Activation comments with other products beside Microsoft

  • Thread starter Thread starter Greg P Rozelle
  • Start date Start date
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Greg P Rozelle

I would like apologize for my Multiple post. I also apologize for my
ranting. I don’t mean to be rude or derogatory in anyway shape or
form to anyone or any company. This subject warrants these 3 general
groups and is a proper subject for them.

Activation comments with other products beside Microsoft
 
Activation has reduced casual piracy substantially just as it was intended to. No it
will not stop someone bent on pirating but it does stop those that normally would not
pirate but are not aware that what they are doing is against the commitment they made
when they first installed their software. I have only once had Activation take up
more then a few seconds of my time and that was when I had made several changes in
hardware and had to do a phone activation. It went much smoother then I expected
with voice activation taking my list of numbers and providing my activation sequence
back to me. Total time including wait time less then 10 minutes.

So Activation has done exactly what it was intended to do. It came about as the
statistics showed that over 50% of the copies of Win98 and Millennium being installed
were pirated copies and a large percentage of them were of the casual variety. It
has not been nearly so intrusive as many expected. I would expect the trend for
others to use activation to continue. That is unless everyone starts purchasing the
software they use rather then just borrowing their Brother in laws CD for a couple
days. :-)
 
I have no problem with the Windows XP activation. It the methods used by
some other companies. Norton AntiVirus 2004, for example, has a cap of 5
installs for their program. I am presently trouble shooting a conflict
between their program and the pagefile. I have already installed and
activated 3 times. They say nothing about extending it past 5 times under
these circumstances!
 
I worry about two things regarding activation.

1) I dislike there's no certainty I can install it on any pc anytime,
anywhere I want to.

blah ... blah ... blah ... that's the reality. If it comes to an argument,
it'd be no different than the power company, phone company, cable etc. etc.
If they "think" they're right (for any reason) they'll shut you off and it
then becomes a real committment to rectify the error, seldom with any
apology or renumeration for your effort even if proven it was never your
"fault" and should never have happened.

2) It's a stepping stone to a model where we pay for every use of the
software.

It strongly suspect MS wants to take us is to a place where your pc is more
or less a "terminal" downloading various modules/components at runtime and
as needed for some fee. The current market certainly wouldn't tolerate that
model right now but how about after people get used to having to register,
downloading patches and updates, automatically doing ..., dmr rights, ...
etc. I strongly suspect that at it's highest levels, MS has some "plan"
mapping out the steeping stones in how to lead the public to accept the
thinking that it's all in our best interests.

My "free to me" XP still sits on shelf. Never been installed on any pc yet.
My pc running 98SE does everything I ever wanted/dreamed a pc would do for
me starting 20+ years ago now when I stopped dealing with mini's etc., e.g.
audio, video specifically. Seems all the emphasis now is too make you a more
efficient consumer, something I have little interest in, so why bother?
 
Gary Woodruff

I wont be buying any software that requires activation. I have read
some people who never used a crack. Have started using a crack. I
have not for the record.

I really doubt they would get in trouble for using a crack. Reason is
they legally purchase the software. All they would have to show the
receipt to the police officer or court.

This is a new territory. Legally purchasing something but disabling
something you don’t want.

If Microsoft tried to sue people with the activation crack. Microsoft
would have to go after Shane Brooks for making 98lite, 2000, xp lite.
http://www.litepc.com/

They would claim you violated the eula by using the Crack. Shane
Brooks has over & over. Shane can also claim the statue of limitation
has passed.

Don't foget what happen with turbo tax. They removed it.
http://news.com.com/2100-1046-1001649.html?tag=nl

Kurttrail is right on this one thing,.
We don't know 100% if Eula is legally enforceable.

The problem is not the consumers, not crackers, It the companies
themselves. They sold their products to scrupulous dealers,
resellers, companies, e.t.c. Of course this is my opinion-I could be
wrong.

No derogatory and No Accusation are meant against Microsoft, Shane
Brooks, or anyone else. I don't mean to be rude in anyway, shape or
form. All of this is just My views and Opinions.

Greg P Rozelle

Disclaimer
My advice is as-is. It could trash your system.
 
