WinDriver Backup et al.

[Genna Reeney]

Hi folks,

Susan tells me that the decision to add the page about HunterSoft on the
Pricelessware site was made by the group and so any further decisions should
be made by the group.

I have been flooded with the following email in various forms:

*********
Hello ******,

Please remove this page,

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

Since it is not the fact, you may evaluate our "Unknown Device
Identifier v3.01", which certainly support USB, IEEE1394 and ISA Plug&Play
devices and more... while Unknown Devices v1.2 not.

If you don't remove the SLANDER page in 3 business days, I will
fLoOd your server pricelessware.org and all email accounts on it.

Evil wishes,
Jacques ****

*********

I didn't follow the discussion at the time, though I did just read up on it.
While the practices of this fellow are despicable, I submit it is not the
job of the Pricelessware List to police other sites. We can request sites
that improperly link to the PL to edit their content or we can have an
asterisk by the name to say "not to be confused with X product."

I think the Pricelessware List is better served by steering clear of
controversy; I would prefer to see a short sentence stating that these are 2
different products rather than engage the group and the list into an
unpleasant war of words.

Would love to hear what everyone else thinks.

 

[Alan]

Hi folks,

Susan tells me that the decision to add the page about HunterSoft on
the Pricelessware site was made by the group and so any further
decisions should be made by the group.

I have been flooded with the following email in various forms:

If you don't remove the SLANDER page in 3 business days, I
will fLoOd your server pricelessware.org and all email accounts on it.

Evil wishes,
Jacques ****

*********

I didn't follow the discussion at the time, though I did just read up
on it. While the practices of this fellow are despicable, I submit it
is not the job of the Pricelessware List to police other sites. We
can request sites that improperly link to the PL to edit their
content or we can have an asterisk by the name to say "not to be
confused with X product."

I think the Pricelessware List is better served by steering clear of
controversy; I would prefer to see a short sentence stating that
these are 2 different products rather than engage the group and the
list into an unpleasant war of words.

Would love to hear what everyone else thinks.

I tend to agree with your view that the PW site should not become the
victim of this bottom-of-the-barrel excuse for a human. At the same
time, he shouldn't be able to get away with his intimidation and
software theft (can't give in to the terrorists etc.) Maybe better to
try to attack him on open ground, like the usenet. Whenever one of these
programs is mentioned in ACF, be it the legitimate one or the stolen
one, hopefully one of the vigilant can quickly post a link/ extract from
the appropriate huntersoft page, perhaps with a **SCAM** or similar
header appendage. Probably even better/ broader bad publicity than if it
were sitting quietly in a corner of the PW list.

 

[tlshell]

I have been flooded with the following email in various forms:

Report all of them to Spamcop (free)

There's a time limit for each post, I think it's either 24 or 48
hours, after that you can't submit the post as it's too old.

 

[John Corliss]

Hi folks,
Susan tells me that the decision to add the page about HunterSoft on the
Pricelessware site was made by the group and so any further decisions should
be made by the group.
I have been flooded with the following email in various forms:
(clipped)

Genna,
Looks to me like the fellow is mailbombing and-or harrassing you.
Can't you just look at his headers and file a complaint with his ISP
or upstream provider?

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's posts because I have him
killfiled. This is due what I perceive to be ongoing troll activity on
his part in this group.

 

[Sietse Fliege]

Hi folks,

Susan tells me that the decision to add the page about HunterSoft on
the Pricelessware site was made by the group and so any further
decisions should be made by the group.

I have been flooded with the following email in various forms:

*********
Hello ******,

Please remove this page,

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

Since it is not the fact, you may evaluate our "Unknown
Device Identifier v3.01", which certainly support USB, IEEE1394 and
ISA Plug&Play devices and more... while Unknown Devices v1.2 not.

If you don't remove the SLANDER page in 3 business days, I
will fLoOd your server pricelessware.org and all email accounts on it.

