1.5 Terabyte SATA drive super slow

R

Rahul

I just bought a new 1.5 Terabyte drive for my machine and the performance
just crashed.

It is a "Western Digital Caviar Green" ( Manufacturer part#
"WD15EARS" )

Accourding to specs. it's a 7200 rpm SATA with 64 k cache. Just wondering
if any other people have noticed issues with this or similar drives. Or are
large drives just slow?

I was used to using a 130 GB 15k RPM SAS drive before. Is the performance
difference so drastic between SAS and SATA? Or large versus small drives.
Or 7200 rpm versus 15k RPM.

Another mistake I might have done is that I just made one huge partition.
Could that be my performance killer?
 
A

Andrew E.

15,000 rpm drives are usually associated with SCSI &/or enterprise
systems,typically these hd are under 100GB.The smaller the hd the better
the performance..
 
P

Paul

Rahul said:
I just bought a new 1.5 Terabyte drive for my machine and the performance
just crashed.

It is a "Western Digital Caviar Green" ( Manufacturer part#
"WD15EARS" )

Accourding to specs. it's a 7200 rpm SATA with 64 k cache. Just wondering
if any other people have noticed issues with this or similar drives. Or are
large drives just slow?

I was used to using a 130 GB 15k RPM SAS drive before. Is the performance
difference so drastic between SAS and SATA? Or large versus small drives.
Or 7200 rpm versus 15k RPM.

Another mistake I might have done is that I just made one huge partition.
Could that be my performance killer?

Your mistake may have been buying that drive. Did you
read the reviews first ? There is something not quite
right with that model. Maybe it is all a matter of
"user error". Perhaps the instructions that came with
the drive, were not enough of an education campaign.
Or, it could be that it actually has some firmware issues.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=22-136-513

The drive has a native 4K block size ("Advanced Format"), so this
drive is part of the "new wave" of drives. One reviewer also comments that
the drive is 5400RPM (not stated in description, because it would scare
customers). For RPM rate here, it says "Intellipower", and I guess
if they can't state a number or conditions, it means they have
something to hide. You could always use the free version of HDTune
from hdtune.com and check the seek rate and see what RPM speed that
result is consistent with.

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701229.pdf

With regard to the Advanced Format 4KB sized sectors, you should be
reading this article, on what to do. There is a jumper to insert
before using the drive. Or alternately, a utility to use to prepare
the drive.

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3691

Even after the drive has been prepared, I'd still test it
thoroughly, to see whether it has any performance problems.
The drive might still have some kind of firmware problem.

I like the Newegg reviews, because they can give you an
early warning about products to avoid.

Good luck,
Paul
 
R

Rahul

You have a large drive running on slow machine. what is the spec of
your system?

The machine is not slow per se. AMD Opteron procs. 2.2 GHz. 8 cores total.
(Dual socket Quad cores) 16 GB RAM.

Besides, the machine was blazing fast when I was using my 130 Gig SAS 15k
RPM drive.
 
R

Rahul

15,000 rpm drives are usually associated with SCSI &/or enterprise
systems,typically these hd are under 100GB.The smaller the hd the better
the performance..

Do you think it will be better if I run the OS from the fast SAS drive and
store docs on the larger SATA?
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Rahul said:
The machine is not slow per se. AMD Opteron procs. 2.2 GHz. 8 cores
total. (Dual socket Quad cores) 16 GB RAM.

Besides, the machine was blazing fast when I was using my 130 Gig
SAS 15k RPM drive.

You have that hardware and replaced a SAS drive with a SATA?!

Really?!
 
B

Bill Blanton

Do you think it will be better if I run the OS from the fast SAS drive and
store docs on the larger SATA?

I would. I have Windows and all programs installed on a small 10k rpm
IDE drive, and use a couple of larger 7.2k rpm drives for user data. At
one time, I had to run a clone of the system off one of the slower 7200
rpm drives, while the 10k drive was being RMAed, and the performance hit
was very noticeable.

The system will boot and shut down faster. Programs load faster. Paging
file I/O, a major performance consideration, is faster. To a lesser
extent reading/writing to %temp% folders, TIF, log files, etc..it all
adds up..
 
R

Rahul

You have that hardware and replaced a SAS drive with a SATA?!

Really?!

Yes. :( 130 Gigs wasn't enough to accomodate all the accounts that needed
to be on it.

Any smarter way out? I don't see the obvious soultion maybe.
 
R

Rahul

I would. I have Windows and all programs installed on a small 10k rpm
IDE drive, and use a couple of larger 7.2k rpm drives for user data. At
one time, I had to run a clone of the system off one of the slower 7200
rpm drives, while the 10k drive was being RMAed, and the performance hit
was very noticeable.

