8 x 10 prints and ink cost

[jonsnow3000]

I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp
8250, but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon 5200(are
small dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based printers) or
even the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That
color alway ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c. Especially when
printing photos for reference in portrait painting. My budget is in the
100-200+ range. I also thinking of using it to sell prints of my artwork.

 

[Gary Tait]

I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp
8250, but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon 5200(are
small dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based printers) or
even the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That
color alway ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c. Especially when
printing photos for reference in portrait painting. My budget is in the
100-200+ range. I also thinking of using it to sell prints of my artwork.

Well, Canon and Epson use arond 13-15ml color carts, but Epsons are a
little more agressive for cleaning, so I'd have to say the Canon.

 

[zakezuke]

I was looking at the hp 8250, but the cartridges are around 5 ml

Don't be discouraged by the small size, and actually the size ranges
from 4.5ml to 10ml

Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That color alway ran out for me in my hp
deskjet 712c

This would explain why the yellow is larger.

HP 8250: #02
Black 10ml
Cyan 4ml
Magenta 3.5ml
Yellow 6ml
L Cyan 5.5ml
L Magenta 5.5ml

While the black is only 10ml, it's rated for 480 pages, I presume at 5%
yield. I felt the same way you did, but canon has done nothing about
ink efficency in years, and their ink is the same basic stuff they've
been using for years. HP also has a closed loop cleaning system which
wastes less.

I also like the canon 5200(are small dots better extra colors?) and 6600

The ip6000/i960/epson r200 filled the quite with light magenta and
light cyan... and made for really smooth skintones even under a
magnafying glass. The ip5200 looks good, damn good, but I'd still lean
tward the more costly ip8500 with it's 8 tanks.

The HP however works really well on swellable paper which tends to
offer the longest print life... and also the longest dry time. The
Canon looks best on microporious paper which offers the least dry time
but is more prone to faiding. You can extend this by spraying your
prints with a UV shield or putting them under glass. But without a
doubt canon is faster from print dry. Epson isn't bad either.


Another consideration is bulk ink. This is very much supported by
aftermarket makers on the epson, and an r200 with external tanks is
very easy to refill and you can chuck out hundrads of prints.

The canon also has bulk ink, but your options are limited on the
ip4200/5200/6600 due to the chips in the cartridge. Manual filling of
the exiting cartridge is the only option, and bulk feed systems have to
be made your self presently.
--------

But assuming OEM ink, my bet would be on Canon ip4200/5200 for least
cost per page. Only 4 tanks to replace, use of white and small dots
for graduated colors.

The last time I crunched the numbers, the hp8250 and ip6000/960 were
actually pretty close to being on par with eachother. I lack hands on
experence with the 8250.

It's hard for me to judge the epson r200 because of it's wasteful
nature. One can manualy change out the cartridges without hitting that
cleaning cycle if one is careful. But empty cartridges tend to have 2
to 4ml of ink left in them when "I wont print it's empty". But this
the r200 dispite it's flaws is my vote for skintones. I can't say how
the 8250 is vs the i960/ip6000/ip6600.

 

[Bob Headrick]

I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp
8250, but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon
5200(are small dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based
printers) or even the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink
first? That color always ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c.

The $10 yellow ink cartridge for the Photosmart 8250 is rated at 170 4x6
photos, scale this for 8x10. For other HP printers see
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/index.html. Be aware that
ml/cartridge is a rather poor measure of print economy. Differences in
writing system efficiency (how many drops per page) and servicing
efficiency (how often and how much ink is used to keep the nozzles
clear) make a very large difference in ink economy. The Photosmart 8250
has a novel method of recirculating ink used for servicing rather then
dumping it in a large diaper in the bottom of the printer.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[jonsnow3000]

The $10 yellow ink cartridge for the Photosmart 8250 is rated at 170 4x6
photos, scale this for 8x10.

Does anybody know the page ratings for the canon and epson yellow
cartridges? Any info on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

 

[zakezuke]

Does anybody know the page ratings for the canon and epson yellow

cartridges? Any info on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

8.5x11 280p @ 5% yield if i'm not mistaken. I'd wager 28pages full
sized prints from a given cartridge at 50% yield. I have seen the
30ish to 40 DVD covers from one set of full tanks on my ip3000. For me
it's either Magenta or Yellow to go first.

 

[Burt]

I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp 8250,
but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon 5200(are small
dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based printers) or even
the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That color
alway ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c. Especially when printing
photos for reference in portrait painting. My budget is in the 100-200+
range. I also thinking of using it to sell prints of my artwork.

