160 Gb drive in a removable caddy give "disk error press ctrl alt del" on boot

[neil]

I wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I had a Seagate drive that was
deemed faulty with the above fault so I returned it under warrantee. I
received a replacement that gives the same error at the first boot during
the windows XP setup routine. With the drive in the removable caddy the
error occurs but if I connect the drive to the IDE cables directly the drive
will boot ok. I have a 120Gb drive normally working in the bay and that has
always been fine, my second drive is a 250Gb drive so the bios does not have
a problem with large drives. All IDE cables are 80 pins type.

Any suggestions are welcome.

thanks
Neil

 

[philo]

I wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I had a Seagate drive that was
deemed faulty with the above fault so I returned it under warrantee. I
received a replacement that gives the same error at the first boot during
the windows XP setup routine. With the drive in the removable caddy the
error occurs but if I connect the drive to the IDE cables directly the drive
will boot ok. I have a 120Gb drive normally working in the bay and that has
always been fine, my second drive is a 250Gb drive so the bios does not have
a problem with large drives. All IDE cables are 80 pins type.

Any suggestions are welcome.

thanks
Neil

The caddy or it's base *CAN* fail...

I have about 25 removable drives in a total of three computers and have
found that the caddy or it's base can fail from time to time...

 

[neilp]

Hi,
I dont think its a failure of the caddy because I can still use the
120Gb drive as normal & if I put in a 20Gb drive into the caddy which
I have fitted the 160Gb previously the 20Gb drive will boot and load
the OS on that disk.
Neil

 

[smlunatick]

Hi,
I dont think its a failure of the caddy because I can still use the
120Gb drive as normal & if I put in a 20Gb drive into the caddy which
I have fitted the 160Gb previously the 20Gb drive will boot and load
the OS on that disk.
Neil






- Show quoted text -

What tyoe if IDE cabke is the "caddy" using? IDE cables for most hard
drives should be the 80 wire / 40 pin Ultra DMA IDE cables.

Caddys are not that reliable for the larger hard drives (greater than
the bios LBA limit of 137GB.)

 

[neil]

Hi,
The cable in the caddy is an 80 wire as is the cable from the IDE connector
on the motherboard. I was beginning to think it was something to do with the
137Gb limit, but I wondered if anyone could confirm that.
The box identifies the caddy as ATA33/66/100/133. I can't quite understand
why it will allow files to be copied to it but not boot.

thank for the feedback
Neil

 

[kda]

Neil,

I often experience this or something that sounds like it could be your
problem. When I introduce a "new" HD via my swap
tray + caddy system, my ASUS Bios can / occasionally / often decides
to change the listed order of my boot drives in BIOS setup (under
Boot / Drive Priority).

So in goes the caddy, boot, BIOS sees the new drive and sets it as
the primary boot device in position #3 (after my floppy and CD which
it leaves alone) and then refuses to boot from it giving me an error
message to replace with system disk or drive and then restart.

So I have to do into BIOS and rearrange my list of HDs and then
into Boot Priority and select my boot HD again for position #3.

That works until I introduce a "new" drive into the swap tray at
some point and then ASUS Bios gets all confused again and I have
to go in and set up the drive list and then the boot priority again.

So investigate that possibility to see if there is something helpful
in my experiences.

kda
--------------------------------------

 

[Anna]

Hi,
I dont think its a failure of the caddy because I can still use the
120Gb drive as normal & if I put in a 20Gb drive into the caddy which
I have fitted the 160Gb previously the 20Gb drive will boot and load
the OS on that disk.
Neil

Neil:
Just to ensure we're talking about the same type of component - a mobile
rack that's affixed to a desktop's 5 1/4" bay that has a removable tray
(caddy) housing a HDD -- that's right, isn't it? And if so, you're working
with only a single mobile rack, right?

1. First of all, has this problem just arisen, i.e., has the Seagate *ever*
worked properly while it was installed in the mobile rack or has it *never*
properly functioned while installed in the mobile rack?

