Access vs SQL

[Cor Ligthert]

TC,

You make in my opinion a mistake what is a database. For a database is not
even SQL required (In the last case we are mostly talking about a relational
database). It only needs that the data is accessable in a random way and
that there is an ability to replace parts of the data when there is an
update, delete or insert.

Cor

 

[Richard Myers]

Cor you're wrong.
TC you're being pedantic.
I hope neither of you are customer facing for your respective firms.

Richard

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Richard,

Cor Ligthert wrote:

Cor you're wrong.
TC you're being pedantic.
I hope neither of you are customer facing for your respective firms.

Will you explain what is wrong in my statement?

Cor

 

[Richard Myers]

JT already has.

Richard,



Will you explain what is wrong in my statement?

Cor

 

[aatcbbtccctc]

I hope neither of you are customer facing for your respective firms.

What an arrogant comment. This is a technical discussion forum, not a
shop front counter. I believe that technical accuracy is important in a
technical forum. You obviousy disagree. I leave readers to judge for
themselves.

Goodbye.

TC

 

[aatcbbtccctc]

You miss my point as to which components perform what tasks.

I don't intend to comment further.

Cheers,
TC

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Richard,

No he did not on my question too you to explain why you wrote that this
statement from me is not true.

At least you should tell why?

Cor

 

[Cor Ligthert]

TC,

Sorry, your points sounds for me as splitting hairs.

Which sounds for me the same as if you want to tell that somebody born in
the US is not an American but an USan and somebody born in the EU is not
an European but an EUan.

Everybody visiting this newsgroups knows what is meant (and use that in
relation) by the Access database and are in the same way telling about MS
Access that it is an application.

Just my thought,

Cor

 

[Richard Myers]

Richard,

No he did not on my question too you to explain why you wrote that this
statement from me is not true.


At least you should tell why?

Nope. Im currently eating ice cream with a fork which seems much more
interesting than continuing with this thread.
If you dont get it then thats fine, i really dont care either way. Check
out MSDN or alternatively try Access Help Files.

Richard

 

[Paul Clement]

On 10 Apr 2005 18:58:31 -0700, (e-mail address removed) wrote:

¤ Not so, Cor.
¤
¤ MS Access does not contain any of the base technologies for creating &
¤ managing tables & indexes; parsing, optimizing & executing SQL; or any
¤ of the other things that database products have to do.
¤
¤ Those technologies all reside in a completely seperate product, MS Jet.
¤ Access uses the Jet API to create & maintain tables & indexes, execute
¤ SQL, and so on.
¤

This is incorrect.

I'm not sure why you're attempting to separate Jet from Microsoft Access. Each version of Microsoft
Access is actually hard-wired for a specific version of Jet and the functionality is essentially
integrated. You can also use DAO, ADO etc (independently) to work with an Access database directly
or via OLEDB or ODBC drivers but there isn't the same level of support as when using the Microsoft
Access application.

¤ Access does ask Jet (via a Jet API) to create, within the MDB file,
¤ some containers for Access to store its own things (forms, reports
¤ etc.) - but that does not make Access, a database.
¤

Huh?

¤ I suspect your mistake is in believing that an MDB file is an *Access*
¤ file. It is not - it is a *Jet* file, in which Access is able to store
¤ its own things (in addition to the standard Jet things).
¤

Baloney. It can contain data, code and database related objects that are native to the Microsoft
Access application. An MDB file *is* an Access database.

¤ A VB program can use a Jet MDB file for database storage; but VB is not
¤ Access, and does not require Access to be present in any way, shape or
¤ form.

That is, unless you attempt to use functionality that is not supported by Jet, but is only available
through the Microsoft Access application.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

 

[Scott M.]

How about if we say that an .mdb file is an Access file that wraps a JET
database and adds extensions of its own?

"Can't we all just get along?"

I think the fundamental point here is that there is no such thing as DATA
stored in Access format. An Access file is DATA stored in a JET database
along with Access elements such as reports, forms, VBA code, etc. and all of
that is placed in an Access .mdb file.

The proof in the pudding is that the data stored in an Access file can be
programmatically accessed and manipulated without having the Access client
because the actual data is not stored in an Access format, but in a JET
database.

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Scott,

I think the fundamental point here is that there is no such thing as DATA
stored in Access format. An Access file is DATA stored in a JET database
along with Access elements such as reports, forms, VBA code, etc. and all
of that is placed in an Access .mdb file.

And what does that mean in your opinion about any other database. In this
thread is by one person denied that an Access datatase is a database. He
tells that it is a kind of application that uses a Jet database. What is not
false, however is in my opinion with an Access database normaly used the
same database and when we talk about the application we talk about MS Access
(at least I do).

Cor

 

[Scott M.]

