24 pin power supplies, stability issues?

[Don Burnette]

I just recently assembled a new Athlon dual core system .
Athlon XP4400+ dual core cpu
MSI K8N Neo4 Plat Nforce4 mb
Saphire Radeon X850XT PCIe video card.
2gb of Corsair LL matched ( 2 ea 1gb) ddr ram
2 ea 250 gb WD Sata Hard drives

I have not overclocked the system yet, all running at default settings. I
did up my memory voltage slighty to see if that would help, it has not. I
also upped my vcore slightly.

I am having some stability issues. About once or twice a day, my machine
will just lock up. I have to press the power switch and hold it in, to get
the machine to shut down, then reboot. It seems to usually happen when I am
browsing the internet or reading newsgroups. Has not happened while playing
a game yet, but, I don't game but about a couple hours a week.

It did it this evening when I booted it after getting home, then after
shutting down and rebooting, it went through a checkdisk and corrected some
errors. It did it last weekend, and would not boot, said it was corrupt,
and I ended up having to do a repair install of XP Pro.

Heat is not an issue, my system temp is around 28c, cpu temp at idle is 32c,
under load the highest I have seen is 40c.

I am baffled by what is happening. I did a complete new clean install of XP
Pro SP2, and have all updates.

I am using an Antec True Power 530 watt power supply, but it is the 20 pin
( plus 4 ) connector, and the power connector on the motherboard is the
newer 24 pin connector ( plus 4). Someone posted here recently that there
might be some stability issues when using the 20 pin in the 24 pin
connector? I know MSI 's manual says it should be fine.

I looked briefly at Newegg, and did not see any 24 pin connector power
supplies, at least under the Antec name, or perhaps I just missed it? All I
saw showed as 20 pin ( plus4) , the plus4 meaning I presume the other small
4 pin connector that gets plugged into the mb as well.

Would appreciate any advice, I am wondering if going with a new power
connector that has the 24 pin connector to match the motherboard might solve
the problem. I see nothing in XP's event viewer either that gives a hint of
the problem.

Also, looking at my voltages using Speedfan, I noticed my 3.3 volt rail is
showing 3.1 volts, wonder if that might have something to do with it? I
believe this power supply has an adjustment where I could adjust the 3.3
volt setting.


Thanks for any advice,

 

[Paul]

I just recently assembled a new Athlon dual core system .
Athlon XP4400+ dual core cpu
MSI K8N Neo4 Plat Nforce4 mb
Saphire Radeon X850XT PCIe video card.
2gb of Corsair LL matched ( 2 ea 1gb) ddr ram
2 ea 250 gb WD Sata Hard drives

I have not overclocked the system yet, all running at default settings. I
did up my memory voltage slighty to see if that would help, it has not. I
also upped my vcore slightly.

I am having some stability issues. About once or twice a day, my machine
will just lock up. I have to press the power switch and hold it in, to get
the machine to shut down, then reboot. It seems to usually happen when I am
browsing the internet or reading newsgroups. Has not happened while playing
a game yet, but, I don't game but about a couple hours a week.

It did it this evening when I booted it after getting home, then after
shutting down and rebooting, it went through a checkdisk and corrected some
errors. It did it last weekend, and would not boot, said it was corrupt,
and I ended up having to do a repair install of XP Pro.

Heat is not an issue, my system temp is around 28c, cpu temp at idle is 32c,
under load the highest I have seen is 40c.

I am baffled by what is happening. I did a complete new clean install of XP
Pro SP2, and have all updates.

I am using an Antec True Power 530 watt power supply, but it is the 20 pin
( plus 4 ) connector, and the power connector on the motherboard is the
newer 24 pin connector ( plus 4). Someone posted here recently that there
might be some stability issues when using the 20 pin in the 24 pin
connector? I know MSI 's manual says it should be fine.

I looked briefly at Newegg, and did not see any 24 pin connector power
supplies, at least under the Antec name, or perhaps I just missed it? All I
saw showed as 20 pin ( plus4) , the plus4 meaning I presume the other small
4 pin connector that gets plugged into the mb as well.

Would appreciate any advice, I am wondering if going with a new power
connector that has the 24 pin connector to match the motherboard might solve
the problem. I see nothing in XP's event viewer either that gives a hint of
the problem.

Also, looking at my voltages using Speedfan, I noticed my 3.3 volt rail is
showing 3.1 volts, wonder if that might have something to do with it? I
believe this power supply has an adjustment where I could adjust the 3.3
volt setting.