Your last sentence changes the whole issue. If you want to sell prints you
will have to consider the longevity of the prints your customers will pay
good money for. Epson pigmented-ink based printers are reputed to produce
prints with the most fade resistance of any inkjets at this time. Canon
dye-based ink printers can produce beautiful prints, buy fade resistance is
much lower. Canon has just brought pigment - based ink printers to market
but these are more expensive. In addition, I wouldn't want to be the first
kid on the block to own one until they are out there for a year or so and
prove to be relatively trouble free. I've read that Epson printers have
better profiles for color control. I know that Canon i960's lean a little
to the red or magenta side and have to be tweaked a bit for faces with
strong red tones.

As far as the cost of prints is concerned, several of us on this newsgroup
refill our Canon bci-6 and bci-3ebk carts with aftermarket inks formulated
for out printers. Unfortunately, the present line of pixmas, of which the
6600 is one, now have computer chips on the carts and no compatable carts
are presently available. There are a few vendors who are selling compatable
bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas, but the printer recognizes when
you use a refilled cart that had previously been used until the out of ink
signal came up on the ink monitor. It will let you continue to print after
issuing a warning. There are still some i9900 printers out there that are
selling at a reasonably good price, and there are lots of compatable carts
as well as good bulk inks out there from which to choose. (MIS, Formulabs,
and Hobbicolors seem to be the favorites with participants on this NG.)
The added benefit of the i9900 is the ability to print in larger formats.
With MIS inks and Costco glossy photo paper I guess that my i960 produces
8x10 (or 8.5x11) prints for around 30 cents or less. That is only a guess
as I've never counted the number of prints I get per cart. The ink cost is
about 10% of what Canon OEM carts cost. The only problem for you would be
the fading issue for prints you'd want to sell. The compatable inks are a
bit less resistant to fading as compared to the OEM Canon inks. Having said
that, I have had framed pictures on the wall for a year and a half that
still look great.

Bottom line - if you want to stay with Canon and if you want to refill your
carts for greatest savings in cost and if your budget will stretch a bit up
front, try to find a, i9900 before they are sold out. Great printers.

Unfortunately,

 

[jonsnow3000]

Your last sentence changes the whole issue. If you want to sell prints you
will have to consider the longevity of the prints your customers will pay
good money for. Epson pigmented-ink based printers are reputed to produce
prints with the most fade resistance of any inkjets at this time. Canon
dye-based ink printers can produce beautiful prints, buy fade resistance is
much lower. Canon has just brought pigment - based ink printers to market
but these are more expensive. In addition, I wouldn't want to be the first
kid on the block to own one until they are out there for a year or so and
prove to be relatively trouble free. I've read that Epson printers have
better profiles for color control. I know that Canon i960's lean a little
to the red or magenta side and have to be tweaked a bit for faces with
strong red tones.

As far as the cost of prints is concerned, several of us on this newsgroup
refill our Canon bci-6 and bci-3ebk carts with aftermarket inks formulated
for out printers. Unfortunately, the present line of pixmas, of which the
6600 is one, now have computer chips on the carts and no compatable carts
are presently available. There are a few vendors who are selling compatable
bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas, but the printer recognizes when
you use a refilled cart that had previously been used until the out of ink
signal came up on the ink monitor. It will let you continue to print after
issuing a warning. There are still some i9900 printers out there that are
selling at a reasonably good price, and there are lots of compatable carts
as well as good bulk inks out there from which to choose. (MIS, Formulabs,
and Hobbicolors seem to be the favorites with participants on this NG.)
The added benefit of the i9900 is the ability to print in larger formats.
With MIS inks and Costco glossy photo paper I guess that my i960 produces
8x10 (or 8.5x11) prints for around 30 cents or less. That is only a guess
as I've never counted the number of prints I get per cart. The ink cost is
about 10% of what Canon OEM carts cost. The only problem for you would be
the fading issue for prints you'd want to sell. The compatable inks are a
bit less resistant to fading as compared to the OEM Canon inks. Having said
that, I have had framed pictures on the wall for a year and a half that
still look great.

Bottom line - if you want to stay with Canon and if you want to refill your
carts for greatest savings in cost and if your budget will stretch a bit up
front, try to find a, i9900 before they are sold out. Great printers.

Unfortunately,

The hp8250 inks are rated at 100 years but some complain about it being
grainy so I don't know if it's the best choice for prints.

 

[zakezuke]

The hp8250 inks are rated at 100 years but some complain about it being

grainy so I don't know if it's the best choice for prints.

The ink is rated for 100 years on their paper. Using the same type of
paper Canon inks will have longer print life than on their own photo
glossy plus. Ilford Smooth Pearl is a legit option but i've never seen
it used on the Canon so I don't know if it looks any good. Pigments
will are more resistant to light and gas by their design.

You can get the Epson r800 referb from the Epson store "right" now for
$200 with free shipping. You can get bulk feed for the r800 and decent
pigments for long print life. While I do consider Epsons to be fickle
creatures they do offer pigment printing which is really where it's at
as far as selling prints.

