After XP SP3 pemanently fragmented files

[Stephen Ford]

PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space
I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the
relevant file names are in the report but nothing is listed. Files
defragmented properly prior to SP3 (which was SP2). Coincidence?

The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new
operates compared with the setup with SP2.

 

[Alias]

PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space
I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the
relevant file names are in the report but nothing is listed. Files
defragmented properly prior to SP3 (which was SP2). Coincidence?

The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new
operates compared with the setup with SP2.

Do you have Windows Live Messenger installed?

Alias

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space
I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the
relevant file names are in the report but nothing is listed. Files
defragmented properly prior to SP3 (which was SP2). Coincidence?

The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new
operates compared with the setup with SP2.

While having all files completely continguous might give you
a warm feeling of satisfaction, having a few fragmentend files
makes no measurable difference on the performance of your
PC - so why worry?

 

[Gerry]

Stephen

Are you using the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter or a third party
defragmenter.

Can you provide a copy of the Report. Not all fragmented files appear in
the Most Fragmented Files lists!

Open Disk Defragmenter and click on Analyse. Select View Report and
click on Save As and Save. Now find VolumeC.txt in your My Documents
Folder and post a copy. Do this before running Disk Defragmenter as it
is more informative.

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Robert Moir]

PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space
I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the
relevant file names are in the report but nothing is listed. Files
defragmented properly prior to SP3 (which was SP2). Coincidence?

The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new
operates compared with the setup with SP2.

If you're not actually having a problem with the way the computer is
operating then I'd suggest not worrying too much about the defragger
muttering over a couple of files.

 

[HeyBub]

If you're not actually having a problem with the way the computer is
operating then I'd suggest not worrying too much about the defragger
muttering over a couple of files.

To some people, a fragmented file is like having a set of encyclopedia with
a paperback copy of "Bawdy Tales of King Arthur's Knights" stuck between the
volumes "PQ" and "R".

It's just not seemly.

 

[Robert Moir]

To some people, a fragmented file is like having a set of
encyclopedia with a paperback copy of "Bawdy Tales of King Arthur's
Knights" stuck between the volumes "PQ" and "R".

It's just not seemly.

I understand that some people dislike it, I just don't see why they do!
Life's too short to worry about theoretical problems that don't matter!

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

To some people, a fragmented file is like having a set of encyclopedia
with a paperback copy of "Bawdy Tales of King Arthur's Knights" stuck
between the volumes "PQ" and "R".

It's just not seemly.

If you introduced a tool that could display the physical location
of each file on the the disk then some people would go to extreme
lengths to ensure that all files belonging to a specific folder were
stored on adjacent disk clusters. It would make no difference to
the PC's performance but it would satisfy their sense of tidiness.
As Robert suggested, life is too short to worry about such
irrelevant matters.

 

[HeyBub]

If you introduced a tool that could display the physical location
of each file on the the disk then some people would go to extreme
lengths to ensure that all files belonging to a specific folder were
stored on adjacent disk clusters. It would make no difference to
the PC's performance but it would satisfy their sense of tidiness.
As Robert suggested, life is too short to worry about such
irrelevant matters.

Sounds like an opportunity for a software developer to fill a need...

Imagine: A utility to arrange file locations alphabetically!

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

If you introduced a tool that could display the physical location

Sounds like an opportunity for a software developer to fill a need...

Imagine: A utility to arrange file locations alphabetically!

ROFL!

 

[HeyBub]

ROFL!

Go ahead.

Laugh at those afflicted with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder!

It's insensitive types like you who see nothing wrong with the absence of
ramps for the disabled at Hogwarts!

Even the top rung of the scaling ladders used in Lord of the Rings were
marked: "This is not a step." (You have to look closely.)

 

[Stephen Ford]

Did I miss something here? It looks like several levels of discussion passed
by my news reader and disappeared into outer space. All I got is seen below.

If permanently fragmented files are usual, then fine in post-SP2. It's just
I'm not used to seeing them

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Did I miss something here? It looks like several levels of discussion
passed by my news reader and disappeared into outer space. All I got is
seen below.