2. And you say that when the removable tray contains your bootable 120 GB
HDD it boots & functions just fine, right? Obviously indicating there's no
problem with the rack itself, right?

3. But when you insert your bootable Seagate 160 GB HDD in the *same*
removable tray in the *same* mobile rack, you get the "disk error..."
message you refer to and the drive is not bootable. Right?

4. But you know there's nothing wrong with the Seagate because it boots &
functions just fine when you connect it as an internal HDD, right? And when
you do this the Seagate is jumpered as Master and is connected to your
Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, right? And your mobile rack is
similarly connected as Primary Master when it's in use? So that when you
connect the Seagate as an internal Primary Master (for testing purposes),
you disconnect the mobile rack's IDE cable connected to the rack and use it
to connect the Seagate, right?

Think there's any chance that the problem you're experiencing may be in the
HDD jumpering as related to the IDE cable connections/configurations to the
motherboard's IDE channel(s)?
Anna

P.S.
You indicated in a subsequent post that you think the problem may be due to
the large-drive limitation involving HDDs > 137 GB. But didn't you indicate
that the full disk capacity of your 250 GB HDD is detected in your system
without any problems?

(I note the comment from a responder to your query to the effect that
"Caddys are not that reliable for the larger hard drives (greater than the
bios LBA limit of 137GB.)". That has not been our experience and we have
worked with a wide variety of mobile racks in many, many systems over the
year. As long as the BIOS supports large-drive capability and your XP OS
contains SP1 and/or SP2 at the time you install the OS onto the HDD, there's
no problem with the mobile rack itself not detecting HDDs > 137 GB. At least
we've never once encountered that problem.)

 

[neil]

Just to ensure we're talking about the same type of component - a mobile

rack that's affixed to a desktop's 5 1/4" bay that has a removable tray
(caddy) housing a HDD -- that's right, isn't it? And if so, you're working
with only a single mobile rack, right?

That is correct..

1. First of all, has this problem just arisen, i.e., has the Seagate
*ever* worked properly while it was installed in the mobile rack or has it
*never* properly functioned while installed in the mobile rack?

The Seagate drive has never worked in the caddy, I thought it was faulty and
sent it back under warrantee but the replacement acts just the same as the
original drive. This made me investigate further by connecting it directly
to the IDE cable and that is when I found out it will boot in that
configuration...

2. And you say that when the removable tray contains your bootable 120 GB
HDD it boots & functions just fine, right? Obviously indicating there's no
problem with the rack itself, right?

That is correct..

3. But when you insert your bootable Seagate 160 GB HDD in the *same*
removable tray in the *same* mobile rack, you get the "disk error..."
message you refer to and the drive is not bootable. Right?

I fit it into my second removable tray and that is when I get the boot
error..I have always left the 120Gb drive in what I call my 1st tray,
suppose I could try putting the Seagate in the second tray..

4. But you know there's nothing wrong with the Seagate because it boots &
functions just fine when you connect it as an internal HDD, right? And
when you do this the Seagate is jumpered as Master and is connected to
your Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, right? And your mobile rack
is similarly connected as Primary Master when it's in use? So that when
you connect the Seagate as an internal Primary Master (for testing
purposes), you disconnect the mobile rack's IDE cable connected to the
rack and use it to connect the Seagate, right?

Yes, but I use cable select for either the 120Gb or the 160Gb and when I
have use a 20Gb drive in the second bay.. The 250Gb permanent drive is also
set as cable select...

Think there's any chance that the problem you're experiencing may be in
the HDD jumpering as related to the IDE cable connections/configurations
to the motherboard's IDE channel(s)?

I have tried both cable select & master links.

Anna

P.S.
You indicated in a subsequent post that you think the problem may be due
to the large-drive limitation involving HDDs > 137 GB. But didn't you
indicate that the full disk capacity of your 250 GB HDD is detected in
your system without any problems?