Gary said:
Activation has reduced casual piracy substantially just as it was
intended to. No it will not stop someone bent on pirating but it
does stop those that normally would not pirate but are not aware that
what they are doing is against the commitment they made when they
first installed their software. I have only once had Activation take
up more then a few seconds of my time and that was when I had made
several changes in hardware and had to do a phone activation. It
went much smoother then I expected with voice activation taking my
list of numbers and providing my activation sequence back to me.
Total time including wait time less then 10 minutes.

So Activation has done exactly what it was intended to do. It came
about as the statistics showed that over 50% of the copies of Win98
and Millennium being installed were pirated copies and a large
percentage of them were of the casual variety. It has not been
nearly so intrusive as many expected. I would expect the trend for
others to use activation to continue. That is unless everyone starts
purchasing the software they use rather then just borrowing their
Brother in laws CD for a couple days. :-)

Soon to reinstall all your software after a major hardware
upgrade, you'll have to spend half your day on the phone explaining to
different software companies that you upgraded your computer. Then that
hardware fails and you have to send it back for repairs. So you put in
your old hardware to get you by in the mean time. Bang, Bang, Bang,
Bang, Bang! There goes another day shot down the tubes on the phone
explaining that it still your effin' computer, just different hardware
because of defective hardware you just upgraded to. Then 45 days later
the manufacturer decides not to fix your hardware, but replace it &
actually send it to you, by the slowest means possible, you tear your
computer apart again, reinstall everything, spend another day on the
phone explaining to all your buddies at all the software companies, that
you really aren't a thief, just having a little bit of trouble
maintaining a functioning computer. Now a month or so goes by, and you
find that the hardware is really just a piece of sh*t, and go out and
replace it, writing off the sh*t as a lost cause. Bang, Bang, Bang,
Bang, Bang! Another day shot to hell, at best, with all these different
companies differing activations policies, it might just be a lot worse.

This scenario with the hardware actually happened to me with
multifunction Mobo's this year, thank god I only had to go though it
with MS over Office XP, but soon who knows what it's really gonna be
like when all the members of the BSA Trust adopt PA, but it not gonna
make the overall computing experience any friendlier or easier, that
much I can say. All I really know is that I think I just may have to
reconsider "borrowing" a friend's pre-SP1 copy of Office 2000, and just
save myself from any further Activation hassle in the future!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.kurttrail.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Gary said:
Responses in line.


Yep, the ownership of a license is going to be the important thing.
But Cracked copies are more of a pain then WPA. Take the SP1 issues
for instance. Look at my response to Kurt, a bad implementation of
Activation will always run people off. A good one should go pretty
much unnoticed as MS's has.


I remember the little issue with the ID tag Intel put on the PIII and
newer chips. People were paying a premium for PII450's for a few
weeks and then downloading the little script to deactivate the ID tag
for a few months. Now every chip has that ID tag and no one seems to
notice. :-)


They didn't and they will not. This issue for MS is not what many
try to make it out to be. And I hope this mentioning of 98lite does
not bring Bruce Jensen and his other personalities like Rachel out of
the wood work either. :-)


Yes, I was one that quit buying their product because it was an
extremely poor implementation of Activation with too severe of
install limitations and nuisance problems. Both TurboTax and TaxCut
will have versions of Activation in future products. They will just
have to be much higher quality versions for the public to stand for
them.


But we do know a company has to make money to stay in business. When
ever piracy both bold and casual goes over 50% of the installs you
create the absolute necessity for Activation or something like it. I
was very skeptical at first but after meeting those responsible for
implementing MS's WPA I had a good feeling it would not be allowed to
become a problem.


Here I have to disagree. One should be able to leave their car on
the street with the keys in it and find it sitting there when the
return, as I did when I was 16. When the public has so few that will
do the right thing just because it is the right thing then some type
of enforcement is necessary. And don't think MS doesn't go after the
bold Pirates because they do with great zeal. I always find it
interesting that those that speak here against WPA are almost always
people who wouldn't think of pirating software such as Kurt and
yourself. It is a sorry state for society to get into such a
position that we end up where we are. But a company can not stay in
business when a young person looks at you just after admitting that
they have hundreds of songs the they did not pay for on their
computer that they pirated the OS and most of the software on it and
says "what do you mean that isn't right, no one stopped me". They
possibly wouldn't consider stealing the computer off the back of the
Dell truck, but they see nothing wrong with not paying for the use of
another person or companies intellectual products mostly because they
can do it and there is nothing to stop them. That is why WPA exist
today and why you can expect to see more of it on other products in
the future.


