Other
instabilities also of note.

8. Installed the latest drivers for ATI 8000 series released 20-FEB-2009

9. Problem solved - no BSOD overnight and system running as intended

Summary:

It appears that the WMP update played a role, somehow, in corrupting the
default Hi-Def driver. Even removing those updates did not solve the
issue nor did letting XP install a fresh driver. Installing the latest
ATI video driver was the key as best as I can determine.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions and hope that this experience
will help someone else.

Jay

 

[Terry R.]

The date and time was Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:49:29 AM, and on a whim,
Jay pounded out on the keyboard:

On 14.03.2009 17:24, Jay wrote:

--- Original Message ---


Gonna say it "seems" to be fixed rather than it IS fixed or else the
BSOD Gremlins will strike again.

At any rate, the timeline (brief):

0. Before 12-March-2009 - no problems, no stops, etc.

1. Three updates - 1 containing two patches for WMP, installed 12-March-2009

2. System BSOD overnight, noted on the morning of 13-March

3. System Restore didn't work

4. Cannot get to safe-mode because wireless keyboard is dead at the
point to choose it and therefore arrow keys are useless

5. Noted in device manager that the ATI High Definition Audio driver was
not working. This only happened AFTER the update

6. Installed new driver for the Hi-Def but that didn't fix the BSOD

7. Noted by Googling that the OEM ATI 8000 drivers were causing an
instability in of all things the Hi-Def Audio Driver. Other
instabilities also of note.

8. Installed the latest drivers for ATI 8000 series released 20-FEB-2009

9. Problem solved - no BSOD overnight and system running as intended

Summary:

It appears that the WMP update played a role, somehow, in corrupting the
default Hi-Def driver. Even removing those updates did not solve the
issue nor did letting XP install a fresh driver. Installing the latest
ATI video driver was the key as best as I can determine.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions and hope that this experience
will help someone else.

Jay

You're welcome Jay. Glad to hear you're back to working.


Terry R.