After FP03: then what?

D

Dick Watson

My web development is neither "professional web designer" nor "enterprise
information worker", apparently the target markets for ExpressionWeb and
SharePointDesigner, respectively.

So where do I go after FP03? I just build my own pages and relatively simple
sites for use on domains I own (using 1&1 shared Linux hosting) and ISP user
"home pages" (no SharePoint servers). Is the answer that Microsoft has no
real solution for me going forward? (Word? Yikes!)
 
J

Jon Spivey

Hi,
There's nothing to stop you carrying on with FP if you're happy with it.
Support won't be retired for some years yet. Might be worth checking out
Expression as the beta's free but no sense upgrading if you're happy with
what you have. Don't use Word though - but you already knew that :)

Cheers,
Jon
 
D

David Berry

Just because a new product / version is coming out doesn't mean you have to
use it. You can still keep using FrontPage for as long as you like. I
still use FP2000.
 
J

Jim Cheshire (Jimco Software)

True enough. I just like to keep some future direction in mind.

Expression Web is the next step for users of FrontPage. Yes, it's true
that you don't have to ditch FrontPage, but I can't see why you
wouldn't! Expression Web improves upon FrontPage on so many fronts
that the upgrade is a no-brainer from my perspective.

Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
http://www.jimcosoftware.com

Author:
Special Edition Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
Special Edition Using Microsoft Expression Web (Releasing soon!)
Developing ASP.NET Applications with Expression Web (Avail in 2007)
 
G

Guest

We currently have a web site for our small company that is very archaic and
not easy to use. I am going to transfer the site to Go Daddy and in choosing
the hosting plan I am not going to go with their web development application,
because it to is limited and have decided to purchase my own. I was kicking
both DreamWeaver and FP 2003 around and decided to go with FP 2003. Now I am
reading that it is no longer going to exist after 2006.

For a novice Web dude, that has no experience in Web Language, I am looking
for a WYSGWIG application that is easy to use, do you think I should look
rather to the new products they are developing, or should I still go with FP
2003. In reading the article on the new product it stated that is was for
professional developers, of which I am not.
 
D

Dick Watson

I probably get to the same place, IF the thing is priced along the lines of
FP, not along the lines of VisStudio.

As yet, there's not one hint of pricing data for EW that I can find. (SPD is
a $159 upgrade from FP03. Even that seems a tad steep vs. my usage, but is
probably about what I spent on my last upgrade of FP.)

I'm also a little put off by all of this "professional web designer" talk.
(One of the reasons I fear an outrageous price.) I do software and computer
stuff for a living. I hack with web pages and web sites for fun.
"Professional web designer" is just not on my career objectives list. All
this talk about sexy stuff like XSLT and ASP.NET just hurts my head in the
context of the simple stuff I do with FP and my web pages/sites.

Is EW any friendlier with PHP code than FP03? *That* might be persuasive!
 
J

Jim Cheshire (Jimco Software)

I probably get to the same place, IF the thing is priced along the lines of
FP, not along the lines of VisStudio.

As yet, there's not one hint of pricing data for EW that I can find. (SPD is
a $159 upgrade from FP03. Even that seems a tad steep vs. my usage, but is
probably about what I spent on my last upgrade of FP.)

I'm also a little put off by all of this "professional web designer" talk.

The "professional" label is likely a marketing scheme by Microsoft.
The competition for EW is Dreamweaver, and it has skated by on a
professional mantra for many years. I believe Microsoft is trying to
get out from under the weight of FrontPage's "amateur" reputation.

The pricing for EW will be approximately $100 for an upgrade from ANY
VERSION of FrontPage and approximately $300 for a new purchase.

This will, no doubt, wrap badly:

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Exp...s_sr_5/104-7645401-5463108?ie=UTF8&s=software

Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
http://www.jimcosoftware.com

Author:
Special Edition Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
Special Edition Using Microsoft Expression Web (Releasing soon!)
Developing ASP.NET Applications with Expression Web (Avail in 2007)
 
D

Dick Watson

Thanks for the data point. Maybe I'll have to DL the beta and see how badly
it gags on my FP site.
 
