Advice Please

[Mark D. Miller]

I've got a good running Intel-based system (P4 3.0 on and Intel 875PBZ main
board, a gig of OCZ RAM and an ATI 9500 PRO 128 Mb video card) but I've
become intrigued with swapping the board and CPU for AMD based setup just
because everyone says they simply run better. Hell, I'll take the plunge and
get a new SATA hard drive while I'm at it too. I do build my own machines
just befause I want the best I can get for the money I spend, as we all do.
From what I've read, including lurking in this group for a few days, is that
a Socket 939 based system is fairly future-proof, and the 3200+ is the best
bang for the buck AMD processor at the moment. It seems like the NVidia
NForce 3 or 4 is the best AMD chipset. I do play games, don't overclock
much, even though I've got this board running in "burn-in" mode (all the way
to a max of 3.12 GHz!). After all of this, my question is, what main board
would the group recommend, and what other information would help me decide
how to build a solid AMD-based system?
Thanks in advance for the help and advice!
Mark Miller

 

[News]

Besides the socket, you may have to look at the bus to be "future-proof"
(There's always something else, isn't there?
If you go PCI-Express, then that probably means a new graphics card (there
is a PCI-E and AGP solution out there, as well as integrated video that
rivals 9500)

The options seem to be
939, PCI-E SLI -> there's a review of the 1st 4 MBs at www.anandtech.com,
they like DFI and MSI
939, PCI-E -> Nforce4's the way to go. For a few bucks over normal fare,
the DFI has SLI-like features. Otherwise features vs cost. Lookup Chaintech
and Foxconn MBs at Newegg
Though they're not plentiful, the ATI RS480 and RX480 chipsets are supposed
to be outstanding performers. The ATI reference MB had extreme overclocking
capability and top level performance (and DX9 compatible integrated graphics
based on X300)

939, AGP -> You could, but why? 754 seems to perform just as well, the CPUs
cost more, and you don't have the upgrade path of PCI-E
754, AGP you get to keep your AGP card, but future video upgrades look
dismal. On the plus side, Nforce3 or SiS755 MBs are mature and inexpensive,
and don't give up much (if any) practical performance over a similar 939
setup. Additionally, some MBs can support the DTR processors. They have 1MB
instead of 512KB, run much cooler, and overclock like mad (in this case, you
might want to consider overclocking). Look up the "definitive" thread
started by bar81 in anandtech.com forums.
Besides CPU and MB choices, apparently the power supply is a high-priority
concern. Look up the "definitive" thread in the extremeoverclocking.com
power supply forum.

I'm less familiar with recent developments on the Intel side. Is there no
replacement CPU that offers 64-bit features for your MB?

 

[Ed Light]

939, AGP -> You could, but why? 754 seems to perform just as well, the

CPUs
cost more

To keep your AGP card and still have the upgrade path of a 939, plus the
option to get the latest Winchester cpu, which runs very cool. And a 939 is
supposed to take the first dual-core cpu's.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

 

[Michael Paul]

Mark D. Miller wrote:

Hi,

I've got a good running Intel-based system (P4 3.0 on and Intel
875PBZ main board, a gig of OCZ RAM and an ATI 9500 PRO 128 Mb
video card) but I've become intrigued with swapping the board
and CPU for AMD based setup just because everyone says they simply
run better.

So, if you want "best bang for the buck", then keep your system, if
it's running good. The increase of performance can hardly be measured,
if you switched now.

Yes, I know, this is an AMD group;-) I for myself opted to choose AMD,
too. But I switched from an old PIII system. But I think there is no
need to swap a good running up-to-date Intel system with an AMD system
that has roughly the same performance.

But it is your money.

Michael

 

[Mark D. Miller]

Thanks all for the replys so far.
First, to answer, my main board is maxed out. Nowhere to go but down. Good
thought on going to PCI-E. I believe that's the way to go for any future
system I'll put together.
I was a bit surprised to read that the performance increase "can hardly be
measured" if I were to make the switch. If that is truly the case then you
are correct - why bother?
Thanks again
Mark Miller

 

[News]

If your goal is faster gaming, pay the $$ for an upgraded (AGP) video card.
ATI recently announced that there 8xx chips will be available in AGP,
perhaps slowing the rush to PCI-E.
The A64 is a faster CPU than the Pentium 4, but the impact on games are
mostly based on the video card.
Socket 754 and 939 CPUs are basically the same speed for games.
If you plan to upgrade the CPU again later, 939 has more headroom.

 

[News]

True, but you can get DTR CPUs on 754, with larger cache and runs cooler on
MBs that cost less.
Dual core is another story though. At the point that dual core is mainstream
and useful in personal computing, PCI-E would probably be mainstream as
well. All tradeoffs to be considered.

 

[Wayne Youngman]

"Michael Paul" wrote

But I think there is no
need to swap a good running up-to-date Intel system with an AMD system
that has roughly the same performance.

Hi,

I agree. Your current system can in no way be called *slow* The problem
with upgrading now is that the AMD platform is in a state-of-change, and
everything is barely out of Beta stage. We got dual-core CPU's on the
roadmap and who knows if they will work on current boards.