If permanently fragmented files are usual, then fine in post-SP2. It's
just I'm not used to seeing them

Yes - you missed most of the fun. Have a look here:
http://www.microsoft.com/communitie...ae-b3bb-439c4a903983&cat=&lang=&cr=&sloc=&p=1

 

[Stephen Ford]

Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can

<<Do you have Windows Live Messenger installed? >>
yes, but disabled.

<<While having all files completely continguous might give you
a warm feeling of satisfaction, having a few fragmentend files
makes no measurable difference on the performance of your
PC - so why worry?>>
I'm amazed that people are saying that fragmenation makes not difference. I
halved the response time of a laptop recently by defagging and it makes a
noticeable difference to my PC. If what I have always understood
fragmentation to be is still valid, which is bits of a file scattered around
the disc, it can't do anything but slow the machine down. Although I'm ready
to learn...

<<Open Disk Defragmenter and click on Analyse. Select View Report and
click on Save As and Save. Now find VolumeC.txt in your My Documents
Folder and post a copy. Do this before running Disk Defragmenter as it
is more informative. >>

Defragging was done recently. If it's left a week or so there are dozens of
files with 300+ fragments.

Volume (C
Volume size = 29.30 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 11.16 GB
Free space = 18.14 GB
Percent free space = 61 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 0 %
File fragmentation = 1 %
Free space fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 59,188
Average file size = 288 KB
Total fragmented files = 178
Total excess fragments = 904
Average fragments per file = 1.01

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 720 MB
Total fragments = 1

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 5,576
Fragmented folders = 3
Excess folder fragments = 3

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 70 MB
MFT record count = 65,130
Percent MFT in use = 90 %
Total MFT fragments = 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments File Size Most fragmented files
130 8 MB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet
Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\Potterton_Gold_Combi_HE_Installation_and_Service_Instructions[1].pdf
63 3 MB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\NTBackup\catalogs51\38BA8544.V01
60 950 KB \System Volume
Information\_restore{5D95AE1E-87A2-4EDF-B4E0-BDB0C9EDAB3F}\RP718\change.log
38 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\SiteAdv\SiteAdv002.log
37 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\SiteAdv\SiteAdv000.log
25 1 MB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet
Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\Potterton_Gold_Combi_HE_User_Guide[1].pdf
17 154 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcupdmgr\mcupdmgr001.log
17 65 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temp\WCESCOMM.LOG
12 53 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcupdmgr\mcupdmgr002.log
10 112 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temp\WCESMgr.log
10 143 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcmscsvc\mcmscsvc000.log
10 393 KB
\WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\DataColl\CollectedData_14284.xml
9 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcnasvc\mcnasvc000.log
9 397 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My
Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style_2.fp
9 398 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My
Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style_1.fp
8 29 MB \System Volume
Information\_restore{5D95AE1E-87A2-4EDF-B4E0-BDB0C9EDAB3F}\RP718\snapshot\_REGISTRY_MACHINE_SOFTWARE
7 54 KB \WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Logs\wbemess.log
7 213 KB \WINDOWS\Prefetch\Layout.ini
6 213 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My
Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style.fp
6 3 MB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\HackerWatch\data\HwLocal.xdb
6 79 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\NTBackup\catalogs51\38BA8B9B.V01
6 157 KB
\WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\DataColl\CollectedData_14286.xml
6 234 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My
Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Customer balances Apr 08 at
250508Acquire.fp
5 2 MB \WINDOWS\WindowsUpdate.log
5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\29H92LZU\fragmentStyle[1].css
5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\2GLOWPJO\fragmentStyle[1].css
5 88 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\2GLOWPJO\script[1].js
5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\fragmentStyle[1].css
5 39 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Application
Data\Microsoft\Outlook\OutlPrnt
===================
<<If you're not actually having a problem with the way the computer is
operating then I'd suggest not worrying too much about the defragger
muttering over a couple of files. >>
I am concerned that after installing SP3 something changed wrt
defragmentation. I don't like change I can't explain - it makes me nervous.
I've had too much trouble with PCs in times gone by to leave something like
this. If a defragmenter is supposed to defragment and it doesn't there is
something wrong. I want to know *how wrong*. Can I sleep at night or is there
something going to pop up and bite me...?

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can

<<Do you have Windows Live Messenger installed? >>
yes, but disabled.

