A7N8X-E Deluxe and DDR400 - Inherently Unstable?

[oceanclub]

I have a set-up which includes the following:

* Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
* 1 stick 1G Crucial DDR400 memory

Everything is fine, except for World of Warcraft, which crashes
regularly with a "the memory can not be read" error. When I posted
on the WOW support forum, I was told that this is because the
above combination is inherently unstable. I find this hard to believe,
since the above motherboard is one of the most popular out there,
and most people would be using DDR400 memory with it, I imagine.
I've used both MemTest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic without
errors. And I've never seen a crash in other memory-instensive games
(Counter-Strike Source/HL2) I've played.

Anyone heard of this problem?

P.

 

[Rob Hemmings]

I have a set-up which includes the following:

* Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe
* 1 stick 1G Crucial DDR400 memory

Everything is fine, except for World of Warcraft, which crashes
regularly with a "the memory can not be read" error. When I posted
on the WOW support forum, I was told that this is because the
above combination is inherently unstable. I find this hard to believe,
since the above motherboard is one of the most popular out there,
and most people would be using DDR400 memory with it, I imagine.
I've used both MemTest86 and Windows Memory Diagnostic without
errors. And I've never seen a crash in other memory-instensive games
(Counter-Strike Source/HL2) I've played.

Anyone heard of this problem?

Not with 1 stick of Crucial RAM running in single channel mode, no.
I'd be tempted to try an *independent* WoW forum. FWIW, I'd
suspect a problem with your graphics card (possibly bad VRAM
or overheating) or just poor support for your particular graphics
card within WoW.
Try running 3dmark05 - if it runs that ok, your hardware is probably
fine.
HTH

 

[oceanclub]

Not with 1 stick of Crucial RAM running in single channel mode, no.

I'd be tempted to try an *independent* WoW forum.

Personally, I thought it sounded strange. But believe it or not the
official forums are far better than the fan-boyism from, say,
alt.games.warcraft (with one helpful exception, I mainly got a chorus
of "obviously your hardware sucks, dude").

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I was being fobbed off. They
made it sound like an "official" issue, but no reference was given.

FWIW, I'd
suspect a problem with your graphics card (possibly bad VRAM
or overheating)

Well, I have a Radeon 9800 Pro with a VGA silencer (extra cooling)
attached, so I'd be surprised but it's possible. I've had it 1.5 years,
no problems at all, with quite a few games/demoes thrown at it.

or just poor support for your particular graphics card within WoW.

Again, possible, though the Radeon 9800 is pretty common.

Try running 3dmark05 - if it runs that ok, your hardware is probably
fine.

Will try that later,

Cheers,

P.

--
-pm

http://oceanclub.blogspot.com

"Plagarism is the highest form of art just as theft is the
highest form of commerce."

 

[Kyle]

| > Not with 1 stick of Crucial RAM running in single channel mode,
no.
| > I'd be tempted to try an *independent* WoW forum.
|
| Personally, I thought it sounded strange. But believe it or not the
| official forums are far better than the fan-boyism from, say,
| alt.games.warcraft (with one helpful exception, I mainly got a
chorus
| of "obviously your hardware sucks, dude").
|
| Anyway, I just wanted to know if I was being fobbed off. They
| made it sound like an "official" issue, but no reference was given.
|
| > FWIW, I'd
| > suspect a problem with your graphics card (possibly bad VRAM
| > or overheating)
|
| Well, I have a Radeon 9800 Pro with a VGA silencer (extra cooling)
| attached, so I'd be surprised but it's possible. I've had it 1.5
years,
| no problems at all, with quite a few games/demoes thrown at it.
|
| > or just poor support for your particular graphics card within WoW.
|
| Again, possible, though the Radeon 9800 is pretty common.
|
| > Try running 3dmark05 - if it runs that ok, your hardware is
probably
| > fine.
|
| Will try that later,
|


I have the same setup (almost) in my gaming rig, nary a problem with
any games, so it is my opinion someone is blowing smoke up your back
side.

 

[Paul]

Not with 1 stick of Crucial RAM running in single channel mode, no.
I'd be tempted to try an *independent* WoW forum.

Personally, I thought it sounded strange. But believe it or not the
official forums are far better than the fan-boyism from, say,
alt.games.warcraft (with one helpful exception, I mainly got a chorus
of "obviously your hardware sucks, dude").

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I was being fobbed off. They
made it sound like an "official" issue, but no reference was given.