And what does that mean in your opinion about any other database.

We're not talking about other databases in this thread. Access is special
in this regard.

In this thread is by one person denied that an Access datatase is a
database. He tells that it is a kind of application that uses a Jet
database.

Actually, I think pretty much everyone in this thread (except you) has said
this...because it's true.

What is not false, however is in my opinion with an Access database normaly
used the same database and when we talk about the application we talk about
MS Access (at least I do).

It's true that for most discussions, people will tend to say "Access" when
talking about the MS Access software product as well as when they are
referring to the "type" of database they are using. For *most*
conversations that is fine because most people will know what you mean.

For the purpose of this thread though, we must get a bit more technical and
separate the database from the product that uses that database.

Technically speaking, there is no such database storage format as "Access",
there is the JET database storage format that Access uses and wraps.

Think about this for a second Cor...if I wanted to connect to the data
stored in a MS Access file (.mdb), I'd have several choices:

DAO - DAO is a data access paradigm that ONLY works with JET databases

ADO - ADO would need a connection object and the connection object would
need a connection string. The connection string would be this:
Proider=Microsoft.JET.4.0;Data Source=.... (notice the JET in there?)

ADO.NET - same as ADO

 

[Paul Clement]

¤ How about if we say that an .mdb file is an Access file that wraps a JET
¤ database and adds extensions of its own?
¤
¤ "Can't we all just get along?"
¤

What's the fun in that? ;-)

¤ I think the fundamental point here is that there is no such thing as DATA
¤ stored in Access format. An Access file is DATA stored in a JET database
¤ along with Access elements such as reports, forms, VBA code, etc. and all of
¤ that is placed in an Access .mdb file.
¤
¤ The proof in the pudding is that the data stored in an Access file can be
¤ programmatically accessed and manipulated without having the Access client
¤ because the actual data is not stored in an Access format, but in a JET
¤ database.

So can an Excel Workbook. So can a CSV file. Does that make them "Jet databases"?

Jet is the database access layer component for Microsoft Access. It does not define any specific
type of database. It is not a product and many who use Access have absolutely no awareness of Jet.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Paul,

So can an Excel Workbook. So can a CSV file. Does that make them "Jet
databases"?

Thanks for pointing us on that.

Cor

 

[Cor Ligthert]

Scott,

We're not talking about other databases in this thread. Access is special
in this regard.

Before you write next time something, look than at least at the topic.

Actually, I think pretty much everyone in this thread (except you) has
said this...because it's true.

Read the messages, I have not the idea beside you and the one who told that
Microsoft don't know what Access is wrote the same as you.

Look for the rest too the answer from Paul.

Cor

 

[Scott M.]

Jet is the database access layer component for Microsoft Access. It does

not define any specific
type of database. It is not a product and many who use Access have
absolutely no awareness of Jet.

It's true that most who use Access don't know anything about JET. That only
proves that Access wraps the JET database.

Tell me, what is the connection string in ADO or ADO.NET to connect to an
..mdb file?
Tell me, what is the only kind of data that DAO can connect to?

 

[Scott M.]

And what does that mean in your opinion about any other database.
-----> Before you write next time something, look than at least at the
topic.

Cor, the last several times you have replied to my comments in other
threads, you have come back at me with cryptic responses like this one.
What are you trying to say? I have read this thread and my posts are very
clear on what I'm saying. Your posts, on the other hand, are contradictory
and confusing.

Actually, I think pretty much everyone in this thread (except you) has

-----> Read the messages, I have not the idea beside you and the one who
told that
-----> Microsoft don't know what Access is wrote the same as you.

I have absolutley no idea what you are trying to say here.

Look for the rest too the answer from Paul.

Paul has posted 1 message in this thread prior to my comment to you and I
disagree with him as well.

 

[Scott M.]

From:

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/sql/7/all/proddocs/en-us/msjet/jetintro.mspx

"Since its introduction in 1992, the Microsoft Jet database engine has been
in a unique position. Because Microsoft Jet is not a stand-alone product -
you cannot buy it at your local software retailer - most developers who use
it have learned about its functionality in a second-hand fashion from the
documentation included in Microsoft Access, Microsoft Office, Microsoft
Visual Basic®, Microsoft Visual C++®, or Microsoft Visual J++®. "

 

[Scott M.]

From:

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/sql/7/all/proddocs/en-us/msjet/jetintro.mspx

"Since its introduction in 1992, the Microsoft Jet database engine has been
in a unique position. Because Microsoft Jet is not a stand-alone product -
you cannot buy it at your local software retailer - most developers who use
it have learned about its functionality in a second-hand fashion from the
documentation included in Microsoft Access, Microsoft Office, Microsoft
Visual Basic®, Microsoft Visual C++®, or Microsoft Visual J++®. "