WinDriver Backup et al.

[Sietse Fliege]

I beg to differ.
+ You have put a hugh amount of work into the PW list.
+ You have to put up with the guy's email flooding

However, as you say that it should stay a group effort...

I concur that it should be a group decision.

So it is.

Please make your own decision and *vote*. A simple keep this
page up or take it down would be helpful.

A bit less simple (sorry) :
1st choice : put the page on another site and link to it
(create Prizelessware.org? *g* )
2nd choice : keep it up

 

[POKO]

Do you like Freeware?

If the answer is YES, then support this by keeping the above page
there. Why?
Simple, really, he wins, if you don't. In six months or less, no one
will
remember this "little incident" (stolen software). Then he will
"borrow" someone
else's software and put it up as his own. What will you do then?

I don't like thieves, PERIOD!!!! I spent too many years fighting
them, and I
know how they "win". They win by intimidation, threats, and bribery.
You, either
crush their efforts or you let them win. There may be an ulterior
motive, in
letting them win, but I really don't think there could be one with
Freeware.

Most Freeware is made by authors who take THEIR time to do it,
mostly,
because they are interested in it and want to do something for them
selves. If
it helps someone else, then that's a side benefit. If, by doing nothing
or
avoiding the issue, we allow this person to "rip off" someone else's
hard work
then we will have NO ONE to complain to when that persons steals someone
else's
software. Whether that software product is Freeware or Commercial, makes
no
difference.

So make up your minds. Either you support this or we drop the whole
thing,
and let him win. Either we keep Freeware "free" or we let someone else
determine
what is Freeware and who it belongs too. There have been some heated
discussions about freeware in this NG over the past five or six years.
Those of
you who participated in those "heated" discussions should have a better
idea of
what it's all about than most of the people that have came here over
that time
period. It would seem an awful waste of time and effort if that was all
pointless verbiage, i.e. wasted effort.

If, as a group, we let this happen then other authors will be
hesitant to
write anything that is "Freeware". Because if someone steals it there
will be no
help, from the "freeware community", then that author will not write it
for the
"Freeware Community", and he/she will have no interest us, those of us
who use
freeware. Then we might as well as close this NG down, in a few years
there will
be nothing to talk about except old(er) freeware, because there is
nothing new
being written for us, the Freeware Community.

Maybe I haven't said it exactly right, but I hope you understand what
I'm
saying, i.e. keep the page and make everyone aware of HunterSoft, or let
him win!

Ok, I'll get off the soap box now.

[NEXT!]

Bill Rowland
Atlantic Computer Systems
USN/IBM Retired



I concur with Bill, but I would ask if there is anyone lurking with
related experience with the legal angle of all this. Nobody would like
to see Sue suffer any legal woes should the site stay up.
With respect the mail bombing, a simple filter would alleviate this.

POKO
Ontario, Canada Corrections - retired

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

I don't see the web page as precedent setting. ACF has a history
of acting to ensure the integrity of the ACF newsgroup and the
Pricelessware List. Abuse reports are filed against spammers,
Pricelessware voting irregularities are discussed, program and
site ripoffs are noted etc. etc. etc.

What *is* unprecedented is the attack that was made on the
integrity of the ACF newsgroup and the Pricelessware list by
Huntersoft - by deceptive posts in the newsgroup and by an attempt
to redirect Pricelessware links.

If it were just the integrity of a.c.f, I'd say take the page down
and just deal with it in the group, with folllowups to any deceitful
messages we see.

For me, it was the direct attempt to trick you into pointing a PL
link at the ripped off scumware which makes it a good idea to have
the info page on the pricelessware.org site itself. And of course,
such a page must have all the relevant info available about the
subject, not just the stuff that relates directly to the PL.

IMO, what we decide will (I thought already had set a precedent
about how attempts to meddle with the PL are handled.

In addition, at a minimum two freeware author's have been
adversely effected by the actions of Huntersoft.

The web page is a measured response. It furnishes documented
evidence of Huntersoft's past actions - and it is easier to find
than ACF posts with the same information.