Evil wishes,
Jacques ****

*********

I didn't follow the discussion at the time, though I did just read up
on it. While the practices of this fellow are despicable, I submit it
is not the job of the Pricelessware List to police other sites. We
can request sites that improperly link to the PL to edit their
content or we can have an asterisk by the name to say "not to be
confused with X product."

I think the Pricelessware List is better served by steering clear of
controversy; I would prefer to see a short sentence stating that
these are 2 different products rather than engage the group and the
list into an unpleasant war of words.

Would love to hear what everyone else thinks.

There are good arguments both for and against having the Huntersoft
page, IMO.
Whatever others may contribute to this thread, a little voice tells me
that you are not going to change your opinion on this, Genna.
If I am right and you remain feeling strongly against it, then that
counts enough for me to suggest to proceed conform your wish.

 

[Boomer]

Hi folks,

Susan tells me that the decision to add the page about
HunterSoft on the Pricelessware site was made by the group and
so any further decisions should be made by the group.

I have been flooded with the following email in various forms:

*********
Hello ******, [snip]
If you don't remove the SLANDER page in 3 business
days, I will
fLoOd your server pricelessware.org and all email accounts on
it.

Evil wishes,
Jacques ****

********* [snip]
I think the Pricelessware List is better served by steering
clear of controversy; I would prefer to see a short sentence
stating that these are 2 different products rather than engage
the group and the list into an unpleasant war of words.

Would love to hear what everyone else thinks.

Steering clear of controversy sounds good to me. And mentioning the
2 different programs. Also, as John mentioned, I would report the e-
mails you are receiving to his ISP.

Cheers

 

[Susan Bugher]

Looks to me like the fellow is mailbombing and-or harrassing you.
Can't you just look at his headers and file a complaint with his ISP
or upstream provider?

Hello John,

I don't know how may emails Genna has received as a result of Jacques
efforts - to date about 70 have come to me - 13 from Jacques - the rest
indirectly. The direct ones were sent from a hotmail account: "Jacques
Dubois" <[email protected]>

The indirect ones started arriving yesterday. Jacques is submitting his
site and giving the PL link button address for contact.

Some quotes from a typical email:

<quote>

You, or someone using your email address (e-mail address removed) has
submitted
the following to my FFA Nation Submission system:

http://www.zhangduo.com/driverbackup.html
210.220.73.8
2003-10-06.

Your information was submitted through my site at:

SNIP

Your submission must process through our verification system or it will
not complete. We require verification to make sure that it was in fact
you who requested this service, initiated this process and agree to our
terms before we complete the process. This protects you from UCE,
protects us from complaints and allows us to inform you of the multitude
of free marketing services and systems available to you via Optin list.

NOTE: This procedure for verifying submissions follows MAPSSM
Principles. MAPS guidelines are recognized as the legitimate process to
prevent abuse. Veremail by Inetekk's privacy policy.

This submission may have occured through a remote service, submission
software or manually at the site indicated. Occasionally certain
individuals will try to abuse others with these services. This is why we
verify and also make available to you to add your email address to our
suppresion database (blacklist) if you feel you are being abused. If you
wish to be blocked, go to the end of this message and click on the
blocking link. If you do block your email address, our servers will
never accept your email address again.

</quote>

So far I have simply filed these emails - any good advice to offer?

Susan

 

[Andy Mabbett]

Looks to me like the fellow is mailbombing and-or harrassing you.
Can't you just look at his headers and file a complaint with his ISP or
upstream provider?

You'd know about that, wouldn't you?

Remember when you forged my identity, to maliciously subscribe me to
mailing lists? Your ISP warned you about that one, didn't they?

 

[John Corliss]

Hello John,
I don't know how may emails Genna has received as a result of Jacques
efforts - to date about 70 have come to me - 13 from Jacques - the rest
indirectly. The direct ones were sent from a hotmail account: "Jacques
Dubois" <[email protected]>
The indirect ones started arriving yesterday. Jacques is submitting his
site and giving the PL link button address for contact.

"Jacques" seems like a very immature individual who uses bluff a lot.
This is a real lame attempt to get even with you for the page about
his site.