There are some other options in Epson too in used circles, but I can't
remember the model numbers off the top of my head.

 

[Who]

As far as the cost of prints is concerned, several of us on this newsgroup
refill our Canon bci-6 and bci-3ebk carts with aftermarket inks formulated
for out printers. Unfortunately, the present line of pixmas, of which the
6600 is one, now have computer chips on the carts and no compatable carts
are presently available. There are a few vendors who are selling compatable
bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas, but the printer recognizes when
you use a refilled cart that had previously been used until the out of ink
signal came up on the ink monitor. It will let you continue to print after
issuing a warning. There are still some i9900 printers out there that are
selling at a reasonably good price, and there are lots of compatable carts
as well as good bulk inks out there from which to choose. (MIS, Formulabs,
and Hobbicolors seem to be the favorites with participants on this NG.)
The added benefit of the i9900 is the ability to print in larger formats.
With MIS inks and Costco glossy photo paper I guess that my i960 produces
8x10 (or 8.5x11) prints for around 30 cents or less. That is only a guess
as I've never counted the number of prints I get per cart. The ink cost is
about 10% of what Canon OEM carts cost. The only problem for you would be
the fading issue for prints you'd want to sell. The compatable inks are a
bit less resistant to fading as compared to the OEM Canon inks. Having said
that, I have had framed pictures on the wall for a year and a half that
still look great.

Can the new bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas be used in the
bci-6 cartridges for use in a IP5000? This would seem to get the best
of voth worlds.

 

[JSF]

I know that is marking hype but Kodak has a new paper that claims to keep
inkjets for 100 years even Dye based inks , has there been any test on them
yet. Before I had no luck with their papers.
Some talk about it here.
http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=26115&forum_id=56&page=2

 

[Gary Tait]

Can the new bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas be used in the
bci-6 cartridges for use in a IP5000? This would seem to get the best
of voth worlds.

Personally, I see no reason why not, except for color matching.

 

[measekite]

4ax.com:

THERER ARE NONE

 

[Edwin Pawlowski]

You are looking for the cheapest, but as a potential customer, I want the
best, not something that will save you 20¢ on a print and fade on me after 5
years. What is the selling price? Sell quality and you will be paid for
your costs and then some. Brag that you use the best ink and paper
available.

 

[jonsnow3000]

You are looking for the cheapest, but as a potential customer, I want the
best, not something that will save you 20¢ on a print and fade on me after 5
years. What is the selling price? Sell quality and you will be paid for
your costs and then some. Brag that you use the best ink and paper
available.

Scratch that last line. Those printers are out of my league price-wise.
I won't be selling prints, the whole fade issue just complicates things
way too much. I just want good skin tones as reference for my art and I
don't want to pay 38 dollars on tri-color cartridges anymore.

 

[zakezuke]

Scratch that last line. Those printers are out of my league price-wise.

I won't be selling prints, the whole fade issue just complicates things
way too much. I just want good skin tones as reference for my art and I
don't want to pay 38 dollars on tri-color cartridges anymore.

38 a cartridge doesn't matter, the the amount of prints you get per
buck. Oddly enough even though one runs out of yellow first, the price
on those suckers for the amount of prints you get isn't not all that
horrid. What is horrid is the fact that you are sucking up two extra
tanks, and it's up to you if the trade off for graduated greys and skin
tones is worth it. And even that isn't paramount when you are selling
prints as what you get per print is the real ticket. I presume you're
talking the photosmart 8450 which can be had for $130 from amazon. the
97($35) 99($25) and 100($25) will run you $85ish. And don't discount
the fact that this printer, a really good one, comes with ink, so odds
are you can sell off 30ish prints out of the box.

Something like the r800, a serious consideration, is going to run you
$95 for the ink. $200 referb from Epson directly free shipping. While
with HP you waste cyan and magenta because you run out of yellow first,
with the r800 you waste all the ink if you change on cartridge, unless
you use something like the SCC utility and change the ink without a
cleaning cycle.

Something like the Canon isn't so bad changing one tank at a time.

 

[jonsnow3000]

38 a cartridge doesn't matter, the the amount of prints you get per
buck. Oddly enough even though one runs out of yellow first, the price
on those suckers for the amount of prints you get isn't not all that
horrid. What is horrid is the fact that you are sucking up two extra
tanks, and it's up to you if the trade off for graduated greys and skin
tones is worth it. And even that isn't paramount when you are selling
prints as what you get per print is the real ticket. I presume you're
talking the photosmart 8450 which can be had for $130 from amazon. the
97($35) 99($25) and 100($25) will run you $85ish. And don't discount
the fact that this printer, a really good one, comes with ink, so odds
are you can sell off 30ish prints out of the box.