The Huntersoft page was uploaded about 6 weeks ago. It is fairly
high on the list of results from a Google search for Huntersoft.

And the pricelessware.org site has earned a great deal of respect
beyond the confines of this group. I think people who run across
that page while searching for info on Huntersoft are more likely to
trust it than if the page were moved off-site, as has been
suggested.

*Jacques* is almost certainly monitoring this list. That means he
has been aware of the page for some time. The attack on the
Pricelessware site now may be an indication that the page is
producing some effects that *Jacques* doesn't like.

Well, clearly he realized the importance of the pricelessware.org site
much earlier, else he would not have tried to tamper with it in the
first place. Perhaps he's had his eyes opened a bit wider.

But seriously, though he does make me angry, I don't see the page as
primarily a way to punish him for his misdeeds (and I know you didn't
imply that it was). It is a way to make the information available in a
place where it can be judged by anyone in light of the fact that a.c.f
have decided the page belongs there. Whether or not Jacques likes what
surfers do with that info is largely irrelevant to me.

I concur that it should be a group decision. Only a few people
have commented. Please make your own decision and *vote*. A simple
keep this page up or take it down would be helpful. The page is
here:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

I guess if there's to be an actual vote, a new thread should be
started, with a subject that indicates it is a vote about changing the
pricelessware.org pages. I reckon this thread is the equivalent of a
CFD before a CFV. If it can all be settled by concensus without a
voting thread, so much the better, but it looks like opinions vary too
much for that.

 

[Alan]

My vote would be to keep the page up, but I'm not the one who has to
deal with the aggravation of the mail bombing and honestly were it I,
I'd likely remove it to alleviate the attack. This person evidently is
without morales and it is hard to say what lengths this individual
would go to satisfy his self importance. I support your decision,
either way.

I agree. It would be nice to hit this thief/ standover parasite from as
many angles as possible, but ultimately it will be up to whoever
maintains the PW website to deal with any retaliations. I'd leave it up
to those who have to do the actual said work.

 

[Steve H]

I agree.

And I.
The page is a collection of facts, along with documentation - pretty
hard to argue with that.
There can't be many freeware programmers and consumers who don't have
huge regard for pricelessware.org recognition, and the integrity of it
is worth protecting.

Regards,

 

[Alisdair]

Susan Bugher wrote in

IMO the web page should stay.

As a lurker here, I think that the page should stay up. The threats of
mail bombing are reprehensible.

--
Cheers,
Alisdair

"The past is written. It will not change. But the present is being
written as we live and the future will be written as we dictate it.
Live accordingly."

 

[Mel]

I agree. It would be nice to hit this thief/ standover parasite from as
many angles as possible, but ultimately it will be up to whoever
maintains the PW website to deal with any retaliations. I'd leave it up
to those who have to do the actual said work.

I agree entirely.

PW visitors might inadvertently download a pirate, untrustworthy
version of a legitimate program with a similar name, so some sort
of warning is in order.

Perhaps a ACF user petition is worth trying - to be sent
to his web hosting service and websites that list his software where
it is known to be illicit, in order to urge them to they take action?


http://www.petitiononline.com seem to offer a free service.

 

[R.L.]

I don't see the web page as precedent setting. ACF has a history of
acting to ensure the integrity of the ACF newsgroup and the
Pricelessware List. Abuse reports are filed against spammers,
Pricelessware voting irregularities are discussed, program and site
ripoffs are noted etc. etc. etc.

What *is* unprecedented is the attack that was made on the integrity of
the ACF newsgroup and the Pricelessware list by Huntersoft - by
deceptive posts in the newsgroup and by an attempt to redirect
Pricelessware links.

In addition, at a minimum two freeware author's have been adversely
effected by the actions of Huntersoft.

The web page is a measured response. It furnishes documented evidence
of Huntersoft's past actions - and it is easier to find than ACF posts
with the same information.