Some quotes from a typical email:

<quote>

You, or someone using your email address (e-mail address removed) has
submitted the following to my FFA Nation Submission system:

http://www.zhangduo.com/driverbackup.html
210.220.73.8
2003-10-06.

Your information was submitted through my site at:

SNIP

Your submission must process through our verification system or it will
not complete. We require verification to make sure that it was in fact
you who requested this service, initiated this process and agree to our
terms before we complete the process. This protects you from UCE,
protects us from complaints and allows us to inform you of the multitude
of free marketing services and systems available to you via Optin list.

NOTE: This procedure for verifying submissions follows MAPSSM
Principles. MAPS guidelines are recognized as the legitimate process to
prevent abuse. Veremail by Inetekk's privacy policy.

This submission may have occured through a remote service, submission
software or manually at the site indicated. Occasionally certain
individuals will try to abuse others with these services. This is why we
verify and also make available to you to add your email address to our
suppresion database (blacklist) if you feel you are being abused. If you
wish to be blocked, go to the end of this message and click on the
blocking link. If you do block your email address, our servers will
never accept your email address again.

</quote>

So far I have simply filed these emails - any good advice to offer?

I would certainly answer them (if they're legitimate) and tell them
that you are not responsible for the submissions. Ask them for
expanded header view copies of the submissions for evidence of spoofing.

If "Jacques" is engaged in copyright violation, and it kind of sounds
like this might be easy to prove if the original software authors take
measures to copyright their stuff when they release it, then getting
his site shut down by his web space provider should be easy. If he has
his own domain, then a complaint to his upstream provider would
definitely be in order.

Another thing I noticed is that he is laying claim to several awards
for "his" software:

http://www.zhangduo.com/freeware.html

It might be worth it to contact the sites indicated on that page to
see if the awards are legitimate. If they're not, then those sites can
get him shut down because they really do have big lawyers and lots of
money.

Here's proof of what "Jacques" is doing:

http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/UnknownDevicesRip/

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because I have him killfiled.

 

[John Fitzsimons]

Hi folks,

Susan tells me that the decision to add the page about HunterSoft on the
Pricelessware site was made by the group and so any further decisions should
be made by the group.

I have been flooded with the following email in various forms:

*********
Hello ******,

Please remove this page,

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

< snip >

Nothing stopping Susan from having a non-Pricelessware page (different
colours/layout etc.) with the exact same info linked from the
Pricelessware page.

Then that info is no longer on a "Pricelessware" page.

 

[Genna Reeney]

Looks to me like the fellow is mailbombing and-or harrassing you.
Can't you just look at his headers and file a complaint with his ISP
or upstream provider?

Yes, of course.

That's not the material point though.

I think this person is acting in a wholly unethical manner, but I also don't
think that's it's a precedent to set to get entangled with the disputes
between the group and ONE software author.

Sietse, I won't impose my view of it, though you are correct in discerning
that I won't change my mind on this. But this is a group effort and it
should stay so. No one person's opinion is more important than another's.

John F., I like your suggestion of placing the page on another site and
simply linking to it from there.

Cheers,
Genna

 

[Simon]

I think this person is acting in a wholly unethical manner, but I also
don't think that's it's a precedent to set to get entangled with the
disputes between the group and ONE software author.

John F., I like your suggestion of placing the page on another site
and simply linking to it from there.

</snip>

Genna

agreed, this group is certainly not the body to be fighting these fights.

This persons behaviour speaks volumes about both their ethics and
attitudes. It is further likely that their obvious capacity to continue to
behave in a childish manner could well be disruptive to the group (eg DoS
attacks, mail bombing, etc)

While John's suggestion of moving the page to another site has some merit,
the end result will only be that that site (and the owner) will become the
target of this person's ire (justified or not).

Perhaps we could make mention of both programs, with a caveat on the
offending app referring potential users to the group BEFORE
downloading/trying it. I have no doubt they would be promptly brought up
to date on the current consensus...