None seen by me. I like good discussions on any subject. This one
is one that is very controversial and the more discussion the better
change we will end up with something we can live with. I think
everyone should make it clear to those companies out there
considering Product Activation. If you are going to do that then you
had better do your best to consider your Customers right to use the
software in their own home with a minimum of restrictions and it had
better not cause a lot of nuisance problems or we will find another
product.

With $49 billion in cash reserves, what is the justification for all
this loss you are claiming due to causual copying? You have to go to
Asia, where MS is drastically cutting the prices of their software, to
find total piracy rates above 50%. Piracay has been declining in the
Western World, and Globally since 1994, long before PA. Why should
anyone be screwed out of their computer, due to the multiple PA errors
that people have been experiencing and have shared to this group, when
MS is selling the same basic [and in some cases with PA disabled]
software to Asian countries, that have the highest piracy rates, for a
fraction of what non-pirating nations consumers have to pay?

I bought all that piracy BS when I plunked down $500 bucks for Office
XP. But now that all of the BSA Trust seems to be implementings various
versions of PA-type copy-protection, consumers that have to reinstall
all of their software because of a problem, will have a much harder time
of it, than they are already are, having to prove to each company that
they are just trying to use the software that they paid their
hard-earned money for, and aren't trying to steal anything. Paying
consumers are not theives!

When Software Manufacturers back up their products for ALL defects in
their products, then they may have a point, but until then, consumers
have to eat all the defects, plus prove they are trying to steal these
unwarrented products too!

Where do these technological controls on consumer products gonna lead
our society in the future? Will we be free to pull down our shorts,
without some technology entering it in some database somewhere?

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.kurttrail.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Bill said:
I have Office 2000 (w/o the service packs), and after I installed it,
I was told I only have 50(?) (I can't remember) times or days? to use
it w/o activation (and it would be disabled). So I don't think SP1
has anything to do with it - does it?

Then you probably have a O2KSP1 CD that came with activation, or maybe
the Academic version.

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.kurttrail.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Gary Woodruff
May I asked why you are for activation?

I just don't want set around all day activating my software &
computer. I guess I should tell you my belief.

My believe is once you buy a product. You should not have to do any
thing else to use it. I would of got a computer without xp. I had
bad luck with a computer shop. I just don't want it to come to other
products like Tv, Stereos, Cd players, Landline telephones. I not
talking about the services-that's different .

However, I called emachine and asked if I could put 98se on it-before
I bought the computer. They said yes. I just use xp as a tinker
system. I dual boot bettween xp & 98se. Most days I never use xp.
I keep it updated. Eventually I may get rid of it. If it ever
comes down were computers and all software has to be activated and I
have NO choice. I wouldn't get another computer. Hopefully Linuxs
and Macs system won't go to activation and yes I am already aware of
Red Hat but that's for support and you can still use it.

I probably would not get another computer anyway. To many web sites
have switched from free service to pay service. I even thinking right
now of stopping this Internet service by the end of September. Even
through I would miss posting & helping people. I paid through end of
September


Greg P Rozelle


Disclaimer
My advice is as-is. It could trash your system.
 
kurttrail said:
How many people have to get screwed before you think PA is a PITA?

When they become some significant percentage of the number of casually pirated copies
of software. And those numbers are far apart.
 
Greg said:
Gary Woodruff
May I asked why you are for activation?

Because people particularly the younger generation see no problem with using software
without paying for it. No one no matter if it is one coder on the corner or a major
corporation should have their intellectual product stolen.
I just don't want set around all day activating my software &
computer. I guess I should tell you my belief.

My believe is once you buy a product. You should not have to do any
thing else to use it. I would of got a computer without xp. I had
bad luck with a computer shop. I just don't want it to come to other
products like Tv, Stereos, Cd players, Landline telephones. I not
talking about the services-that's different .

I agree completely Greg. When you buy the computer you "had" to pay for it and you
can not duplicate it. But people constantly just hand their CD to friends and
relatives and allow them to use the software. I had a young college student in my
house today that has thousands of songs and dozens of installs of software on his
computer and he sees nothing wrong with it. Because no one did anything to stop him.
The only products he has ever paid for are the ones that came with his computer and
those with activation.
However, I called emachine and asked if I could put 98se on it-before
I bought the computer. They said yes. I just use xp as a tinker
system. I dual boot bettween xp & 98se. Most days I never use xp.
I keep it updated. Eventually I may get rid of it. If it ever
comes down were computers and all software has to be activated and I
have NO choice. I wouldn't get another computer. Hopefully Linuxs
and Macs system won't go to activation and yes I am already aware of
Red Hat but that's for support and you can still use it.