<<While having all files completely continguous might give you
a warm feeling of satisfaction, having a few fragmentend files
makes no measurable difference on the performance of your
PC - so why worry?>>
I'm amazed that people are saying that fragmenation makes not difference.
I
halved the response time of a laptop recently by defagging and it makes a
noticeable difference to my PC. If what I have always understood
fragmentation to be is still valid, which is bits of a file scattered
around
the disc, it can't do anything but slow the machine down. Although I'm
ready
to learn...

*** I said "having a FEW fragmentend files makes no measurable
*** difference". Try to measure the difference - you won't notice
*** anything!

 

[Stephen Ford]

*** I said "having a FEW fragmentend files makes no measurable
*** difference". Try to measure the difference - you won't notice
*** anything!

The lap top had dozens of files - maybe hundreds - with 400+ fragments each
on an XP system. My PC has dozens of files >300 fragments after a week.

I would venture to suggest saying about the effects of fragmentation that
there will be a proportionally greater impact on speed when regularly used
files are highly fragmented (eg o/s and db files). I wouldn't expect to see a
difference with a highly fragmented WP or spreadsheet file.

What puzzles me is a note from the defragmenter about files left fragmented.
That just does not seem right, and in the absense of the file names (even
though the warning dialogue says the file names are in the report - but they
are not) I'm stuck for wondering what's going on.

It's like the garage saying "We serviced your car and the diagnostics say
there is a broken wire. The cost of the service is..." So most people I would
I think say, "So... which wire?" with the garage replying "Sorry, the
diagnostics didn't say..." And I feel that Windows is doing that in this case.

 

[Alias]

Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can

<<Do you have Windows Live Messenger installed? >>
yes, but disabled.

Doesn't matter. Try doing the defrag in Safe Mode under the
Administrator account and you should be able to see what isn't being
defragged. I have installed Windows Live Messenger on five computers and
all of them had the defrag problem you refer to after installing Windows
Live Messenger. It's ironic that WLM is an MS product.

Alias

<<While having all files completely continguous might give you
a warm feeling of satisfaction, having a few fragmentend files
makes no measurable difference on the performance of your
PC - so why worry?>>
I'm amazed that people are saying that fragmenation makes not difference. I
halved the response time of a laptop recently by defagging and it makes a
noticeable difference to my PC. If what I have always understood
fragmentation to be is still valid, which is bits of a file scattered around
the disc, it can't do anything but slow the machine down. Although I'm ready
to learn...

<<Open Disk Defragmenter and click on Analyse. Select View Report and
click on Save As and Save. Now find VolumeC.txt in your My Documents
Folder and post a copy. Do this before running Disk Defragmenter as it
is more informative. >>

Defragging was done recently. If it's left a week or so there are dozens of
files with 300+ fragments.

Volume (C
Volume size = 29.30 GB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 11.16 GB
Free space = 18.14 GB
Percent free space = 61 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 0 %
File fragmentation = 1 %
Free space fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 59,188
Average file size = 288 KB
Total fragmented files = 178
Total excess fragments = 904
Average fragments per file = 1.01

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 720 MB
Total fragments = 1

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 5,576
Fragmented folders = 3
Excess folder fragments = 3