The full capacity has always been seen of all drives it is just a boot issue
not a full capacity issue...

(I note the comment from a responder to your query to the effect that
"Caddys are not that reliable for the larger hard drives (greater than the
bios LBA limit of 137GB.)". That has not been our experience and we have
worked with a wide variety of mobile racks in many, many systems over the
year. As long as the BIOS supports large-drive capability and your XP OS
contains SP1 and/or SP2 at the time you install the OS onto the HDD,
there's no problem with the mobile rack itself not detecting HDDs > 137
GB. At least we've never once encountered that problem.)

It just crossed my mind that it might have something to do with the 137Gb
limit as the drives I swap that are less than 137Gb do boot, but the first
time I use a drive >137Gb (as a boot drive) in the caddy it doesn't.

Thanks for taking the time to run through the issues, hoping you can come up
with a resolution.

Neil

 

[smlunatick]

Hi,
The cable in the caddy is an 80 wire as is the cable from the IDE connector
on the motherboard. I was beginning to think it was something to do with the
137Gb limit, but I wondered if anyone could confirm that.
The box identifies the caddy as ATA33/66/100/133. I can't quite understand
why it will allow files to be copied to it but not boot.

thank for the feedback







- Show quoted text -

Check the BIOS so as to see if the 160GB drive is correctly detected.
If the BIOS detects it, the check for the version of XP. You must
have XP with at least Service Pack 1 installed / slipstreamed on your
system before the HD is correctly access.

BTW: You never mentioned the "caddy" make / model.

 

[neil]

Hi,
The drive size is correctly detected in the bios either in the caddy or
directly connected to the IDE cable. The caddy is a "Data-Castle" BT-27 RH
mobile rack. XP is a slipstream copy with SP2.
I'm not sure if that will help at all.

Neil

 

[Anna]

That is correct..


The Seagate drive has never worked in the caddy, I thought it was faulty
and sent it back under warrantee but the replacement acts just the same as
the original drive. This made me investigate further by connecting it
directly to the IDE cable and that is when I found out it will boot in
that configuration...

That is correct..


I fit it into my second removable tray and that is when I get the boot
error..I have always left the 120Gb drive in what I call my 1st tray,
suppose I could try putting the Seagate in the second tray..


Yes, but I use cable select for either the 120Gb or the 160Gb and when I
have use a 20Gb drive in the second bay.. The 250Gb permanent drive is
also set as cable select...


I have tried both cable select & master links.


The full capacity has always been seen of all drives it is just a boot
issue not a full capacity issue...


It just crossed my mind that it might have something to do with the 137Gb
limit as the drives I swap that are less than 137Gb do boot, but the first
time I use a drive >137Gb (as a boot drive) in the caddy it doesn't.

Thanks for taking the time to run through the issues, hoping you can come
up with a resolution.

Neil

Neil:
As I previously indicated, *all* that is necessary for the system to
recognize a large-capacity HDD, i.e., one whose capacity is > 137 GB
(approx.), are two requirements...
1. The XP OS contains either SP1 or SP2 at the time the OS is installed on
the HDD, and,
2. Your motherboard's BIOS supports large-capacity disks. And we know
there's no problem here because you've indicated the system detects the full
capacity of one of your secondary 250 GB HDDs (at least that's what I think
you stated).

That's it. Nothing else. It has nothing to do with the mobile rack itself.

In any event, if it happened that the XP OS that was installed on your
Seagate HDD did *not* contain SP1 or SP2 at the time the OS was installed,
the system would still detect the drive; it just wouldn't detect its full
capacity. It should still boot and function properly except for the
unrecognized additional disk space.

As a test, could you jumper the Seagate as Master (rather than CS), install
it in the removable tray, and ensure the IDE cable is connected to the
Primary IDE connector on the motherboard, and disconnect your second mobile
rack together with any other connected internal HDD? Then attempt a boot.
Same problem?