Thanks for any advice,

The only freeze issue I've heard of, is the issue with the 8.35.2.3
driver for a Marvell LAN chip. And I don't know if that bug would
apply to your Marvell chip or not. The 8.35.2.3 driver was
picked up via Windows Update for most people, and it causes
freezes. Using either an older driver, or a newer driver, should
fix it.

I didn't know Antec made a 530 watt supply. Do you have a URL
for the product ? If you were using an Antec TrueControl, you
should have the adjustment panel installed. I believe, on
a TrueControl, if the panel is missing, all voltages will be
on the low side. The True Power is not user adjustable and should
not suffer from the same problem (I believe it has a feedback wire
on the three main outputs, so it should have pretty tight
voltage control at the motherboard).

There are some power supplies, where the 24 pin power connector
comes apart in two pieces. That allows the power supply to
be plugged into a 20 pin motherboard (with extra 4 pin section
removed), or when the 20 pin and 4 pin parts are snapped together,
you can plug the whole 24 pins into a 24 pin motherboard. That
is completely separate from the ATX12V 2x2 connector.

Are you using the Nvidia IDE driver ? Try the default Microsoft
IDE driver instead.

You could get a copy of memtest86+ and test the memory.
A second test is to try Prime95 "torture test option", which
should run error free. (As a 100% CPU load, that will help test
that the supply is strong enough.) A third test, would be to
run some version of 3DMark. That will load the power supply, and
also test that the video card is stable. I used to leave a demo
loop running overnight, in 3DMark, as a video stability test, and
see if it was still running the next morning. You can run these
tests, if you manage to cure the freezing problem, and you
want to know whether the system is really solid or not.

Paul

 

[dino]

there alot of BIOS options also..
Cell Menu
disable Spread spectrum
disable cool'n' quiet
disable the auto overclock feature
hold "shift"..press and hold F2..press and hold Alt..press and hold F3..
you should see extra menu options pop up..disable NV/ATI Speed up
...I just removed not 2 hours ago my Corsair TwinX PC3200C2 PT and replaced
it with OCZ PC4000 EL gold...2x1gig
even running at stock speed it was more stable...have now attained 240x11
OC.I found that if I ran the voltage higher on the corsair it wasn't too
bad.
Have heard of people having similar issues with it in other forums also

 

[Don Burnette]

there alot of BIOS options also..
Cell Menu
disable Spread spectrum
disable cool'n' quiet
disable the auto overclock feature
hold "shift"..press and hold F2..press and hold Alt..press and hold
F3.. you should see extra menu options pop up..disable NV/ATI Speed up
..I just removed not 2 hours ago my Corsair TwinX PC3200C2 PT and
replaced it with OCZ PC4000 EL gold...2x1gig
even running at stock speed it was more stable...have now attained
240x11 OC.I found that if I ran the voltage higher on the corsair it
wasn't too bad.
Have heard of people having similar issues with it in other forums
also

Cool'n'quiet and dynamic overclocking were already disabled.
CPU spread spectrum was enabled, so I have disabled it, will see if that
helps.

I tried holding shift, press and hold F2, pres and hold Alt, then F3. I did
not see any extra menu options, this is from within the cell menu right?
And, holding shift the whole time?

Thanks, hopefully disabling the spread spectrum might help.

 

[dino]

I know that works on the K8N Neo2,Neo4-F...sometimes it takes a try or 2 to
get..when you finish you should have all 4 keys down.

Here is another place to get excellent answers

http://forums.pcper.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12

Have built 5 systems based on the K8N Neo4-f..all have it..plus I disabled
that option on my K8n Neo2-f..I myself am still considering the Platinum or
the Asus Deluxe-Sli and a new vid card..
MSI K8N Neo2-F 939
AMD A64-3700 San Diego(240x11)
OCZ PC4000-2048El Gold
ATI X800XL (442 gpu-1100 mem)
etc...

 

[Don Burnette]

Ah, I was not keeping the first keys held down while pressing the subsequent
keys...

I will try it again, but will wait a couple of days and see if disabling
spread spectrum makes any difference. Maybe I will get lucky and that will
solve it..

I would like to start overclocking this system, but want to wait till it is
stable of course first.

I went from a K8N Neo2 Platinum board, with an XP64 3500+, which was rock
solid, to this K8N Neo4 Plat, X2 4400+ system.

Thanks for the tips!

Don

 

[don]

Sounds like HD problem to me.

Hav you checked event viewer to see what events have taken place at the time
of shutdown or lockup?

 

[Don Burnette]

Yes, nothing showing up in event viewer.

I took someone's advice from the other day, and disabled cpu spread spectrum
in the bios. So far it seems to be stable, knocking on wood...