The Huntersoft page was uploaded about 6 weeks ago. It is fairly high on
the list of results from a Google search for Huntersoft.

*Jacques* is almost certainly monitoring this list. That means he has
been aware of the page for some time. The attack on the Pricelessware
site now may be an indication that the page is producing some effects
that *Jacques* doesn't like.

IMO the web page should stay.



I concur that it should be a group decision. Only a few people have
commented. Please make your own decision and *vote*. A simple keep this
page up or take it down would be helpful. The page is here:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

I'd vote for keeping it.


R.L.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I would certainly answer them (if they're legitimate) and tell them
that you are not responsible for the submissions. Ask them for
expanded header view copies of the submissions for evidence of spoofing.

If "Jacques" is engaged in copyright violation, and it kind of sounds
like this might be easy to prove if the original software authors take
measures to copyright their stuff when they release it, then getting
his site shut down by his web space provider should be easy. If he has
his own domain, then a complaint to his upstream provider would
definitely be in order.

Another thing I noticed is that he is laying claim to several awards
for "his" software:

http://www.zhangduo.com/freeware.html

It might be worth it to contact the sites indicated on that page to
see if the awards are legitimate. If they're not, then those sites can
get him shut down because they really do have big lawyers and lots of
money.

Thanks John,

I appreciate the help. re: those awards . . .

Quantum Illusions 6 ???????

Is Huntersoft responsible if people leap to the conclusion that
displaying an award means Huntersoft received it? just because the page
says "Huntersoft Shareware Awards"? The *Awards* don't link to anything
.. . .

An interesting question? Any lawyers in the crowd?

Susan

 

[vsj]

[snip]
Thanks John,

I appreciate the help. re: those awards . . .

Quantum Illusions 6 ???????

Is Huntersoft responsible if people leap to the conclusion that
displaying an award means Huntersoft received it? just because the
page says "Huntersoft Shareware Awards"? The *Awards* don't link
to anything . . .

An interesting question? Any lawyers in the crowd?

Susan

Susan, but I hate thinking of PW involved in any kind of legal
battle. PW is a wonderful site providing everyone with the opportunity
of freely obtaining software when they might otherwise not be able to
afford it.

JMO, I would keep all correspondence, of all kinds with the fellow
and take down the page, and post a notice that PW does not support
warez or stolen software of any type. I have seen many sites who post
the name of the site (without a link to the site) but bill the site as
promoting this this type of activity. I think this would be an idea to
ponder, as PW is too valuable to get involved in a legal altercation.

 

[Susan Bugher]

Susan Bugher wrote:

So far I have simply filed these emails - any good advice to

[snip]
Thanks John,

I appreciate the help. re: those awards . . .

Quantum Illusions 6 ???????

Is Huntersoft responsible if people leap to the conclusion that
displaying an award means Huntersoft received it? just because the
page says "Huntersoft Shareware Awards"? The *Awards* don't link
to anything . . .

An interesting question? Any lawyers in the crowd?

Susan

Susan, but I hate thinking of PW involved in any kind of legal
battle. PW is a wonderful site providing everyone with the opportunity
of freely obtaining software when they might otherwise not be able to
afford it.

Did you miss the smiley? That was not a *serious* question.

JMO, I would keep all correspondence, of all kinds with the fellow
and take down the page, and post a notice that PW does not support
warez or stolen software of any type. I have seen many sites who post
the name of the site (without a link to the site) but bill the site as
promoting this this type of activity. I think this would be an idea to
ponder, as PW is too valuable to get involved in a legal altercation.

I don't think there is any possibility of that. The Pricelessware List
is just a list - the web site is just a web site. AFAIK they can't be
sued. AFAIK the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup can't be sued.

The web page contains only well-documented statements of fact. IMO it
affords absolutely no grounds for a lawsuit.

I signed the Huntersoft web page. I am responsible for its contents. If
a frivolous lawsuit is filed I assume it will be against me. I am not
unduly concerned about that possibility (and I don't think others should
be worried on my behalf).

Susan