2nd Request: RAID 5 Conversion

[Bob Felton]

Original Post: 1/1/04

Current Configuration:

-Gateway Model 6400 server class machine running Windows 2000 Server
-Server configured as a domain controller and running services DNS,
DHCP. Server is the only domain controller on the LAN.
-Server has two scsi disk drives partitioned as follows:
-Drive 0, Partition 0: Bootable, 4GB containing OS, Drive C:, Not
shared on the LAN
-Drive 0, Partition 1: 14GB containing data, Drive D:, Not shared
on the LAN
-Drive 1, Partition 0: 36GB containing data, Drive F:, Shared on
the LAN

I want to convert the server to using a RAID 5 array of 3 new 36GB
drives (same as current 36GB drive). After conversion, I will use the
existing 36GB drive as a hot spare.

I will be using an Adaptec 2100S controller to run the array.

I need assistance with the procedure for moving the OS and domain
controller configuration to the new RAID array without having to
reinstall the OS and reconfiguring it. If this is possible, can
someone please advise the specific procedure? Thank you.

I plan on moving the data from drives D: and F: by simple file copying
after the server has been converted to booting from the RAID array. I
plan on keeping the existing drives installed until after the RAID
array is fully functional and with all data migrated.

 

[Scott Harding - MS MVP]

Your going to have to reinstall or restore from backup. This is typically an
issue with the RAID card as many are done at the hardware level and
recreating a RAID means destroying all data on the drives and reformatting.
You might want to check with the manufacturer for some advice too since you
are buying their RAID solution for some ideas but that will probably be
fruitless. What I would do is install a new Win2k Domain Controller, if only
for temporary purposes, that way you have the domain information intact and
the domain would not be down for long. Then rebuild this box from scratch
creating the RAID how you want it along the way and then restore the data
and make this machine a Domain Controller again. This will be the cleanest,
easiest way. Basically you think that it will be more difficult to rebuild
it but believe me it will be much better to rebuild it and do it right from
scratch. That way you know it is right and it WILL work. You could go
through this whole process of trying to make this work and then what if it
doesn't then your are rebuilding it again anyways and you've lost all that
time. You could also use a ghosting process which would be the easiest but
some programs don't support ghosting to RAID drives. Anyways that's my
$0.02!

 

[Bob Felton]

Thanks for your response, Scott. However, I think you misinterpreted
my upgrade scenario. I will be installing the RAID array using new
drives. The existing drives will not be touched until the OS/Server
settings have been migrated to the RAID array and the server can boot
and run properly from the RAID array. Installing a temporary DC is
out of the question. Would this work:

1. Install the RAID array following Adaptec instructions. Boot from
existing drive. Format the new drive (RAID array) to NTFS. Assign a
drive letter to the array, say G:
2. Perform an ntbackup of c:\*.* including system state
3. Restore the ntbackup and system state to drive G:, the RAID array
4. Reconfigure SCSI controllers to boot from the RAID array. I would
think it should then come up as drive C:. Windows should detect the
disk changes and reconfigure drive letters to the found
drives/partitions.
5. Copy other data from old drives to folders on the new drive
(array), share and assign appropriate permissions to the folders.

The above seems good to me except for getting the array bootable.
Does the RAID controller array install process place the appropriate
data in the MBR for booting?

Thanks for your assistance, Scott.

Your going to have to reinstall or restore from backup. This is typically an
issue with the RAID card as many are done at the hardware level and
recreating a RAID means destroying all data on the drives and reformatting.
You might want to check with the manufacturer for some advice too since you
are buying their RAID solution for some ideas but that will probably be
fruitless. What I would do is install a new Win2k Domain Controller, if only
for temporary purposes, that way you have the domain information intact and
the domain would not be down for long. Then rebuild this box from scratch
creating the RAID how you want it along the way and then restore the data
and make this machine a Domain Controller again. This will be the cleanest,
easiest way. Basically you think that it will be more difficult to rebuild
it but believe me it will be much better to rebuild it and do it right from
scratch. That way you know it is right and it WILL work. You could go
through this whole process of trying to make this work and then what if it
doesn't then your are rebuilding it again anyways and you've lost all that
time. You could also use a ghosting process which would be the easiest but
some programs don't support ghosting to RAID drives. Anyways that's my
$0.02!