Thanks,

Don

 

[Don Burnette]

Well damn, I spoke too soon

Locked up on me this am using OE.. it seems to mainly happen when using
either OE or IE.
Nothing whatsoever in event viewer...

I could try removing the Nvidie ide sw drivers. Would these affect sata
drives? I currently do not have any pata drives in my system..



Don

 

[Bill]

I could try removing the Nvidie ide sw drivers. Would these affect sata
drives? I currently do not have any pata drives in my system..

It might be the SATA drivers which are not needed with service pack 2.
You only need the drivers if you're running a RAID configuration.

To clear things up, there are only two types of ATX power connectors on
motherboards. Either the 20-pin or newer 24-pin.

The Antec power supply you have is compatible with both types because
its connector is a 20-pin with a 4-pin extension that attaches to the
end of the 20-pin and fits both motherboard connections.

Make sure you have the full 24-pin power connectors plugged into the
board.

 

[Don Burnette]

It might be the SATA drivers which are not needed with service pack 2.
You only need the drivers if you're running a RAID configuration.


To clear things up, there are only two types of ATX power connectors
on motherboards. Either the 20-pin or newer 24-pin.

The Antec power supply you have is compatible with both types because
its connector is a 20-pin with a 4-pin extension that attaches to the
end of the 20-pin and fits both motherboard connections.

Make sure you have the full 24-pin power connectors plugged into the
board.

Hmm, I have the 20 pin plugged into the 24 pin connector on the motherboard,
and then, I have the small square 4 pin connector, plugged into a seperate
small square 4 pin connector on the motherboard...

Is this not right?

 

[Don Burnette]

Hmm, I have the 20 pin plugged into the 24 pin connector on the
motherboard, and then, I have the small square 4 pin connector,
plugged into a seperate small square 4 pin connector on the
motherboard...
Is this not right?

Btw, also, I did not install any sata or raid drivers when doing the new
install of XP Pro, it seemed to work fine without it.
I did however, upon installing the MSI motherboard drivers, install the
Nvidia IDE SW drivers.

 

[Bill]

Hmm, I have the 20 pin plugged into the 24 pin connector on the motherboard,
and then, I have the small square 4 pin connector, plugged into a seperate
small square 4 pin connector on the motherboard...

Is this not right?

Yes and no.

There's one slug for the ATX12v at the top of the board near the CPU,
and only the ATX12v plug will fit in that socket. Sounds like you found
and connected that one.

There's also one for certain PCI-express video cards that need extra
power. And of course there's the one for the main power socket.

The three are not interchangeable.

Two plugs look similar but only one will attach and work in the 24-pin
main power socket on the motherboard. If you don't have both main power
plugs installed, and it sounds like you don't, then your motherboard is
not getting enough power. Find and connect the other 4-pin plug that
makes the power connector a 24-pin connection.

All 24 pins of the main power connection must be installed.

 

[Don Burnette]

Yes and no.

There's one slug for the ATX12v at the top of the board near the CPU,
and only the ATX12v plug will fit in that socket. Sounds like you
found and connected that one.

There's also one for certain PCI-express video cards that need extra
power. And of course there's the one for the main power socket.

The three are not interchangeable.

Two plugs look similar but only one will attach and work in the 24-pin
main power socket on the motherboard. If you don't have both main
power plugs installed, and it sounds like you don't, then your
motherboard is not getting enough power. Find and connect the other
4-pin plug that makes the power connector a 24-pin connection.

All 24 pins of the main power connection must be installed.

Aha, interesting, I will take a look around in my power wires coming from
the power supply, and see if I see this other connector you are speaking of.
Will advise.

Thanks,

 

[Don Burnette]

Aha, interesting, I will take a look around in my power wires coming
from the power supply, and see if I see this other connector you are
speaking of. Will advise.

Thanks,

Well, poo!
I have looked at every lead coming from the power suppy, and I do not have
another 4 pin plug that would fit beside the main 20 pin power connector.
Now, the pci-express video card does have a plug coming out of it, that
plugs into one of the regular power leads from the power supply.

So what I have is:
The 20 pin main power connector, plugged into the 24 pin receptacle on the
motherboard
The 4 pin atx12v connector, which is plugged into the 4 pin receptacle up
near the cpu.
So, there are the remaining 4 pins in the main receptacle sitting empty
beside where the 20 pin is plugged in.
Is this my problem? Do I need to order a new power supply, and if so, what
do I look for that would have this extra adapter?

Many thanks,

 

[Paul]

Well, poo!
I have looked at every lead coming from the power suppy, and I do not have
another 4 pin plug that would fit beside the main 20 pin power connector.
Now, the pci-express video card does have a plug coming out of it, that
plugs into one of the regular power leads from the power supply.

