The pyramid stones fail to show the
sedimentation strata of the quarried stones.
Bullshit.
Instead, they're random,
Bullshit.
as one would expect from concrete.
Concrete aint anything like random in fact.
Same with small shells. The volume of the 3 pyramids
is more than estimated volume of the quarry.
Bullshit.
However, most reports compare the volume only
with Khufu's pyramid, which matches fairly close:
<
http://www.aeraweb.org/gpmp-project/great-pyramid-quarry/>
For amusement, you might want to work out the lengths of the
ramps needed to raise the stones. There's not enough room.
Bullshit.
More if you want, but after I get the
book back, which is on loan to a friend.
Its just a silly fantasy.
So much for an open mind, open to change.
You haven't presented a shred of evidence that needs any change.
The pyramids were build with corvee labor, where each
village supplied some workers for the use of the state.
The practice persisted well into modern times.
<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvée#Egypt>
Sure, I just meant that its easier to do with slaves.
Slavery as an institution didn't exist yet,
Bullshit.
simply because it was too expensive to keep slaves.
Even sillier. Have fun explaining why it became universal.
When the projects were done, the corvee
labor returned to their home towns.
You have some interesting illusions about slave labor.
No.
As I mentioned, slaves are expensive,
That's just plain wrong.
and not easily "consumed".
Even sillier.
In later civilizations, slaves were educated, trained
for a profession, and treated reasonably well.
Hordes of them never were.
In some areas, the freeing of a slave was essentially a death
sentence, as it cut the slave off from any support structure.
Even sillier.
In many societies, it was common to volunteer
for slavery if the alternative was starvation.
In hardly any, actually. They were in fact FAR more
often the result of capture during warfare etc.
As for managing slaves, try managing volunteers some day.
Been doing that since before you were even born thanks.
Neither gets paid, and neither is particularly efficient or cooperative.
But its perfectly possible to organise both.
I never suggested that there was irrefutable evidence
that the pyramids were made from concrete.
You did however claim that that is how they were done.
At best, there is sufficient evidence that
they could have been made from concrete,
No, we know that they aren't concrete.
Its completely trivial to analyse what they actually are.
at the Egyptians had the means, and that it answers many awkward
questions, such as how they obtained near perfect joints.
That last is even sillier. There are in fact MUCH better joints
seen elsewhere and we know that those are stone, not concrete
and we also know how they were done, without any metal tools.
http://www.culture-making.com/media/2539164551_9a7571cd4c_o_420.jpg
Please re-read the OP posting.
No point, I remember what he said.
Quoting:
I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain
hardware (exchange defective parts) autonomously for up
to 1000 years. One of the problems is to maintain firmware
and operating systems for this period.
The way I read it, he was talking about firmware, operating systems,
hardware, replacing defective components, and maintenance.
Yes, but nothing about storing all that petabytes of data you were on about.
Where I said that he wasn't talking about storing petabytes of data.
Robotic facilities are not build for storing a few bytes here and there.
They're
made for storing massive amounts of data. Think Petabytes, not bytes.
You have no idea how much he does want to store.
That isnt even clear now that he has said more about what he wants to store.
Incidentally, it's ludicrous to store firmware in
NVRAM, flash, EEPROM, EPROM, or PROM.
Not if you need to actually use it to operate
the robots that are the autonomous system.
It's the same problem as satellites and Mars Landers. If you
make a mistake, or a cosmic ray sticks a bit, you're screwed
unless you have a way to modify the "firmware" and reload it.
You obviously must have that if you want it to be
an autonomous system that will last for 1000 years.
If you want reliability and failure recovery, what you want
is a minimal boot loader, and the rest is reloadable code.
But it may well be reloaded into NVRAM etc.
Even the common hard disk hasn't had
firmware in EPROM for maybe 15 years.
Irrelevant to what might do best if you want it last 1000 years.
There's just a loader on tracks before the boot record, which
loads the firmware image from multiple dedicated tracks
(for redundancy) into memory during power on boot.
Irrelevant to what might do best if you want it last 1000 years.
That particular approach is very unlikely to last for 1000 years
on the bearings alone.
Offsite backup? One site will be expensive enough.
Now you want more?
It would be completely stupid to have just one.
And he said cost is no object.
I'm sure the backers will be thrilled with your solution
to the reliability problem. Ummm... how long does it
take to verify a Petabyte of data?
You keep thrashing that straw man.
As I mentioned, an earthquake will probably not ruin the data.
But may well ruin access to it if where its stored collapses.
What it will do is ruin physical access to the data
So that's just as bad as ruining the data.
or destroy the machines needed to read the data.
So that's just as bad as ruining the data.
The only viable approach is to have more than one so you
don't lose everything in one unlikely event that does happen.
Like copper wire? In 3rd world countries, such theft is common.
There is plenty of stuff that's of no interest to anyone.
When it's time to install a cell site, it usually ends up on the top or
side of a mountain, in an exposed location for the best coverage.
in order to prevent thieves from cleaning out the cell site, it is common
to hire a village to move next to the cell site to act as its guard.
Just not viable for something that you want to last for 1000 years.
What does work is to do it where no one is aware its been
done and have some mechanism where it wakes up after
1000 years and signals where it is and what's there.
Are you going to do that for your multiple facilities?
Nope, because it won't work for 1000 years.
Multiple invisible sites will work fine tho.
Concrete is mostly water and will eventually oxidize almost anything
inside.