 

[Scott Harding - MS MVP]

I only suggested the temporary DC if this was your only DC on the network.
You know you are not going to get a definitive answer here of course. This
MAY work as expected but changing hardware is not usually an easy thing. If
you are going to use the same RAID card and just replace the drives this may
work as Win2k will try and detect all the changes. Since you are not
touching the originals you can always go back. Really your just going to
have to give it a whirl and see how it goes. I do think your plan is solid
so let us know how it turns out! Good Luck!

--
Scott Harding
MCSE, MCSA, A+, Network+
Microsoft MVP - Windows NT Server

Thanks for your response, Scott. However, I think you misinterpreted
my upgrade scenario. I will be installing the RAID array using new
drives. The existing drives will not be touched until the OS/Server
settings have been migrated to the RAID array and the server can boot
and run properly from the RAID array. Installing a temporary DC is
out of the question. Would this work:

1. Install the RAID array following Adaptec instructions. Boot from
existing drive. Format the new drive (RAID array) to NTFS. Assign a
drive letter to the array, say G:
2. Perform an ntbackup of c:\*.* including system state
3. Restore the ntbackup and system state to drive G:, the RAID array
4. Reconfigure SCSI controllers to boot from the RAID array. I would
think it should then come up as drive C:. Windows should detect the
disk changes and reconfigure drive letters to the found
drives/partitions.
5. Copy other data from old drives to folders on the new drive
(array), share and assign appropriate permissions to the folders.

The above seems good to me except for getting the array bootable.
Does the RAID controller array install process place the appropriate
data in the MBR for booting?

Thanks for your assistance, Scott.

 

[Bob Felton]

Thanks, again, for your response, Scott. Again, though, I think you
have my scenario wrong. I'm not actually changing hardware, I'm
adding hardware. My existing drive system is two separate scsi drives
being run off the on-board scsci controller of the Gateway 6400
machine. I plan on adding a new RAID subsystem using the Adaptec
2100S controller and new scsi drives connected to the 2100S. After
the existing c:\ partition is transferred to the new RAID drive I will
reconfigure the machine to boot from the RAID drive. Does this change
any of your comments? Tnx!

I only suggested the temporary DC if this was your only DC on the network.
You know you are not going to get a definitive answer here of course. This
MAY work as expected but changing hardware is not usually an easy thing. If
you are going to use the same RAID card and just replace the drives this may
work as Win2k will try and detect all the changes. Since you are not
touching the originals you can always go back. Really your just going to
have to give it a whirl and see how it goes. I do think your plan is solid
so let us know how it turns out! Good Luck!

 

[Scott Harding - MS MVP]

Ok, I'm retarded! I see what your saying now. I still think your plan is
solid and it certainly sounds like your not in too much danger of hurting
anything.......the only thing I am not sure about is the MBR for the new
drives like you were mentioning.....you may have to run a repair on the new
install to fix the startup environment...I think that is an option in Win2k
like it was in NT4.......maybe someone else wil have some comments
too.......tough one.....like all things with computers...make sure your
backups are good and then give it a whirl and see how it goes!!! Good luck!

--
Scott Harding
MCSE, MCSA, A+, Network+
Microsoft MVP - Windows NT Server

Thanks, again, for your response, Scott. Again, though, I think you
have my scenario wrong. I'm not actually changing hardware, I'm
adding hardware. My existing drive system is two separate scsi drives
being run off the on-board scsci controller of the Gateway 6400
machine. I plan on adding a new RAID subsystem using the Adaptec
2100S controller and new scsi drives connected to the 2100S. After
the existing c:\ partition is transferred to the new RAID drive I will
reconfigure the machine to boot from the RAID drive. Does this change
any of your comments? Tnx!