I probably would not get another computer anyway. To many web sites
have switched from free service to pay service. I even thinking right
now of stopping this Internet service by the end of September. Even
through I would miss posting & helping people. I paid through end of
September

I would hate to see you do that, but the web and the software all cost to produce or
maintain. Someone has to pay for that.
 
Roonie Vernon
Activation would now fit any general computer group now.

I was not really talking about the WPA at first I was talking about
product activation of other products. I would pay $20 extra not to
have any type of activation requirements.

One thing is Kurttrail is right he is not alone is people don't want
products with activation and their are other people & business as
well. I don't. Some businesses have even switched over to Linux.
This is a fact. I read it from Cnet news. Cnet even said they didn't
like activation and Microsoft is somewhat connected.


Disclaimer
No derogatory comment are meant against Microsoft, Cnet or anyone
else.

Greg Rozelle

Disclaimer
My advice is as-is. It could trash your system.
 
Gary Woodruff wrote:

I agree completely Greg. When you buy the computer you "had" to pay forit and you
can not duplicate it. But people constantly just hand their CD to friends and
relatives and allow them to use the software.

I think the aspect that swung me to realising that Microsoft *had* to do
something, was the story - from a reliable source - of the law firm with
about fifteen machines, and a *single* legally purchased retail copy
between them. So a lot of feedback went in to Microsoft from people
like Gary and me to try to ensure that the WPA system caused as little
pain as possible. I think this was successful.

To say

Seems to me gross exaggeration - in relation to the way MS do it. But
other companies, if they are going to do something equivalent, have got
to learn how to make it nearly painless. And from the look of it people
like Symantec have not learned.
 
Ronnie said:
<Crossposting to forums where WPA is not an issue snipped>


-->What do cash reserves have to do with a company making a profit or
protecting their products from piracy?

Well a company that is being hurt by theft, wouldn't have cash reserves
that keep growing & growing.

The only
-->thing that having this much in cash reserves proves is that they
are a successful enterprise.

That gets its paying customer to make up for any theft of their product
in the price of it.
You have to go to Asia, where MS is drastically cutting the prices
of their software, to find total piracy rates above 50%. Piracay
has been declining in the Western World, and Globally since 1994,
long before PA.
Why should anyone be screwed out of their computer, due to the
multiple PA errors that people have been experiencing and have
shared to this group, when
MS is selling the same basic [and in some cases with PA disabled]
software to Asian countries, that have the highest piracy rates, for
a fraction of what non-pirating nations consumers have to pay?

-->They are doing what they have to do in Asia. Dealing with a
foreign legal system and a less than scrupulous government -->is not
easy. But if this does put those pirates out of business, it will be
worth the effort and the loss.

While we of the non-pirating nations pay for it through the teeth, and
we get to pay more to treated as the potential thieves!
-->What WPA errors?

http://snurl.com/22tv

It's been a long time since there was a reported
problem that was a result of WPA not working
-->as designed.

http://snurl.com/27l9

When there is a problem, it is usually caused by the
user not understanding how to use the activation
-->properly or by someone taking less than ethical advice and trying
to lie their way through an activation.

Really? And you have something more than suspicion to prove this?
-->Nope, no more mooning in public for you Kurttrail.

LOL! I mooned Gov. Kean of NJ when I was at college, but that was a
couple of decades ago!

If you do this
anywhere in public today, it will likely be caught on
-->video tape by a security camera. :) When you walk into a retail
store today, it's likely that you will be under surveillance
-->every minute that you are in the store. After you buy what you
came to buy, you will most likely be stopped at the door -->and have
your bag checked to make sure that you didn't steal something between
the checkout and door. Why?
-->Because you have a history of shoplifting? No, they watch everyone
because that's the only way to catch the occasional -->thieves.
Security cameras, WPA, airport searches and all of the other
intrusions into our privacy that we have to endure -->are the result
of the thieves and other less than ethical people who take no
responsibility for their own actions and
-->make the innocent public pay. Microsoft isn't the bad guy in this
real life play.

