80 pin v 40 pin drive and cable question

[senn]

I have a question.

I recently went to visit a pc repair shop.

I was there about a job but thats a different story.

I was told something about cables and drives.

I cant remember exactly.

but along these lines.

either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive or a 40
pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.

can anyone clarify this as i had never heard it before.

as I do pc support I wouldnt want to corrupt a drive by accident.

If need be I would rather pay a few bucks to stock up on the 2 types of
cable.

 

[John Doe]

....

either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive
or a 40 pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.

....

Are you talking about ordinary hard disk drive cables?

I used to receive BIOS notifications that there was no 80 pin cable
installed. I took it as a performance advisory, not a warning. It did
not kill my hard disk drive.

Whatever the difference between a 40 pin drive and an 80 pin drive,
how are you going to know? I didn't even know that is supposed to be
a specification.

 

[Ruel Smith]

I have a question.

I recently went to visit a pc repair shop.

I was there about a job but thats a different story.

I was told something about cables and drives.

I cant remember exactly.

but along these lines.

either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive or a
40 pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.

can anyone clarify this as i had never heard it before.

as I do pc support I wouldnt want to corrupt a drive by accident.

If need be I would rather pay a few bucks to stock up on the 2 types of
cable.

It'll kill the performance, as, I believe, Ultra DMA 66 and faster require
80 wire cables.

As for harming drives, I seriously doubt it. I've used 40 wire cables on
ATA100 drives before on an older computer and never had a problem.

 

[spodosaurus]

I have a question.

I recently went to visit a pc repair shop.

I was there about a job but thats a different story.

I was told something about cables and drives.

I cant remember exactly.

but along these lines.

either an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive will kill the 40 pin drive or a 40
pin cable on an 80 pin drive will kill the 80 pin drive.

can anyone clarify this as i had never heard it before.

as I do pc support I wouldnt want to corrupt a drive by accident.

If need be I would rather pay a few bucks to stock up on the 2 types of
cable.

No, whoever told you that was wrong. It will force a drive to run at
ATA33 speeds rather than the ATA66/100/133 of which it may be capable of
running. This does not apply to CDROM drives IIRC, only to hard disk drives.

Ari

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

 

[senn]

No, whoever told you that was wrong. It will force a drive to run at
ATA33 speeds rather than the ATA66/100/133 of which it may be capable of
running. This does not apply to CDROM drives IIRC, only to hard disk drives.

so,

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

and will there be gradual data corruption due to different types?

 

[Rich Webb]

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector. [*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.

 

[senn]

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector. [*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.

ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to data
corruption or drive problems?

 

[spodosaurus]

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector. [*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.

ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to data
corruption or drive problems?

All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.

Cheers,

Ari


--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

 

[senn]

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it faster?

You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector. [*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.

ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to data
corruption or drive problems?

All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.

ari,

so from what youre saying an 80 conductor cable on a 40 conductor drive wont
cause problems either?

 

[David Maynard]

if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it

faster?

You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector. [*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.


ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to

data

corruption or drive problems?

All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.

ari,

so from what youre saying an 80 conductor cable on a 40 conductor drive wont
cause problems either?

Correct: it won't cause problems.

And 80 conductor IDE cable has better electrical characteristics than a 40
conductor IDE cable. You don't 'have' to use it for UDMA33, although it's
recommended, but it's *required* for faster speeds.

The controller can tell which type of cable is being used and if it's 40
conductor then speeds will be limited to UDMA33, or less, regardless of the
hard drive's capability. So a UDMA100 drive will be operating UDMA33, or
less, on a 40 conductor cable. If you use an 80 conductor cable then the
drive's capability will set the speed (assuming everything else allows it)
so a UDMA100 drive will operate at UDMA100 speeds while a UDMA33 drive
would operate at UDMA33 speeds.

 

[senn]

senn wrote:



if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it
faster?

You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment force
(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector. [*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the drive
and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed for
the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer style
cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and the
slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.


ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to
data

corruption or drive problems?



All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.

ari,

so from what youre saying an 80 conductor cable on a 40 conductor drive wont
cause problems either?

Correct: it won't cause problems.

And 80 conductor IDE cable has better electrical characteristics than a 40
conductor IDE cable. You don't 'have' to use it for UDMA33, although it's
recommended, but it's *required* for faster speeds.