 

[Bob Felton]

OK, Scott, thanks. I am still awaiting receipt of the new drives.
Since my original post, I determined that I can not find any of the
same type drive as the existing 36GB 7200RPM drive. So, I ordered 4ea
73GB 10,000RPM drives to implement the array. 3ea for the array and
one as a hot spare. Will report back the results of the conversion
attempt.

Ok, I'm retarded! I see what your saying now. I still think your plan is
solid and it certainly sounds like your not in too much danger of hurting
anything.......the only thing I am not sure about is the MBR for the new
drives like you were mentioning.....you may have to run a repair on the new
install to fix the startup environment...I think that is an option in Win2k
like it was in NT4.......maybe someone else wil have some comments
too.......tough one.....like all things with computers...make sure your
backups are good and then give it a whirl and see how it goes!!! Good luck!

 

[Bob Felton]

Scott, I am still awaiting receipt of the hard drives to implement
the RAID 5 array, so I have further investigated methods to transfer
data from the current system partition to the array. Further research
of my proposed method using ntbackup doesn't sound as good any longer.
I found and read MSKB articles 240363 (How to Use the Backup Program
to Back Up and Restore the System State in Windows 2000), 249694 (How
to Move a Windows 2000 Installation to Different Hardware), and 263532
(How to perform a Disaster Recovery Restoration of Active Directory on
Dissimilar Hardware). Neither of these articles specifically fit my
scenario, however they do raise several questions regarding my
approach. After reading the articles, I'm not sure my approach is
fully workable and it may damage my current installation. Any
comments would be appreciated.

I also queried Adaptec about what I desire to do. They suggested that
I simply install the RAID 5 subsystem and then use Windows 2000 to
mirror the current system disk to the new disk (Adaptec implemented
RAID 5 disk). Then, remove the current system disk and restart the
machine. They say the OS should detect a failed mirror and offer to
remove the failed disk from the mirror, keeping only the new disk.
However, I have read MSKB article 302969 (How to Mirror the System and
Boot Partition (RAID 1) in Windows 2000) and 175761 (Dynamic vs. Basic
Storage in Windows 2000) and the content of these articles raises
questions to their solution:

1. To create a RAID 1 system under Windows 2000, the two drives
must first be converted to dynamic disks via the OS. Once done, they
can not be converted back to basic disks. Wouldn't I want/desire to
revert the new disk (Adaptec RAID 5 array) back to a Basic disk after
removal of the mirrored drive?

2. The volume on the new drive that was added as the mirror is
created to be the same size as the original boot and system volume.
Further, the articles state, a mirrored volume can not be extended.
Thus, once I remove the original drive to make the mirror drive the
new boot drive the mirror drive will be the same size as the old boot
drive, or 4GB. The array used to create the mirror drive will be
146GB in size. How can I make the new volume larger?

3. Other statements are made to the effect dynamic disks are
unreadable to operating systems other than Windows 2000. Does this
pose any problem to other computers on the network not running Windows
2000 being able to be served files from the server? I don't think so,
but I need to ask.

Another method I have found is to use disk imaging software. Create
an image of the current system disk and restore the image to the new
RAID disk and then reconfigure controllers to boot from the new system
disk (RAID drive). Upon restart, the OS should detect and readjust to
the new drive. And, I should be able to increase the resulting
partition size to that of the full array since it will be a Basic disk
to the OS. Do you see any problem with this approach? Would the
image restore process also make the new disk bootable?

Thanks again, Scott, for your assistance.

Ok, I'm retarded! I see what your saying now. I still think your plan is
solid and it certainly sounds like your not in too much danger of hurting
anything.......the only thing I am not sure about is the MBR for the new
drives like you were mentioning.....you may have to run a repair on the new
install to fix the startup environment...I think that is an option in Win2k
like it was in NT4.......maybe someone else wil have some comments
too.......tough one.....like all things with computers...make sure your
backups are good and then give it a whirl and see how it goes!!! Good luck!