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 70 MB
MFT record count = 65,130
Percent MFT in use = 90 %
Total MFT fragments = 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fragments File Size Most fragmented files
130 8 MB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet
Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\Potterton_Gold_Combi_HE_Installation_and_Service_Instructions[1].pdf
63 3 MB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\NTBackup\catalogs51\38BA8544.V01
60 950 KB \System Volume
Information\_restore{5D95AE1E-87A2-4EDF-B4E0-BDB0C9EDAB3F}\RP718\change.log
38 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\SiteAdv\SiteAdv002.log
37 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\SiteAdv\SiteAdv000.log
25 1 MB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet
Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\Potterton_Gold_Combi_HE_User_Guide[1].pdf
17 154 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcupdmgr\mcupdmgr001.log
17 65 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temp\WCESCOMM.LOG
12 53 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcupdmgr\mcupdmgr002.log
10 112 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temp\WCESMgr.log
10 143 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcmscsvc\mcmscsvc000.log
10 393 KB
\WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\DataColl\CollectedData_14284.xml
9 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcnasvc\mcnasvc000.log
9 397 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My
Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style_2.fp
9 398 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My
Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style_1.fp
8 29 MB \System Volume
Information\_restore{5D95AE1E-87A2-4EDF-B4E0-BDB0C9EDAB3F}\RP718\snapshot\_REGISTRY_MACHINE_SOFTWARE
7 54 KB \WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Logs\wbemess.log
7 213 KB \WINDOWS\Prefetch\Layout.ini
6 213 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My
Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style.fp
6 3 MB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\McAfee\HackerWatch\data\HwLocal.xdb
6 79 KB \Documents and Settings\All
Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\NTBackup\catalogs51\38BA8B9B.V01
6 157 KB
\WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\DataColl\CollectedData_14286.xml
6 234 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My
Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Customer balances Apr 08 at
250508Acquire.fp
5 2 MB \WINDOWS\WindowsUpdate.log
5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\29H92LZU\fragmentStyle[1].css
5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\2GLOWPJO\fragmentStyle[1].css
5 88 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\2GLOWPJO\script[1].js
5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local
Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\fragmentStyle[1].css
5 39 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Application
Data\Microsoft\Outlook\OutlPrnt
===================
<<If you're not actually having a problem with the way the computer is
operating then I'd suggest not worrying too much about the defragger
muttering over a couple of files. >>
I am concerned that after installing SP3 something changed wrt
defragmentation. I don't like change I can't explain - it makes me nervous.
I've had too much trouble with PCs in times gone by to leave something like
this. If a defragmenter is supposed to defragment and it doesn't there is
something wrong. I want to know *how wrong*. Can I sleep at night or is there
something going to pop up and bite me...?

 

[Stephen Ford]

Doesn't matter. Try doing the defrag in Safe Mode under the
Administrator account and you should be able to see what isn't being
defragged. I have installed Windows Live Messenger on five computers and
all of them had the defrag problem you refer to after installing Windows
Live Messenger. It's ironic that WLM is an MS product.

Ok I'll try. Thx. S

 

[Gerry]

Stephen

The reality is that there are so many scenarios that what suits one
situation does not have a significant impact in another. Defragmenting
should not be taken in isolation. You should always run Disk CleanUp (
or cCleaner ) before running Disk Defragmenter. The combination of the
two will have an an impact but it will differ from one system to
another.

A point worth making is that a system which has limited RAM and CPU
capacity may need all the help it can get to achieve an acceptable level
of performance. The percentage improvement will be greater on computers
in this situation than those with plenty of RAM and CPU capacity.

How much RAM and what is the CPU on your system?

Looking at your Disk Defragmenter Report my interpretation is that not a
lot is wrong.

Do you run Disk CleanUp before you run Disk Defragmenter? One limitation
Disk CleanUp has is that to be more effective it needs to be run in each
User Profile where there is more than one user active.

An alternative to Disk CleanUp is cCleaner (freeware) which does a more
thorough job than Disk CleanUp. Disk CleanUp has to be run for each user
profile, whereas cCleaner only needs to be run once.
http://www.ccleaner.com/ccdownload.asp
http://www.ccleaner.com/

With any cleaner you need to proceed with caution. To be safe you
should create a restore point before using cCleaner. cCleaner also
offers backup before removal.

When using cCleaner think twice before checking Autocomplete Form
History under Internet Explorer. You do get a warning but this one has
irritating consequences. You may need to restore your system's
recollection of passwords after use so keep a record off computer so
that they can easily be re-entered.

Leave the Scan for Issues option alone.

cCleaner does not remove restore points. You need to use Disk CleanUp
for this. Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk
CleanUp, More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest
System Restore point.

It is noticeable that you are running McAfee. What version would that
be? You do seem to have a lot of logs running?



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Cliff]

Stephen

Methinks a lot of people have not been taking this issue seriously... I have.
I too had this issue and tried all sorts of methods to rid myself of the
nasty red block to no avail so I thought I'd get a bit drastic having read
various articles on the subject and guess what... I managed to solve it, I
now have a solution for you that works.
Download two programs, both free I hasten to add, Eraser and Ultimate
Defragmenter and run them both in that order. I would add links o them but
it's just as easy to Google them.
Eraser securly wipes the free space on your drive then Ultimate Defragger
does exactly what it says on the packet..... Problem solved.
Hope this helps you... it did me.
And BTW I scanned both programs with A2 Squared and AVG and they're both
clean so no worries there either.