So what I have is:
The 20 pin main power connector, plugged into the 24 pin receptacle on the
motherboard
The 4 pin atx12v connector, which is plugged into the 4 pin receptacle up
near the cpu.
So, there are the remaining 4 pins in the main receptacle sitting empty
beside where the 20 pin is plugged in.
Is this my problem? Do I need to order a new power supply, and if so, what
do I look for that would have this extra adapter?

Many thanks,

One of the purposes of the 24 pin connector, is to provide a few
extra pins to carry power for PCI Express. But the 20 pin connector
can also do the job. The issue is, whether the load on the motherboard
would exceed the capacity of the 20 pin connector, to carry the current.

If you have a single PCI Express video card, and it is powered via
a 2x3 connector on the end of the card, then there will be no
stress to speak of, on the 20 pin main connector. The other
extreme would be two cards in SLI, and having no 2x3 or 1x4 connector
on the end of the two video cards, for additional power. In a situation
like that, then the full 24 pins might be advisable.

Usually the motherboard manual will have some comments on the subject.

The deal is, the 20 pin connector has only one +12V pin. The 24 pin
connector has two +12V pins. A single pin on the ATX power connector
is rated to carry 6 amps, before it gets warm. That means up to
6 amps could flow through the 20 pin connector without a problem.
On a typical motherboard, the only load on that pin, is for fan
headers (maybe 0.5A), plus the video card power drawn through the
edge card of the PCI Express video slot. A 6600GT card, which
doesn't have a separate power connector, draws 4 amps from the
20 pin ATX connector. So, the total in that case is 4.5A of a
total of 6A allowed.

Generally, a card more powerful graphics wise, will have a separate
power cable, for cards faster than a 6600GT. And then the 20 pin
connector is only carrying the fan current (0.5A or so). AFAIK,
the 6600GT is the most stressful card you can select, and the total
current is still within the 6 amp limit of a 20 pin power
connector. (One reason the 6600GT doesn't have a 2x3 power plug,
is because the five 1 amp pins on the edge card are enough to
carry the current the card needs).

Paul

 

[Bill]

I have looked at every lead coming from the power suppy, and I do not have
another 4 pin plug that would fit beside the main 20 pin power connector.

That's odd because according to the Antec website, the True Power
supplies have 20+4 pin connections, just like my Antec Smart Power
supply.

There is a 20-pin connector and a 4-pin that snaps onto the end of the
20-pin to "convert" it into a 24-pin.

Now, the pci-express video card does have a plug coming out of it, that
plugs into one of the regular power leads from the power supply.

That's good...it takes some of the stress off the motherboard.

So, there are the remaining 4 pins in the main receptacle sitting empty
beside where the 20 pin is plugged in.
Is this my problem? Do I need to order a new power supply, and if so, what
do I look for that would have this extra adapter?

I just noticed that you have a 530w True Power, and after a double-check
I see there is no such power supply on Antec's website. Can you verify
the model number and power rating.

The other True Power supplies are supposed to be v2.0 compatible and
work with either the 20 or 24-pin connectors.

 

[Don Burnette]

That's odd because according to the Antec website, the True Power
supplies have 20+4 pin connections, just like my Antec Smart Power
supply.

There is a 20-pin connector and a 4-pin that snaps onto the end of the
20-pin to "convert" it into a 24-pin.


That's good...it takes some of the stress off the motherboard.


I just noticed that you have a 530w True Power, and after a
double-check I see there is no such power supply on Antec's website.
Can you verify the model number and power rating.

The other True Power supplies are supposed to be v2.0 compatible and
work with either the 20 or 24-pin connectors.

Hmm, can't see with it in the case, I would have to remove it to tell. I
know it is an Antec True Power, and pretty sure it is at least 500+w.
I think I will go ahead and order one that I know is 20 plus 4 to be safe,
will advise what this one is when I remove it...

Thanks,

 

[dino]

you can buy a 20-24 pin adapter at most computer stores..I have used that in
most of my builds due to the fact people just don't want to spend the extra
buying an empty tower and adding a $40-50 cheap 24 pin psu, when I am
selling them the tower and PSU for $40.

 

[Bill]

Hmm, can't see with it in the case, I would have to remove it to tell. I
know it is an Antec True Power, and pretty sure it is at least 500+w.
I think I will go ahead and order one that I know is 20 plus 4 to be safe,
will advise what this one is when I remove it...

You have a very good power supply. Why buy another one?

Another person just posted about an adaptor for the 20 to 24-pin
connectors. That sounds like a better idea than buying a whole new
supply.