Bare in mid that allot of people that post are pretty *addicted* to the
hardware, so they tend to exaggerate on performance gains! meanwhile back in
the *real-world* the hardware vendors are just flogging more hardware!
Don't underestimate the power of of the marketing departments to relieve you
of your hard earned cash!

Looking at your system I think that the Video card needs to be upgraded.

I myself have a few machines, the best one being a 2.8GHz P4 Northwood that
is running at 3.5GHz, it flies! But if I was gonna build an A64 system I
would probably go for a good socket 754 set-up. I seen prices for a CPU and
mobo in the £150 mark!

Wayne ][

 

[General Schvantzkoph]

I've got a good running Intel-based system (P4 3.0 on and Intel 875PBZ main
board, a gig of OCZ RAM and an ATI 9500 PRO 128 Mb video card) but I've
become intrigued with swapping the board and CPU for AMD based setup just
because everyone says they simply run better. Hell, I'll take the plunge and
get a new SATA hard drive while I'm at it too. I do build my own machines
just befause I want the best I can get for the money I spend, as we all do.
From what I've read, including lurking in this group for a few days, is that
a Socket 939 based system is fairly future-proof, and the 3200+ is the best
bang for the buck AMD processor at the moment. It seems like the NVidia
NForce 3 or 4 is the best AMD chipset. I do play games, don't overclock
much, even though I've got this board running in "burn-in" mode (all the way
to a max of 3.12 GHz!). After all of this, my question is, what main board
would the group recommend, and what other information would help me decide
how to build a solid AMD-based system?
Thanks in advance for the help and advice!
Mark Miller

Your current system is pretty fast, it doesn't make any sense to upgrade
it, the performance gain that you would get won't be noticeable. If you
want an additional system then it makes sense to get an Athlon64 rather
than another Intel box but if you only use a single system then you should
wait at least two more years before doing an upgrade. A new system should
always at least 3-4 times faster than the box it replaced.

However if you are thinking about a new system check your local CompUSA.
The one near me, Nashua NH, was offering a managers special on
Compaq GX5000 systems which are based in the MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum
motherboard. The system price was much lower then you could build this
system for, even with the Windows tax. Even though it's Compaq branded
it's all name third party components,

Coolermaster WaveMaster Case
Enermax Noisetaker 470W supply
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum Motherboard
Athlon 64 3800+
256M 5700FX graphics card
CD/DVD writer
CDROM/DVDROM
200G WD SATA drive
Coolermaster cooler on the A64
Win2K Pro
-------------
$1400

I think they are clearing them out to make way for Nforce4 based systems.
There aren't any performance differences between Nforce3-250 systems and
Nforce4 systems. Unless you buy an SLI system the current generation PCI-E
and AGP8X graphics cards have identical performance. The IP offload engine
on the Nforce4 is more powerful then the one on Nforce3 but that won't
make any difference to the average user because you aren't pushing the
Gigabit ethernet ports very hard, I have mine connected to a 100Mbit
switch so I'm not even using it in Gigabit mode. Likewise NCQ in the
SATA-II on the Nforce 4 makes zero difference to desktop users.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Thanks all for the replys so far.
First, to answer, my main board is maxed out. Nowhere to go but down. Good
thought on going to PCI-E. I believe that's the way to go for any future
system I'll put together.
I was a bit surprised to read that the performance increase "can hardly be
measured" if I were to make the switch. If that is truly the case then you
are correct - why bother?

Well, it probably can be measured, but only in benchmarks. Benchmarks
are never a good indicator of the "feel" of a machine. You may not
notice a difference in the feel of these machines.

I think most people are a little surprised that you're even considering
an upgrade. A 3.0Ghz P4 is pretty much still near the top of the P4
heap, the fastest P4 now available has only gone upto 3.8Ghz. It's
doubtful if you'll even be able to feel a diffence between 3.0 and 3.8
Ghz.

Whereas the fastest Athlon 64's are now at 4000+ or the FX64-55. If you
want to upgrade and get a system that "feels" faster then you'd have to
look at these top of the line Athlons. An Athlon 64 3200+ is pretty
much a bottom of the line Athlon.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Ed Light]

An Athlon 64 3200+ is pretty
much a bottom of the line Athlon.

It's very easy to clock the Winchester 3200+ to 3800+ and more. But note
that that's only 20% faster.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks, robots.

 

[Mark D. Miller]

First of all, I am again both impressed and thankful for the great advice.
Based on all of the information and opinions you all have provided, I have
decided to keep my system and just upgrade the video card. Probably to an
ATI X?? series, or maybe just a 9800 PRO. That will be determined after just
a bit more research. I certainly won't rule out an NVidia board either! My
problem is that after about a year I tend to get the itch to change the
hardware, need to or not. I'm sure many in this group can relate. Anyway, a
sincere thank you again to all who replied to my post.
Mark Miller

 

[DougH]

You start itching after a year. I only just replaced a 1GHz Thunderbird I
built in 2000.

 

[DougH]

Motherboard was the ABIT KT7-RAID, same motherboard as Wes'. I decided to
skip a CPU upgrade. Being in Japan the popularity of the chip he has keeps
the price above and equivilent of $130.