And, if so, if you uninstalled the Seagate from the removable tray and
installed the 120 GB HDD, jumpered as Master, in the same mobile rack still
connected to the motherboard's Primary IDE connector, it will boot?

And you say, setting aside the removable HDD mobile racks, that the Seagate
160 GB if *directly* connected to the Primary IDE channel as an internal HDD
will boot & function properly?

Could you detect anything in the motherboard's BIOS settings relative to
boot priority order or some such that might shed some light on this?
Although as you describe the situation (as I understand it) it's hard for me
to conceive that's where the problem lays. But maybe...
Anna

 

[neil]

Anna,
I'll try out what you suggest and see what happens, although I think over
the last week I have already tried it but it's worth checking.
My copy of XP is a slipstream with SP2 so it always "sees" the whole drive
capacity be it the 120Gb, 160Gb or 250Gb (as secondary) it's just the
ability to boot on the 160Gb. I never tried to boot on the 250Gb as it has
always been a "data" only drive.

I'll post back any results.
Thanks again for your time.
Neil

 

[neil]

Hi Anna,
I have tried the drive connected to the internal IDE and in the caddy, using
master & cable select but no change. I now have the drive with a copy of XP
SP2 fully installed and if I put it in the caddy I get the error message
"disk read error press ctr alt del" at boot, but if I connect it to the
internal IDE cable using the cable that is normally connected to the caddy
(primary master) then it boots into XP and works without error.
I did put it into the same tray as my normal 120Gb drive and the error is
the same. Both 120Gb & 160Gb are set to "cable select".

Any ideas
Neil

 

[Anna]

Hi Anna,
I have tried the drive connected to the internal IDE and in the caddy,
using master & cable select but no change. I now have the drive with a
copy of XP SP2 fully installed and if I put it in the caddy I get the
error message "disk read error press ctr alt del" at boot, but if I
connect it to the internal IDE cable using the cable that is normally
connected to the caddy (primary master) then it boots into XP and works
without error.
I did put it into the same tray as my normal 120Gb drive and the error is
the same. Both 120Gb & 160Gb are set to "cable select".

Any ideas
Neil

Neil:
It is indeed a strange situation. Just to summarize...

1. You know there's no problem with your mobile rack & its removable tray
because when you insert the bootable 120 GB HDD (jumpered as Master or
Single) it boots without incident and functions just fine, right?.

2. But when you insert the bootable Seagate 160 GB HDD similarly jumpered as
Master, in the same mobile rack and in same removable tray, it won't boot
and you get that error message. And you're absolutely sure you've properly
inserted that Seagate in the removable tray so that it's making proper
contact with the tray's internal connectors (power & data), right?

I think you mentioned you had two mobile racks - I'm assuming they're the
same make & model. If so, did you try using the second removable tray with
the Seagate?

3. And when you connect the Seagate directly to the *same* IDE cable that
was connected to the rack so that the Seagate is functioning as an
"internal" HDD, it boots & functions just fine. So there's obviously no
problem with the drive itself.

4. And you did check your BIOS just on the off-chance that there might be
some selection/option/element etc. that might impact on this problem?

Assuming I completely & correctly understand the situation as described
above I honestly don't know what to suggest. When we've run into previous
(roughly) similar cases like the one you describe, i.e., no defective
components immediately discerned, the problem was invariably due to
incorrect jumpering of the disk, or improper insertion of the drive in the
removable tray, or use of another IDE data cable which proved defective, or
an incorrect BIOS setting re boot priority order. Although I have to add
that we encountered a (very) few cases where for some unaccountable reason a
non-defective perfectly good HDD would not work in a non-defective perfectly
good mobile rack even though we determined all connections were proper and
all the involved components were non-defective. An extremely rare occurrence
in my experience but it did happen.

Anyway, go over things again and please keep us informed of developments.
Anna

 

[smlunatick]

Neil:
It is indeed a strange situation. Just to summarize...