FWIW, I'd
suspect a problem with your graphics card (possibly bad VRAM
or overheating)

Well, I have a Radeon 9800 Pro with a VGA silencer (extra cooling)
attached, so I'd be surprised but it's possible. I've had it 1.5 years,
no problems at all, with quite a few games/demoes thrown at it.

or just poor support for your particular graphics card within WoW.

Again, possible, though the Radeon 9800 is pretty common.

Try running 3dmark05 - if it runs that ok, your hardware is probably
fine.

Will try that later,

Cheers,

P.

--
-pm

http://oceanclub.blogspot.com

"Plagarism is the highest form of art just as theft is the
highest form of commerce."[/QUOTE]

I have that board, and it is picky about RAM. And the thing is,
memtest86+ isn't guaranteed to see the problems, as the problems
would appear to be chipset noise related. Memtest86+ is a
bit "tame" for finding problems on this chipset.

My final solution to the memory problem, was to buy some CAS2
memory, as the reduced access time seemed to help. I've used
both 2x512MB and 3x512MB Crucial Ballistix PC3200 CAS2 memory,
and it worked error free, while my cheaper CAS3 memory would not.

A good test, is to get a copy of Prime95 from mersenne.org . There
is a testing option called the "Torture Test" in the menu, and
it carries out a calculation with a known answer. It is a pretty
sensitive test for computing correctness, and will tell you whether
the CPU, Northbridge, and memory are good or not. No errors are
acceptable and the test should run for hours. There is even a
Linux version, and I've run four copies of the test at the same
time under Linux.

If you find problems, and are not interested in buying new memory,
your options are:

1) Reduce the CPU clock. That will drop both the CPU and memory
clocks. This assumes a synchronous CPU/memory relationship,
which is best for performance.
2) Try running async memory. Run the CPU clock at 200MHz, and
the memory at 166MHz for example. The "83%" memory setting
would do that, when the CPU clock is at 200MHz.
3) Find a hacked BIOS. There is a "Trats" BIOS available in
both "Command Rate 1T" and "Command Rate 2T" versions. The
2T version will stabilize bad memory, at the expense of memory
bandwidth.

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=352326&highlight=a7n8x-e+trats

Basically, all of the workarounds degrade memory bandwidth, and
the AthlonXP loves memory bandwidth. So, all of the workaround,
at least to me, are unacceptable. That is why I got CAS2 memory
and fixed it for good.

Paul

 

[oceanclub]

I must admit I've never heard of the CAS* distinction. I bought my
memory from DABS, and the page there doesn't mention this figure. Do
you have any more info on it? Buying more memory is out of the question
in my case, especially as the only problem is with WOW - I'd actually
already run that Prime95 without any problems, albeit only for an hour
or so. I'm tempted to send back the motherboard itself, if it's the
problem.

P.

 

[S.Heenan]

I must admit I've never heard of the CAS* distinction. I bought my
memory from DABS, and the page there doesn't mention this figure. Do
you have any more info on it? Buying more memory is out of the
question in my case, especially as the only problem is with WOW - I'd
actually already run that Prime95 without any problems, albeit only
for an hour or so. I'm tempted to send back the motherboard itself,
if it's the problem.

P.

You should be able to run Prime 95 between 24 and 72 hours without a single
error.

If it does throw an error, the root cause could be one of many, including
slightly insufficient CPU voltage. In this case, 25mV makes a difference in
stability.

 

[Paul]

I must admit I've never heard of the CAS* distinction. I bought my
memory from DABS, and the page there doesn't mention this figure. Do
you have any more info on it? Buying more memory is out of the question
in my case, especially as the only problem is with WOW - I'd actually
already run that Prime95 without any problems, albeit only for an hour
or so. I'm tempted to send back the motherboard itself, if it's the
problem.

P.

If you are passing Prime, the next step would be to test the video
card. (I'd still let Prime95 run for at least 4 hours or so.) As Rob
Hemmings mentioned, 3DMark is one tool you can use for that.
For example, with one of the older versions of 3DMark, you can
leave the program looping in demo mode all night long, and I
had one motherboard that would never survive until the next
morning.