The controller can tell which type of cable is being used and if it's 40
conductor then speeds will be limited to UDMA33, or less, regardless of the
hard drive's capability. So a UDMA100 drive will be operating UDMA33, or
less, on a 40 conductor cable. If you use an 80 conductor cable then the
drive's capability will set the speed (assuming everything else allows it)
so a UDMA100 drive will operate at UDMA100 speeds while a UDMA33 drive
would operate at UDMA33 speeds.

glad to hear. shows im not a dummy. *lol*

Im more into teaching software skills but everyone wants me to do hardware
support so im branching into it.

and ive worked on so many ancient systems that some of the newer tech can be
hard to keep up with so better to ask than take any bs im told. i figure if
something comes from several sources then thats better than 1.

 

[David Maynard]

senn wrote:

senn wrote:





if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it

faster?


You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment

force

(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector.

[*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the

drive

and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed

for

the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer

style

cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and

the

slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.


ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to

data


corruption or drive problems?



All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.


ari,

so from what youre saying an 80 conductor cable on a 40 conductor drive

wont

cause problems either?

Correct: it won't cause problems.

And 80 conductor IDE cable has better electrical characteristics than a 40
conductor IDE cable. You don't 'have' to use it for UDMA33, although it's
recommended, but it's *required* for faster speeds.

The controller can tell which type of cable is being used and if it's 40
conductor then speeds will be limited to UDMA33, or less, regardless of
the

hard drive's capability. So a UDMA100 drive will be operating UDMA33, or
less, on a 40 conductor cable. If you use an 80 conductor cable then the
drive's capability will set the speed (assuming everything else allows it)
so a UDMA100 drive will operate at UDMA100 speeds while a UDMA33 drive
would operate at UDMA33 speeds.

glad to hear. shows im not a dummy. *lol*

Im more into teaching software skills but everyone wants me to do hardware
support so im branching into it.

and ive worked on so many ancient systems that some of the newer tech can be
hard to keep up with so better to ask than take any bs im told. i figure if
something comes from several sources then thats better than 1.

Good thinking, as there's lots of B.S. out there

Btw, the 'cable select' issue up there is correct too, but even worse.
'Typical' 40 conductor cables aren't cable select and there's also the 'Y'
cable select cable. 'Cable select' is simply a mess with the 40 conductor jobs.

It's standardized with the 80 conductor cables, though.

 

[senn]

senn wrote:




senn wrote:

wrote:




if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it

faster?


You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment
force

(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector.
[*]

There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground wires
between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the
drive

and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed
for

the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer
style

cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit error
rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice then
you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and
the

slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor CS.


ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead to

data


corruption or drive problems?



All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is capable
of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.


ari,

so from what youre saying an 80 conductor cable on a 40 conductor drive
wont

cause problems either?



Correct: it won't cause problems.

And 80 conductor IDE cable has better electrical characteristics than a 40
conductor IDE cable. You don't 'have' to use it for UDMA33, although it's
recommended, but it's *required* for faster speeds.

The controller can tell which type of cable is being used and if it's 40
conductor then speeds will be limited to UDMA33, or less, regardless of
the

hard drive's capability. So a UDMA100 drive will be operating UDMA33, or
less, on a 40 conductor cable. If you use an 80 conductor cable then the
drive's capability will set the speed (assuming everything else allows it)
so a UDMA100 drive will operate at UDMA100 speeds while a UDMA33 drive
would operate at UDMA33 speeds.

glad to hear. shows im not a dummy. *lol*

Im more into teaching software skills but everyone wants me to do hardware
support so im branching into it.

and ive worked on so many ancient systems that some of the newer tech can be
hard to keep up with so better to ask than take any bs im told. i figure if
something comes from several sources then thats better than 1.

Good thinking, as there's lots of B.S. out there

Btw, the 'cable select' issue up there is correct too, but even worse.
'Typical' 40 conductor cables aren't cable select and there's also the 'Y'
cable select cable. 'Cable select' is simply a mess with the 40 conductor jobs.

It's standardized with the 80 conductor cables, though.

by cable select i presume you mean the speed etc?

ive heard the term cable select regarding which is slave and which master.

never about actual speed.

mostly i work with ancient tech so slow is the only speed. *lol*

 

[David Maynard]

senn wrote:

senn wrote:






senn wrote:

wrote:





if i put an 80 pin cable on a 40 pin drive it wont try and run it

faster?



You can not attach an 80 >> PIN << plug to a 40 >> PIN << receptacle
(or vice versa) without applying significant percussive alignment

force


(beat it with a hammer until it mashes together).