Something like the r800, a serious consideration, is going to run you
$95 for the ink. $200 referb from Epson directly free shipping. While
with HP you waste cyan and magenta because you run out of yellow first,
with the r800 you waste all the ink if you change on cartridge, unless
you use something like the SCC utility and change the ink without a
cleaning cycle.

Something like the Canon isn't so bad changing one tank at a time.

I'm leaning more towards the Canons myself. The Canon ip5200 looks like
a decent upgrade from the hp712c I have. Both just use three primaries
colors. Now if the two extra colors in the 6000 series had something to
do with color hue, for example if the red primary leaned toward the blue
or yellow and the other red primary leaning towards a yellow or blue,
offering a huge palette range to work with, that actually would make
sense and would be worth buying. I know that red and blue are not pure
colors and there is a yellow pigment that is almost 100 pure so an extra
yellow would be overkill. If these extra colors are just lighter then
smaller dpi and bright paper would look probably look the same to the
human eye in my opinion. I would have to actually see a 6600d and the
5200 color test side by side before coming to any conclusion. The hp8250
has too many ml ranges on the color cartridges to look economical to me
compared to the canons. I have seen estimates that at full quality
settings, some prints would as high as 78 cents a page. The 5200 looks
better from the prints I've seen compared to the 8250 and the cartridges
are huge.

 

[zakezuke]

I'm leaning more towards the Canons myself. The Canon ip5200 looks like

a decent upgrade from the hp712c I have. Both just use three primaries
colors. Now if the two extra colors in the 6000 series had something to
do with color hue, for example if the red primary leaned toward the blue
or yellow and the other red primary leaning towards a yellow or blue,
offering a huge palette range to work with, that actually would make
sense and would be worth buying
I know that red and blue are not pure
colors and there is a yellow pigment that is almost 100 pure so an extra
yellow would be overkill.

Actually Canon at one point offered a printer with a light yellow, but
I can't remember the model number off the top of my head. The Light
Cyan and magenta on the i950/i960/ip6000/ip6600 are basicly watered
down editions of Cyan and Magenta. So no change in your color gamut.
They are simply fill inks to cover up the fact that you are using stark
dots and the fact that human eyes have a hard time picking up on the
fact that they are stark dots spaced at varied distances. While for
example my ip3000 and mp760 used smaller dots than my r200... im my eye
the r200 won on photos.

Now the ip6600 offers both the small dots and the light inks.

http://www.lyson.com/lysonic.html
I've never used lyson on canon or anything... I only know of them as
making the claim of offering archival ink for epson, and longer life
ink for canon. But near as I can tell, they only make ink for prior
generation canons and not the current ip4200/5200/6600. I can't find
anyone with experence with this as most people I know who buy canon do
so because it's easy to refill, not because they are looking for
archival prints.

Other papers and canon ink might extend their life, spraying your
prints definatly will.

The hp8250
has too many ml ranges on the color cartridges to look economical to me
compared to the canons. I have seen estimates that at full quality
settings, some prints would as high as 78 cents a page. The 5200 looks
better from the prints I've seen compared to the 8250 and the cartridges
are huge.

Huge cartridges are beside the point. HP is more efficent than canon.
that 5ml is pretty dang close to 10ml in canon from what i've observed
thus far, perhaps even higher. Operating costs should be at the very
least similar, and on canon I expect 75cents to $1.50/page using oem
ink on the ip5200. The best i've ever seen doing DVD covers before my
magenta gave out was aproximatly $1.10/page. Black is hard to
calculate, I aproximated 1/4 black to 1 color tank used.

Do consider the canon, but don't discount HP on volume. They seem
small, and the sizes are wacky, but they put alot of thought into the
wacky sizes and 5ml is more than it seems.

 

[Taliesyn]

Can the new bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas be used in the
bci-6 cartridges for use in a IP5000? This would seem to get the best
of voth worlds.

I would assume that the drivers are adjusted for the type of ink used so
I don't see them as being compatible. I haven't heard anyone claim
that they were.

-Taliesyn

 

[zakezuke]

I would assume that the drivers are adjusted for the type of ink used so

I don't see them as being compatible. I haven't heard anyone claim
that they were

I'm not sure what either of you are talking about exactly.

I presume Burt was talking about the ip5000 being a printer that will
accept the old ink without the chips, so non-oem cartridges and the
like.

I presume you Taliesyn are making reference to the ip5000 not being
geared tward the new ink. I know on the ip3000/4000/5000 you can
select whether it is geared for bci-6 or bci-7 by changing the
destination to Japan or anything but Japan. I can't say that bci-7 is
identical to bci-7e or cli-8 as i've not met either 7, but it's
possible.