When I used this search engine, I got a variety of scenarios. It could
be that the program you are having trouble with, is trying to read memory
which is not mapped or intended to be accessable by the program. That
could be caused by a hardware error vectoring your game "into the
weeds", or it could be caused by a programming error (say handling
a low memory situation, due to a memory leak in the code).
There is one thread here, where TeamSpeak was implicated.

http://www.altavista.com/web/result...raft"+"the+memory+cannot+be+read"&kgs=1&kls=0

Does your video card have adequate cooling ? Are all fans running
in the computer ? Maybe things are heating up in your computer
case, when you are gaming, and some of the other testing
scenarios we are suggesting, don't do it to the same extent.

Also, is this the only error type you are getting ? Are the memory
addresses mentioned in the error messages, all over the place,
or always in the same general area ?

The testing methods we suggest here, come with no guarantees, and
are most successful when the computer parts are badly broken. If
something is just slightly out of spec, it can be damn difficult
to locate and correct.

Paul

 

[oceanclub]

Is there any way to slow down the memory _without_ slowing down the
CPU?
If I add in slower (DDR266 PC2100) memory alongside the DDR400, will
the existing motherboard
slow down to match that?

P.

 

[Paul]

Is there any way to slow down the memory _without_ slowing down the
CPU?
If I add in slower (DDR266 PC2100) memory alongside the DDR400, will
the existing motherboard
slow down to match that?

P.

There is a percentage setting for the memory. That allows the memory
to be run slower than the CPU FSB.

For example, if the CPU clock is 200MHz (=FSB400) then

"Memory Frequency" [83%] ==> 166MHz memory clock, or DDR333
"Memory Frequency" [66%] ==> 133MHz memory clock, or DDR266

HTH,
Paul

 

[Dale Brisket]

You should be able to run Prime 95 between 24 and 72 hours without a single
error.

If it does throw an error, the root cause could be one of many, including
slightly insufficient CPU voltage. In this case, 25mV makes a difference in
stability.

Love your sig, dude. Couldn't have said it better myself, though I often
try.

 

[Roy Coorne]

oceanclub schrieb:
....

If I add in slower (DDR266 PC2100) memory alongside the DDR400, will
the existing motherboard
slow down to match that?

Yes.

 

[oceanclub]

oceanclub schrieb:

Yes.

I tried that, and the results were an improvements. I was able to play
the game for about 2 hours. But yet again, I got the dreaded "memory
cannot be read" error. When I restarted, I got a "... cannot be
WRITTEN" error too, just for laughs.

I'm leaving MemTest86 to run for 24 hours today, just to see if there
are any problems at all. If not, I'm just going to assume that it's a
WOW issue (I've seen other people on their forum complaining about the
issue too.)

P.

 

[oceanclub]

I've found the following list of Qualified Vendors on the Asus site:

http://uk.asus.com/440/download/products/217/217_10.pdf

Unfortunately, Crucial isn't on it. Even more strangely, there are no
examples of 1GB sticks
on it either. Are 1GB sticks not recommended, or have they just not
updated this document
in years?

P.

 

[Paul]

I've found the following list of Qualified Vendors on the Asus site:

http://uk.asus.com/440/download/products/217/217_10.pdf

Unfortunately, Crucial isn't on it. Even more strangely, there are no
examples of 1GB sticks
on it either. Are 1GB sticks not recommended, or have they just not
updated this document
in years?

P.

I've seen a warning somewhere, that high density 1GB sticks won't work
with Nforce2. You want DIMMs that use 64Mx8 chips, and if you see
cheap and expensive DIMMs on a memory vendor web site, the more
expensive ones are generally the ones needed. Super-cheqp 1GB generic
RAM is generally the "high density" configuration (the "honest"
vendors usually give a list of chipsets known to work with such
RAM).

To see what Crucial has to say:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listpa...=ASUS&tabid=AM&model=A7N8X-E+Deluxe&submit=Go

Crucial do carry some 1GB DIMMs. They have a PC3200 CAS3 DIMM for
$161 US (a bit rich for my blood). In the "performance" section, there
is a Ballistix PC4000 3-4-4-8 listed, which might give you CAS2.5
performance when set to PC3200 (DDR400). It is $182 US, and would
be of more use in an Athlon64 motherboard.

But there are other brands of memory that will give you a CAS2 DIMM
for less money.

Capacity=1GB CAS=2 Package=184 pin Speed=PC3200 Unbuffered
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...:7862,525:8679,527:7870&bop=and&InnerCata=147

Before buying any of those, always click on the "Reviews" link that
accompanies most items. Some RAM is barely able to meet its spec,
and the reviewers will be able to tell you that.

Paul