S

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=BBQ=AB?=]

I think this person is acting in a wholly unethical manner, but I
also don't think that's it's a precedent to set to get entangled
with the disputes between the group and ONE software author.

I'll stick by my previous support of having the page at
pricelessware.org. I don't see it as engaging him, rather just
providing info.

Had he not tried to meddle with the PL itself, I would agree that the
page should not be there. But he tried to trick Susan into replacing
a Pricelessware app with his own ripoff of it. AFAIK, this kind of
attempted deceit wrt the PL is unprecedented, and IMO it justifies
the page's inclusion at pricelessware.org.

OTOH, there are plenty of people here who are now on the lookout for
him and mention of his ripped off apps here on a.c.f. (Kudos again
to Sietse for being on the lookout for his ripoffs well before his
Usenet and e-mail deceptions were brought to light.) I don't think
he will ever be able to post here without immediate followups
pointing to the truth. It doesn't matter much to me whether the
truth about him is hosted at pricelessware.org or somewhere else, but
it would be nice if the page were available somewhere, so people
could point to it.

 

[John Corliss]

Yes, of course.
That's not the material point though.

Agreed, but I was only offering a suggestion as to how to deal with
the idiot's personal attack and threats. Since he uses

I think this person is acting in a wholly unethical manner, but I also don't
think that's it's a precedent to set to get entangled with the disputes
between the group and ONE software author. (clipped)

Again, agreed. However, there is a simple way to deal with this.
Instead of that page on the Pricelessware site, simply list both
programs, make a statement to the effect that "It has been suggested
that some software from Huntersoft is simply stolen and slightly
modified copies of other software" and include this link near the
listings:

http://www.halfdone.com/SOTW/UnknownDevicesRip/

The page would be an example of Huntersoft's (what an appropriate
name, since Jacques appears to "hunt" for other people's software to
rip off) tactics.

That way, people could make up their own minds.

--
Regards from John Corliss
alt.comp.freeware F.A.Q.:
http://www.ccountry.net/~jcorliss/F.A.Q./FrameSet1.html
Note that I can't see any of Andy Mabbett's troll posts
because I have him killfiled.

 

[Susan Bugher]

I think this person is acting in a wholly unethical manner, but I also don't
think that's it's a precedent to set to get entangled with the disputes
between the group and ONE software author.

I don't see the web page as precedent setting. ACF has a history of
acting to ensure the integrity of the ACF newsgroup and the
Pricelessware List. Abuse reports are filed against spammers,
Pricelessware voting irregularities are discussed, program and site
ripoffs are noted etc. etc. etc.

What *is* unprecedented is the attack that was made on the integrity of
the ACF newsgroup and the Pricelessware list by Huntersoft - by
deceptive posts in the newsgroup and by an attempt to redirect
Pricelessware links.

In addition, at a minimum two freeware author's have been adversely
effected by the actions of Huntersoft.

The web page is a measured response. It furnishes documented evidence
of Huntersoft's past actions - and it is easier to find than ACF posts
with the same information.

The Huntersoft page was uploaded about 6 weeks ago. It is fairly high on
the list of results from a Google search for Huntersoft.

*Jacques* is almost certainly monitoring this list. That means he has
been aware of the page for some time. The attack on the Pricelessware
site now may be an indication that the page is producing some effects
that *Jacques* doesn't like.

IMO the web page should stay.

Sietse, I won't impose my view of it, though you are correct in discerning
that I won't change my mind on this. But this is a group effort and it
should stay so. No one person's opinion is more important than another's.

I concur that it should be a group decision. Only a few people have
commented. Please make your own decision and *vote*. A simple keep this
page up or take it down would be helpful. The page is here:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

Susan

 

[Andy Mabbett]

If "Jacques" is engaged in copyright violation, and it kind of sounds
like this might be easy to prove if the original software authors take
measures to copyright their stuff when they release it, then getting
his site shut down by his web space provider should be easy.

You'd know about that, wouldn't you - you were told to remove a picture
from your site, by your ISP, after you downloaded it from another site,
modified it, and uploaded it to yours, in breach of the owners copyright
and moral tights.