Not when what you have in it is properly contained it won't.
So, what are you going to do?
Point out the holes in your claims.
Include plans on how to build the retrieval
apparatus for someone to build after 1000 years.
Pointless. It would be better to include that in whats stored.
Do you have a CK722 transistor handy?
Don't need one.
The Egyptian desert is notable for having very low humidity.
Its completely trivial to have an even lower humidity.
Desiccate a body or a document in such an environment,
and it will last almost forever. The same cannot be said for
other parts of the world with higher humidity levels.
Its completely trivial to have an even lower humidity there too.
They most certainly did. Many of the hirglyphics and tablets found
deals with the administrative details of running a complex empire.
That was not what saw those pyramids last much longer than he wants.
Bureaucracy was in full bloom. Haggling over prices was
an art form worth of recording for posterity. The ancient
Egyptians weren't very different from us today. Less
technically able, but socially, quite similar.
All irrelevant to what ensured those pyramids
lasted much longer than he requires.
Perhaps you should ask yourself the same question.
No, I wasn't the one proposing that approach, you are doing that.
The original question wasn't particularly clear or details. Why would
anyone bother asking only about preserving firmware? It seems more
likely that preserving petabytes of data would be more worthy of the
effort.
It aint that binary. If its only gigabytes its much easier
to do with the sort of approach we know will last much
longer than 1000 years, engraved on nickel plates etc.
That ignores the problem of who's going to pay to have it
stored for 1000 years without verifying that the data is safe
and intact during the intervening years.
He did say that price isnt a consideration.
Sure, it would be easy to build a time capsule and
take your chances that it would last 1000 years.
And you aren't really taking any chances
when you replicate that and make them invisible.
However, I don't think anyone would
be willing to pay for such a service.
We already know that some have done just that.
Evolution of the crocodile:
<
http://www.preceden.com/timelines/44419--evolution-of-crocodiles->
Seems like there have been a few extinctions and some evolution.
**** all in fact and they would have survived fine without any.
The cockroach has also evolved and specialized nicely:
<
http://www.bio.umass.edu/biology/kunkel/cockroach.html>
**** all in fact and they would have survived fine without any.
The Egyptians failed badly.
The DATA survived fine for much longer than he wants.
Their attempt to preserve their pharaohs was thwarted by tomb
raiders, gold hunters, religious fanatics, archaeologists, and tourists.
The DATA survived fine for much longer than he wants.
Hopefully, todays scientists and engineers can do better.
Sure.
Perfect climate for preservation was more
important than media and technology.
And we can now do that 'climate' for the data anywhere.
Have fun explaining how anyone would even know about it to destroy it.
One of biggest fears is that the population will increase sufficiently to
make
burning the past and the competition the only way to stay employed.
That's only a fear of those who don't have a clue about whats actually
happened with population recently. NOT ONE modern first world
country is even self replacing now if you take out immigration.
The fertility rate is dropping EVERYWHERE now except where its
now so low that its right down in the noise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate
Whenever the stock market takes a dive, a few
politicians and lunatics appear, suggesting that if
technology were suppressed, there would be more jobs.
But we have never ever seen even one suggest burning down
the Library of Congress or pull the plug on wikipedia or the net.
Destroying the machines is a common theme in science fiction literature.
That's fiction. We aint seen that since the Luddites tried that in the real
world.
By todays standards, destroying the past is unthinkable.
However, by the standards that evolve over the next
1000 years, perhaps not so unthinkable.
They can't destroy what they don't know about.
And you can protect against that trivially just by having
multiple sites that wake up at different times too.
We have had book burnings in our recent past.
None of those ever destroyed all copys of anything.
We have had stuff last 1000 year accidentally, but not by intent
That's just plain wrong with the egyptians alone.
And with the bible in spades.
and certainly without anything close to 100% reliability.
Sure, but that's trivially fixed by having multiple sites.
In my never humble opinion, if you want longevity,
one needs evolutionary adaptation.
It clearly is not necessary.
Good point. Let's just let the historical documents, paintings,
and artwork just rot away. We can just keep the photos. Try
that line next time you visit the National Archives.
<
http://www.archives.gov>
Irrelevant to what makes sense with what he wants to keep for 1000 years.
Same way as how you keep the data you do want to keep.
That's not a trivial question. Who will hold the
encryption keys to the digitized national treasures?
He never ever said anything about digitized national treasures.
Will the honor be hereditary, or a public service position?
He said he wants an autonomous facility, none of that crap involved.
Who pays for guarding the key.
He said he wants an autonomous facility, none of that crap involved.
What happens if it's hacked or lost?
Can't be hacked if no one knows about its existence.
Can't be lost with multiple sites, you can't lose them all.
With little effort, this archive could easily morph into a large
bureaucracy.
He said he wants an autonomous facility, none of that crap involved.
I have the same problem when hiring programmers.
I don't know what I'm getting until I see them work.
You don't know what you are getting even when you do see them work.
What they have produced doesn't stop them ****ing up something different.
Same here. Put them to work and see what they can do.
Not even possible to see how it works out over 1000 years.
If they fail, it will be obvious fairly soon.
Not necessarily with something that has to work for 1000 years.
Some religions lasted fine for 500 years and then vanished.
Have a backup candidate ready. Eventually, someone with a clue will be
found.
But even that one wont last 1000 years.
. I'll keep dreaming, then