D

Dick Watson

I'm convinced. Seems likely the name was changed to run from the reputation.
Other than that, it's FP++ aligned to standards. (Now I just have to ponder
the 600+ compatibility errors it generated for my site. Are there any "how
to un-FrontPage your site" tutorials anywhere?)
 
W

Windsun

I think that is going to be a major problem for many sites... I know for one
of my sites it seems to be taking forever, but that involves a lot of
redesign also.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
D

Dick Watson

I'd bet that's true. But most of my compatibility errors are coming from FP
template code. I haven't researched it at all and have only played with it
for a little while, but there is no hint how to "redesign" that. Unlike with
the accessibility errors, the compatibility errors just tell you what it
doesn't like but give zero hint what it would like better that would
accomplish the same objective. Am I supposed to go off and read xhtml specs
to finger it out?

Crossposted to microsoft.public.expression.webdesigner since that seems a
more fruitful place for the discussion of what to do after EW.
 
B

Bob Lehmann

Am I supposed to go off and read xhtml specs

Oh, the horror of it all!

Actually obtaining some knowledge about what you are doing. That just sux!

Bob Lehmann
 
J

Jim Cheshire (Jimco Software)

Oh, the horror of it all!

Actually obtaining some knowledge about what you are doing. That just sux!

But you really don't have to. Go to Code view and right-click on one
of the sections that doesn't validate. You'll have the ability to fix
it with a click.

Keep in mind that FrontPage components won't validate, and if you try
and fix them, they'll likely change back or break.

Jim Cheshire
Jimco Software and Books
http://www.jimcosoftware.com

Author:
Special Edition Using Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003
Special Edition Using Microsoft Expression Web (Releasing soon!)
Developing ASP.NET Applications with Expression Web (Avail in 2007)
 
T

Tina Clarke

Well I've answered this a few times on here (webdesigner ng) on a how to do
that .. but not wrote a tutorial yet.

Basically

Setup EW FIRST. This is an essential part.
Backup your site twice- once for backup once for working copy.
First I do maintenance, which means checking all the graphics to see if they
are being used and if not they are removed to a storage web, you use the
hyperlinks view to check they are linked (previously in fp03 the reports
were not always accurate that they were linked or not ... I've not tested ew
on this and prefer to use my old tried and tested method)
I check all the links and fix anything that needs updating removing etc.
Check I need all the files I have remove or delete if needed.
Make a new template .. which has been tried out on different browsers, and
checked with content in it, complete with css file dwt and includes for
menus (my preferred method) also critiqued by several people for feedback.
Ok now i'm ready.

Using the working copy site.
I take the first file in the folder list under the root... and work my way
down .. that way I know exactly where I'm up to.

I open the page (if it had a dwt on before I detach the page)
I use the keyboard Control + A to select All.
Then Remove Formatting - keyboard Control + Shift + Z
(I find this quicker than using the menu since your fingers are all in the
same place)
This will remove quite a bit of the formatting however not all.
Next I select the content with the mouse and right click and press cut.
use the keyboard Control + A to select all and then press delete on the
keyboard.
right click and paste the content back.
Go to code view

I will presume that your going the whole hog and will now be using xhtml
(all you need to know there is that everything should be lower case and the
closing tags have to have a slash and space - do you have to remember to do
this yourself? Hell no!)
Right click in code view and press Apply xml formatting rules - ew will
sort all that out for you.
Here is where you delete any external metas for css files
where you look to see what extra code is left over like inline styles .. you
will need to rely on find and replace, using find and replace in code view
or from the menu is not as intuitive sometimes as using the task pane find
and replace.
Look through several times and you can spot the extra coding left over ...
this includes span lang tags inline styles and font tags.
go back to the design side of the split view
select all with the keyboard and right click and cut.
attach the dwt you made to the page.. which will wipe out anything there
(except the editables you put around your description and keywords and title
right click in the content area and paste...
Now is the time to apply heading tags and to use the compatibility checker
which will help you fix all the problems that may occur.

First go to code view and right click and apply xml formatting rules again
... this usually sorts out a bunch of stuff.