Oh dear, what a hypocrite!

[snip Corliss' delusional sig]

 

[burnr]

I concur that it should be a group decision. Only a few people have
commented. Please make your own decision and *vote*. A simple keep
this page up or take it down would be helpful. The page is here:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

Susan

My vote would be to keep the page up, but I'm not the one who has to deal
with the aggravation of the mail bombing and honestly were it I, I'd
likely remove it to alleviate the attack. This person evidently is
without morales and it is hard to say what lengths this individual would
go to satisfy his self importance. I support your decision, either way.

 

[bambam]

IMO the web page should stay.

I agree.

 

[Bill Rowland]

I don't see the web page as precedent setting. ACF has a history of
acting to ensure the integrity of the ACF newsgroup and the
Pricelessware List. Abuse reports are filed against spammers,
Pricelessware voting irregularities are discussed, program and site
ripoffs are noted etc. etc. etc.

What *is* unprecedented is the attack that was made on the integrity of
the ACF newsgroup and the Pricelessware list by Huntersoft - by
deceptive posts in the newsgroup and by an attempt to redirect
Pricelessware links.

In addition, at a minimum two freeware author's have been adversely
effected by the actions of Huntersoft.

The web page is a measured response. It furnishes documented evidence
of Huntersoft's past actions - and it is easier to find than ACF posts
with the same information.

The Huntersoft page was uploaded about 6 weeks ago. It is fairly high on
the list of results from a Google search for Huntersoft.

*Jacques* is almost certainly monitoring this list. That means he has
been aware of the page for some time. The attack on the Pricelessware
site now may be an indication that the page is producing some effects
that *Jacques* doesn't like.

IMO the web page should stay.





I concur that it should be a group decision. Only a few people have
commented. Please make your own decision and *vote*. A simple keep this
page up or take it down would be helpful. The page is here:

http://www.pricelessware.org/2003/huntersoft.htm

Susan

Do you like Freeware?

If the answer is YES, then support this by keeping the above page there. Why?
Simple, really, he wins, if you don't. In six months or less, no one will
remember this "little incident" (stolen software). Then he will "borrow" someone
else's software and put it up as his own. What will you do then?

I don't like thieves, PERIOD!!!! I spent too many years fighting them, and I
know how they "win". They win by intimidation, threats, and bribery. You, either
crush their efforts or you let them win. There may be an ulterior motive, in
letting them win, but I really don't think there could be one with Freeware.

Most Freeware is made by authors who take THEIR time to do it, mostly,
because they are interested in it and want to do something for them selves. If
it helps someone else, then that's a side benefit. If, by doing nothing or
avoiding the issue, we allow this person to "rip off" someone else's hard work
then we will have NO ONE to complain to when that persons steals someone else's
software. Whether that software product is Freeware or Commercial, makes no
difference.

So make up your minds. Either you support this or we drop the whole thing,
and let him win. Either we keep Freeware "free" or we let someone else determine
what is Freeware and who it belongs too. There have been some heated
discussions about freeware in this NG over the past five or six years. Those of
you who participated in those "heated" discussions should have a better idea of
what it's all about than most of the people that have came here over that time
period. It would seem an awful waste of time and effort if that was all
pointless verbiage, i.e. wasted effort.

If, as a group, we let this happen then other authors will be hesitant to
write anything that is "Freeware". Because if someone steals it there will be no
help, from the "freeware community", then that author will not write it for the
"Freeware Community", and he/she will have no interest us, those of us who use
freeware. Then we might as well as close this NG down, in a few years there will
be nothing to talk about except old(er) freeware, because there is nothing new
being written for us, the Freeware Community.

Maybe I haven't said it exactly right, but I hope you understand what I'm
saying, i.e. keep the page and make everyone aware of HunterSoft, or let him win!

Ok, I'll get off the soap box now.

[NEXT!]

Bill Rowland
Atlantic Computer Systems
USN/IBM Retired

 

[Gary R. Schmidt]

Keep the page up.

Cheers,
Gary B-)