1. You know there's no problem with your mobile rack & its removable tray
because when you insert the bootable 120 GB HDD (jumpered as Master or
Single) it boots without incident and functions just fine, right?.

2. But when you insert the bootable Seagate 160 GB HDD similarly jumpered as
Master, in the same mobile rack and in same removable tray, it won't boot
and you get that error message. And you're absolutely sure you've properly
inserted that Seagate in the removable tray so that it's making proper
contact with the tray's internal connectors (power & data), right?

I think you mentioned you had two mobile racks - I'm assuming they're the
same make & model. If so, did you try using the second removable tray with
the Seagate?

3. And when you connect the Seagate directly to the *same* IDE cable that
was connected to the rack so that the Seagate is functioning as an
"internal" HDD, it boots & functions just fine. So there's obviously no
problem with the drive itself.

4. And you did check your BIOS just on the off-chance that there might be
some selection/option/element etc. that might impact on this problem?

Assuming I completely & correctly understand the situation as described
above I honestly don't know what to suggest. When we've run into previous
(roughly) similar cases like the one you describe, i.e., no defective
components immediately discerned, the problem was invariably due to
incorrect jumpering of the disk, or improper insertion of the drive in the
removable tray, or use of another IDE data cable which proved defective, or
an incorrect BIOS setting re boot priority order. Although I have to add
that we encountered a (very) few cases where for some unaccountable reason a
non-defective perfectly good HDD would not work in a non-defective perfectly
good mobile rack even though we determined all connections were proper and
all the involved components were non-defective. An extremely rare occurrence
in my experience but it did happen.

Anyway, go over things again and please keep us informed of developments.
Anna- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Its been "years" since I last used caddiews for hard drive. One thing
I could suggest is to check the "power" the caddy is suppling yo the
drive.

 

[Lil' Dave]

I wonder if anyone can answer this for me. I had a Seagate drive that was
deemed faulty with the above fault so I returned it under warrantee. I
received a replacement that gives the same error at the first boot during
the windows XP setup routine. With the drive in the removable caddy the
error occurs but if I connect the drive to the IDE cables directly the
drive will boot ok. I have a 120Gb drive normally working in the bay and
that has always been fine, my second drive is a 250Gb drive so the bios
does not have a problem with large drives. All IDE cables are 80 pins type.

Any suggestions are welcome.

thanks
Neil

Is the bay enclosure and caddy 80 wire capable version?
Are using an 80 wire cable from the bay enclosure to the ide port?
How long is the cable you're using for the bay enclosure?

 

[Lil' Dave]

A few bay mounted ide hard drive enclosures I've used have a jumper(s) as
part of the enclosure. The ide hard drive must be set master or slave, the
jumper on the enclosure is set per that setting of the hard drive. Cable
select setting on the hard drive is not an option for proper operation in
such cases.

 

[Anna]

Dave:
That's interesting. I've worked with dozens of different makes & models of
mobile racks over a fairly long period of years and I've never come across
one with jumper selectors on the rack itself. A most unusual arrangement to
say the least. Could you let me know the make & model of such a unit?
Thanks.
Anna

 

[neil]

Hi Dave,
The cable is the same cable connected to the bay as connected to the drive
directly & is 80 wire. (not sure how long but standard , came with the
motherboard)
Just referencing your other reply different thread, there is no link on the
drive enclosure and the 120Gb drive boots with either the link on the hard
drive set to master or cable select. The 160Gb drive wont boot in the
enclosure with the link in either position, but boots fine when connected to
the IDE cable inside the PC directly. (this is after disconnecting it from
the rear of the caddy.

Neil

 

[Meebers]

I have a couple in use...it is called ez-swap by vantec. operation is
simple, the case has a dip switch arrangement on the outside that allows you
to select m/s/cs. on the inside there are 3 pair of wire connectors (2pin)
that you plug into the normal connections on the HDD. Perhaps a little bit
easier then taking off the lid and changing the jumper pin/plug?