Maybe I will do that then! Is there a way during the install that I could
tell the system to move the user storage to the SATA drive? Or is that just
moving MyDocs?
 
R

Rahul

Paul said:
Your mistake may have been buying that drive. Did you
read the reviews first ? There is something not quite
right with that model. Maybe it is all a matter of
"user error". Perhaps the instructions that came with
the drive, were not enough of an education campaign.
Or, it could be that it actually has some firmware issues.

I saw the jumpers and the WDAlign instructions. But it did not mention any
of the WinServer editions at all. It had XP, Win7 and Vista mentioned as
the affected systems. Hard to say if they just forgot the server crowd
or...?

Maybe I will try the jumpers still.....
 
P

Paul

Rahul said:
I'm not sure what is a "good" result but here's what I got from hdtune:

http://tinyurl.com/yg5ynal
http://tinyurl.com/y9abw95
http://tinyurl.com/yc5hevt
http://tinyurl.com/yg227ju
http://tinyurl.com/y8eobyz

Do any of the stats. look super slow?

I use version 2.55 (free version), so haven't really looked at the Pro version.

The "Benchmark" graph (hdtune5.png) appears to go from 0 to 64MB and measures 165MB/sec.
The box labeled "cache" is checked. That test appears to be testing
the cache on the drive controller, rather than the entire drive. Still,
it proves your interface cable is running faster than SATA I rates. Some
storage devices manage 220MB/sec on cable limited tests at SATA II rates.
Not a big deal.

To check your hdtune4 graph result, I'd have to find some "Atto" benchmarks
of some other drives. That would take a while to find some good ones.

OK, this thread has some Atto examples. Perhaps you can change your settings
or something, and rerun the hdtune4 graph.

http://www.planetamd64.com/index.php?showtopic=21897

Your hdtune2.png graph, another "benchmark" type graph, is a bit bumpy.
Drawing a line through the graph, your range is about 90MB/sec down to
about 45MB/sec. My new Seagate 500GB single platter drive does 130MB/sec
down to about 70MB/sec. Some of the "bumpy" behavior in the graph, is
due to sector sparing, where bad blocks are replaced with local spares.
Another quirk I've noticed, is one bump in the graph appears to occur
as the benchmark test passes over the pagefile, if the drive happens
to be your OS drive.

Your average access time from hdtune2.png, is 16.3ms. My 7200RPM 500GB
drive is 14.1ms, and Seagate drives tend to be a bit of a slouch. So you're
a bit slow there. The drive might not be staying fully at 7200RPM for
the whole benchmark.

In your hdtune1.png picture (a test option I don't have in the free version),
you have one suspicious dot at 400 milliseconds. For that to happen, a sector
would need to be retried a number of times. Hard drives are set up to
do many many retries (which is why ordinary disks don't make good RAID
drives). The RE3 versions of drives, cost more than ordinary drives, and
one of the differences is reduction in the timeout value before the
drive stops trying to read a bad sector (which, as far as I know, is just
a simple firmware change). The timeout could be on the
order of 5 seconds on a RE3 type of drive, and longer on
ordinary drives.

Based on my untrained eye, there isn't that much wrong with the drive.
Personally, when I get a new drive, I expect the hdtune2.png to be
relatively smooth. I find after about six months usage of a drive,
it starts to get bumpy like the curve for your brand new drive.
And at that point, there could be lots of spared out sectors.
Even a new drive has spared sectors, but not quite as many.
If you have enough of those "400ms" delay cases, it wouldn't take
too many of those while you're working, to really ruin the
performance. On my random access test result, I have one dot
at 33ms, which is the highest point in my scatter plot and stands
out a bit from the other dots.

So your results aren't "broken", but they're not particular
appetizing either :)

This is my Seagate ST3500418AS, 500GB 7200RPM drive. It was
selected based on price, rather than being a stellar performer.
The sequential transfer rate is pretty good, compared to some
of my older drives. Some of the older drives only get about half
the sequential transfer rate.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6982/hdtunebenchmark500gbst3.png

Price is currently $55.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148395

This is an older Seagate. Average access time is a bit slower.
The reason I'm posting this one, is to show the "zoned" behavior
of the disk. The disk is divided into zones, so the transfer
rate is not intended to be a smooth curve, but rather a stair-step
function. This benchmark isn't too bumpy, but that particular
drive is a lot worse now (which is why it got replaced several
months ago).

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6494/hdtunebenchmarkst380011.png

Paul
 
B

Bill Blanton

Maybe I will do that then! Is there a way during the install that I could
tell the system to move the user storage to the SATA drive? Or is that just
moving MyDocs?

Not during the install, afaik, but you can move it to another drive.
Right-click > properties.
 

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