Use icons that will appear at the bottom in the status bar to run through
each problem, make sure you have alts on all your graphics for instance and
blank alts on your presentation graphics (i.e. part of the template for
example corners)
Use f9 to tab through them or use the compatibility task pane to go through
each of them.
You can also use the accessibility task pane and in general your css task
pane... since all styles should be in the external css file you should only
need to keep an on that at the beginning and end)
Look through code view once more to make sure no styles have crept in .. if
they have wipe them from the head and the html....

Finally validate your page with the w3c... sometimes the validator will pick
up on things that the compatibility wont' and vice a versa.

and so on for each page... by doing each page in this way you get a feel for
the overall site and it lets you think about moving things around. If you
need to change file names use a 301 redirect (for seo) new file names should
be written like so my-new-page.htm no uppercase no underscores no spaces.

By having a template that you know validates properly, by having a dwt and a
css file where you know all you have to do is make one change and save ...
anything you need to change will be come so much easier.

I've done this quite a few times and there are other things I use to get
pages looking spanking... but that's basically it above.... the very main
thing to do first is to set up ew though otherwise you will miss out on
helpful features. This post is just a basic outline.

I've started a tutorial series on this at
http://any-expression.com/

I suggest you also read before you start.

http://accessfp.net/frontpage-2003/tutorials/cleaning-up-frontpage-code.htm
This is written for fp03 but carries some other links that will be of use.

FrontPage DWT Ebook (free)
http://frontpage-ebooks.com/dwt-ebook.htm

FrontPage Include Tutorial (again helpful towards ew)
http://anyfrontpage.com/ezine/va/frontpage-includes.htm
but read also
http://any-expression.com/expression-web/tutorials/insert-include-pages.htm

FrontPage and CSS (again helpful towards ew)
http://accessfp.net/frontpage-2003/tutorials/information-about-css.htm
http://accessfp.net/frontpage-2003/tutorials/creating-css.htm

When the site is ready I wipe the orginal OFF the server.... it's too easy
to have files remain.... then I publish in full... remember to recalculate
hyperlinks before publishing.
http://any-expression.com/expression-web/tips/recalculate-hyperlinks.htm

hth Tina


http://expression-web.net - Expression Blog
http://any-expression.com/ - Expression Web Help
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/any-expression/ - Ezine
 
D

Dick Watson

:)

FrontPage components are generating the VAST majority of my validation
errors. (Probably > 90%.)

I reduced the number of errors generated by my hand coded stuff by 3/4 or
more in about fifteen minutes. The remaining errors from the hand-coded
stuff is a couple of cases that will takes some more learning/research.
 
D

Dick Watson

I'm all for obtaining SOME knowledge. Understanding, at any level beyond
surface glance, the panoply of specs behind xhtml 1.1, etc., is not **some**
knowledge. It's a year's science project. You make it sound like this is all
kindergarten stuff easily mastered in an afternoon.

Worse, the whole claim to fame of EW is supposed to be that it generates
compliant sites without the user having to be an expert in what compliant
actually means. You seem to exhibit an attitude suggests suggesting this is
a false promise. If so, hey, let's just all whip out tens of thousands of
pages of XML/XHTML/W3C etc. specs and pop open Notepad. Who needs these fox
new tools?
 
D

Dick Watson

That's a great help. Thanks for the post and the links. I think there's
enough data here that, assuming I can find an uninterrupted four hours or
so, I should be able to go full xhtml via EW for the "big site".

Then the question is whether I want to go back and do some of the legacy
sites. By then I'll probably be good at it!

Thanks again. I may be posting back with more questions.
 
W

Windsun

Actually XHTML basics is not that hard, it is pretty much like HTML with a
few changes, like making sure you close most tags with < /p> or whatever.

But EW will do most of that for you - just right click the code page and
tell it to reformat and reformat to XHTML.

Also make sure your DOCTYPE is correct for XHTML.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
G

Guest

Hi
New to this EW. After reading your post, got a lot of good tips.
BUT
hoe do I solve this:
Page Line Issue Type Schema Problem Summary
default.htm (Home) [15/18] 104 Incompatibility XHTML 1.0 Transitional The
World Wide Web Consortium now regards the attribute 'align' as outdated.
Newer constructs are recommended.


What are/or where are these new constructs to be found ??

Regards
Simon
 

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