You CAN attach an 80 CONDUCTOR, 40 pin cable to a 40 pin connector.

[*]


There are not 40 additional signals, just some additional ground

wires

between the signal wires to cut down on cross talk and coupling.

The transfer rate of the drive is limited both by the cable
characteristics and by the capabilities of the electronics on the

drive


and on the motherboard-side controller. If a drive that was designed

for


the earlier 40-conductor cable is already max'd out then the newer

style


cable won't help it. There may be a slight reduction in the bit

error

rate (as seen from the motherboard) and so fewer retransmission
requests. However, if there were enough retransmissions to notice

then

you probably would already have noticed a flaky/marginal system.

[*] Exception (there's always one, isn't there?) The old-style
40-conductor "cable select" cables had the master in the middle and

the


slave on the end. Those positions are swapped on the 80-conductor

CS.

ok. luckily you knew i meant conductor not pin. i'll remember.

so to get this straight.

running a 40 conductor drive on an 80 cable or vice versa wont lead

to

data



corruption or drive problems?



All drives are 40 pin. Some cables are 40 cinductor and some are 80
conductor. Using a 40 conductor on a drive, regardless of what it is
capable of, will not harm the drive or the data. If the drive is

capable

of burst speeds above ATA33 then the drive will be limited to ATA33
speeds unless you use an 80 conductor cable.


ari,

so from what youre saying an 80 conductor cable on a 40 conductor drive

wont


cause problems either?



Correct: it won't cause problems.

And 80 conductor IDE cable has better electrical characteristics than a

40

conductor IDE cable. You don't 'have' to use it for UDMA33, although

it's

recommended, but it's *required* for faster speeds.

The controller can tell which type of cable is being used and if it's 40
conductor then speeds will be limited to UDMA33, or less, regardless of

the


hard drive's capability. So a UDMA100 drive will be operating UDMA33, or
less, on a 40 conductor cable. If you use an 80 conductor cable then the
drive's capability will set the speed (assuming everything else allows

it)

so a UDMA100 drive will operate at UDMA100 speeds while a UDMA33 drive
would operate at UDMA33 speeds.


glad to hear. shows im not a dummy. *lol*

Im more into teaching software skills but everyone wants me to do

hardware

support so im branching into it.

and ive worked on so many ancient systems that some of the newer tech

can be

if


Good thinking, as there's lots of B.S. out there

Btw, the 'cable select' issue up there is correct too, but even worse.
'Typical' 40 conductor cables aren't cable select and there's also the 'Y'
cable select cable. 'Cable select' is simply a mess with the 40 conductor
jobs.

It's standardized with the 80 conductor cables, though.

by cable select i presume you mean the speed etc?

No, master and slave.

ive heard the term cable select regarding which is slave and which master.

That's what it is.

 

[senn]

No, master and slave.
master.

That's what it is.

sorry, as the original q was about speed of drive and cables i made a wrong
assumption.

i never set to cable select anyhow. always to master or slave as i was
taught that way to save hassles.

 

[John Doe]

senn wrote:
....


No, master and slave.

Why did you quote over 200 lines of text just to answer that simple
question?

 

[Rich Webb]

sorry, as the original q was about speed of drive and cables i made a wrong
assumption.

i never set to cable select anyhow. always to master or slave as i was
taught that way to save hassles.

Cable-select is "fixed" with 80-conductor IDE cables. It was "broken"
with the conventional 40-wire cable-select cables (but often functional,
given the lower transfer rates) in that the master position was the
connector that was the closer of the two, leaving an unterminated cable
stub hanging in the breeze if only a single drive was installed. An
unterminated transmission line is a high-impedence reflector, making the
signals bounce around, reducing the error margin, and reducing the
maximum effective transfer rate.

Imagine, then, the beauty of the Y-style cables with the IDE controller
in the middle.

80-wire IDE cable-select cables place the master at the end of the
cable, which is where it belongs in single drive systems.

In a single drive system, the drive should be at the end of the cable
whether it's set as "cable-select" or hard-wired as "single" or "master"
as appropriate.

 

[David Maynard]

Why did you quote over 200 lines of text just to answer that simple
question?

To give you something to bitch about.

 

[David Maynard]

sorry, as the original q was about speed of drive and cables i made a wrong
assumption.

i never set to cable select anyhow. always to master or slave as i was
taught that way to save hassles.

Yeah. Because it was such a mess with the 40 conductor jobs, with some
having it but most not.