I was talking about dropping my shorts in private, and have some
technology reporting about it! Technoloical controls are still in it's
infancy. They ain't even walking yet. What they will grow up into
doesn't bode well.
-->Your fighting the symptoms while supporting the disease.

That's what the legal system is for! I'm just trying to help my fellow
law-abiding citizens to be able to use the product they legally buy as
easily as possible, and technologies like PA & DRM do not add anything
to the ease of use of a computer!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.kurttrail.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
Gary said:
When they become some significant percentage of the number of
casually pirated copies of software. And those numbers are far apart.

Show me the numbers!

All I know is that it is a PITA to all those that have already
experienced these licensed check errors, and MS does warrent any defect
in it's product, including in it's technological controls, that is of
absolutely no use to the End User!

--
Peace!
Kurt
Self-anointed Moderator
microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
http://microscum.kurttrail.com
"Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
"Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei!"
 
To Alex Nichol
Seems to me gross exaggeration - in relation to the way MS do it. But
other companies, if they are going to do something equivalent, have got
to learn how to make it nearly painless. And from the look of it people
like Symantec have not learned.

I am not exaggerating Here are the products that require activation.
I know some are not for the home user.

Microsoft, Adobe, Autodesk, Intuit, Symantec, QuarkXPress, Liant;s
Novell, Netscape, Mathsoft, Borland, Rent right, ScanSoft,
StarNet,TaxWiz ,Wolfram Research,enterprise network tools,
Active software, cooman software, kabira, macromedia, PlanetPress
Suite , macrovision and others have product activation. Yes. I know
Netscape's is different. Some companies have more that one product
that require activation.

Kurttrail is right on a lot of things he has said. Now here is the
proof he needs. You Might want to take a look at this.

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_news_pressreleases_archives.php?id=7


Here the sites were I got some info
http://www.vttoth.com/dontactivate.asp
http://www.macromedia.com/software/activation/plans.html
http://www.vyapin.com/products/enterprisenetworktools/ent_support.htm
http://activate.reliasoft.com/
http://www.kabira.com/products/provisioning.html
Did a Search on Yahoo & Altavista.

I went to some of those web sites listed . Some will be really picky
on reactivation. Partitioning a hard drive could cause it not to
work.


Greg P Rozelle
--=20
Alex Nichol MS MVP (Windows Technologies)
Bournemouth, U.K. (e-mail address removed)

Snipped

Disclaimer
My advice is as-is. It could trash your system.
 
kurttrail, after spending 3 minutes figuring out which end of the pen to use,
wrote:
Show me the numbers!

All I know is that it is a PITA to all those that have already
experienced these licensed check errors, and MS does warrent any defect
in it's product, including in it's technological controls, that is of
absolutely no use to the End User!

He *can't* show any numbers, and he knows it. Unless he thinks that everyone
who's ever used XPee knows about this NG and they *all* posted in here. He's
pulling everything out of his ass, when what he *should* be doing, is pulling
his nose out of M$' ass, and start actually thinking on his own.

Joh N.
 
Gary Woodruff
I know I am getting a little off subject here. Sorry, I can tell
your are or were teacher or a professor or you talk like one. I mean
no offense by following statement. We are teaching kids are about
computers in schools . Why are we teaching them not to share software
except for freeware & Public licenses programs of course? And the
Differences of Licenses.

Here where I think people get the Idea of Sharing Cd programs.
You Borrow a friend Music Cd to listen to it on your cd player, then
return it. They have actual think this is ok to do with software.
Also, Programs like Napstar caused the problem as well.

I think it is based about 50 years back. We each bought a different
comic book and then traded them. Buy one and read ten. No thought of
there being anything wrong with the trading. When 25¢ was your weeks
allowance and comics cost 10¢, you didn't throw your money around.
I just hope my sound themes & Wallpaper are ok.

Greg P Rozelle

Disclaimer
My advice is as-is. It could trash your system.

BoB
 
Yes, we did that too; but it wasn't illegal. You didn't copy the comic and
pass it around, you took the original which you paid for and loaned it to
another. When he or she was done with it, the entire package was returned
to you intact for your exclusive use again or for you to loan out again.

By the way, that's still done today, it's called a "LIBRARY". I don't see
the RIAA trying to close down libraries, even though they have copyrighted
music and movies available for others, because they are following the rules.
 

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